Community Service, a really scary concept, REALLY SCARY ! ! ! !

[Annie]

Actually, that depends.

It has been used in many contexts, but even in child raising there are "prevailing community standards," and may or may not be codified. Peer pressure is not just a childhood thing.

Depending on the particular community, and the time in history, it may change.

However

When the larger community determines the parameters of the "greater good" the choice is to comply, suffer the consequences, or try to enlist enough like minds to change it... If it changes, then new standards. If it doesn't, comply or suffer the consequences.

That is and always has been true. Sometimes it works out to the good, sometimes it doesn't. When it doesn't in a local community, or even country, it may go as far as a world-wide pressure to comply with a different standard.

Do you really need examples of how that works?

First ones off the top of my head: Israeli kibbutz and fascist Germany.

 

[Againsheila]

I advocate a four year stint in either our military or in civilan conservation corps which entitles ALL KIDS to a full boat scholarship in any school (regardless of cost) they can get into.

I'll second that.

 

[Againsheila]

This is interesting. One of the very FEW members of this board who ADMITS they are a socialist actually thinks this is a bad idea.

Yeah, but then most of those people who believe "It takes a Village" to raise a child are the first to complain when you yell at their kid for doing something wrong.

 

[Gunny]

Actually, that depends.

It has been used in many contexts, but even in child raising there are "prevailing community standards," and may or may not be codified. Peer pressure is not just a childhood thing.

Depending on the particular community, and the time in history, it may change.

However

When the larger community determines the parameters of the "greater good" the choice is to comply, suffer the consequences, or try to enlist enough like minds to change it... If it changes, then new standards. If it doesn't, comply or suffer the consequences.

That is and always has been true. Sometimes it works out to the good, sometimes it doesn't. When it doesn't in a local community, or even country, it may go as far as a world-wide pressure to comply with a different standard.

Do you really need examples of how that works?

You're trying to play semantics now. Law is ALWAYS based on societal (community) standards. It does not however dictate individual personal belief.

Your belief that there's nothing wrong with compelling community service is not supported by the law. If it was, I would at least recognize it as being in compliance with the law, whether or not I agreed with it.

I also have no problem with your belief that community service is a good thing, as stated previously. I merely have a problem with your willingness to force that belief, by law, onto others.

I believe fat people need to get in shape. See where this can go?

 

[BlackAsCoal]

Yeah, but then most of those people who believe "It takes a Village" to raise a child are the first to complain when you yell at their kid for doing something wrong.

That also has absolutely nothing to do with socilaism.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Do you think a bunch of kids forced into community service would be allowed to organize a petition drive to abolish the forced volunteerism law?

That is community service via political activism, is it not?

 

[Againsheila]

You're trying to play semantics now. Law is ALWAYS based on societal (community) standards. It does not however dictate individual personal belief.

Your belief that there's nothing wrong with compelling community service is not supported by the law. If it was, I would at least recognize it as being in compliance with the law, whether or not I agreed with it.

I also have no problem with your belief that community service is a good thing, as stated previously. I merely have a problem with your willingness to force that belief, by law, onto others.

I believe fat people need to get in shape. See where this can go?

I'm a fat person, please, please help. I grew up learning the 4 food groups, now there's a pyramid. I grew up cooking meat and potatos, now I have to figure out how to cook dishes I never even heard of, and beleive me, cooking classes at a healthfood store are expensive. Gyms are expensive, and with a low functioning autistic child, I don't have the time to go anyway. They closed our local pool and opened up a community center much further away that costs hundreds to join.

Insurance companies refuse to pay for diet programs, or even pills to curb appetite.

I believe fat people need to get in shape too..it's just not as easy as that.

BTW, once, after a physical, I tried to talk to the doctor about my weight, after finding out I come from a long line of fat people, she said don't worry about it, I was in better shape than most thin people she knew. Of course, back then I walked more than 5 miles a day. Need to start doing that again.

 

[Gunny]

I'm a fat person, please, please help. I grew up learning the 4 food groups, now there's a pyramid. I grew up cooking meat and potatos, now I have to figure out how to cook dishes I never even heard of, and beleive me, cooking classes at a healthfood store are expensive. Gyms are expensive, and with a low functioning autistic child, I don't have the time to go anyway. They closed our local pool and opened up a community center much further away that costs hundreds to join.

Insurance companies refuse to pay for diet programs, or even pills to curb appetite.

I believe fat people need to get in shape too..it's just not as easy as that.

BTW, once, after a physical, I tried to talk to the doctor about my weight, after finding out I come from a long line of fat people, she said don't worry about it, I was in better shape than most thin people she knew. Of course, back then I walked more than 5 miles a day. Need to start doing that again.

I think you missed my point. I was addressing legislating one's personal views onto others. I don't walk up to fat, or even just ou tof shape people and tell them to go get in shape just because I am, nor do I believe the government should legislate than people have to get in shape.

 

[DiamondDave]

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

It would do the supporters of government mandated community service good to actually read our Constitution and it's subsequent amendments.

 

[Againsheila]

It would do the supporters of government mandated community service good to actually read our Constitution and it's subsequent amendments.

And yet, we've had the draft....

 

[Paulie]

And yet, we've had the draft....

I hope you're not suggesting that a discontinued policy somehow be considered a precedent for forced community service.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

And yet, we've had the draft....

Another unconstitutional program whereby the government assumes that it owns the lives of it's citizens.

 

[Ravi]

Do you think a bunch of kids forced into community service would be allowed to organize a petition drive to abolish the forced volunteerism law?

That is community service via political activism, is it not?

I love it!

 

[Againsheila]

I hope you're not suggesting that a discontinued policy somehow be considered a precedent for forced community service.

I'm suggesting that if forced community service is against the constitution, so is the draft, yet we've had that. I'm suggesting that our government isn't following the constituation and hasn't for a long time. I'm suggesting that Americans have become complacent and stupid and that if they had the blood of their forefather's in them, we would have a new government today.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I'm suggesting that if forced community service is against the constitution, so is the draft, yet we've had that. I'm suggesting that our government isn't following the constituation and hasn't for a long time. I'm suggesting that Americans have become complacent and stupid and that if they had the blood of their forefather's in them, we would have a new government today.

I agree with these sentiments.

 

[GigiBowman]

Will I have to wear a uniform when I volunteer for this community service? Will I have to have my arm implanted with a chip so they can keep track of me as I do my community service?

 

[Karrington]

Here's another gem the OP link.



Are you fucking kidding me ???

Now tell me for what purpose REALLY is Obama wanting the young AND the old to volunteer ?

Since when does "incourage" mean "require"? The truth is, many retired folks ARE looking for activities to occupy their time without necessarly going back to work. Websites like retired.org offer something similar to this. What I believe Obama is trying to get at is that the American dream is not working one's entire life just to slowly die after retirement. What he's saying is that one is never too old or too young to contribitute to society. At least that's the impression that I get, and frankly that is a welcomed attitude.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Since when does "incourage" mean "require"? The truth is, many retired folks ARE looking for activities to occupy their time without necessarly going back to work. Websites like retired.org offer something similar to this. What I believe Obama is trying to get at is that the American dream is not working one's entire life just to slowly die after retirement. What he's saying is that one is never too old or too young to contribitute to society. At least that's the impression that I get, and frankly that is a welcomed attitude.

Obama's website, change.gov, changed the wording from "required" to "encourage."

 

[Otter_Creek]

Obama's website, change.gov, changed the wording from "required" to "encourage."

Well I feel better now.