"common Sense Gun Laws"

[jillian]

Throughout these forums I see people calling for the need for "common sense" gun laws. Some have claimed we need to prosecute gun dealers whether they follow the rules or not.

I am curious, what "common sense" gun laws do you think we need to pass and why?

I can see where requiring a safe storage of loaded firearms, in houses where children live or can be reasonably expected to be, might be a good idea. That would cut down on the number of accidental deaths.

What else?

who has said gun dealers should be prosecuted even when they follow the rules?

prosecuted or civilly sued?

when bartenders "follow the rules" and someone drives drunk, they are responsible for damages. should gun dealers be different?

And JoeB wants gun dealers prosecuted if the customer commits murder with the firearm they sold them.

It would probably be good law to impose on gun sellers the obligation to check. And if the dealer knew or should have known that the person is a danger, then maybe a discussion about imposing liability is a good thing.

 

[WinterBorn]

Throughout these forums I see people calling for the need for "common sense" gun laws. Some have claimed we need to prosecute gun dealers whether they follow the rules or not.

I am curious, what "common sense" gun laws do you think we need to pass and why?

I can see where requiring a safe storage of loaded firearms, in houses where children live or can be reasonably expected to be, might be a good idea. That would cut down on the number of accidental deaths.

What else?

who has said gun dealers should be prosecuted even when they follow the rules?

prosecuted or civilly sued?

when bartenders "follow the rules" and someone drives drunk, they are responsible for damages. should gun dealers be different?

I would think the bartenders are held responsible if the person were visibly intoxicated.

And if a gun dealer has the capability to find out that someone is a criminal or mentally I'll? Isn't it common sense to make sure that reasonable background checks are done even at gun shows? And especially in states where anyone and their mother can get a gun?

Such a system is already in place. Every gun dealer is required to do a background check thru the NICS. What JoeyB insists is that a gun store clerk should be able to tell if someone is crazy.

 

[jillian]

Zeke, in case you have memory issues or difficulty reading, here is what I posted to start this thread:

"Throughout these forums I see people calling for the need for "common sense" gun laws. Some have claimed we need to prosecute gun dealers whether they follow the rules or not.

I am curious, what "common sense" gun laws do you think we need to pass and why?

I can see where requiring a safe storage of loaded firearms, in houses where children live or can be reasonably expected to be, might be a good idea. That would cut down on the number of accidental deaths.

What else?"


That I also think parents should be held responsible for OTHER acts of negligence does not change what I have said numerous times.

You THINK (I don't think so) that keeping loaded firearms out of the hands of kids who are home, MIGHT BE A GOOD IDEA. MIGHT BE?

Fuck, why am I participating in a conversation with an idiot? MIGHT be a good idea to keep Johnny from shooting himself with dads gun.

Fuck what a waste of time you are. I thought you might be more of a common sense gunner. Wrong again I was.

And just as an FYI, the biggest reason for my hedging my bet with "might" concerning the law requiring proper storage is the difficulty enforcing it until after the tragic event. Thereby making it a moot point concerning prevention.

So a law shouldn't be passed if enforcement is difficult?

 

[WinterBorn]

Throughout these forums I see people calling for the need for "common sense" gun laws. Some have claimed we need to prosecute gun dealers whether they follow the rules or not.

I am curious, what "common sense" gun laws do you think we need to pass and why?

I can see where requiring a safe storage of loaded firearms, in houses where children live or can be reasonably expected to be, might be a good idea. That would cut down on the number of accidental deaths.

What else?

who has said gun dealers should be prosecuted even when they follow the rules?

prosecuted or civilly sued?

when bartenders "follow the rules" and someone drives drunk, they are responsible for damages. should gun dealers be different?

And JoeB wants gun dealers prosecuted if the customer commits murder with the firearm they sold them.

It would probably be good law to impose on gun sellers the obligation to check. And if the dealer knew or should have known that the person is a danger, then maybe a discussion about imposing liability is a good thing.

The law already exists and has for a number of years. Every gun dealer is required to get approval from the federal gov't for each sale.

 

[WinterBorn]

Zeke, in case you have memory issues or difficulty reading, here is what I posted to start this thread:

"Throughout these forums I see people calling for the need for "common sense" gun laws. Some have claimed we need to prosecute gun dealers whether they follow the rules or not.

I am curious, what "common sense" gun laws do you think we need to pass and why?

I can see where requiring a safe storage of loaded firearms, in houses where children live or can be reasonably expected to be, might be a good idea. That would cut down on the number of accidental deaths.

What else?"


That I also think parents should be held responsible for OTHER acts of negligence does not change what I have said numerous times.

You THINK (I don't think so) that keeping loaded firearms out of the hands of kids who are home, MIGHT BE A GOOD IDEA. MIGHT BE?

Fuck, why am I participating in a conversation with an idiot? MIGHT be a good idea to keep Johnny from shooting himself with dads gun.

Fuck what a waste of time you are. I thought you might be more of a common sense gunner. Wrong again I was.

And just as an FYI, the biggest reason for my hedging my bet with "might" concerning the law requiring proper storage is the difficulty enforcing it until after the tragic event. Thereby making it a moot point concerning prevention.

So a law shouldn't be passed if enforcement is difficult?

Not what I said. I simply added "might" to it because of the difficulty enforcing it without allowing property searches without a warrant.

 

[jillian]

Throughout these forums I see people calling for the need for "common sense" gun laws. Some have claimed we need to prosecute gun dealers whether they follow the rules or not.

I am curious, what "common sense" gun laws do you think we need to pass and why?

I can see where requiring a safe storage of loaded firearms, in houses where children live or can be reasonably expected to be, might be a good idea. That would cut down on the number of accidental deaths.

What else?

who has said gun dealers should be prosecuted even when they follow the rules?

prosecuted or civilly sued?

when bartenders "follow the rules" and someone drives drunk, they are responsible for damages. should gun dealers be different?

I would think the bartenders are held responsible if the person were visibly intoxicated.

And if a gun dealer has the capability to find out that someone is a criminal or mentally I'll? Isn't it common sense to make sure that reasonable background checks are done even at gun shows? And especially in states where anyone and their mother can get a gun?

Such a system is already in place. Every gun dealer is required to do a background check thru the NICS. What JoeyB insists is that a gun store clerk should be able to tell if someone is crazy.

If you sell a gun at gun show or to an acquaintance, or in a sell to anyone state, it's my understanding there are no background checks. Had there been, the virginia tech shooter wouldn't have bendable to get the gun he purchased legally.

 

[WinterBorn]

Throughout these forums I see people calling for the need for "common sense" gun laws. Some have claimed we need to prosecute gun dealers whether they follow the rules or not.

I am curious, what "common sense" gun laws do you think we need to pass and why?

I can see where requiring a safe storage of loaded firearms, in houses where children live or can be reasonably expected to be, might be a good idea. That would cut down on the number of accidental deaths.

What else?

who has said gun dealers should be prosecuted even when they follow the rules?

prosecuted or civilly sued?

when bartenders "follow the rules" and someone drives drunk, they are responsible for damages. should gun dealers be different?

I would think the bartenders are held responsible if the person were visibly intoxicated.

And if a gun dealer has the capability to find out that someone is a criminal or mentally I'll? Isn't it common sense to make sure that reasonable background checks are done even at gun shows? And especially in states where anyone and their mother can get a gun?

Such a system is already in place. Every gun dealer is required to do a background check thru the NICS. What JoeyB insists is that a gun store clerk should be able to tell if someone is crazy.

If you sell a gun at gun show or to an acquaintance, or in a sell to anyone state, it's my understanding there are no background checks. Had there been, the virginia tech shooter wouldn't have bendable to get the gun he purchased legally.

Sales between private individuals are not covered under the NICS background check requirement. Whether it is at a gun show or not does not matter. If you are a gun dealer you are required to do the background check. But that is also not what JoeyB was saying should happen. He was talking specifically about gun dealers.

I'm not sure what you mean by "sell to anyone state". The NICS is a federal law for all gun dealers.

 

[martybegan]

Throughout these forums I see people calling for the need for "common sense" gun laws. Some have claimed we need to prosecute gun dealers whether they follow the rules or not.

I am curious, what "common sense" gun laws do you think we need to pass and why?

I can see where requiring a safe storage of loaded firearms, in houses where children live or can be reasonably expected to be, might be a good idea. That would cut down on the number of accidental deaths.

What else?

who has said gun dealers should be prosecuted even when they follow the rules?

prosecuted or civilly sued?

when bartenders "follow the rules" and someone drives drunk, they are responsible for damages. should gun dealers be different?

I would think the bartenders are held responsible if the person were visibly intoxicated.

And if a gun dealer has the capability to find out that someone is a criminal or mentally I'll? Isn't it common sense to make sure that reasonable background checks are done even at gun shows? And especially in states where anyone and their mother can get a gun?

Such a system is already in place. Every gun dealer is required to do a background check thru the NICS. What JoeyB insists is that a gun store clerk should be able to tell if someone is crazy.

If you sell a gun at gun show or to an acquaintance, or in a sell to anyone state, it's my understanding there are no background checks. Had there been, the virginia tech shooter wouldn't have bendable to get the gun he purchased legally.

Please get the story right. The issue wasn't that he bought the gun from some show, he got it from a dealer and passed the federal background check. What happened was Virginia did not notify the feds that he was found mentally incompetent by a judge years earlier, and thus barred from owning a firearm. That was the issue that was corrected, not something involving gun shows.

 

[WinterBorn]

Throughout these forums I see people calling for the need for "common sense" gun laws. Some have claimed we need to prosecute gun dealers whether they follow the rules or not.

I am curious, what "common sense" gun laws do you think we need to pass and why?

I can see where requiring a safe storage of loaded firearms, in houses where children live or can be reasonably expected to be, might be a good idea. That would cut down on the number of accidental deaths.

What else?

who has said gun dealers should be prosecuted even when they follow the rules?

prosecuted or civilly sued?

when bartenders "follow the rules" and someone drives drunk, they are responsible for damages. should gun dealers be different?

I would think the bartenders are held responsible if the person were visibly intoxicated.

And if a gun dealer has the capability to find out that someone is a criminal or mentally I'll? Isn't it common sense to make sure that reasonable background checks are done even at gun shows? And especially in states where anyone and their mother can get a gun?

Such a system is already in place. Every gun dealer is required to do a background check thru the NICS. What JoeyB insists is that a gun store clerk should be able to tell if someone is crazy.

If you sell a gun at gun show or to an acquaintance, or in a sell to anyone state, it's my understanding there are no background checks. Had there been, the virginia tech shooter wouldn't have bendable to get the gun he purchased legally.

The Va Tech shooter would have undergone the NICS background check. However, unless the data is reported to the system, it is not worth anything. The reason Cho could buy the gun is because his court ordered evaluation was not reported to the system.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Throughout these forums I see people calling for the need for "common sense" gun laws. Some have claimed we need to prosecute gun dealers whether they follow the rules or not.

I am curious, what "common sense" gun laws do you think we need to pass and why?

I can see where requiring a safe storage of loaded firearms, in houses where children live or can be reasonably expected to be, might be a good idea. That would cut down on the number of accidental deaths.

What else?

who has said gun dealers should be prosecuted even when they follow the rules?

prosecuted or civilly sued?

when bartenders "follow the rules" and someone drives drunk, they are responsible for damages. should gun dealers be different?

I would think the bartenders are held responsible if the person were visibly intoxicated.

And if a gun dealer has the capability to find out that someone is a criminal or mentally I'll? Isn't it common sense to make sure that reasonable background checks are done even at gun shows? And especially in states where anyone and their mother can get a gun?

CORI checks are to see if there is a criminal background.

No one can find out if another person is mentally ill unless a psych eval is done and even Drs can disagree on that so expecting a gun dealer to know whether a person is mentally ill is ludicrous.

 

[WinterBorn]

Throughout these forums I see people calling for the need for "common sense" gun laws. Some have claimed we need to prosecute gun dealers whether they follow the rules or not.

I am curious, what "common sense" gun laws do you think we need to pass and why?

I can see where requiring a safe storage of loaded firearms, in houses where children live or can be reasonably expected to be, might be a good idea. That would cut down on the number of accidental deaths.

What else?

who has said gun dealers should be prosecuted even when they follow the rules?

prosecuted or civilly sued?

when bartenders "follow the rules" and someone drives drunk, they are responsible for damages. should gun dealers be different?

I would think the bartenders are held responsible if the person were visibly intoxicated.

And if a gun dealer has the capability to find out that someone is a criminal or mentally I'll? Isn't it common sense to make sure that reasonable background checks are done even at gun shows? And especially in states where anyone and their mother can get a gun?

CORI checks are to see if there is a criminal background.

No one can find out if another person is mentally ill unless a psych eval is done and even Drs can disagree on that so expecting a gun dealer to know whether a person is mentally ill is ludicrous.

Indeed it is. Oddly, I did not notice Zeke claiming JoeyB was lacking in common sense. Funny, how that works, isn't it?

 

[Skull Pilot]

All of these what if and could be are fun but the truth is passing a law does not deter crime. All it does is spell out the punishment for the crime.

The simplest and most effective solution is to cultivate the attitude that if you commit a violent crime, any violent crime against another gun or no gun weapon or no weapon then you are removed from society for a very very long time if not for good.

 

[August West]

I just said you can have all the laws you want but you have to realize that no law will stop crime.

What is it your kind want?

Do you want pervasive invasive crime prevention tactics like random warrant-less searches and seizures and an overwhelming police and military presence everywhere that is justified in violating any guaranteed right so as to attempt (and fail) to prevent crime?

And I do not see how saying punishment for violent crimes should be draconian and absolute is a call for vigilantism.

That is the same logic that says calling for smaller government is the same as calling for anarchy.

And BTW I am not and have never been a republican. Try and expand your mind beyond your 2 dimensional pigeonhole for once.

Did I say what you wrote? Nah.
What I want is some reasonableness to the conversation about how to reduce crimes committed with a gun and reduce the number of senseless deaths brought about by irresponsible gun ownership.

Surely you can't oppose that goal? Why sure you could. And I expect you will. Cause it's just to hard to figure this out.

You can't legislate responsibility.

All you can do is punish those who commit violent crime and remove them from society.

The punishment is the deterrent for everyone but the worst violent criminal.

And the dumb criminals who think they won't get caught.

They get caught and spend the rest of their lives in a cage where they belong.

........................
i like that "cage" idea, a cage like the Viet Cong used for our captured pilots and ground troops when/if captured. i believe it was called a "Tiger Cage"

Our South Vietnamese "allies" used those cages for Buddhists and other political enemies.

 

[WinterBorn]

Did I say what you wrote? Nah.
What I want is some reasonableness to the conversation about how to reduce crimes committed with a gun and reduce the number of senseless deaths brought about by irresponsible gun ownership.

Surely you can't oppose that goal? Why sure you could. And I expect you will. Cause it's just to hard to figure this out.

You can't legislate responsibility.

All you can do is punish those who commit violent crime and remove them from society.

The punishment is the deterrent for everyone but the worst violent criminal.

And the dumb criminals who think they won't get caught.

They get caught and spend the rest of their lives in a cage where they belong.

........................
i like that "cage" idea, a cage like the Viet Cong used for our captured pilots and ground troops when/if captured. i believe it was called a "Tiger Cage"

Our South Vietnamese "allies" used those cages for Buddhists and other political enemies.

Does the 1st amendment specifically mention Buddhism? I think not.

That said, I doubt any laws will ever be passed allowing tiger cages to be used in our penal system.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Throughout these forums I see people calling for the need for "common sense" gun laws. Some have claimed we need to prosecute gun dealers whether they follow the rules or not.

I am curious, what "common sense" gun laws do you think we need to pass and why?

I can see where requiring a safe storage of loaded firearms, in houses where children live or can be reasonably expected to be, might be a good idea. That would cut down on the number of accidental deaths.

What else?

who has said gun dealers should be prosecuted even when they follow the rules?

prosecuted or civilly sued?

when bartenders "follow the rules" and someone drives drunk, they are responsible for damages. should gun dealers be different?

I would think the bartenders are held responsible if the person were visibly intoxicated.

And if a gun dealer has the capability to find out that someone is a criminal or mentally I'll? Isn't it common sense to make sure that reasonable background checks are done even at gun shows? And especially in states where anyone and their mother can get a gun?

CORI checks are to see if there is a criminal background.

No one can find out if another person is mentally ill unless a psych eval is done and even Drs can disagree on that so expecting a gun dealer to know whether a person is mentally ill is ludicrous.

Indeed it is. Oddly, I did not notice Zeke claiming JoeyB was lacking in common sense. Funny, how that works, isn't it?

thats because Zeke agrees with him....if he doesnt the name calling starts....

 

[M14 Shooter]

So that's what people like you want to hang your hat on eh? If we can't stop ALL the illegal activity with laws, then fuck it.
Don't try to stop ANY of the above.

I don't understand why you choose to not understand that laws against criminal activity are not designed to prevent that criminal activity but punish those that undertake said activity.

it is impossible to enact a law that will prevent people from breaking the law; there's no sound reason to restrict the rights of the law abiding based on any such fallacy.

 

[M14 Shooter]

If we stopped selling hand guns today what would the country look like 30 years down the road? More shootings or less?

~300,000,000 gun ins the US.
~8800 murders with a gun in the US per year.
99.997% of the guns in the US are -not- involved in a murder.
For every gun used in a murder, 34000 are not.
The number of guns in the US is not the problem.

 

[M14 Shooter]

If we stopped selling hand guns today what would the country look like 30 years down the road? More shootings or less?

How would anyone know that unless they have a crystal ball? It certainly doesn't work with handguns. Not to mention, it is a RIGHT.
Edit: Oops! Lol! I meant to say it certainly hasn't worked with drugs!!! It's still early!

The 2nd amendment specifically mentions hand guns? I think not.

What relevant and supportable definition of "arms" excludes handguns?

 

[M14 Shooter]

If we stopped selling hand guns today what would the country look like 30 years down the road? More shootings or less?

How would anyone know that unless they have a crystal ball? It certainly doesn't work with handguns. Not to mention, it is a RIGHT.

Edit: Oops! Lol! I meant to say it certainly hasn't worked with drugs!!! It's still early!

The 2nd amendment specifically mentions hand guns? I think not.

THIS was already taken care of with the Heller case. YES, we can have handguns.

Yes you can but only if they`re being sold. The court ruled that we have a right to defend ourselves in our homes with a firearm. That`s it.

No. that's -not- all of what the court said.

 

[M14 Shooter]

And if a gun dealer has the capability to find out that someone is a criminal or mentally I'll? Isn't it common sense to make sure that reasonable background checks are done even at gun shows? And especially in states where anyone and their mother can get a gun?

Do you know what the law says about selling guns to felons?