Confederate Flag: Symbol of ?

[Gadawg73]

I don't have fantasies. I observe and draw conclusions based on those observations.

Why does one part of ones heritage have to be more important than the other? Can't they both be equally important and equally honored?

What makes you think I'm thin skinned?

I haven't lost my cool or my temper. As a matter of fact I rather enjoy educating you.

Oh, I am far educated beyond your or my intelligence.
As indicated by your denials of what you claimed in previous posts.
You make a good point on the dual heritages Lonestar.
You are a Confederate American.

I can see how you can be more educated than your intelligence.

I don't deny my claims. I do deny your twisted interpretations of my claims.

Your claims are all over the map. First you claim that there were no policies in Germany that made killing of prisoners legal.
Lonestar, they lined up folks and shot them in daylight on the streets based on those policies.
Then you claimed that they had trials and were convicted based on those laws that made what they did illegal.
None of that ever happened.
WWII History 101 is taught at your local community college.

 

[oldfart]

Apparently you need to do more research.

The Nuremberg trials was for crimes against humanity. Like killing 6 million innocent people.

You are correct about the trials. But the racial purity laws in National Socialist Germany are refered to as the "Nuremburg laws". It's a common mistake.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Oh, I am far educated beyond your or my intelligence.
As indicated by your denials of what you claimed in previous posts.
You make a good point on the dual heritages Lonestar.
You are a Confederate American.

I can see how you can be more educated than your intelligence.

I don't deny my claims. I do deny your twisted interpretations of my claims.

Your claims are all over the map. First you claim that there were no policies in Germany that made killing of prisoners legal.
Lonestar, they lined up folks and shot them in daylight on the streets based on those policies.
Then you claimed that they had trials and were convicted based on those laws that made what they did illegal.
None of that ever happened.
WWII History 101 is taught at your local community college.

I never said anything about the killing of prisoners.

Please read what I wrote and do not add your BS to it.

 

[Gadawg73]

I can see how you can be more educated than your intelligence.

I don't deny my claims. I do deny your twisted interpretations of my claims.

Your claims are all over the map. First you claim that there were no policies in Germany that made killing of prisoners legal.
Lonestar, they lined up folks and shot them in daylight on the streets based on those policies.
Then you claimed that they had trials and were convicted based on those laws that made what they did illegal.
None of that ever happened.
WWII History 101 is taught at your local community college.

I never said anything about the killing of prisoners.

Please read what I wrote and do not add your BS to it.

Everyone in the concentration camps were labeled as prisoners.
Am not talking about POWs.

 

[Gadawg73]

My uncle was with some of the first Army troops to liberate concentration camps. My cousins still have all of the photos he took there. Shoes stacked 3 stories high. Teeth and hair in large rooms. Bodies stacked like chord wood.
When they went in they actually had to wait for weeks to let anyone go. Why?
Because they were all "prisoners" and they had to attempt to sort out who was who and why.
That was the fraud the Germans put on with their "laws" making what they did appear to be "legal".
Amazing it still has folks fooled to this day.

 

[Aristotle]

Ah, here we go poor whites are the victims of racism. Well let me tell you this. If you're white, and your a victim of racism welcome to my world, and my parents world, and my grandparents world, and my great great parents world and my great great great parents world, and my great great great great great........

The confederacy was anything but a symbol of rejecting tyranny and if it was, it was an inherent contradictory symbol. Why should you defend a flag used against supposed tyranny when white southerners were tyrants themselves against blacks?


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Now you are just posting inflammatory drivel meant to imply that the Confederate flag is akin to the Nazi flag in what it represents. I am not a southerner, but I have known many, from different parts of the south, and I have known them to be much more culturally complex than you may acknowledge, and for many, the flag is a cultural symbol rather than a political or dogmatic one, and thus symbolic of something that is difficult for those outside of the south to understand. My ancestors are from Kentucky and the lower mid-west, so I suppose I have some mild cultural tie to it, and perhaps that is why I am a little more empathetic.

If you want to post pictures of Klansmen holding a Confederate flag while giving the Bellamy salute nobody can stop you, but your limited perspective and your agenda are pretty transparent, to me at least. Clearly you view the Confederate flag as no different than the Nazi flag. Nobody can stop you from feeling that way, but it is not an appropriate comparison. The Nazi flag had zero cultural significance, and was every bit a political symbol. In fact, it did much to erase or marginalize German culture, which was very unfortunate for all of us because of many of the wonderful things about German culture. The Confederate flag is a much more complex symbol than the Nazi flag, and to suggest such a comparison is silly.

