CO2 Experiments posted here

[Crick]

Embryonic exposure to o,p′-DDT causes eggshell thinning and altered shell gland carbonic anhydrase expression in the domestic hen

DDT-Induced Inhibition of Avian Shell Gland Carbonic Anhydrase: A Mechanism for Thin Eggshells

DDE Induced Eggshell Thinning in the American Kestrel: A Comparison of the Field Situation and Laboratory Reslts

DDE-induced eggshell thinning in birds: Effects of p,p′-DDE on the calcium and prostaglandin metabolism of the eggshell gland

Eggshell thinning as influenced by method of DDT exposure

p,p'-DDT: Effect on Calcium Metabolism and Concentration of Estradiol in the Blood


And there's a great deal more where these came from:


Google: Scholarly articles on DDT and Eggshell Thinning


And none that I saw gave your contentions the slightest support.

 

[Crick]

I bet the scientists involved in all of these studies made up these data and lied because they knew there was a great deal of grant money out there on any topic that would denigrate and discredit the chemical industry, the former captains of American capitalism. Right?

 

[westwall]

SSDD, you're plagiarizing by not giving your source. You're lying by pretending you read those studies, being you haven't looked at a single one. You don't even know if they exist. You just did a cut-and-paste of a load of crap from a blog. If we looked it all up, we'd find much of it is misrepresented by your liars' cult, and the rest is a big ol' cherrypicking fallacy. The world thinks your science is cult nonsense, because it is cult nonsense. And in response ... you'll tell us IT'S A CONSPIRACY!

Turn your brain on, and lose your patronizing racist assumption that tropical nations are just stupid brown people who are being duped by white liberals. Brown people do science too, they know that your science is crap and would kill millions of their citizens, so they reject it.

That's why I have to oppose you. Your crank opinions are not harmless. They would kill millions, ravage the economy, ravage the ecology. Any decent human being is morally obligated to point out your depravity and oppose the genocide you'd initiate. With the best of intentions, of course, but that doesn't make your victims any less dead.

He gave the source moron. "Nucular (sic) Watch Officer"....what a joke...

 

[Kosh]

Embryonic exposure to o,p′-DDT causes eggshell thinning and altered shell gland carbonic anhydrase expression in the domestic hen

DDT-Induced Inhibition of Avian Shell Gland Carbonic Anhydrase: A Mechanism for Thin Eggshells

DDE Induced Eggshell Thinning in the American Kestrel: A Comparison of the Field Situation and Laboratory Reslts

DDE-induced eggshell thinning in birds: Effects of p,p′-DDE on the calcium and prostaglandin metabolism of the eggshell gland

Eggshell thinning as influenced by method of DDT exposure

p,p'-DDT: Effect on Calcium Metabolism and Concentration of Estradiol in the Blood


And there's a great deal more where these came from:


Google: Scholarly articles on DDT and Eggshell Thinning


And none that I saw gave your contentions the slightest support.

Google is definitely not your friend.

Do you even read the links you post or just read titles that fit certain keywords that fits your AGW cult narrative?

 

[SSDD]

Embryonic exposure to o,p′-DDT causes eggshell thinning and altered shell gland carbonic anhydrase expression in the domestic hen

DDT-Induced Inhibition of Avian Shell Gland Carbonic Anhydrase: A Mechanism for Thin Eggshells

DDE Induced Eggshell Thinning in the American Kestrel: A Comparison of the Field Situation and Laboratory Reslts

DDE-induced eggshell thinning in birds: Effects of p,p′-DDE on the calcium and prostaglandin metabolism of the eggshell gland

Eggshell thinning as influenced by method of DDT exposure

p,p'-DDT: Effect on Calcium Metabolism and Concentration of Estradiol in the Blood


And there's a great deal more where these came from:


Google: Scholarly articles on DDT and Eggshell Thinning


And none that I saw gave your contentions the slightest support.

