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Your revisionist history changes nothing. Had Trump taken the outbreak seriously when he was given warnings about it and acted earlier to prepare the country as well as more boldly once the outbreak first occurred we would be in an entirely different, better circumstance.WTF are you babbling about again?
apnews.com
Might want to look at the numbers in the hotspot of NY, over 60% were in the home, Cuomo even admitted that yesterday.Seeing as the data shows the opposite, I can only assume you are in the camp of those who do not care the Trump admin has failed, abjectly, in providing for the conditions to more safely re-open.Open it up, the data is saying those that remain inside are the ones who are getting sick.
Time to get the economy rebounding and people back to work. I know the communists think that sucks,
because the longer we are shut down the longer it will take to rebound.
The CDC guidelines were issued for a reason..........as safe a re-opening as possible under the circumstances.
Trump is encouraging states to ignore them for a reason...............his chances of re-election are more important to him than people's lives.
If his admin was competent much more testing would be available and the degree of the shutdown wouldn't have been so severe by necessity. It isn't.
Do me a favor. Provide a link for that info. One that cites evidence of your claim, that staying at home causes people to catch the virus.Might want to look at the numbers in the hotspot of NY, over 60% were in the home, Cuomo even admitted that yesterday.
www.forbes.com
Please be clear about how you interpret this info. Are you saying a person who stays home and is not infected, and does not come in to contact with someone who is infected, can be infected anyway? Like the virus is sneaking in the back door? Please explain.Oppps
New York Governor Andrew Cuomo shared initial survey results of hospitalized coronavirus patients during a Wednesday press conference, which said 66% of respondents were at home before being admitted, showing that the virus has continued to spread during lockdown, even as New York prepares for an eventual reopening.
About 1,200 patients were surveyed from 113 hospitals over a three-day period, Cuomo said; his office did not respond to a request for comment by Forbes.
In addition to mostly coming from their homes, surveyed patients were more likely to be over 51 years old, and either nonessential workers, retired or unemployed.
96% of the surveyed patients had co-morbidities, which means nearly all had another chronic medical condition prior to catching coronavirus.
The survey also found that COVID-19 disproportionately affects African Americans and Hispanics living in the New York City area.
The New York survey appears to be unique in that it released results on where patients came from before being hospitalized.
Some of the survey’s results on ethnicity and age appeared to match a Centers for Disease Control study of hospitalized patients released April 8, 2020, which showed that older people and African Americans were more likely to have COVID-19.
Majority Of New Coronavirus Cases In New York Are From People Staying At Home—Not Traveling Or Working
Cuomo says "much of this comes down to what you do to protect yourself."
Stated another way, the plan is to default on public problem solving, and then prevent the public from understanding the consequences of that default. To succeed this will require one of the biggest propaganda and freedom of information fights in U.S. history, the execution of which will, I think, consume the president’s re-election campaign. So much has already been made public that the standard script for a White House cover up (worse than the crime…) won’t apply. Instead, everything will ride on the manufacture of confusion. The press won’t be able to “expose” the plot because it will all happen in stark daylight. The facts will be known, and simultaneously they will be inconceivable.
...................................................................................................................................
The epidemiological models under review in the White House Situation Room in late March were bracing. In a best-case scenario, they showed the novel coronavirus was likely to kill between 100,000 and 240,000 Americans. President Trump was apprehensive about so much carnage on his watch, yet also impatient to reopen the economy — and he wanted data to justify doing so.
So the White House considered its own analysis. A small team led by Kevin Hassett — a former chairman of Trump’s Council of Economic Advisers with no background in infectious diseases — quietly built an econometric model to guide response operations.
............................................................................................................................................
"Trump’s normal sales pitch is to juxtapose his results against a horrific alternative. He routinely says that, had he not been elected, the economy would have collapsed, the U.S. would have gone to war with North Korea, and so on. Why, this time, did he establish a target he couldn’t meet? Indeed, why did he throw out numbers that were obviously going to be exceeded very quickly?
A chief culprit in the blunder turns out to be Kevin Hassett, the former chair of the Council of Economic Advisers. Despite having no expertise in epidemiology, Hassett designed his own model and “White House aides interpreted the analysis as predicting that the daily death count would peak in mid-April before dropping off substantially, and that there would be far fewer fatalities than initially foreseen,” reports the Washington Post."
