Churches Denounce Israel Violence Aganst Christians

[Coyote]

Keeping the list secret are ya?

List of what?

Those confirmed pedophilliacs you mentioned. Curious people want to know. Maybe my neighbor is listed.

Why would she need a list? A simple search will find lots of scandels involving pedophilia and religion - none are immune. In a sense it makes sense - religion offers situations in which potential pedophiles can exert authority and gain the trust of children and justify (to themselves) that what they are doing is "ok".

 

[Roudy]

HATE, it has resulted in human rights abuses in Palestine for 65 years now. Why do we hate? That is a deep question. But what we do not is justify human rights abuses by defending the hate that motivates it.

Do we know for a fact that the firing upon Palestinian(s) in this grove that you mention, was motivated by hate? If that is the case, feel free to serve-up a credible citation in support of that claim.

But I will concede that hate has been a factor over there for the past 65 years.

Beginning with the hate that the Palestinians, Lebanese-Arabs, Syrians, Iraqis, Saudis, Egyptians and Yemenese manifested against the Jews in attacking them in 1948.

They're still paying for their hatred and murderous genocidal intent and foolishness of 65 years ago, aren't they?

Behind hate is the desire of Jewish colonists to steal land and remove the indigenous peoples from Palestine. That has been going on for 65 years too. Israel is a story about ethnic cleansing and hate and defines the essence of who Israel is! And where do you get the idea hate has to be proven? That is not an element of war crimes.

"Indigenous" Arab invaders from neighboring lands led by Egyptian born and raised terrorist Arafat who decided to call themselves Palestinians as of 1967. Ha ha ha

"“Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?”
“We did not particularly mind Jordanian rule. The teaching of the destruction of Israel was a definite part of the curriculum, but we considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of the sudden we were Palestinians - they removed the star from the Jordanian flag and all at once we had a Palestinian flag”.
“When I finally realized the lies and myths I was taught, it is my duty as a righteous person to speak out”.

This declaration by a true "Palestinian" should have some significance for a sincerely neutral observer. Indeed, there is no such a thing like a Palestinian people, or a Palestinian culture, or a Palestinian language, or a Palestinian history. There has never been any Palestinian state, neither any Palestinian archaeological find nor coinage. The present-day "Palestinians" are an Arab people, with Arab culture, Arabic language and Arab history. They have their own Arab states from where they came into the Land of Israel about one century ago to contrast the Jewish immigration. That is the historical truth. They were Jordanians (another recent British invention, as there has never been any people known as "Jordanians"), and after the Six-Day War in which Israel utterly defeated the coalition of nine Arab states and took legitimate possession of Judea and Samaria, the Arab dwellers in those regions underwent a kind of anthropological miracle and discovered that they were Palestinians - something they did not know the day before. Of course, these people having a new identity had to build themselves a history, namely, had to steal some others' history, and the only way that the victims of the theft would not complain is if those victims do no longer exist. Therefore, the Palestinian leaders claimed two contradictory lineages from ancient peoples that inhabited in the Land of Israel: the Canaanites and the Philistines. Let us consider both of them before going on with the Palestinian issue.

 

[irosie91]

[
I think it's easy to call it hate when in reality some of these things are much more complex then that. I suspect the actions had more to do with nationalism, the breaking up of regions and the forced creation of new nations. If you are looking at bad behavior - Israel was no innocent in the activities there.

If you are looking at bad behavior-----there were no innocent players
in world war II either-----why even bother to post so obvious a reality ?

You are preaching to the choir-----no matter what you say----Isa-respecters
will still celebrate the sltting of the throats of infants in the name of isa. just
as Isabella celebrated the HOLY AUTO DE FE and non isa respecters will
see war in general as a giant atrocity.

me; "how did it go in India----in the 1940s?"

hindu: "terrible---all kinds of people killed ----thousands
and thousands----all families losing relatives --it was terrible
for everyone"

isa-respecter "terrible---the hindus killed us----millions of us----
whole trainloads of people trying to escape---murdered
by the Hindus. SOMEDAY WE WILL DRINK THEIR BLOOD"



thus went my early lessons in the history of the indian sub-
continent

 

[Kondor3]

HATE, it has resulted in human rights abuses in Palestine for 65 years now. Why do we hate? That is a deep question. But what we do not is justify human rights abuses by defending the hate that motivates it.