Many experiments on caged-birds demonstrate that DDT and its metabolites (DDD and DDE) do not cause serious egg shell thinning, even at levels many hundreds of times greater than wild birds would ever accumulate. [Cecil, HC et al. 1971. Poultry Science 50: 656-659 (No effects of DDT or DDE, if adequate calcium is in diet); Chang, ES & ELR Stokstad. 1975. Poultry Science 54: 3-10 1975. (No effects of DDT on shells); Edwards, JG. 1971. Chem Eng News p. 6 & 59 (August 16, 1971) (Summary of egg shell- thinning and refutations presented revealing all data); Hazeltine, WE. 1974. Statement and affidavit, EPA Hearings on Tussock Moth Control, Portland Oregon, p. 9 (January 14, 1974); Jeffries, DJ. 1969. J Wildlife Management 32: 441-456 (Shells 7 percent thicker after two years on DDT diet); Robson, WA et al. 1976. Poultry Science 55:2222- 2227; Scott, ML et al. 1975. Poultry Science 54: 350-368 (Egg production, hatchability and shell quality depend on calcium, and are not effected by DDT and its metabolites); Spears, G & P. Waibel. 1972. Minn. Science 28(3):4-5; Tucker, RK & HA Haegele. 1970. Bull Environ Contam. Toxicol 5:191-194 (Neither egg weight nor shell thickness affected by 300 parts per million DDT in daily diet);Edwards, JG. 1973. Statement and affidavit, U.S. Senate Committee on Agriculture, 24 pages, October 24, 1973; Poult Sci 1979 Nov;58(6):1432-49 ("There was no correlation between concentrations of pesticides and egg shell thinning.")]


Experiments associating DDT with egg shell thinning involve doses much higher than would ever be encountered in the wild. [J Toxicol Environ Health 1977 Nov;3(4):699-704 (50 ppm for 6 months); Arch Environ Contam Toxicol 1978;7(3):359-67 ("acute" doses); Acta Pharmacol Toxicol (Copenh) 1982 Feb;50(2):121-9 (40 mg/kg/day for 45 days); Fed Proc 1977 May;36(6):1888-93 ("In well-controlled experiments using white leghorn chickens and Japanese quail, dietary PCBs, DDT and related compounds produced no detrimental effects on eggshell quality. ... no detrimental effects on eggshell quality, egg production or hatchability were found with ... DDT up to 100 ppm)]

Laboratory egg shell thinning required massive doses of DDE far in excess of anything expected in nature, and massive laboratory doses produce much less thinning than is seen in many of the thin-shelled eggs collected in the wild. [Hazeltine, WE. 1974. Statement and affidavit, EPA Hearings on Tussock Moth Control, Portland Oregon, p. 9 (January 14, 1974)]


Years of carefully controlled feeding experiments involving levels of DDT as high as present in most wild birds resulted in no tremors, mortality, thinning of egg shells nor reproductive interference. [Scott, ML et al. 1975. Poultry Science 54: 350-368 (Egg production, hatch ability and shell quality depend on calcium, and are not effected by DDT and its
metabolites)]

Egg shell thinning is not correlated with pesticide residues. [Krantz WC. 1970 (No correlation between shell-thinning and pesticide residues in eggs) Pesticide Monitoring J 4(3): 136-141; Postupalsky, S. 1971. Canadian Wildlife Service manuscript, April 8, 1971 (No correlation between shell-thinning and DDE in eggs of bald eagles and cormorants); Anon. 1970. Oregon State University Health Sciences Conference, Annual report, p. 94. (Lowest DDT residues associated with thinnest shells in Cooper's hawk, sharp-shinned hawk and goshawk); Claus G and K Bolander. 1977. Ecological Sanity, David McKay Co., N.Y., p. 461. (Feeding thyreprotein causes hens to lay lighter eggs, with heavier, thicker shells)]


Among brown pelican egg shells examined there was no correlation between DDT residue and shell thickness. [Switzer, B. 1972. Consolidated EPA hearings, Transcript pp. 8212-8336; and Hazeltine, WE. 1972. Why pelican eggshells are thin. Nature 239: 410-412]


Egg shells of red-tailed hawks were reported to be six percent thicker during years of heavy DDT usage than just before DDT use began. Golden eagle egg shells were 5 percent thicker than those produced before DDT use. [Hickey, JJ and DW Anderson. 1968. Science 162: 271-273]


Oil has been associated with egg shell thinning. [Anon. National Wildlife Federation, Conservation News, pp. 6-10, October 15 1979. (Embryonic mortality from oil on feathers of adults birds) ; Hartung, R. 1965. J Wildlife Management 29:872-874 (Oil on eggs reduces hatch ability by 68 percent); Libby, EE. 1978. Fish, wildlife and oil. Ecolibrium 2(4):7-10; King,
KA et al. 1979 Bull Environ Contam Tox 23:800-805 (Oil a probably cause of pelican mortality for six weeks after spill);Albers, PH. 1977. Fate and Effects of Petroleum Hydrocarbons in Marine Ecosystems, Pergamon Press, N.Y. (Chapters 15 & 16; Dieter, MP. 1977. Interagency Energy-Environment Research and Development Program Report, pp. 35-42 (5 microliters of oil on fertile egg kills 76 to 98 percent of embryos within; birds ingesting oil produce 70 percent to 100 percent less eggs than normal; offspring failed to develop normal flight feathers); Szaro, RC. 1977. Proc 42nd N Amer Wildlife Nat Resources Conference, pp. 375-376]

