Class War Illustrated

[Cuyo]

You're a WELFARE Brat, aren't you? Live off the dole do you?

Thank you for deducting reputation from this loser.

Translation: "DAMN! I've been FOUND OUT"

You really show your age with shit like this, kiddo.

 

[skookerasbil]

He's pointing out (correctly) the direction our discourse is being pushed. Rather than so immediately calling it 'crap,' you should take an honest look at it and revisit who the dopes getting your votes are really advocating for. It's actually quite obvious - Not you.

As one who understands economics, I am a staunch advocate for incentive to investment. Tax incentives for the wealthy are one of the smartest things any economy can ever do.

"The Republican proposal, HR1, actually proposes cuts in the Head Start program that would mean:

* 218,000 children from low income families will lose Head Start/Early Head Start services;
* 16,000 Head Start/Early Head Start classrooms will close;
* 55,000 Head Start/Early Head Start teachers and staff will lose their jobs;
* 150,000 low-income families and their children will lose assistance in paying for child care.

They say they need to make these cuts because we must "tighten our belts" to cut spending because "America is broke."

But at the very same time they voted to cut Head Start, the Republicans voted to continue $4 billion worth of subsidies to Big Oil."

Earth to Boner...Come In!​

​

you lost the purse strings in November s0n.........wont have 'em back for ten years too!!!

 

[AVG-JOE]

there are an awful lot of communities that have all volunteer fire depts., mine does. They get very little from the town via taxes and almost their entire budget comes from fund raisers.

There has not been a death from a house fire in my town in over 10 years at least. So I'd say that's pretty efficient.

Granted. How do you reckon that would work for Chicago, NYC or Seattle? I imagine condos burning to the ground.

It could work quite well considering that the population density is much greater there would be a larger pool from which to recruit volunteers for any given area.

I don't know, Man. I've trained as a volunteer FF and it's a commitment. The guys and gals that do it full time learn stuff that saves lives. If my community went volunteer, I'd think about that when I used a space heater or drove through town at closing time.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Personally, I think that if one makes his own well being and then that of his family their sole concern then a society as a whole will prosper.

Making one less able to care for himself and his family by taking his earnings away so as to support another is counterproductive.

I contribute to the overall health of a community by not being and not allowing anyone in my family to be a burden on other members of said community.

Civic responsibility begins and ends with personal responsibility.

That's all well and good and I applaud your sense of civic and personal responsibility. I also agree wholeheartedly that supporting professional sun-tanners with tax-payer dollars sends the wrong message - the questions in this thread are two: Are taxes unfairly shouldered by the middle class? and Do We, The Peeps want to take up a collection to keep the bums and beggars off the streets for the tourists?

Who qualifies as a bum or a beggar is a question worthy of its own thread.

I for one do not live in an area frequented by tourists nor do we have any bums on the streets because I live in a semi rural area. So there is absolutely no need for me to pay taxes to remedy that problem because bums on the street is purely a local issue and not one for the federal government.

That's cool. I'm pretty rural myself and I work in a secure building. I can drive past the bums and beggars with the windows up and the AC on. Fuck the cities.

 

[Cuyo]

so, whats this ideological argument you want to purse, I told you what my yardstick was. I assume you don't want to pursue that ...so?

uhh... Permalink me the post you want a response to? We're kinda all over the place at this point

that cause you're a rodent......

you mentioned it first I think here...

http://www.usmessageboard.com/3417209-post87.html

OK. Then it's important to lay the proper groundwork. My first question: Poverty is rising and SOL for average people is falling, that is a fact. Rich are getting richer and the chasm between haves and have nots is increasing, that's a fact. Do you think the government (or as I like to call it, "We") should do anything about it?

If the answer is NO:
Is this based strictly on principle, or do you believe hands-off is the best outcome for the country?

If the answer is that you believe it's the best outcome:
What if, hypothetically, it could be proven that it is not? Would you still say hands-off strictly on principle? What if it could herald the end of the Republic?

 

[AVG-JOE]

Morality has everything to do with the question you posed. Obligations are either moral or ethical- and ethical matters are often rooted in morality.

And it is not at all a loaded question.

Yes, it is. You assume that person B is making no effort to better his or her condition. You assume they simply want to sit back and have someone else pay their way. Most who advocate a social safety net would exclude such persons. The proposition is aiding those who are disadvantaged- the sick, children, the elderly, those without the resources they might need to improve their condition. Your question intentionally misrepresented the matter- it was classic reactionary bourgeois rhetoric.