Trump Got Dow 36,000 Author to Forecast the Coronavirus. It Didn’t Go Well.
Why did Trump keep citing impossibly low death totals? Kevin Hassett, who is neither a public-health expert nor a good economist, made a model.nymag.com
The "plan" is simply to insure Trump cannot be blamed when the numbers of sick and dying "surge" after states reopen. And there will be increases. If Trump's admin chose to provide standard tests and treatment products, as other administrations have done, we could reduce those numbers, but any reopening will increase the numbers of people infected. But with guidelines or even treatments, Trump would be blamed for any ineffectiveness
Of course Trump does not want to be blamed. Considering damn near one third of all US deaths are located in a single city and the leadership there is getting swooned over I am unsure of what blame needs to be assigned to Trump to begin with. A city that ran subways without any additional sanitation requirements until very recently and has a standing policy that nursing homes MUST take back covid 19 cases as well as new residents that carry the illness - a monumentally ignorant policy to allow to stand even before the lockdowns occurred let alone for a single second after.The "plan" is simply to insure Trump cannot be blamed when the numbers of sick and dying "surge" after states reopen. And there will be increases. If Trump's admin chose to provide standard tests and treatment products, as other administrations have done, we could reduce those numbers, but any reopening will increase the numbers of people infected. But with guidelines or even treatments, Trump would be blamed for any ineffectivenessStated another way, the plan is to default on public problem solving, and then prevent the public from understanding the consequences of that default. To succeed this will require one of the biggest propaganda and freedom of information fights in U.S. history, the execution of which will, I think, consume the president’s re-election campaign. So much has already been made public that the standard script for a White House cover up (worse than the crime…) won’t apply. Instead, everything will ride on the manufacture of confusion. The press won’t be able to “expose” the plot because it will all happen in stark daylight. The facts will be known, and simultaneously they will be inconceivable.
...................................................................................................................................
The epidemiological models under review in the White House Situation Room in late March were bracing. In a best-case scenario, they showed the novel coronavirus was likely to kill between 100,000 and 240,000 Americans. President Trump was apprehensive about so much carnage on his watch, yet also impatient to reopen the economy — and he wanted data to justify doing so.
So the White House considered its own analysis. A small team led by Kevin Hassett — a former chairman of Trump’s Council of Economic Advisers with no background in infectious diseases — quietly built an econometric model to guide response operations.
............................................................................................................................................
"Trump’s normal sales pitch is to juxtapose his results against a horrific alternative. He routinely says that, had he not been elected, the economy would have collapsed, the U.S. would have gone to war with North Korea, and so on. Why, this time, did he establish a target he couldn’t meet? Indeed, why did he throw out numbers that were obviously going to be exceeded very quickly?
A chief culprit in the blunder turns out to be Kevin Hassett, the former chair of the Council of Economic Advisers. Despite having no expertise in epidemiology, Hassett designed his own model and “White House aides interpreted the analysis as predicting that the daily death count would peak in mid-April before dropping off substantially, and that there would be far fewer fatalities than initially foreseen,” reports the Washington Post."
Trump Got Dow 36,000 Author to Forecast the Coronavirus. It Didn’t Go Well.
Why did Trump keep citing impossibly low death totals? Kevin Hassett, who is neither a public-health expert nor a good economist, made a model.
Wow. Your abject ignorance makes you a candidate to be ignored, not engaged with.Further, wtf is testing supposed to accomplish. This is one of the most idiotic things that keeps circling the media over and over again. The illness is here and has been, more than likely, since January. There is no containing it. There is no stopping it.
Please be clear about how you interpret this info. Are you saying a person who stays home and is not infected, and does not come in to contact with someone who is infected, can be infected anyway? Like the virus is sneaking in the back door? Please explain.
when you stop working your hardest, to kill more people, we will stop.
Not really surprising that you cannot engage. You have not engaged with anyone other than to spew some talking point. Even less surprising that you can only pull out a single statement out of 3 paragraphs. Too much for you to hold in your mind at one time?Wow. Your abject ignorance makes you a candidate to be ignored, not engaged with.Further, wtf is testing supposed to accomplish. This is one of the most idiotic things that keeps circling the media over and over again. The illness is here and has been, more than likely, since January. There is no containing it. There is no stopping it.
