Conservatives sold themselves two lies

[Oldstyle]

I guess when you have most of the main stream media in your back pocket and they will parrot whatever narrative you put out there...it makes them start to believe they can put out whatever narrative they want...no matter how ridiculous. Take the "Russian Collusion" narrative as an example. The story that Donald Trump won the last election because foreign agents conspired with the Trump Campaign to brainwash the American public has been pushed for the better part of a year now with absolutely ZERO proof of that happening! At the same time it's quite obvious that the Clinton Campaign did EXACTLY what they accused Trump of doing...paying huge sums of money to foreign agents to put together a fake dossier to try and smear their opponent!

 

[Oldstyle]

One of the ironies is that there is a substantial conservative reservoir in this demographic shift. In their own way, thr GOP plays their own game of identity politics through rejection, which hands these groups right to the Dems. Many Hispanics and Muslims are culturally conservative and devout.

Yep, very good point. And "rejection" is a very good term.

The GOP is doing this to themselves, and they don't have to. They've been led down the wrong road.
.

You know what I find most amusing about the left these days, Mac? It's their habit of accusing the opposition of the very thing that they themselves are guilty of. The GOP plays "identity politics"? Really?

Partisan ideologues do that. I can't speak for Coyote, but I think the two sides play that game differently. The Left is aggressive, cynical and blatant in its use of Identity Politics, and with the Right it's a more de facto, indirect thing.
.

The left says "you don't have what you deserve because that person over there took it from you"...the right says "we can help you become that person over there." That's the "game".

 

[Mac1958]

One of the ironies is that there is a substantial conservative reservoir in this demographic shift. In their own way, thr GOP plays their own game of identity politics through rejection, which hands these groups right to the Dems. Many Hispanics and Muslims are culturally conservative and devout.

Yep, very good point. And "rejection" is a very good term.

The GOP is doing this to themselves, and they don't have to. They've been led down the wrong road.
.

You know what I find most amusing about the left these days, Mac? It's their habit of accusing the opposition of the very thing that they themselves are guilty of. The GOP plays "identity politics"? Really?

Partisan ideologues do that. I can't speak for Coyote, but I think the two sides play that game differently. The Left is aggressive, cynical and blatant in its use of Identity Politics, and with the Right it's a more de facto, indirect thing.
.

The left says "you don't have what you deserve because that person over there took it from you"...the right says "we can help you become that person over there." That's the "game".

Not from a minority person's perspective. The GOP can ignore that if it wants to.
.

 

[Correll]

I'm NOT assuming that. We just don't have any better tools to work with.


We can't outshout them to get our message across, the left owns the media and pop culture.


Hell, they are starting to censor the internet.


We can't out bribe them. The government is broke and we know it. We can't compete with the Left when it comes to spending money we don't have. We just can't.


If we try to out pander them by offering to discriminate more against whites, we A. will still fail to win minority votes and will B. lose white votes, and C. immediately marginalize the majority of the nation from the political process.

Do you feel it's over, then?

The country is turning browner as we speak, so it's either do something or punt.

Which is it?
.

We've done/or are doing pretty much all we can.


What are you going to do about it?

After all, this is a problem coming from the Left, I'm on the outside, unable to even get a listen from 99.999 per cent of you guys.


If America is going to avoid a meltdown, maybe the answer can only come from your side.

If the GOP is going to just roll over, and that appears to be the case, it'll make things tougher on anyone trying to stop this.

I'm on the outside looking in, too. The Regressives have virtually total control of the party right now. I'm doing things locally, and that's the only thing I can think of to do at this point.
.

What exactly do you think we could DO?

Please see post 98.
.

1. Not addressing a specific concern you have, is not rejecting you.


2. We've done nothing to make minorities feel like outcasts. We've been pushing for civil rights and diversity and all that for generations. NIXON is the one that desegregated most of the Southern schools, for Christ's sake.

 

[Mac1958]

Do you feel it's over, then?

The country is turning browner as we speak, so it's either do something or punt.

Which is it?
.

We've done/or are doing pretty much all we can.


What are you going to do about it?

After all, this is a problem coming from the Left, I'm on the outside, unable to even get a listen from 99.999 per cent of you guys.


If America is going to avoid a meltdown, maybe the answer can only come from your side.

If the GOP is going to just roll over, and that appears to be the case, it'll make things tougher on anyone trying to stop this.

I'm on the outside looking in, too. The Regressives have virtually total control of the party right now. I'm doing things locally, and that's the only thing I can think of to do at this point.
.

What exactly do you think we could DO?

Please see post 98.
.

1. Not addressing a specific concern you have, is not rejecting you.


2. We've done nothing to make minorities feel like outcasts. We've been pushing for civil rights and diversity and all that for generations. NIXON is the one that desegregated most of the Southern schools, for Christ's sake.

Well, as I say above, that's not the perception of minorities. And perception is everything.
.

 

[Dragonlady]

One of the ironies is that there is a substantial conservative reservoir in this demographic shift. In their own way, thr GOP plays their own game of identity politics through rejection, which hands these groups right to the Dems. Many Hispanics and Muslims are culturally conservative and devout.

Yep, very good point. And "rejection" is a very good term.

The GOP is doing this to themselves, and they don't have to. They've been led down the wrong road.
.

You know what I find most amusing about the left these days, Mac? It's their habit of accusing the opposition of the very thing that they themselves are guilty of. The GOP plays "identity politics"? Really?

Absolutely.

Don’t be a race traitor. Keep America white. Vote Republican.
Keep people out from shithole countries. Vote Republican.

 

[Oldstyle]

One of the ironies is that there is a substantial conservative reservoir in this demographic shift. In their own way, thr GOP plays their own game of identity politics through rejection, which hands these groups right to the Dems. Many Hispanics and Muslims are culturally conservative and devout.

Yep, very good point. And "rejection" is a very good term.

The GOP is doing this to themselves, and they don't have to. They've been led down the wrong road.
.

You know what I find most amusing about the left these days, Mac? It's their habit of accusing the opposition of the very thing that they themselves are guilty of. The GOP plays "identity politics"? Really?

Partisan ideologues do that. I can't speak for Coyote, but I think the two sides play that game differently. The Left is aggressive, cynical and blatant in its use of Identity Politics, and with the Right it's a more de facto, indirect thing.
.

The left says "you don't have what you deserve because that person over there took it from you"...the right says "we can help you become that person over there." That's the "game".

Not from a minority person's perspective. The GOP can ignore that if it wants to.
.

What is that minority person's "perspective" built upon, Mac? When you're told over and over again that you are a victim...it's human nature to start to believe what you've been told. It's a seductive message. Failure isn't YOUR fault...it's that person over there's fault and if you vote for me...I'll help you get some of THEIR stuff that rightfully belongs to you! Isn't that the left's message?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

I think without term limits for all in government, it is a tough climb.

And of course, the people who could make that happen are the people who want it the least.

Term limits never made much sense to me. They're a bandaid at best. At worst, a hinderance. Think about. If our system was otherwise working correctly, and we have a rep we like, we should be able to keep them in office.

I agree. We'd be stuck with a Congress full of novices who are continually on a learning curve.

 

[Oldstyle]

One of the ironies is that there is a substantial conservative reservoir in this demographic shift. In their own way, thr GOP plays their own game of identity politics through rejection, which hands these groups right to the Dems. Many Hispanics and Muslims are culturally conservative and devout.

Yep, very good point. And "rejection" is a very good term.

The GOP is doing this to themselves, and they don't have to. They've been led down the wrong road.
.

You know what I find most amusing about the left these days, Mac? It's their habit of accusing the opposition of the very thing that they themselves are guilty of. The GOP plays "identity politics"? Really?

Absolutely.

Don’t be a race traitor. Keep America white. Vote Republican.
Keep people out from shithole countries. Vote Republican.

Dragonlady is the perfect example of how liberals use identity politics to attack the GOP. Trump calls for common sense immigration reform...something that we should have done YEARS ago! So what do people like DL fixate on? That Trump thinks some parts of the world are worse than others? Something that may not be politically correct but is 100% accurate?

 

[Mac1958]

What is that minority person's "perspective" built upon, Mac? When you're told over and over again that you are a victim...it's human nature to start to believe what you've been told. It's a seductive message. Failure isn't YOUR fault...it's that person over there's fault and if you vote for me...I'll help you get some of THEIR stuff that rightfully belongs to you! Isn't that the left's message?

Yes! As I said, the Left's multi-generational use of PC and Identity Politics has worked beautifully for them. They've been patient and consistent, and now all they have to do is bide their time and demographics are going to give them the transformation & payback they want. And there is no one on this board who is more virulently anti-PC and anti-Identity Politics than me. So we agree there.

I've been asked exactly what I would do. I really don't know. I can tell you that ignoring the upcoming demographic shift is just rolling over. I'd think the first thing that has to happen is that any obvious racism from the Right must be called out loudly and clearly by the Right. Not just ignored, but attacked.

I don't know. The GOP has slept on this, and now it's probably too late.
.

 

[Correll]

We've done/or are doing pretty much all we can.


What are you going to do about it?

After all, this is a problem coming from the Left, I'm on the outside, unable to even get a listen from 99.999 per cent of you guys.


If America is going to avoid a meltdown, maybe the answer can only come from your side.

If the GOP is going to just roll over, and that appears to be the case, it'll make things tougher on anyone trying to stop this.

I'm on the outside looking in, too. The Regressives have virtually total control of the party right now. I'm doing things locally, and that's the only thing I can think of to do at this point.
.

What exactly do you think we could DO?

Please see post 98.
.

1. Not addressing a specific concern you have, is not rejecting you.


2. We've done nothing to make minorities feel like outcasts. We've been pushing for civil rights and diversity and all that for generations. NIXON is the one that desegregated most of the Southern schools, for Christ's sake.

Well, as I say above, that's not the perception of minorities. And perception is everything.
.

So, our actions are irrelevant.


And that's what I have been saying all along.


This has nothing to do with us, what we say, what we do.

It is a creation of propaganda from the Left.



We could try to use government power to regulate propaganda from Hollywood and censorship online and in colleges.


That seems to be the only way to deal with the problem as you present it.


Won't work of course. THe GOP is too wedded to the idea of Freedom for that to be politically viable.

 

[Mac1958]

If the GOP is going to just roll over, and that appears to be the case, it'll make things tougher on anyone trying to stop this.

I'm on the outside looking in, too. The Regressives have virtually total control of the party right now. I'm doing things locally, and that's the only thing I can think of to do at this point.
.

What exactly do you think we could DO?

Please see post 98.
.

1. Not addressing a specific concern you have, is not rejecting you.


2. We've done nothing to make minorities feel like outcasts. We've been pushing for civil rights and diversity and all that for generations. NIXON is the one that desegregated most of the Southern schools, for Christ's sake.

Well, as I say above, that's not the perception of minorities. And perception is everything.
.

So, our actions are irrelevant.


And that's what I have been saying all along.


This has nothing to do with us, what we say, what we do.

It is a creation of propaganda from the Left.



We could try to use government power to regulate propaganda from Hollywood and censorship online and in colleges.


That seems to be the only way to deal with the problem as you present it.


Won't work of course. THe GOP is too wedded to the idea of Freedom for that to be politically viable.

Yep, it could be too late. Perceptions aren't going to change overnight. The GOP could at least try, but that doesn't appear to be in the cards.
.

 

[Dragonlady]

Do you feel it's over, then?

The country is turning browner as we speak, so it's either do something or punt.

Which is it?
.

We've done/or are doing pretty much all we can.


What are you going to do about it?

After all, this is a problem coming from the Left, I'm on the outside, unable to even get a listen from 99.999 per cent of you guys.


If America is going to avoid a meltdown, maybe the answer can only come from your side.

If the GOP is going to just roll over, and that appears to be the case, it'll make things tougher on anyone trying to stop this.

I'm on the outside looking in, too. The Regressives have virtually total control of the party right now. I'm doing things locally, and that's the only thing I can think of to do at this point.
.

What exactly do you think we could DO?

Please see post 98.
.

1. Not addressing a specific concern you have, is not rejecting you.


2. We've done nothing to make minorities feel like outcasts. We've been pushing for civil rights and diversity and all that for generations. NIXON is the one that desegregated most of the Southern schools, for Christ's sake.

The history of either party is irrelevant when it comes to civil rights because both parties have changed positions over the years. Reagan gave amnesty to illegals in the 80’s, too, but that would never happen today.

 

[Oldstyle]

What is that minority person's "perspective" built upon, Mac? When you're told over and over again that you are a victim...it's human nature to start to believe what you've been told. It's a seductive message. Failure isn't YOUR fault...it's that person over there's fault and if you vote for me...I'll help you get some of THEIR stuff that rightfully belongs to you! Isn't that the left's message?

Yes! As I said, the Left's multi-generational use of PC and Identity Politics has worked beautifully for them. They've been patient and consistent, and now all they have to do is bide their time and demographics are going to give them the transformation & payback they want. And there is no one on this board who is more virulently anti-PC and anti-Identity Politics than me. So we agree there.

I've been asked exactly what I would do. I really don't know. I can tell you that ignoring the upcoming demographic shift is just rolling over. I'd think the first thing that has to happen is that any obvious racism from the Right must be called out loudly and clearly by the Right. Not just ignored, but attacked.

I don't know. The GOP has slept on this, and now it's probably too late.
.

I disagree with you, Mac. I think that the left has been counting on locking up the Hispanic vote the same way they locked up the black vote for decades by accusing the opposition of "racism". The question becomes this...is the Hispanic community going to fall for being promised things that never get delivered on in return for their votes or are they going to learn from what happened to the black community? It's a choice between having the opportunity to live the "American Dream" or be caught in a never ending cycle of dependency. I think the jury is still out on what they decide. I hope for their own sake's that they say no thank you to what the Democrats are offering them.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Term limits never made much sense to me. They're a bandaid at best. At worst, a hinderance. Think about. If our system was otherwise working correctly, and we have a rep we like, we should be able to keep them in office.

That is the real issue.

Different regions vote in people they like. It is the other assholes from other regions that they want to go home.

This "union" is no longer working.

People in California and the Northeast U.S. hate free-market capitalism and want a European-style soft-tyranny socialist state.

We keep going back and forth because too many people believe the socialist bullshit.

We need to break up the union and start over. Let the commies do their goose-stepping, freedom hating in their own nation.

MOD Edit - did you forget you are in CDZ? No insulting members.


Change requires effort. It takes hard work, perseverence and time. It also requires a healthy dose of flexibility. Something the right has never understood. It's always anger and fear. It's civil war, killing or otherwise blowing it all up with them. If you're tired of being bested, then better yourself.

 

[Correll]

What exactly do you think we could DO?

Please see post 98.
.

1. Not addressing a specific concern you have, is not rejecting you.


2. We've done nothing to make minorities feel like outcasts. We've been pushing for civil rights and diversity and all that for generations. NIXON is the one that desegregated most of the Southern schools, for Christ's sake.

Well, as I say above, that's not the perception of minorities. And perception is everything.
.

So, our actions are irrelevant.


And that's what I have been saying all along.


This has nothing to do with us, what we say, what we do.

It is a creation of propaganda from the Left.



We could try to use government power to regulate propaganda from Hollywood and censorship online and in colleges.


That seems to be the only way to deal with the problem as you present it.


Won't work of course. THe GOP is too wedded to the idea of Freedom for that to be politically viable.

Yep, it could be too late. Perceptions aren't going to change overnight. The GOP could at least try, but that doesn't appear to be in the cards.
.

We've been trying for generations. THat you never even heard of it, just shows how doomed the attempts were.


I support and appreciate your efforts against the regressives.


But, continuing to use language like "the republicans have rejected minorities" is part of the problem.

 

[Correll]

We've done/or are doing pretty much all we can.


What are you going to do about it?

After all, this is a problem coming from the Left, I'm on the outside, unable to even get a listen from 99.999 per cent of you guys.


If America is going to avoid a meltdown, maybe the answer can only come from your side.

If the GOP is going to just roll over, and that appears to be the case, it'll make things tougher on anyone trying to stop this.

I'm on the outside looking in, too. The Regressives have virtually total control of the party right now. I'm doing things locally, and that's the only thing I can think of to do at this point.
.

What exactly do you think we could DO?

Please see post 98.
.

1. Not addressing a specific concern you have, is not rejecting you.


2. We've done nothing to make minorities feel like outcasts. We've been pushing for civil rights and diversity and all that for generations. NIXON is the one that desegregated most of the Southern schools, for Christ's sake.

The history of either party is irrelevant when it comes to civil rights because both parties have changed positions over the years. Reagan gave amnesty to illegals in the 80’s, too, but that would never happen today.

The GOP has never flipped on civil rights. We've been for them since our founding, all the way though.


The dems have supported racial discrimination since their founding, and still do, all the way though. They just shifted targets.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Hillary isn't President. That's a win and for most all that matters Mac.

She bitch from hell is not residing at 1600.

Another lie conservatives convinced themselves of.

The difference between Clinton and Trump is none. Purely optics, buried beneath a ridiculous conspiracy theory.

The general drift toward open conflict with Russia has gone on unabated.

I beg to differ. Why? Just one appointment made the difference for America. His name is Gorsuch.

re Russia Bolton will stop the idiotic sabre rattling by the Obama installed morons that keep clammering for.

Well with a hope and a prayer that will happen.

re Russia Bolton will stop the idiotic sabre rattling by the Obama installed morons that keep clammering for.

Obviously, widespread ignorance is a problem for conservatives as well.

 

[LoneLaugher]

The Left has been patient and consistent, and that's why it will ultimately get its way.
.

I think you're kidding yourself there. The left has been all too willing to push for radical change without real consensus. Arguably, that's WHY we're saddled with Trump. The Democrats abandoned their efforts to convince people and grow support, and pushed for change that had no consensus behind it. Major changes like health care reform need more than 51% support. Systemic changes on a national scale are costly and we shouldn't invest in them unless there is broad support.

Actually not.

Democrats have successfully built consensus on a number of issues:

A majority of Americans support a woman’s right to privacy.

A majority of Americans support equal protection rights for gay and transgender Americans.

A majority of Americans support the decriminalization of marijuana.

A majority of Americans support comprehensive immigration reform.

Indeed, Democrats are victims of their own success, having energized and motivated the right hostile to the above achievements, resulting in Republicans installing a minority government that doesn’t reflect the views and opinions of a majority of Americans.

I like that one. Victims of their own success. We'd better be less successful or we will be rendered obsolete/

 

[Mac1958]

What is that minority person's "perspective" built upon, Mac? When you're told over and over again that you are a victim...it's human nature to start to believe what you've been told. It's a seductive message. Failure isn't YOUR fault...it's that person over there's fault and if you vote for me...I'll help you get some of THEIR stuff that rightfully belongs to you! Isn't that the left's message?

Yes! As I said, the Left's multi-generational use of PC and Identity Politics has worked beautifully for them. They've been patient and consistent, and now all they have to do is bide their time and demographics are going to give them the transformation & payback they want. And there is no one on this board who is more virulently anti-PC and anti-Identity Politics than me. So we agree there.

I've been asked exactly what I would do. I really don't know. I can tell you that ignoring the upcoming demographic shift is just rolling over. I'd think the first thing that has to happen is that any obvious racism from the Right must be called out loudly and clearly by the Right. Not just ignored, but attacked.

I don't know. The GOP has slept on this, and now it's probably too late.
.

I disagree with you, Mac. I think that the left has been counting on locking up the Hispanic vote the same way they locked up the black vote for decades by accusing the opposition of "racism". The question becomes this...is the Hispanic community going to fall for being promised things that never get delivered on in return for their votes or are they going to learn from what happened to the black community? It's a choice between having the opportunity to live the "American Dream" or be caught in a never ending cycle of dependency. I think the jury is still out on what they decide. I hope for their own sake's that they say no thank you to what the Democrats are offering them.

I don't disagree. Hispanics are ripe for the picking. Hard working, devout, good people. But the GOP is not going to get them with a come-hither look. It's not going to get them with a stronger economy or a roaring stock market. That's what I've been saying all along here. You have to go after them with the same energy the Dems did. But the GOP refuses to do so.

Here's what cracks me up: Trump actually pleasantly surprised me back during the campaign. He actually TRIED when he asked minorities "what have you go to lose?" Holy shit, I thought, maybe he's actually going to reach out. Maybe this will wake the GOP up. Nope. That was it.

You have to reach out. You have to be clear and obvious. Until then, nada.
.