Lead has been associated with egg shell thinning. [Bellrose, RC. 1959. Ill Nat Hist Survey Bull 27:235-288 (Lead poisoning in wildlife)]


Mercury has been associated with egg shell thinning. [D'Itri, FM & PB Trost. 1970. International Conference on Mercury Contamination, Ann Arbor, September 30, 1070; Scott, JL et al. 1975. Effects of PCBs, DDT and mercury upon egg production, hatch ability and shell quality. Poultry Sci 54:3350-368; Stoewssand, GS et al.. 1971. Shell- thinning in quail fed mercuric
chloride. Science 173:1030-1031; Tucker, RK. 1971. Utah Science June 1971:47-49 (Effects of many chemicals on shell thickness).; Tucker, RK & HA Haegle. 1970. Bull Environ Contamin Toxicol 5:191-194]

Stress from noise, fear or excitement and disease are associated with egg shell thinning. [Scott, HM et al.. 1944. (Physiological stress thins shells) Poultry Science 23:446-453; Draper, MH & PE Lake. 1967. Effects of stress and defensive responses. In Environmental Control in Poultry Production, Oliver and Boyd, London; Reid, BL. 1971. (Effects of stress on laying birds) Farm Technology, Fall 1971; Sykes, AH. 1955 (Adrenaline excess inhibits shell formation) Poultry Science 34: 622-628]

Older birds produce thinner shells. [Sunde, ML. 1971 (Older birds produce thinner shells) Farm Technology, Fall 1971]

Normal egg shells become 5 percent thinner as developing embryos withdraw calcium for bone development. [Romanoff, AL and AJ Romanoff. 1967. Biochemistry of the Avian Embryo, Wiley & Sons, N.Y.; Simkiss, K. 1967. (Shells thinned by embryo development within) In Calcium in Reproductive Physiology, Reinhold, NY, pp 198-213]

Larger birds tend to produce thicker-shelled eggs. [Asmundson, VS et al. 1943. (Relations between the parts of birds' eggs) Auk 60:34-44]

Dehydration is associated with thinner egg shells. [Tucker, RK and HA Haegle. 1970. (30 percent thinner shells formed after quail were kept from water for 36 hours) Bull Environ Contam Toxicol 5(3): 191-194]

Temperature extremes are associated with thinner egg shells. [Romanoff, AL and AJ Romanoff, 1949. The Avian Egg, Wiley & Sons]

Decreased illumination is associated with thinner egg shells. [Peakall, DB. 1970. (Shells not thinned even after illumination was abruptly reduced from 16 hours daily to 8 hours daily and high DDT dosage begun simultaneously) Science 168:592-594; Day, EJ. 1971. (Importance of even illumination on laying birds) Farm Technology, Fall 1971;Houser, EJ. 1962. Pacific
Poultryman, August 1962; Morris, TR et al. 1964. (The most critical area of light duration is that between 16 hours and 8 hours daily) British Poultry Science 5: 133-147; Ward, P. 1972 (Physiological importance of photo period in bird experiments) Ibis 114: 275]

Human and predator intrusion is associated with thinner egg shells. [Beatty, RG. 1973. The DDT Myth, John Day Co., N.Y. 201 pages; Anon. 1971. Hawk Chalk 10(3):47-57; Cade, TJ. 1960. Ecology of the peregrine and gyrfalcon populations in Alaska. Univ Calif Publ Zool 63(3): 151-290]

Simple restraint interferes with the transport of calcium throughout the body of birds, preventing adequate calcium from reaching the shell gland and forming
good shells. [Sykes, AH. 1955. Poultry Science 34:622-628]

hosphorus deficiency is associated with thinner shells. [Crowley, TA et al. 1963. Poultry Science 54: 350-368]

Calcium deficiency is associated with thinner shells.[Greely, F.. 196 (Effects of calcium deficiency) J Wildlife Management 70:149-153; Romanoff, AL and AJ Romanoff. 1949. The Avian Egg, Wiley & Sons; Scott, ML. 1975. Poultry Science 54:350-368; Taylor, TG. 1970. How and eggshell is formed. Scientific American 222:89-95; Tucker, RK and HA Tucker. 1970. Bull Environ Contamin Toxicol 5(3):1191-194]

Egg shell deficiencies were attributed to DDT and DDE by U.S. Fish and Wildlife researchers even though the birds had been placed on low-calcium diets. [Bitman, J et al. 1969. Nature 224: 44-46; Bitman, J et al. 1970. Science 594-595.]