Do we know for a fact that the firing upon Palestinian(s) in this grove that you mention, was motivated by hate? If that is the case, feel free to serve-up a credible citation in support of that claim.

But I will concede that hate has been a factor over there for the past 65 years.

Beginning with the hate that the Palestinians, Lebanese-Arabs, Syrians, Iraqis, Saudis, Egyptians and Yemenese manifested against the Jews in attacking them in 1948.

They're still paying for their hatred and murderous genocidal intent and foolishness of 65 years ago, aren't they?

I think it's easy to call it hate when in reality some of these things are much more complex then that. I suspect the actions had more to do with nationalism, the breaking up of regions and the forced creation of new nations. If you are looking at bad behavior - Israel was no innocent in the activities there.

I have no illusions that Israel is a wide-eyed innocent, Coyote, and that includes the period of 3-4 years prior to and during and after the 1948 Israeli War of Independence.

But, at the risk of indulging in automatic gainsay, I, in turn, perceive that, although it might be 'easy to call it hate', that it is also 'entirely accurate and truthful to call it hate'.

Mind you, there are several 'layers' to that hatred:

...nation-birthing and land-juggling by the UN

...the shockingly new and unwelcome phenomenon of having powerful Dhimmis for neighbors

...some Arabs pushed off their land (in addition to the large numbers who simply abandoned it in hopes of an Arab-promised Victorious Return in 1948)

...religious and ethnic and racial differences

...a microscopic loss of territory for the Ummah or the Pan-Arab Nation that it blew all out of proportion

...ill will resulting from decades of occasional sniping or skirmishing between Arabs and Jews in Palestine prior to 1948

..and deep and visceral frustration because they could not dislodge the Jews from their towns and kibbutzes and because they got their collective (several Arab countries) asses kicked good-and-proper in 1948 by the new pipsqueak nation when the Arabs invaded despite the UN and despite the amazingly long odds against the new and tiny little State.

Israel and the Arabs - the France-vs-Germany of our times - with the roles interchangeable at various points along the timeline... and one of them much tinier than the other...

Complete with a sense of Revanche on the Arab side.

I'm no expert nor even particularly well-read on the subject but I have a servicable (and admittedly highly biased) layman's understanding of conditions leading up to the creation of the State of Israel and the spectrum of factors contributing to the Arab angst directed against Israel.

I stand by my labeling of Arab motivation as 'hatred' - it's a legitimate accusation, to my way of thinking.

One need look no further than the Arab propaganda of the period or the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem to find copious evidence that such hatred was not only alive and well but also held a position of primacy in the minds of the Arabs of the period - and forming the basis or foundation for the hybrid motivations and propaganda that we see in our own times.

Or so it seems to this casual observer...

 

[Coyote]

Do we know for a fact that the firing upon Palestinian(s) in this grove that you mention, was motivated by hate? If that is the case, feel free to serve-up a credible citation in support of that claim.

But I will concede that hate has been a factor over there for the past 65 years.

Beginning with the hate that the Palestinians, Lebanese-Arabs, Syrians, Iraqis, Saudis, Egyptians and Yemenese manifested against the Jews in attacking them in 1948.

They're still paying for their hatred and murderous genocidal intent and foolishness of 65 years ago, aren't they?

I think it's easy to call it hate when in reality some of these things are much more complex then that. I suspect the actions had more to do with nationalism, the breaking up of regions and the forced creation of new nations. If you are looking at bad behavior - Israel was no innocent in the activities there.

I have no illusions that Israel is a wide-eyed innocent, Coyote, and that includes the period of 3-4 years prior to and during and after the 1948 Israeli War of Independence.

But, at the risk of indulging in automatic gainsay, I, in turn, perceive that, although it might be 'easy to call it hate', that it is also 'entirely accurate and truthful to call it hate'.

