Congratulations in advance: To all in support of gay marriage legalized

[Kosh]

"Congratulations in advance: To all in support of gay marriage legalized"

It's sad and telling that you and others hostile to gay Americans fail to understand the scope of the issue, an issue that has little to do with same-sex couples marrying and considerably more to do with the consistent and appropriate application of Constitutional case law that safeguards the civil rights of all Americans at the expense of government authority, where important limitations are placed on the states' power to violate citizens' civil rights.

As gay Americans realize their comprehensive civil rights, so too do all Americans benefit when government overreach is checked and citizens' inalienable rights recognized by the state.

Should the Supreme Court rule in a manner invalidating state measures denying same-sex couples access to marriage law, it won't be a 'victory' for gay Americans, it will be a victory for all Americans, a victory for the rule of law, allowing every citizen to benefit from the principles enshrined in the Constitution, allowing every citizen to realize his comprehensive civil rights.

Another far left drone religious dogma post has been made!

 

[Kosh]

The religious community are claiming to react to legalization SSM by ignoring the ruling...

The far left is a religion as well and they often use courts and the g9overnmnet to enforce their will on others..

Yep Kosh and I hope we can use this exercise to teach more people the social dynamic going on,
so they can understand it is the secular equivalent of violating "separation of church and state."

Just because it is a SECULARIZED or political belief you are imposing
(not a recognized religious belief) doesn't give you special rights over other people.

If you are saying Christians shouldn't impose their beliefs over your beliefs by force of govt,
well, neither should you, or you are contradicting your own principles.

The far left wants the government to control every aspect of your life. They have often wanted to implement a cradle to grave system for all..

The only freedom of choice you will have under that rule is what the far left tells you your choices are.

Who wants to live like that?

 

[Dragonlady]

If treating people who are different than you respectfully is such a hardship that it infringes on your sense of freedom, you're a pretty poor excuse for a human being.

If your definition of being free, includes the right to humiliate and degrade others, where is their freedom?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I am guessing with the momentum and direction things are going,
the Supreme Court Justices are more likely to legalize gay marriage.

I personally do not agree with abusing govt to settle matters of beliefs.

I think we are going to have to address that, and learn to resolve conflicts instead of continuing this trend.

But several things give me the sense that the changes will happen in an environment of allowing
gay marriage to be legalized:

A. Overall the popular social trend of pro-gay, and the demonization and rejection of Christianity,
and the support of younger generations seems to favor that direction, and those are the people inheriting
whatever is handed down.

B. The support of Christians churches in addressing gay Christians, gays, gay marriage and support for these has produced a more uplifting message, that has counteracted the negative trend of bashing Christians and blaming Christianity.

This issue has allowed this positive side of Christianity to come forward, instead of seeing the continued negative perception and framing of Christianity as the main image publicly recognized.

Right now, to win the battle, many have continued to stoke fear of bigotry and discrimination in order to convince govt to issue legal protections. So unfortunately, scapegoating Christian beliefs about homosexuality as bigotry has been used to win politically, when in fact, this makes no sense when so much of the support for gays, rights and marriage has come from Christianity. How can the same faith be blamed and then used to further the cause.

This may not even come out until after the smoke clears, and people can afford to be honest that it isn't fair to bash Christianity for political expedience while using Christian support to lobby and gain support of the public.

C. The need to bring out the choice and process of spiritual healing, which is nurtured in an environment of acceptance, not rejection. So ironically, the very voices of people who have changed their homosexual orientation may not even be publicly recognized until after gay marriage is legalized and most of the hostility and tension is released.

D. The need to recognize political beliefs, and to respect and separate these; instead of continuing to abuse govt to decide what beliefs of the people to endorse or not. This issue may not even be addressed until after this polarized debate is resolved. Again, ironically, the very attitude of equal acceptance of beliefs on both sides may not even be realized until after these court cases are decided.

In the end, people still need to resolve their issues with beliefs, and quit abusing govt to tell other people what to do and what beliefs to accept or not.

In the interest of conflict resolution, a more open dialogue and atmosphere of acceptance is needed.
And them maybe we can begin the conversation on equal ground, where people do not feel forced on the defensive. I am thinking that by approving legalization, that will take weight off people so we can have an honest conversation and quit this business of bashing each other's beliefs as bigotry, and quit abusing govt to push one political belief or agenda while trying to censor opposing beliefs from doing the same thing.

That whole trend will change, and I am guessing this issue and the decisions made will further that process.
That's my best guess as to where all this is going.

Congratulations to those who receive relief at the changes ahead.