I must ask- what constitution are you referring to? Which version do you agree with? Before any of the amendments? After the Tenth but before the 11th? The current form? Some other form you would have, with some amendment(s) you would see put in place? What interpretation or understanding of the text? Literal? If so, then it was never ratified, since the States didn't all vote on identical texts. 'Original Intent'? if so, how do you determine that- and why should we be ruled by corpses? Your own understanding of what you believe it means? Your understanding of what someone else thought it meant? Your appeal to this bit of parchment raises more questions than it answers.

You also seem ignorant of basic matters of philosophy. The Constitution was written by Liberals.

Those Liberals to whom you refer were strong advocates of gun rights, personal property rights, Christianity, States Rights, Weak Federal Government, restrained ability of the Federal Government to tax and provided for no social safety nets at the Federal level of any type.

Please square this with the definition of Liberalism as it exists today.

The Liberal media continues to brain-wash the youth because real liberals like their competition 'confused'.

 

[The T]

uhh... Permalink me the post you want a response to? We're kinda all over the place at this point

that cause you're a rodent......

you mentioned it first I think here...

http://www.usmessageboard.com/3417209-post87.html

OK. Then it's important to lay the proper groundwork. My first question: Poverty is rising and SOL for average people is falling, that is a fact. Rich are getting richer and the chasm between haves and have nots is increasing, that's a fact. Do you think the government (or as I like to call it, "We") should do anything about it?

If the answer is NO:
Is this based strictly on principle, or do you believe hands-off is the best outcome for the country?

If the answer is that you believe it's the best outcome:
What if, hypothetically, it could be proven that it is not? Would you still say hands-off strictly on principle? What if it could herald the end of the Republic?

IF the Rich get richer and the POOR get poorer...somewhere...something's gotta give? And you act as if the Economy is a zero Sum Game...

And the Economy isn't. people can start their own businesses...

Sorry...but some of refuse to subscribe to your class warfare shit...and in fact? Encourage an expansion of the market...

And we don't subscribe to your doomsday tale of the END of this Republic.

 

[Cuyo]

that cause you're a rodent......

you mentioned it first I think here...

http://www.usmessageboard.com/3417209-post87.html

OK. Then it's important to lay the proper groundwork. My first question: Poverty is rising and SOL for average people is falling, that is a fact. Rich are getting richer and the chasm between haves and have nots is increasing, that's a fact. Do you think the government (or as I like to call it, "We") should do anything about it?

If the answer is NO:
Is this based strictly on principle, or do you believe hands-off is the best outcome for the country?

If the answer is that you believe it's the best outcome:
What if, hypothetically, it could be proven that it is not? Would you still say hands-off strictly on principle? What if it could herald the end of the Republic?

IF the Rich get richer and the POOR get poorer...somewhere...something's gotta give? And you act as if the Economy is a zero Sum Game...

And the Economy isn't. people can start their own businesses...

Sorry...but some of refuse to subscribe to your class warfare shit...and in fact? Encourage an expansion of the market...

And we don't subscribe to your doomsday tale of the END of this Republic.

I didn't prophesize anything. We're talking in hypotheticals. If you don't want to participate, please, by all means don't. I promise you won't hurt my feelings.

 

[The T]

OK. Then it's important to lay the proper groundwork. My first question: Poverty is rising and SOL for average people is falling, that is a fact. Rich are getting richer and the chasm between haves and have nots is increasing, that's a fact. Do you think the government (or as I like to call it, "We") should do anything about it?

If the answer is NO:
Is this based strictly on principle, or do you believe hands-off is the best outcome for the country?

If the answer is that you believe it's the best outcome:
What if, hypothetically, it could be proven that it is not? Would you still say hands-off strictly on principle? What if it could herald the end of the Republic?

IF the Rich get richer and the POOR get poorer...somewhere...something's gotta give? And you act as if the Economy is a zero Sum Game...

And the Economy isn't. people can start their own businesses...

Sorry...but some of refuse to subscribe to your class warfare shit...and in fact? Encourage an expansion of the market...

And we don't subscribe to your doomsday tale of the END of this Republic.

I didn't prophesize anything. We're talking in hypotheticals. If you don't want to participate, please, by all means don't. I promise you won't hurt my feelings.

Hypotheticals are for losers that cannot accept reality.(And Live in a GRAY ZONE all of their lives).

 

[Toro]

Of course, were spending to ever exceed GDP, then even a 100% tax (assuming gdp remained unchanged) would not be sufficient to balance the budget.

How can government spending exceed GDP?

the same way my spending can exceed my income

It doesn't work that way.

National income approximates national spending. It must. The national accounting function

GDP = C + I + G + NX

means that if G > GDP, then C, I and/or NX must be negative. Net exports - NX - is often negative but it is relatively small and inconsequential. Thus, for government spending to be greater than GDP, either consumption or business spending must be negative, a practical impossibility. I doubt it happened even in communist societies.

If a government's spending exceeds its income, that's the budget deficit.