Mind you, there are several 'layers' to that hatred:

...nation-birthing and land-juggling by the UN

...the shockingly new and unwelcome phenomenon of having powerful Dhimmis for neighbors

...some Arabs pushed off their land (in addition to the large numbers who simply abandoned it in hopes of an Arab-promised Victorious Return in 1948)

...religious and ethnic and racial differences

...a microscopic loss of territory for the Ummah or the Pan-Arab Nation that it blew all out of proportion

...ill will resulting from decades of occasional sniping or skirmishing between Arabs and Jews in Palestine prior to 1948

..and deep and visceral frustration because they could not dislodge the Jews from their towns and kibbutzes and because they got their collective (several Arab countries) asses kicked good-and-proper in 1948 by the new pipsqueak nation when the Arabs invaded despite the UN and despite the amazingly long odds against the new and tiny little State.

Israel and the Arabs - the France-vs-Germany of our times - with the roles interchangeable at various points along the timeline... and one of them much tinier than the other...

Complete with a sense of Revanche on the Arab side.

I'm no expert nor even particularly well-read on the subject but I have a servicable (and admittedly highly biased) layman's understanding of conditions leading up to the creation of the State of Israel and the spectrum of factors contributing to the Arab angst directed against Israel.

I stand by my labeling of Arab motivation as 'hatred' - it's a legitimate accusation, to my way of thinking.

One need look no further than the Arab propaganda of the period or the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem to find copious evidence that such hatred was not only alive and well but also held a position of primacy in the minds of the Arabs of the period - and forming the basis or foundation for the hybrid motivations and propaganda that we see in our own times.

Or so it seems to this casual observer...

I agree, and also - in large part that it is a many-layered and complicated situation as you point out. What I tend to disagree with is that most seem to label it as simple hate based upon religion or ethnicity, when it isn't.

 

[Kondor3]

HATE, it has resulted in human rights abuses in Palestine for 65 years now. Why do we hate? That is a deep question. But what we do not is justify human rights abuses by defending the hate that motivates it.

Do we know for a fact that the firing upon Palestinian(s) in this grove that you mention, was motivated by hate? If that is the case, feel free to serve-up a credible citation in support of that claim.

But I will concede that hate has been a factor over there for the past 65 years.

Beginning with the hate that the Palestinians, Lebanese-Arabs, Syrians, Iraqis, Saudis, Egyptians and Yemenese manifested against the Jews in attacking them in 1948.

They're still paying for their hatred and murderous genocidal intent and foolishness of 65 years ago, aren't they?

Behind hate is the desire of Jewish colonists to steal land and remove the indigenous peoples from Palestine. That has been going on for 65 years too. Israel is a story about ethnic cleansing and hate and defines the essence of who Israel is! And where do you get the idea hate has to be proven? That is not an element of war crimes.

Where do I get the idea that hate has to be proven?

From my primitive layman's grasp of the basics of simple logic and proof-rendering and criminal court proceedings and evidence-gathering and evaluation.

You serve up a claim that the shooting in the grove was motivated by hatred.

You are challenged to produce some shred of credible evidence that hatred was the motivating factor behind the shooting.

You counter - twice - with nothingness - with empty air - with disconnected generalities that do nothing to reinforce your original and specific claim, and which you hope will serve to ward-off subsequent Findings of Insufficiency or that your counterpart will forget the original request for solid evidence...

Epic fail.

Until you can serve-up credible evidence in support of your claim, your lightweight fluff accusations of hatred as the underlying motive behind the grove shootings rings hollow and must be ignored as an unfounded bit of biased personal opinion.

Better luck next time with that.

 

[Coyote]

[
I think it's easy to call it hate when in reality some of these things are much more complex then that. I suspect the actions had more to do with nationalism, the breaking up of regions and the forced creation of new nations. If you are looking at bad behavior - Israel was no innocent in the activities there.

If you are looking at bad behavior-----there were no innocent players
in world war II either-----why even bother to post so obvious a reality ?

Because your posting history indicates that that obvious reality isn't so "obvious".