I'm sorry but as my grandfather sat and told me about the burning cross on his lawn while cowards wearing white pillow cover over their faces driving away with a confederate flag on their truck I thought I had a clue. Simply put the south was a hotbed of racism. I am not concerned how you guys sugarcoat the history of the confederate flag. I am not concerned how you sugarcoat the history of the klan. The fact remains is that the flag was a symbol of racism. If real southerners have an issue with the opinions of their flag perhaps they need to speak out against the racist that use their flag as a symbol of racism or perhaps they need to separate themselves from the racist that use their flag.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

The one on the roof of "General Lee" (Confederate battle flag?).

The battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. Got it.

Most people don't know what the "Confederate flag" really was.

As to the op, in my state, honest of effing gawd, they still call it The War Of Northern Aggression. Racism is rampant here. We even have an enclave on white supremacists just outside town.

The flag is a symbol the worst kind of racism.

 

[Gadawg73]

Ah, here we go poor whites are the victims of racism. Well let me tell you this. If you're white, and your a victim of racism welcome to my world, and my parents world, and my grandparents world, and my great great parents world and my great great great parents world, and my great great great great great........

The confederacy was anything but a symbol of rejecting tyranny and if it was, it was an inherent contradictory symbol. Why should you defend a flag used against supposed tyranny when white southerners were tyrants themselves against blacks?


View attachment 22125

View attachment 22126

View attachment 22127

Now you are just posting inflammatory drivel meant to imply that the Confederate flag is akin to the Nazi flag in what it represents. I am not a southerner, but I have known many, from different parts of the south, and I have known them to be much more culturally complex than you may acknowledge, and for many, the flag is a cultural symbol rather than a political or dogmatic one, and thus symbolic of something that is difficult for those outside of the south to understand. My ancestors are from Kentucky and the lower mid-west, so I suppose I have some mild cultural tie to it, and perhaps that is why I am a little more empathetic.

If you want to post pictures of Klansmen holding a Confederate flag while giving the Bellamy salute nobody can stop you, but your limited perspective and your agenda are pretty transparent, to me at least. Clearly you view the Confederate flag as no different than the Nazi flag. Nobody can stop you from feeling that way, but it is not an appropriate comparison. The Nazi flag had zero cultural significance, and was every bit a political symbol. In fact, it did much to erase or marginalize German culture, which was very unfortunate for all of us because of many of the wonderful things about German culture. The Confederate flag is a much more complex symbol than the Nazi flag, and to suggest such a comparison is silly.

I'm sorry but as my grandfather sat and told me about the burning cross on his lawn while cowards wearing white pillow cover over their faces driving away with a confederate flag on their truck I thought I had a clue. Simply put the south was a hotbed of racism. I am not concerned how you guys sugarcoat the history of the confederate flag. I am not concerned how you sugarcoat the history of the klan. The fact remains is that the flag was a symbol of racism. If real southerners have an issue with the opinions of their flag perhaps they need to speak out against the racist that use their flag as a symbol of racism or perhaps they need to separate themselves from the racist that use their flag.

Yes, the flag has been a SYMBOL of racism for many hate groups.
But it has also been a symbol to some, maybe just a few, of their heritage.
I do agree as I saw first hand the hate in the late 50s and 60s here from pussies standing behind that flag to persecute black folks. Played in a game in the county north of here my sophomore year in high school where they had fans in the stands flying it and ****** ****** ****** to our black players as they got off the bus. Saw a few of them shaking and puking before the game.
I saw it, lived it and it is always in my mind.
Bigots are still around but a bigot is different than a racist.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Oh, I am far educated beyond your or my intelligence.
As indicated by your denials of what you claimed in previous posts.
You make a good point on the dual heritages Lonestar.
You are a Confederate American.

I can see how you can be more educated than your intelligence.

I don't deny my claims. I do deny your twisted interpretations of my claims.

Your claims are all over the map. First you claim that there were no policies in Germany that made killing of prisoners legal.
Lonestar, they lined up folks and shot them in daylight on the streets based on those policies.
Then you claimed that they had trials and were convicted based on those laws that made what they did illegal.
None of that ever happened.
WWII History 101 is taught at your local community college.

You are an idiot. I have been constistent throughout.

I never once mentioned PRISONERS.

Those involved in the mass killing of innocent Jews were put on trial and convicted for crimes against humanity. The mass killing of innocent Jews was never LEGAL.

It did happen and history supports those facts.

Deal with it.

 

[Gadawg73]

I can see how you can be more educated than your intelligence.

I don't deny my claims. I do deny your twisted interpretations of my claims.

Your claims are all over the map. First you claim that there were no policies in Germany that made killing of prisoners legal.
Lonestar, they lined up folks and shot them in daylight on the streets based on those policies.
Then you claimed that they had trials and were convicted based on those laws that made what they did illegal.
None of that ever happened.
WWII History 101 is taught at your local community college.

You are an idiot. I have been constistent throughout.

I never once mentioned PRISONERS.

Those involved in the mass killing of innocent Jews were put on trial and convicted for crimes against humanity. The mass killing of innocent Jews was never LEGAL.

It did happen and history supports those facts.

Deal with it.

It was legal in Germany.

 

[editec]

Confederate Flag: Symbol of ?

Treason then and now racism.

We all know this... every one of us whther we love that rag or hate it knows this perfectly well.

Anybody who tells you otherwise is a bold faced liar.

 

[Gadawg73]

"Crimes against humanity" was the last of 4 indictments of the Nuremberg Tribunals. They arose NOT from any German laws or policies forbidding any of those crimes but as defined totally by The London Charter. They are prosecuted NOT as a sporadic event but as a result of GOVERNMENT POLICIES or a wide practice of atrocities TOLERATED OR CONDONED BY GOVERNMENT.
And that is specifically what happened in Germany under the Nazis and that was what specifically they were prosecuted under.
German policy WAS to kill Jews, gypsies, homosexuals and many others AND THEY DID IT under that policy.
And if it WAS NOT the government policy in NO WAY could they be prosecuted for it under "crimes against humanity" indictment in the Nuremberg Tribunals set up under The London Charter.

 

[Gadawg73]

Confederate Flag: Symbol of ?

Treason then and now racism.

We all know this... every one of us whther we love that rag or hate it knows this perfectly well.

Anybody who tells you otherwise is a bold faced liar.

A flag treason?
Under what part of the Constitution?
Dude, ACTIONS are treason, not a damn flag.
Racism is the belief that one race is superior to another.
Most of the Confederate rebels could care less about that with a division of Union forces approaching.
Bigotry is what you probably mean. Most folks around here that fly that flag are bigots.
Nothing to do about racism as a racist, and there are still many and they do fly that flag, is a belief, not an action.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

"Crimes against humanity" was the last of 4 indictments of the Nuremberg Tribunals. They arose NOT from any German laws or policies forbidding any of those crimes but as defined totally by The London Charter. They are prosecuted NOT as a sporadic event but as a result of GOVERNMENT POLICIES or a wide practice of atrocities TOLERATED OR CONDONED BY GOVERNMENT.
And that is specifically what happened in Germany under the Nazis and that was what specifically they were prosecuted under.
German policy WAS to kill Jews, gypsies, homosexuals and many others AND THEY DID IT under that policy.
And if it WAS NOT the government policy in NO WAY could they be prosecuted for it under "crimes against humanity" indictment in the Nuremberg Tribunals set up under The London Charter.

Do you even read what you write?

 

[Gadawg73]

"Crimes against humanity" was the last of 4 indictments of the Nuremberg Tribunals. They arose NOT from any German laws or policies forbidding any of those crimes but as defined totally by The London Charter. They are prosecuted NOT as a sporadic event but as a result of GOVERNMENT POLICIES or a wide practice of atrocities TOLERATED OR CONDONED BY GOVERNMENT.
And that is specifically what happened in Germany under the Nazis and that was what specifically they were prosecuted under.
German policy WAS to kill Jews, gypsies, homosexuals and many others AND THEY DID IT under that policy.
And if it WAS NOT the government policy in NO WAY could they be prosecuted for it under "crimes against humanity" indictment in the Nuremberg Tribunals set up under The London Charter.

Do you even read what you write?

The tribunals defined them as "crimes", not any German law or policy.
"You are an idiot"
Thought you were Mr. cool and calm there Moe.
Does not take much to see right through you.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

"Crimes against humanity" was the last of 4 indictments of the Nuremberg Tribunals. They arose NOT from any German laws or policies forbidding any of those crimes but as defined totally by The London Charter. They are prosecuted NOT as a sporadic event but as a result of GOVERNMENT POLICIES or a wide practice of atrocities TOLERATED OR CONDONED BY GOVERNMENT.
And that is specifically what happened in Germany under the Nazis and that was what specifically they were prosecuted under.
German policy WAS to kill Jews, gypsies, homosexuals and many others AND THEY DID IT under that policy.
And if it WAS NOT the government policy in NO WAY could they be prosecuted for it under "crimes against humanity" indictment in the Nuremberg Tribunals set up under The London Charter.