 

[kaz]

Wealth has been continually redistributed to the top 2% over the last few decades and yet it is "class warfare" to insist that the wealthy help pay for the financial mess that greed created. Why must the mess, that the wealthy created, be paid for by the poor and middle class?

In what way has any money been redistributed to the top 2%?

Among others...

It's responses like this that really show how stupid liberals really are. We are redistributing wealth to the rich by taxing them at higher rates then everyone else but not high enough rates for you Marxists. All the money is the people's money, comrade, got it.

 

[mnbasketball]

It's responses like this that really show how stupid liberals really are. We are redistributing wealth to the rich by taxing them at higher rates then everyone else but not high enough rates for you Marxists. All the money is the people's money, comrade, got it.

There's a lot more than income taxes in this country dickweed. And the rich can hide much of their money from taxes which the average guy can't.

You cut the pay of middle class jobs like teachers and others yet when it comes come to the top jobs in the country are getting more and more everyday.


The Koch Bros just made 8 billion in one year, 5 times the budget shortfall in Wisconsin as you guys like to put it. they have been able to obtain 44BILLION dollars off the Wisconsin people and you want me to feel sorry for the rich, NICE FUCKING TRY DICKWEED, they have it so bad here in the good old USA.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Thank you.

Just to help Me ensure I understand your post-

say that 104-158k bracket, you note capital gains, does that mean that at 150K you cash in a 10K investment and pay 31% on the whole, or is it a marginal tax framework as added to income?

Trajan, I like you a lot, but you're starting to irritate me.

Capital gains will still be taxed on the high water mark under the Cuyo plan, same as they are now. The only difference is the table to which they're subject.

edit: Are you just trying to irritate me and laughing at me through that distant computer screen? You bastard!

Do we have to keep all the complicated bullshit?!?

7 + 7 on 3

7% General Sales Tax.
+
7% on Income in excess of $3 Million.

No corporate income tax, no capital gains, no tax return until you earn $3,000,001.00

Buy a Ferrari, pay Ferrari tax - buy a 3-year old Hyundai, pay less.

 

[The T]

It's responses like this that really show how stupid liberals really are. We are redistributing wealth to the rich by taxing them at higher rates then everyone else but not high enough rates for you Marxists. All the money is the people's money, comrade, got it.

There's a lot more than income taxes in this country dickweed. And the rich can hide much of their money from taxes which the average guy can't.

You cut the pay of middle class jobs like teachers and others yet when it comes come to the top jobs in the country are getting more and more everyday.


The Koch Bros just made 8 billion in one year, 5 times the budget shortfall in Wisconsin as you guys like to put it. they have been able to obtain 44BILLION dollars off the Wisconsin people and you want me to feel sorry for the rich, NICE FUCKING TRY DICKWEED, they have it so bad here in the good old USA.

Redistributing WEALTH to the rich? Really? Koch whom? Soros Whom?

Son? Lazy, Stupid and Statist will get you NOWHERE in life.

 

[mnbasketball]

so does this mean we get rid of state tax and state sales tax and taxes on your home and taxes on gasoline, ect.
I suppose we also get rid of corp taxes also? all my 401k investment will now be tax free?

 

[Cuyo]

Thank you.

Just to help Me ensure I understand your post-

say that 104-158k bracket, you note capital gains, does that mean that at 150K you cash in a 10K investment and pay 31% on the whole, or is it a marginal tax framework as added to income?

Trajan, I like you a lot, but you're starting to irritate me.

Capital gains will still be taxed on the high water mark under the Cuyo plan, same as they are now. The only difference is the table to which they're subject.

edit: Are you just trying to irritate me and laughing at me through that distant computer screen? You bastard!

Do we have to keep all the complicated bullshit?!?

7 + 7 on 3

7% General Sales Tax.
+
7% on Income in excess of $3 Million.

No corporate income tax, no capital gains, no tax return until you earn $3,000,001.00

Buy a Ferrari, pay Ferrari tax - buy a 3-year old Hyundai, pay less.

Do you have a hotkey for the AVG-JOE plan?

It's well intentioned, but it ain't enough money to run this place - Plus it will turn out to be far more complicated than you think.

 

[The T]

so does this mean we get rid of state tax and state sales tax and taxes on your home and taxes on gasoline, ect.
I suppose we also get rid of corp taxes also? all my 401k investment will now be tax free?

Eh?

You're becoming unhinged and unthinking. Put away your mommy's keyboard and walk away.

 

[mnbasketball]

answer the question dickweed, can't you do it or do you know it won't work or happen.

 

[The T]

answer the question dickweed, can't you do it or do you know it won't work or happen.

Turn your pretty head and WALK AWAY...

 

[mnbasketball]

truth is all you do is suck the big one every day you can't think.