You are preaching to the choir-----no matter what you say----Isa-respecters
will still celebrate the sltting of the throats of infants in the name of isa. just
as Isabella celebrated the HOLY AUTO DE FE and non isa respecters will
see war in general as a giant atrocity.

me; "how did it go in India----in the 1940s?"

hindu: "terrible---all kinds of people killed ----thousands
and thousands----all families losing relatives --it was terrible
for everyone"

isa-respecter "terrible---the hindus killed us----millions of us----
whole trainloads of people trying to escape---murdered
by the Hindus. SOMEDAY WE WILL DRINK THEIR BLOOD"



thus went my early lessons in the history of the indian sub-
continent

Lots of people get killed by lots of religions. You just focus on one to the exclusion of a multitude of other religious bloodbaths and your example of the partisian of India is a perfect example of where you Hindu's, Muslims, Sikh's all fleeing and massacring each other. There stories of trains full of dead Muslim men, women and children arriving in Pakistan and dead Hindu's arriving in India: The Tragedy of Partition

When Radcliffe's line was announced, the situation in the Punjab disintegrated into anarchy almost instantly. Literally milllions of Muslims moved west to Pakistan and Hindus and Sikhs moved into India. No one knows who first started the communal violence, but roving bands of Hindus on one hand and Muslims on the other started campaigns of mayhem on fleeing refugees from the other group. As word of the violence spread, each side sought to exact revenge on the other for the savagery, matching blow for blow. Finally, the carnage ended only when the last of the refugees were safely on their own side, or dead. Even today, their are almost no Hindus in Pakistani Punjab and few Muslims in Indian Punjab.

Even now there is still Hindu violence upon Muslims and Muslim violence upon Hindu's. Vengeance is alive in both groups.

 

[irosie91]

coyote---you have a habit of repeaing my posts ----and kinda claiming
the notions expressed therein as your own--------AND THEN---claiming
that I am the person MISSING something -------you should read more
carefully

 

[Coyote]

coyote---you have a habit of repeaing my posts ----and kinda claiming
the notions expressed therein as your own--------AND THEN---claiming
that I am the person MISSING something -------you should read more
carefully

Accept for the last line: Even now there is still Hindu violence upon Muslims and Muslim violence upon Hindu's. Vengeance is alive in both groups.

 

[irosie91]

coyote---you have a habit of repeaing my posts ----and kinda claiming
the notions expressed therein as your own--------AND THEN---claiming
that I am the person MISSING something -------you should read more
carefully

Accept for the last line: Even now there is still Hindu violence upon Muslims and Muslim violence upon Hindu's. Vengeance is alive in both groups.

I do not remember denying that fact ----In fact I implied it. My post was
about that which I have found CONSISTENT over the course of decades in
VERSIONS of history ------Hindu vs Muslim

 

[irosie91]

Do we know for a fact that the firing upon Palestinian(s) in this grove that you mention, was motivated by hate? If that is the case, feel free to serve-up a credible citation in support of that claim.

But I will concede that hate has been a factor over there for the past 65 years.

Beginning with the hate that the Palestinians, Lebanese-Arabs, Syrians, Iraqis, Saudis, Egyptians and Yemenese manifested against the Jews in attacking them in 1948.

They're still paying for their hatred and murderous genocidal intent and foolishness of 65 years ago, aren't they?

Behind hate is the desire of Jewish colonists to steal land and remove the indigenous peoples from Palestine. That has been going on for 65 years too. Israel is a story about ethnic cleansing and hate and defines the essence of who Israel is! And where do you get
the idea hate has to be proven? That is not an element of war crimes.

Where do I get the idea that hate has to be proven?

From my primitive layman's grasp of the basics of simple logic and proof-rendering and criminal court proceedings and evidence-gathering and evaluation.

You serve up a claim that the shooting in the grove was motivated by hatred.

You are challenged to produce some shred of credible evidence that hatred was the motivating factor behind the shooting.

You counter - twice - with nothingness - with empty air - with disconnected generalities that
do nothing to reinforce your original and specific claim, and which you hope will serve to ward-off subsequent Findings of Insufficiency or that your counterpart will forget the original request for solid evidence...

Epic fail.

Until you can serve-up credible evidence in support of your claim, your lightweight fluff accusations of hatred as the underlying motive behind the grove shootings rings hollow and must be ignored as an unfounded bit of biased personal opinion.

Better luck next time with that.