Do you even read what you write?

The tribunals defined them as "crimes", not any German law or policy.
"You are an idiot"
Thought you were Mr. cool and calm there Moe.
Does not take much to see right through you.

You yourself defined them as crimes. But go ahead and crawfish out of it.

What makes you think I'm not calm? Oh by describing you as an idiot? I just call 'em like I see 'em.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

My uncle was with some of the first Army troops to liberate concentration camps. My cousins still have all of the photos he took there. Shoes stacked 3 stories high. Teeth and hair in large rooms. Bodies stacked like chord wood.
When they went in they actually had to wait for weeks to let anyone go. Why?
Because they were all "prisoners" and they had to attempt to sort out who was who and why.
That was the fraud the Germans put on with their "laws" making what they did appear to be "legal".
Amazing it still has folks fooled to this day.

My father was one of those who forced German citizens out of their homes and into trucks to drive them out of town to view the concentration camps and the people in them. He never talked very much about it but my mother told us that he was beyond scarred by the experience of seeing those people, those walking skeletons. She said he once told her that he would always be able to smell it in his memory.

And, yes, there are many parallels and similarities in every kind of "ism".

Hitler succeeded in his death camps because he was able to make the people believe that it was the fault of the Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, blacks, that it was their fault that the economy was failing.

In the US now, were told that Latinos/Mexicans are taking away our jobs and using our resources. There is no evidence that they are actually doing harm but we need someone to blame.

Same reason why ObamaCare is not accepted. Not from a black man that the haters want to believe came from Africa.

Fear and hate are more powerful than love. Love of each other or love of country. Neither can compete with the fear and hate we feel for those who are different.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

My uncle was with some of the first Army troops to liberate concentration camps. My cousins still have all of the photos he took there. Shoes stacked 3 stories high. Teeth and hair in large rooms. Bodies stacked like chord wood.
When they went in they actually had to wait for weeks to let anyone go. Why?
Because they were all "prisoners" and they had to attempt to sort out who was who and why.
That was the fraud the Germans put on with their "laws" making what they did appear to be "legal".
Amazing it still has folks fooled to this day.

My father was one of those who forced German citizens out of their homes and into trucks to drive them out of town to view the concentration camps and the people in them. He never talked very much about it but my mother told us that he was beyond scarred by the experience of seeing those people, those walking skeletons. She said he once told her that he would always be able to smell it in his memory.

And, yes, there are many parallels and similarities in every kind of "ism".

Hitler succeeded in his death camps because he was able to make the people believe that it was the fault of the Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, blacks, that it was their fault that the economy was failing.

In the US now, were told that Latinos/Mexicans are taking away our jobs and using our resources. There is no evidence that they are actually doing harm but we need someone to blame.

Same reason why ObamaCare is not accepted. Not from a black man that the haters want to believe came from Africa.

Fear and hate are more powerful than love. Love of each other or love of country. Neither can compete with the fear and hate we feel for those who are different.

Nice strawman.

 

[PaulS1950]

Its a flag. It means different things to different indiviuals. Like bumper stickers - those who have them are judged by complete strangers because the stranger has no idea what it migt mean to the one who put it on their bumper.

To me it stands for the rights that states used to have before the federal government took them away. It is a warning that the same thing could happen to our individual rights.
I don't really care what it means to the rest of you - that is your personal right. Fly it or burn it - whichever you wish but do it knowing that you are exercising your right to free thought and free expression. Other rights that you may lose if you don't exercise them.

 

[Gadawg73]

Do you even read what you write?

The tribunals defined them as "crimes", not any German law or policy.
"You are an idiot"
Thought you were Mr. cool and calm there Moe.
Does not take much to see right through you.

You yourself defined them as crimes. But go ahead and crawfish out of it.

What makes you think I'm not calm? Oh by describing you as an idiot? I just call 'em like I see 'em.

They were crimes. What else would one define them as?
But they were not labeled as crimes under German law at that time.
Only an international tribunal labeled and punished them as crimes.
You know that now as we all had to educate you. You believed a German court held them accountable under German law.