Cutting illumination from 16 hours daily to 8 hours daily at the same time as DDT feeding began had no significant adverse effect on shell quality. Shell quality was only adversely impacted after large amounts of DDE were injected into birds. [Peakall, DB. 1970. Science 168:592-594]

DDT was blamed for egg shell thinning even though a known egg shell thinner (dieldrin) was also added to the diet. [Porter, RD and SN Wiemeyer. 1969. Science 165: 199-200]

No significant correlation between DDE and egg shell thinning in Canadian terns even though the eggs contained as much as 100 parts per million of DDE. [Switzer, BG et al. 1971. Can J Zool 49:69-73]

 

[mamooth]

The sources are the studies themselves.

In that case, let me present some of my references.

The Audobon Society in 1978 reported that SSDD likes to bite the heads off birds and cackle as he drinks the blood.

The Spartacus Youth League in 1997 gave SSDD an award for being most promising Stalinist protege of the year.

Heckyl and Jeckyl 2011 reported that that SSDD was stockpiling nefarious substances in preparation for a mass genocide attack.

No, I don't need to back up any of those references. SSDD and Westwall have set a new standard. If you write something, everyone must accept it as a valid source.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I bet the scientists involved in all of these studies made up these data and lied because they knew there was a great deal of grant money out there on any topic that would denigrate and discredit the chemical industry, the former captains of American capitalism. Right?

Correct. The environmental movement is pure Marxism

 

[Crick]

Roger wilco

 

[jon_berzerk]

Solar in 30 years will make up at least 20% of the worlds energy needs.

at several times the labor intensity

 

[Crick]

Please explain

 

[Kosh]

Please explain

Yes Mathew explain how you came up with your numbers..

 

[Crick]

You really ought to stay out of conversations to which you don't belong. The odds of you having anything of value to add are slim to none.

The query was to Jon Berserk to explain why he thought solar power required additional labor over other energy technologies. And, of course, he has made no attempt in several days to provide an answer.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

You really ought to stay out of conversations to which you don't belong. The odds of you having anything of value to add are slim to none.

The query was to Jon Berserk to explain why he thought solar power required additional labor over other energy technologies. And, of course, he has made no attempt in several days to provide an answer.

How much do we have to reduce CO2 in order to drop temperature .5 degrees?

 

[Crick]

0.5 degrees from where?

The obvious target is to get it back to 280 ppm.

 

[jc456]

0.5 degrees from where?

The obvious target is to get it back to 280 ppm.

To achieve what goal?

 

[Crick]

0.5 degrees from where?

The obvious target is to get it back to 280 ppm.

To achieve what goal?

To eliminate all the warming caused by human emissions since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution. And when I asked "0.5 degrees from where?" I meant, 0.5 degrees less than what temperature at what point in time?

 

[jc456]

0.5 degrees from where?

The obvious target is to get it back to 280 ppm.

To achieve what goal?

To eliminate all the warming caused by human emissions since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution. And when I asked "0.5 degrees from where?" I meant, 0.5 degrees less than what temperature at what point in time?

What warming caused by humans? Where is that experiment that shows we do anything to the temperatures? Been asking you for some time now. Yet here you are still making the comments again without any evidence. Maybe you should go back and read that response from the other post about a holes and changing. You're funny though, but lack any qualification to make such statements, so that makes you a liar.

 

[Kosh]

You really ought to stay out of conversations to which you don't belong. The odds of you having anything of value to add are slim to none.

The query was to Jon Berserk to explain why he thought solar power required additional labor over other energy technologies. And, of course, he has made no attempt in several days to provide an answer.

Don't like it, then you are free to go to another board or not post here at all.

Not your board!

And you have ever offered anything other than lies based on a religion.

Got that link to datasets with source code that proves CO2 drive climate?

 

[Kosh]

0.5 degrees from where?

The obvious target is to get it back to 280 ppm.

To achieve what goal?

To eliminate all the warming caused by human emissions since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution. And when I asked "0.5 degrees from where?" I meant, 0.5 degrees less than what temperature at what point in time?

So you have nothing to offer other than your inability to answer a question using the AGW religious dogma.

Got any real science you would like to share?

 

[jc456]

To achieve what goal?

To eliminate all the warming caused by human emissions since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution. And when I asked "0.5 degrees from where?" I meant, 0.5 degrees less than what temperature at what point in time?

So you have nothing to offer other than your inability to answer a question using the AGW religious dogma.

Got any real science you would like to share?

This is simply hilarious right?