Conservatives sold themselves two lies

[Oldstyle]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

We have to prove ourselves over time? Dude, it's been a little over a year since Trump was sworn in as President and he's been under nonstop attack from the main stream media and you on the left ever since he beat Hillary yet he's STILL managing to accomplish much of what he promised to do when he campaigned.

You seem to think because he DIDN'T yank the entire country over to his way of looking things overnight...that he's failed! That's quite frankly one of the dumber things someone's posted on here in quite some time. Let's be honest here...there is a HUGE part of the population that will still hate Trump no matter how successful his policies are and quite a few of them will hate him MORE if he's successful! You might want to "examine" that!

 

[BluesLegend]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

Lets score your OP post, WRONG, WRONG and WRONG. Its obvious you either didn't pay attention during the GOP primaries or you didn't understand them. Ask the mods to delete your thread due to a lack of shred of truth.

 

[Mac1958]

I understand that, seriously. But isn't this battle tough enough, without tying your own hands?

The GOP is not going to reach new voters with the ways it's doing things, and I don't care what the economy is like or where the stock market is. If it wants to stick to its principles and hope that it will attract people that way, well, good luck on that one.

In other words, I don't see the GOP trying to persuade anyone of anything, other than each other.
.

The GOP is a wasteland. My point is that Republicans are in office right now because Democrats didn't practice what you're preaching. They took shortcuts and now we're paying for it.

Sure, PC and Identity Politics are intellectually dishonest, cowardly, counter-productive and incredibly cynical. But they sure have been effective. So here we are, and the GOP is pretty much out of time to do anything about it.

I think they could have, but they wanted to stick to their "principles". Okay, that's their call. As I said, here we are.
.

???

Not sure what you don't get.

I've said all along - Demographics are in the process of dramatically changing, and the GOP is completely ignoring that fact.

If you disagree, if you think the party is cruising along in no danger, then we definitely disagree.
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Why don't you just say what you think the GOP should do in response to these demographic changes instead of beating around the bush.

I've been saying it forever: They have to reach out to minorities with a message that's sincere. And part of that message has to be an admission that the Right has made some pretty obvious screwups.

Look at the posts: So far no conservative agrees. That's selling out. That's pandering.

Okay, that's fine, but that's what it would take. Anything less is just rolling over.
.

 

[Mac1958]

Lets score your OP post, WRONG, WRONG and WRONG. Its obvious you either didn't pay attention during the GOP primaries or you didn't understand them. Ask the mods to delete your thread due to a lack of shred of truth.

Illustrating my point beautifully.
.

 

[Mac1958]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

We have to prove ourselves over time? Dude, it's been a little over a year since Trump was sworn in as President and he's been under nonstop attack from the main stream media and you on the left ever since he beat Hillary yet he's STILL managing to accomplish much of what he promised to do when he campaigned.

You seem to think because he DIDN'T yank the entire country over to his way of looking things overnight...that he's failed! That's quite frankly one of the dumber things someone's posted on here in quite some time. Let's be honest here...there is a HUGE part of the population that will still hate Trump no matter how successful his policies are and quite a few of them will hate him MORE if he's successful! You might want to "examine" that!

Well, you could be right. We'll see how it goes.

Is it safe to say that you have no concerns about the demographic changes coming?
.

 

[BluesLegend]

Lets score your OP post, WRONG, WRONG and WRONG. Its obvious you either didn't pay attention during the GOP primaries or you didn't understand them. Ask the mods to delete your thread due to a lack of shred of truth.

Illustrating my point beautifully.
.

Whatever ^^^

 

[Norman]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

Strong accusations from the guy that is to the center of exact center.

But it looks like a confused word salad, with no evidence to back up anything. As some would say "just your opinion man".

Anyway I am sure that some people have different priorities, such as looting other Americans. Illegally getting into the America to siphon wealth off the system, or initiate Sharia law in America. The whole point is that these people need to be told to fuck off. I am sure you already noticed that the people with the above mentioned goals aren't exactly happy with Trump, and never will be.

 

[Mac1958]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

Strong accusations from the guy that is to the center of exact center.

But it looks like a confused word salad, with no evidence to back up anything. As some would say "just your opinion man".

Anyway I am sure that some people have different priorities, such as looting other Americans. Illegally getting into the America to siphon wealth off the system, or initiate Sharia law in America. The whole point is that these people need to be told to fuck off. I am sure you already noticed that the people with the above mentioned goals aren't exactly happy with Trump, and never will be.

Sounds good! If you're happy with the way things are headed, if you don't see anything that needs to be changed, great.
.

 

[eagle1462010]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

For what? So far Trump is attempting to get done what he promised in the campaign. Behind the scenes the regulations are being cut. Obama one of the highest numbers of pages to Federal Regulations before he left office. That number was cut by 1/3 rd in Trumps first year. Tax cuts to stimulate growth are now a reality...................Keystone pipeline............TransPacific Trade agreement gone..........Appeasement of Iran gone..........Energy sector booming.......

Why would I throw my hands up when he has accomplished a lot while under constant attack.

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

LOL. That BS...........those that understand the Gov't know that there is nothing easy............that statement is bogus

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

You project too much and it's a matter of opinion only......................Hell conservatives disagree with each other.........dream on

 

[kaz]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

This is pretty uninsightful considering that it's not like there was another choice for people who are fed up with DC. I voted for Gary Johnson, but I had another option since I'm a libertarian

 

[Mac1958]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

This is pretty uninsightful considering that it's not like there was another choice for people who are fed up with DC. I voted for Gary Johnson, but I had another option since I'm a libertarian

So, no changes needed by the GOP, it's all good?
.

 

[kaz]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

So, the same sort of hubris that bit the Dems in the ass?

Life isn't either/or, one or the other, binary. Maybe there's another way.
.

I'm not sure our political infrastructure is capable of producing it, but there has never been a better time for a party that actually seeks consensus, rather than a narrow majority, when formulating policy goals.

How can we reach general agreement with a party that wants us to have no southern border and import a million illegal aliens a year to vote for their socialist agenda?

Democrats are suddenly and temporarily free trade just because Trump isn't.

How do you reach any sort of agreement with that even if the Republicans in a rare moment of lucidity would even try?

 

[kaz]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

This is pretty uninsightful considering that it's not like there was another choice for people who are fed up with DC. I voted for Gary Johnson, but I had another option since I'm a libertarian

So, no changes needed by the GOP, it's all good?
.

Wow, there's no possible way to get to that out of what I said.

I said Trump was the only Republican choice that said they are not happy. You offered no alternative proposal on that either. So if I were an unhappy Republican, my choices to say that were what, Trump and ???

Democrats were the same. A lot of non-socialists voted for Socialist Bernie just to say they weren't happy.

Criticizing that is not a real point unless you make an actual suggestion of what they could have done that would have been better

 

[Darkwind]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

I think your analysis is way off base.

1. Conservatives have no illusion that their way of thinking about how the world works and what is best for this country is not predicated on bringing those who disagree with them, into their fold. Clearly, when the insulting started by the left back in the 90's, it was met with insults by the right and as a consequence, each side is now entrenched in their talking points and wholly dedicated to their own worldview. Most, if not all, conservatives know this and make little effort to sway the left.

There are some moderates that are willing to listen to a reasoned argument and those who do not respond with invective to another person's viewpoint often can be persuaded to the conservative point of view. At least until the media manages to get their advocacy for all things left in full swing. It is then that the pendulum swings again. So, what is left to do?

We do what has always been done. You make changes when you have the power and fight against changes you disagree with when you don't have power. This has been the way of our country since its founding.

2. Conservatives, at least the smart ones, don't take into consideration the national priorities any more than the Democrats do. The Democrats don't follow any national priority. They follow their Party priority. This is witnessed by the fact that when they hold power, they ensure that not one little tidbit of the priorities of the right makes it into any policy. None at all, and they make no apology for shutting the GOP and the conservatives out of governing.

So, when the opportunity arises, the same must be done to them. No priority, no desire, no policy of theirs should be seen in the policies of the GOP when they hold the reigns of power. The Democrats should be shut completely out of the entire process.

No apology should be issued for doing this. None will ever come from them.

It is a false dichotomy to say national priorities should prevail until such time as we do away with 30 and 40-year politicians. We should do what they do. Get what we can, while we can. This is the single greatest argument for doing away with the filibuster rule there is.

Conservatives are rightly betrayed by Trump for these very reasons. Those that do support him have been seriously betrayed by his capitulation.

 

[Mac1958]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

This is pretty uninsightful considering that it's not like there was another choice for people who are fed up with DC. I voted for Gary Johnson, but I had another option since I'm a libertarian

So, no changes needed by the GOP, it's all good?
.

Wow, there's no possible way to get to that out of what I said.

I said Trump was the only Republican choice that said they are not happy. You offered no alternative proposal on that either. So if I were an unhappy Republican, my choices to say that were what, Trump and ???

Democrats were the same. A lot of non-socialists voted for Socialist Bernie just to say they weren't happy.

Criticizing that is not a real point unless you make an actual suggestion of what they could have done that would have been better

I've explained that in this thread. I've also explained that this requires patience and time, that it has to happen incrementally and not overnight. I've been told by conservatives that there's no time, that they're doing this the only way they can.

So, okay, we'll see how it goes.
.

 

[kaz]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

This is pretty uninsightful considering that it's not like there was another choice for people who are fed up with DC. I voted for Gary Johnson, but I had another option since I'm a libertarian

So, no changes needed by the GOP, it's all good?
.

Wow, there's no possible way to get to that out of what I said.

I said Trump was the only Republican choice that said they are not happy. You offered no alternative proposal on that either. So if I were an unhappy Republican, my choices to say that were what, Trump and ???

Democrats were the same. A lot of non-socialists voted for Socialist Bernie just to say they weren't happy.

Criticizing that is not a real point unless you make an actual suggestion of what they could have done that would have been better

I've explained that in this thread. I've also explained that this requires patience and time, that it has to happen incrementally and not overnight. I've been told by conservatives that there's no time, that they're doing this the only way they can.

So, okay, we'll see how it goes.
.

Well, you're an establishment Republican. Republicans have been "patient" my entire life, and we got shit for it. That's why I left the party under HW. Patient was a euphemism for do nothing.

I agree with you in so far that Trump wasn't an adequate choice for me. I'm TBD in 2020. But I totally get and agree with the Republicans who want to start fighting back with Democrats. Patience is getting you nothing ever

 

[dblack]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

So, the same sort of hubris that bit the Dems in the ass?

Life isn't either/or, one or the other, binary. Maybe there's another way.
.

I'm not sure our political infrastructure is capable of producing it, but there has never been a better time for a party that actually seeks consensus, rather than a narrow majority, when formulating policy goals.

How can we reach general agreement with a party that wants us to have no southern border and import a million illegal aliens a year to vote for their socialist agenda?

I don't know if you can get broad consensus for your agenda or not. But for large symbolic changes - like ACA, like the border wall - shoving something through with slim, partisan support benefits no one. It just leaves a pissed off minority who will undercut whatever you're trying to accomplish as soon as they're back in power. It's senseless thrashing. Even if it's only a few things, wouldn't it be better to pursue changes that (most) everyone can agree on?

Look at Social Security. Regardless of what we might think of it (I'm not a fan), it's been a "successful" government program. In as much as it has never been under any real threat, and still has the broad support of voters. Now look at the vote totals: House: 372/33 Senate: 77/6 with the wide majority of Republicans voting in favor in both houses.

There is common ground to be had. It won't be your ideal. I'm sure it won't be mine. But it might be something we can live with, without leaving behind a bevy of angry partisans ready to undo it all on the next election cycle.

 

[iceberg]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

not sure they sold themselves on lies. most people i know who voted trump were against hillary more than for trump.

pretty sure the liberal crowds could be found guilty of the same things. that they can "fix it quick" and everyone should love their own lifestyle and adapt quickly.

that's human nature, not left or right.

Please see post 48.
.

pretty amazing. when i first got here, you and i were pretty apart on views. these days we're pretty damn close.

good stuff. our problems are cultural, not material. the sooner we realize that the faster we can get past it.

 

[iceberg]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

This is pretty uninsightful considering that it's not like there was another choice for people who are fed up with DC. I voted for Gary Johnson, but I had another option since I'm a libertarian

So, no changes needed by the GOP, it's all good?
.

Wow, there's no possible way to get to that out of what I said.

I said Trump was the only Republican choice that said they are not happy. You offered no alternative proposal on that either. So if I were an unhappy Republican, my choices to say that were what, Trump and ???

Democrats were the same. A lot of non-socialists voted for Socialist Bernie just to say they weren't happy.

Criticizing that is not a real point unless you make an actual suggestion of what they could have done that would have been better

I've explained that in this thread. I've also explained that this requires patience and time, that it has to happen incrementally and not overnight. I've been told by conservatives that there's no time, that they're doing this the only way they can.

So, okay, we'll see how it goes.
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Well, you're an establishment Republican. Republicans have been "patient" my entire life, and we got shit for it. That's why I left the party under HW. Patient was a euphemism for do nothing.

I agree with you in so far that Trump wasn't an adequate choice for me. I'm TBD in 2020. But I totally get and agree with the Republicans who want to start fighting back with Democrats. Patience is getting you nothing ever

yep. if a middle of the road democrat comes up that proves he wants to work together, i'm listening.

don't care about left or right. that will never change. i care we work together again.

 

[dblack]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
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not sure they sold themselves on lies. most people i know who voted trump were against hillary more than for trump.

pretty sure the liberal crowds could be found guilty of the same things. that they can "fix it quick" and everyone should love their own lifestyle and adapt quickly.

that's human nature, not left or right.

Please see post 48.
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pretty amazing. when i first got here, you and i were pretty apart on views. these days we're pretty damn close.

good stuff. our problems are cultural, not material. the sooner we realize that the faster we can get past it.

The problem is that we've allowed them to become political.