Leave sherri alone-----the concept of MENS REA ---as a NECESSARY component
in a charge of murder is actually BIBLICAL ------ she never read the bible
and somehow missed the fact that it was included in USA jurisprudence
by the founding fathers. It is not a component of shariah law -----in fact
in the time of ancient Israel/judea-----in the world of that time---it was
a kind of innovation------a break from the laws of mesopotamia

 

[Coyote]

coyote---you have a habit of repeaing my posts ----and kinda claiming
the notions expressed therein as your own--------AND THEN---claiming
that I am the person MISSING something -------you should read more
carefully

Accept for the last line: Even now there is still Hindu violence upon Muslims and Muslim violence upon Hindu's. Vengeance is alive in both groups.

I do not remember denying that fact ----In fact I implied it. My post was
about that which I have found CONSISTENT over the course of decades in
VERSIONS of history ------Hindu vs Muslim

Then I misunderstood your post

 

[Roudy]

coyote---you have a habit of repeaing my posts ----and kinda claiming
the notions expressed therein as your own--------AND THEN---claiming
that I am the person MISSING something -------you should read more
carefully

Accept for the last line: Even now there is still Hindu violence upon Muslims and Muslim violence upon Hindu's. Vengeance is alive in both groups.

But it's the Muslims that invaded the region, and committed genocide upon the Hindus, until they "submitted to Islam". And you won't find the Hindus committing acts of terror such as the bombings in Mumbai that Muslims regularly do.

 

[Mom]

coyote---you have a habit of repeaing my posts ----and kinda claiming
the notions expressed therein as your own--------AND THEN---claiming
that I am the person MISSING something -------you should read more
carefully

Accept for the last line: Even now there is still Hindu violence upon Muslims and Muslim violence upon Hindu's. Vengeance is alive in both groups.

But it's the Muslims that invaded the region, and committed genocide upon the Hindus, until they "submitted to Islam". And you won't find the Hindus committing acts of terror such as the bombings in Mumbai that Muslims regularly do.

Look up "saffron terror" (I don't have enough posts to link). Hindus do plenty of terrorism.

 

[irosie91]

Accept for the last line: Even now there is still Hindu violence upon Muslims and Muslim violence upon Hindu's. Vengeance is alive in both groups.

But it's the Muslims that invaded the region, and committed genocide upon the Hindus, until they "submitted to Islam". And you won't find the Hindus committing acts of terror such as the bombings in Mumbai that Muslims regularly do.

Look up "saffron terror" (I don't have enough posts to link). Hindus do plenty of terrorism.

I have never heard of a case of HINDUS crossing into pakistan to murder
muslims-----maybe you can find an exception. I have heard of hindus
engaged in terrorism where they lived----especially ethnic TAMILS Sikhs
do it sometimes ---sorta local stuff ------when it comes to massive genocides---
muslims take the cake

 

[irosie91]

Did anyone come up with a BODY COUNT to justify
sherri's Thread title? How many christians did Israel
kill during this past easter season?

 

[Coyote]

Did anyone come up with a BODY COUNT to justify
sherri's Thread title? How many christians did Israel
kill during this past easter season?

No. We have not even come up with a smack or pulled hair yet.

 

[irosie91]

Did anyone come up with a BODY COUNT to justify
sherri's Thread title? How many christians did Israel
kill during this past easter season?

No. We have not even come up with a smack or pulled hair yet.

Keep trying

 

[Coyote]

Did anyone come up with a BODY COUNT to justify
sherri's Thread title? How many christians did Israel
kill during this past easter season?

No. We have not even come up with a smack or pulled hair yet.

Keep trying

There might be nya nya nya....working on it.

 

[Coyote]

Accept for the last line: Even now there is still Hindu violence upon Muslims and Muslim violence upon Hindu's. Vengeance is alive in both groups.

But it's the Muslims that invaded the region, and committed genocide upon the Hindus, until they "submitted to Islam". And you won't find the Hindus committing acts of terror such as the bombings in Mumbai that Muslims regularly do.

Look up "saffron terror" (I don't have enough posts to link). Hindus do plenty of terrorism.

Yup: Saffron terror - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia