Communication between God and man

[PK1]

Communication between God and man ...

is subjective, no?
As such, how do we know this "communication" is not fantasy?

Specific god belief/faith is like putting the cart in front of the horse, i.e., ...
confirmation bias.

How do you know if anything is real or fantasy?

For many of us it came through self examination and we do witness to what we have seen and experienced.

Real or fantasy?
Yes, experience is usually (not always) a good differentiator, especially if you compare your experiences with another brain/person ... to be more objective.
Ultimately, it's about adaptation (to your environment/ecology) and survival that will reflect "reality".

I have learned that as mere humans we may think one thing but the facts may be something wholly different upon extreme examination. Most of us fail to recognize that there are spiritual things that determine our very thoughts and actions. We do that as we cannot understand certain things when they happen or when we were involved in them but unaware of the spiritual. It is something like asking a crowd of people what they saw when things happen but several saw something different even though all had a similar place to watch an event unfold. Or meeting someone for what you think is the first time yet there is something about that person that you seem to have known for a long time.

I do know when a person is being awakened spiritual and that veil between the spiritual mind and the carnal mind is removed it is very confusing to the flesh as we were not taught to view things in the spirit.

Sorry, but your comments convinced me that you live in a fantasy world where you use the word "spiritual" to reflect your ignorance, yet pretend you understand it in some way.
I am simply honest; i admit my ignorance beyond the horizon of the known (aka agnosticism).

I was "simply honest" too as I tell you that from experience. Carnally minded humans are extremely limited.

"Carnally minded" humans is a religious perversion.
I prefer the more objective epistemic methodology used by scientists.

 

[RodISHI]

Communication between God and man ...

is subjective, no?
As such, how do we know this "communication" is not fantasy?

Let's make the question more straight-forward. Sometimes, when people are trying to pray, do they enter into the realm of fantasy? The answer for me is, "Absolutely!" I enter into fantasy/imagination even in every day life. I know when I am imagining something, and I also know what is real.

Perhaps the problem for many atheists is that they do try to pray...and all they can come up with is fantasy. Therefore, it is easy to assume that this state must be the same for everyone, that some people are simply better pretenders. Instead think of people hitting the bulls-eye when shooting a bow and arrow from a distance of three hundred feet or more. Not many people will hit that target every time. But that doesn't mean it can't be done, especially with continuous practice. In many respects prayer is a skill.

Did you conclude that you consider your prayer behavior a "skill" within your fantasies?

"Prayer behavior" must be a precept you have. I simply have called on God my whole life when I felt the need and talked with God throughout whenever I had questions or sought to understand things in this world. It is as it is written, 'the kingdom is with in you'. It is up to us as humans to seek that out and many do but not all find answers as many are not looking in the right direction, look to humans verses the spirit for understanding or simply are not ready or willing to accept that the breath that gives life in in them.

 

[PK1]

Communication between God and man ...

is subjective, no?
As such, how do we know this "communication" is not fantasy?

Let's make the question more straight-forward. Sometimes, when people are trying to pray, do they enter into the realm of fantasy? The answer for me is, "Absolutely!" I enter into fantasy/imagination even in every day life. I know when I am imagining something, and I also know what is real.

Perhaps the problem for many atheists is that they do try to pray...and all they can come up with is fantasy. Therefore, it is easy to assume that this state must be the same for everyone, that some people are simply better pretenders. Instead think of people hitting the bulls-eye when shooting a bow and arrow from a distance of three hundred feet or more. Not many people will hit that target every time. But that doesn't mean it can't be done, especially with continuous practice. In many respects prayer is a skill.

Did you conclude that you consider your prayer behavior a "skill" within your fantasies?

"Prayer behavior" must be a precept you have. I simply have called on God my whole life when I felt the need and talked with God throughout whenever I had questions or sought to understand things in this world. It is as it is written, 'the kingdom is with in you'. It is up to us as humans to seek that out and many do but not all find answers as many are not looking in the right direction, look to humans verses the spirit for understanding or simply are not ready or willing to accept that the breath that gives life in in them.

How do you know that your "God" beliefs are not reflective of your fantasies to pacify your emotional insecurities?

 

[Meriweather]

Did you conclude that you consider your prayer behavior a "skill" within your fantasies?

You misunderstand. I am pointing out that non-believers who believe God is mere fantasy therefore believe those of us who believe are living in a fantasy.

My point: If non-believers can identify when their prayer is mere fantasy, believers have the same ability to identify fantasy as well. Instead, believers have touched upon reality and know this because believers also have the ability to distinguish between reality and fantasy.

Prayer (as is any type of communication) a skill that can be improved upon. The more it is practiced the better it becomes. There are many types of prayer in our tool boxes. It benefits us to know how/when to use each one.

 

[Meriweather]

How do you know that your "God" beliefs are not reflective of your fantasies to pacify your emotional insecurities?

Study and experience.

 

[RodISHI]

Communication between God and man ...

is subjective, no?
As such, how do we know this "communication" is not fantasy?

Let's make the question more straight-forward. Sometimes, when people are trying to pray, do they enter into the realm of fantasy? The answer for me is, "Absolutely!" I enter into fantasy/imagination even in every day life. I know when I am imagining something, and I also know what is real.

Perhaps the problem for many atheists is that they do try to pray...and all they can come up with is fantasy. Therefore, it is easy to assume that this state must be the same for everyone, that some people are simply better pretenders. Instead think of people hitting the bulls-eye when shooting a bow and arrow from a distance of three hundred feet or more. Not many people will hit that target every time. But that doesn't mean it can't be done, especially with continuous practice. In many respects prayer is a skill.

Did you conclude that you consider your prayer behavior a "skill" within your fantasies?

"Prayer behavior" must be a precept you have. I simply have called on God my whole life when I felt the need and talked with God throughout whenever I had questions or sought to understand things in this world. It is as it is written, 'the kingdom is with in you'. It is up to us as humans to seek that out and many do but not all find answers as many are not looking in the right direction, look to humans verses the spirit for understanding or simply are not ready or willing to accept that the breath that gives life in in them.

How do you know that your "God" beliefs are not reflective of your fantasies to pacify your emotional insecurities?

I have given several testimonies in this forum and to tell you why and how in a short post wouldn't cover it all. I can tell you experiences I had as a three year old child up until even more recent ones. God was always there for me. One of my most memorable experiences is laying my self down in the Colorado River in the middle of the night to let the river carry me away (I am not going to go into the exact details of why I had laid myself down in the river that night). I was pulled out of the river by an unseen force and set on the river bank fully dry. I was four years old when that transpired but did not take the time to examine the whole situation until I was forty years old as it was too painful to recall that portion of my childhood. Even then I questioned myself if it was all real and I asked "How can I tell?" I did not want to make any mistakes and I needed to know for myself as I had so many questions in my mind about so many events in my life and that one event created havoc on my life and my family for years to come. Since those days of doing that extreme self examination I have been allowed to see, experience more and have seen more about how the spiritual world is manifested here in earth. You can believe that or not it is your choice.

I have wrote about a young man on this forum that was saved from me shooting him by the spirit. It is in several places. Somewhere in this forum I also wrote about my son and the miracle of his life being restored after he was pronounced brain dead and on life support by doctors.
Who do you think are God's chosen people?

 

[Avatar4321]

What is this obsession you have that Christians MUST agree? Why must they agree? And what changes are you hoping for if they do agree?

I think he is just pointing out the obvious. You are comically avoiding being honest.

I think it matters if Christians agree. Isn't that what Jesus prayed, that they, believers in him, would all be of one accord, one mind, one teaching.?.. John 17:21


Either God is edible or he isn't. Some say yes, some say no.

Either Jesus was God or he wasn't. Some say yes, some say no.

either following the law according to the revelation of Jesus is the only way that leads to eternal life or its not. Not even one denomination has a clue..


all christian denominations profess to have hold of the truth. This is impossible given the many contradictions between their teachings.


are you saying that what the actual truth is doesn't matter?

Who says God is edible?

And the Lord sent the Holy Spirit to teach us the truth of all things. Not everyone is at the same level of understanding because not everyone has the same experiences with the Spirit. They ask different questions. Some have a harder time understanding truths. Some understand very easily.

Should we throw out Mathematica because some understand advanced calculus and trigonometry and some struggle with basic math?

 

[Avatar4321]

Christians care about the bible and Jesus... Things you can't even all agree on amongst yourselves.

We have already set forth that scientists don't agree among themselves. Nor do teachers, doctors, lawyers, or any other profession. Nor do husbands and wives. Nor do families.

What is this obsession you have that Christians MUST agree? Why must they agree? And what changes are you hoping for if they do agree?

Christians are trying to convince non-Christians of their beliefs and you all have different ones. So if you all don't agree, how do we know who is right to follow?

To repeat the op to a degree

"in every part and portion of the revelations of God as given to the children of men, or to any individual in heaven or on earth, to understand them properly, a man needs the Spirit by which they were given—the Spirit that reveals such matters to the understanding, and makes them familiar to the mind" - Brigham Young

 

[Avatar4321]

Is God edible?

Can God nourish us?

He can't put food on my table but he can give me cancer.

Without Him there is no food to put on your table. Without Him you wouldn't know how to put it on your table or that you even need it.

 

[Mudda]

Christians care about the bible and Jesus... Things you can't even all agree on amongst yourselves.

We have already set forth that scientists don't agree among themselves. Nor do teachers, doctors, lawyers, or any other profession. Nor do husbands and wives. Nor do families.

What is this obsession you have that Christians MUST agree? Why must they agree? And what changes are you hoping for if they do agree?

Christians are trying to convince non-Christians of their beliefs and you all have different ones. So if you all don't agree, how do we know who is right to follow?

To repeat the op to a degree

"in every part and portion of the revelations of God as given to the children of men, or to any individual in heaven or on earth, to understand them properly, a man needs the Spirit by which they were given—the Spirit that reveals such matters to the understanding, and makes them familiar to the mind" - Brigham Young

So you think that god only revealed such matters to a certified con man? Ummm...no.

 

[Mudda]

Is God edible?

Can God nourish us?

He can't put food on my table but he can give me cancer.

Without Him there is no food to put on your table. Without Him you wouldn't know how to put it on your table or that you even need it.

I don't have "Him" and just ate a big lunch. Please try again.

 

[Avatar4321]

Christians care about the bible and Jesus... Things you can't even all agree on amongst yourselves.

We have already set forth that scientists don't agree among themselves. Nor do teachers, doctors, lawyers, or any other profession. Nor do husbands and wives. Nor do families.

What is this obsession you have that Christians MUST agree? Why must they agree? And what changes are you hoping for if they do agree?

Christians are trying to convince non-Christians of their beliefs and you all have different ones. So if you all don't agree, how do we know who is right to follow?

To repeat the op to a degree

"in every part and portion of the revelations of God as given to the children of men, or to any individual in heaven or on earth, to understand them properly, a man needs the Spirit by which they were given—the Spirit that reveals such matters to the understanding, and makes them familiar to the mind" - Brigham Young

So you think that god only revealed such matters to a certified con man? Ummm...no.

No. I think that God will reveal His truth to anyone who seeks Him.

 

[Mudda]

Christians care about the bible and Jesus... Things you can't even all agree on amongst yourselves.

We have already set forth that scientists don't agree among themselves. Nor do teachers, doctors, lawyers, or any other profession. Nor do husbands and wives. Nor do families.

What is this obsession you have that Christians MUST agree? Why must they agree? And what changes are you hoping for if they do agree?

Christians are trying to convince non-Christians of their beliefs and you all have different ones. So if you all don't agree, how do we know who is right to follow?

To repeat the op to a degree

"in every part and portion of the revelations of God as given to the children of men, or to any individual in heaven or on earth, to understand them properly, a man needs the Spirit by which they were given—the Spirit that reveals such matters to the understanding, and makes them familiar to the mind" - Brigham Young

So you think that god only revealed such matters to a certified con man? Ummm...no.

No. I think that God will reveal His truth to anyone who seeks Him.

I've been seeking your god for a really long time. So far, nothing at all.

 

[Meriweather]

I've been seeking your god for a really long time. So far, nothing at all.

Take a lesson from Moses. Most often, God may only be seen in hindsight.

 

[Mudda]

I've been seeking your god for a really long time. So far, nothing at all.

Take a lesson from Moses. Most often, God may only be seen in hindsight.

Moses had a cool burning bush and some stone tablets carved by the Invisible Big Guy. I should be so lucky!

 

[Meriweather]

Moses had a cool burning bush and some stone tablets carved by the Invisible Big Guy. I should be so lucky!

Stop looking for burning bushes and stone tablets. Those were practically a dime a dozen in Moses' day. (Well, maybe not quite that cheap, but they weren't unusual, either.) The point is, scripture said as early as the Book of Kings that God is to be found in the very small, ordinary things that pass through our lives, almost unnoticed. Things like a whispering breeze.

 

[Mudda]

Moses had a cool burning bush and some stone tablets carved by the Invisible Big Guy. I should be so lucky!

Stop looking for burning bushes and stone tablets. Those were practically a dime a dozen in Moses' day. (Well, maybe not quite that cheap, but they weren't unusual, either.) The point is, scripture said as early as the Book of Kings that God is to be found in the very small, ordinary things that pass through our lives, almost unnoticed. Things like a whispering breeze.

There were burning bushes and 10 commandment tablets all over the place?

 

[Meriweather]

There were burning bushes and 10 commandment tablets all over the place?

Not what I said. You and I are having a hard time communicating today. I am trying. Are you?

 

[Mudda]

There were burning bushes and 10 commandment tablets all over the place?

Not what I said. You and I are having a hard time communicating today. I am trying. Are you?

You said that "they were practically a dime a dozen back in Moses' day". Your communication skills suck the bag.

 

[PK1]

How do you know that your "God" beliefs are not reflective of your fantasies to pacify your emotional insecurities?

Study and experience.

Experience what? Anything objective that can be corroborated?