And for those who feel aggrieved, I pledge to work with you to resolve the problems
that weren't solved this way. We still have work to do, and it is will take all of us doing it ourselves.

Not depending on govt to hand down rulings to us. But if we want to see change, we need to create our own solutions and programs, and hand marching orders to our govt. We get more done by working collaboratively on solutions we agree on, and I hope we cease this business of trying to influence public policy by political bully and crying victim.

If we want people to respect our beliefs, consent and values, we need to uphold the same standards.
And not compete to overrun, overrule and override each other, while complaining when others do that to us.

That change is what I most hope to see come out of these proceedings.

Thanks, everyone here, please take care, take courage and heart. And Take Responsibility for your beliefs.
Don't play games with govt, voting and media campaigns to manipulate. Sustainable change is by consent, not by coercion. So I hope we turn the page, and start working together in new, creative ways, to rebuild relations damaged in the past. And agree to respect each other, and break the cycle of bullying and abuse.

Yours truly,
Emily

Your TITLE vs YOUR SECOND PARAGRAPH are diametrically opposed.

Stupid ass trolls

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear C_Clayton_Jones
It's not telling, but assuming and insulting of
You to assume that my beliefs in isonomy mean hostile to gays! What part of inclusion and equal respect for beliefs of all ppl do YOU not get applies to ALL people? How does consensus leave out anyone?

All this time all msgs have been defending consensus and consent of the governed as the standard of law. Where did you get that consensus excludes gay interests?

How dare you project your lower standard of coercion on me, and assume just because you believe in that, you think I do too.

I have said over and over, till I sound like a broken record, that I believe decisions should be made by consensus by mediation and free choice. And because of that, this standards cannot be imposed but freely chosen.

Because I respect the rights and beliefs of both sides in this fight, I sympathize with both and believe agreements can be worked out. Just because you take one side over the other doesn't mean I do.

With ppl's beliefs, these are separate and there is no need to impose one policy for all.

Sorry you totally misunderstand everything I've ever posted on this forum if you think I believe it is constititional for the govt to impose on either side of an issue of disputing beliefs. I respect the consentvof both sides and have advocated for a consensuscon how to resolve this, so both sides are equally satisfied, included, protected and represented fully and equally. I believe in Constitutional equality not coercion of any ones beliefs over others.

I'm sorry you don't respect ppl's beliefs equally as your own. But don't project your lack of equal respect on me when that is your misperception and not what i'm abput.

"Congratulations in advance: To all in support of gay marriage legalized"

It's sad and telling that you and others hostile to gay Americans fail to understand the scope of the issue, an issue that has little to do with same-sex couples marrying and considerably more to do with the consistent and appropriate application of Constitutional case law that safeguards the civil rights of all Americans at the expense of government authority, where important limitations are placed on the states' power to violate citizens' civil rights.

As gay Americans realize their comprehensive civil rights, so too do all Americans benefit when government overreach is checked and citizens' inalienable rights recognized by the state.

Should the Supreme Court rule in a manner invalidating state measures denying same-sex couples access to marriage law, it won't be a 'victory' for gay Americans, it will be a victory for all Americans, a victory for the rule of law, allowing every citizen to benefit from the principles enshrined in the Constitution, allowing every citizen to realize his comprehensive civil rights.

 

[Katzndogz]

The nation is fracturing along many fault lines. Normalizing homosexuality is only one. The various parts not only don't work together they hate each other. They will not work together. They want a divorce. Not obeying the laws is merely the beginning of what's going to happen.

 

[emilynghiem]

Who are you addressing? Dragonlady
I believe in helping ppl correct their own issues internally first, so they don't go around humiliating others by projecting.
I find that political bullying, by pitting one side against the other, just makes it worse!
That's why I recommend using petitioning and due process to resolve conflicts and reasons for objection so all sides can reach an agreed conclusion, NOT abusing the system to bully by coersion or exclusion. Unfortunately, if we keep rewarding bullying behavior, ppl will keep using that shortcut to get their way instead of working out issues point by point to solve problems together.


You think going through govt is the only way to solve that problem?

That's like saying if I don't believe full grown adults should depend on running to their mommy and daddy whenever they get bullied, then that means I believe in bullying?
NO! I'm saying ppl should be trained to resolve their own conflicts and not depend on govt to step in and decide for them , especially on religious and faith-based beliefs such as marriage and homosexuality.

If you were trying to address me, I couldn't tell, because I don't believe in the negative things you assumed. Who were you addressing?

If treating people who are different than you respectfully is such a hardship that it infringes on your sense of freedom, you're a pretty poor excuse for a human being.

If your definition of being free, includes the right to humiliate and degrade others, where is their freedom?