Not really surprising that you cannot engage. You have not engaged with anyone other than to spew some talking point. Even less surprising that you can only pull out a single statement out of 3 paragraphs. Too much for you to hold in your mind at one time?
Testing is not going to solve this, end of story.
Berg did not 'point out' anything.Not really surprising that you cannot engage. You have not engaged with anyone other than to spew some talking point. Even less surprising that you can only pull out a single statement out of 3 paragraphs. Too much for you to hold in your mind at one time?
Testing is not going to solve this, end of story.
You know, you are pointing out our ignorance as to the spread of the virus: "We are well beyond the point where contact tracing is viable particularly when you take into account that the virus seems to be able to spread long before symptoms occur." You are quite right in that, and it makes the virus all the more dangerous.
Any idea as to what an antidote to our ignorance might be? Yep, pervasive testing and contact tracing, along with isolating those found virus positive.
And that's why your whole argument, self-contradictory as it is, falls flat on its face. What's more, you didn't even reconsider, much less realize your error, when Berg pointed to it.
End of story.
Make up your mind you TDS addled idiot. Is it Trump’s power or is it the states decision? Doesn’t really matter since you’ll just bitch and put up more easily debunked libtard crap no matter what he does.................when Trump has been encouraging states to ignore them almost from the start?
I believe it was around 24 hours after the release of the guidelines, which most states that are re-opening have not met Guidelines call for 14-day drop in cases to reopen. No state has met them.
when the Tweeter-in-Chief began to call for a certain number of states to "liberate" themselves.
Trump’s ‘LIBERATE MICHIGAN!’ tweets incite insurrection. That’s illegal.
Presumably, he meant liberate themselves from the guidelines his admin had issued.
He released a plan for re-opening the economy and immediately suggested nobody follow it. What's up with that?
My sense is it's an attempt to sow confusion about who is ultimately responsible for the increase in deaths the admin says is going to happen after re-opening occurs. Trump has thrown out the earlier estimate of 60-100K deaths and admitted it will be higher.
Trump says 'there'll be more death' from coronavirus, but reopening is worth it
Trump said reopening parts of the nation's economy now would inevitably cost some Americans their lives. But he argued that the benefits outweighed the costs, in an interview on ABC.www.cnbc.com
Trying to assign responsibility will be like a game of pin the tail on the donkey (pun intended). Or really pin the tail on anyone but Trump, who famously said he accepts no responsibility for anything to do with the outbreak of COVID.
Cuz Don just wants to run a re-election campaign without being mired down by a discussion about the deaths of 70K Americans. Or the thousands to follow. He'd much prefer to talk about Old Joe, or the useless wall Mexico was going to pay for that he is taking money from other projects to build. Or how mean the press is to him. Or the fictitious deep state.
Anything but COVID. Basically his has been an exercise of escaping accountability for the disastrous, somewhat preventable outbreak in the US from the beginning. We certainly understand why. The government's response has been an ongoing abomination of mistakes both of omission and commission. Don, he wants to claim total authority over things...........just not when things go badly. For him, the buck stops anywhere but in the Oval Office.
Berg did not 'point out' anything.
You are a moron not worth conversing with. See, there is no point in that statement either. I am positive that you did not reconsider a thing after reading that idiotic statement.
More than testing is necessary and contract tracing does not work when you are seeing double digit infections within the population. Antibody testing is showing exactly how ignorant we are on how pervasive this virus is. Even that is hard to gauge considering how little we know about what those tests even mean as well.
One problem on the test test test bandwagon is that we do not even have solid information on what that testing means. More testing will not magically give us those answers either. You think that testing more people is going to tell us how long it takes before a positive test will occur? Of course not, it only tells us if there are viri particulates in your nose. That is it. More testing of more people does not tell you what that means - more research on the virus does. What will confer that information is time. THAT is the hard break we are up against. It takes time to study and understand how a virus works and there is little we can do to circumvent that reality. Tests or no tests. Further, Testing would need to be accomplished on a scale that is simply not viable at all. We are not going to administer tens of millions of tests per day - it is simply not going to happen.
And if you think that makes my point irrelevant I do not know what to tell you. We don't need pie in the sky demands before opening the economy as keeping the doors shut for much longer is simply impossible as well. People, for one thing, are not going to stay locked in their homes. People are also not financially prepared for much The lockdown itself is causing death and depravity as well, something that is largely ignored right now but will only get worse as time marches on. There are a LOT more considerations other than simply testing people. That is a tiny cog in a rather complex problem.
I certainly hope you aren’t leaving your house at all during this quarantine. Wouldn’t want you risking the lives of others with your selfishness.You know who else you'll be pissing off? Health care workers risking their lives to treat irresponsible assholes like you.I can't wait to go to the next protest to reopen the economy while ignoring social distancing guidelines just to piss off liberal Democrats.
Incorrect. You can get it from your mail carrier,UPS, anything delivered to your door such as medical supplies,groceries,take out etc. try again.The data is not showing that. you can make a case for isolation having negative health effects, but the virus itself can only be transmitted when people are not isolating themselves and families.Open it up, the data is saying those that remain inside are the ones who are getting sick.................when Trump has been encouraging states to ignore them almost from the start?
I believe it was around 24 hours after the release of the guidelines, which most states that are re-opening have not met Guidelines call for 14-day drop in cases to reopen. No state has met them.
when the Tweeter-in-Chief began to call for a certain number of states to "liberate" themselves.
Trump’s ‘LIBERATE MICHIGAN!’ tweets incite insurrection. That’s illegal.
Presumably, he meant liberate themselves from the guidelines his admin had issued.
He released a plan for re-opening the economy and immediately suggested nobody follow it. What's up with that?
My sense is it's an attempt to sow confusion about who is ultimately responsible for the increase in deaths the admin says is going to happen after re-opening occurs. Trump has thrown out the earlier estimate of 60-100K deaths and admitted it will be higher.
Trump says 'there'll be more death' from coronavirus, but reopening is worth it
Trump said reopening parts of the nation's economy now would inevitably cost some Americans their lives. But he argued that the benefits outweighed the costs, in an interview on ABC.
Trying to assign responsibility will be like a game of pin the tail on the donkey (pun intended). Or really pin the tail on anyone but Trump, who famously said he accepts no responsibility for anything to do with the outbreak of COVID.
Cuz Don just wants to run a re-election campaign without being mired down by a discussion about the deaths of 70K Americans. Or the thousands to follow. He'd much prefer to talk about Old Joe, or the useless wall Mexico was going to pay for that he is taking money from other projects to build. Or how mean the press is to him. Or the fictitious deep state.
Anything but COVID. Basically his has been an exercise of escaping accountability for the disastrous, somewhat preventable outbreak in the US from the beginning. We certainly understand why. The government's response has been an ongoing abomination of mistakes both of omission and commission. Don, he wants to claim total authority over things...........just not when things go badly. For him, the buck stops anywhere but in the Oval Office.
Time to get the economy rebounding and people back to work. I know the communists think that sucks,
because the longer we are shut down the longer it will take to rebound.
Berg did not 'point out' anything.
You are a moron not worth conversing with. See, there is no point in that statement either. I am positive that you did not reconsider a thing after reading that idiotic statement.
More than testing is necessary and contract tracing does not work when you are seeing double digit infections within the population. Antibody testing is showing exactly how ignorant we are on how pervasive this virus is. Even that is hard to gauge considering how little we know about what those tests even mean as well.
One problem on the test test test bandwagon is that we do not even have solid information on what that testing means. More testing will not magically give us those answers either. You think that testing more people is going to tell us how long it takes before a positive test will occur? Of course not, it only tells us if there are viri particulates in your nose. That is it. More testing of more people does not tell you what that means - more research on the virus does. What will confer that information is time. THAT is the hard break we are up against. It takes time to study and understand how a virus works and there is little we can do to circumvent that reality. Tests or no tests. Further, Testing would need to be accomplished on a scale that is simply not viable at all. We are not going to administer tens of millions of tests per day - it is simply not going to happen.
And if you think that makes my point irrelevant I do not know what to tell you. We don't need pie in the sky demands before opening the economy as keeping the doors shut for much longer is simply impossible as well. People, for one thing, are not going to stay locked in their homes. People are also not financially prepared for much The lockdown itself is causing death and depravity as well, something that is largely ignored right now but will only get worse as time marches on. There are a LOT more considerations other than simply testing people. That is a tiny cog in a rather complex problem.
For crying out loud.
First, a test tells us "if there are viri particulates in your nose", as you quite rightly say. Why would that information, which you breezily dismiss, be interesting? Simple enough, it tells us someone is spreading the virus, while someone without virus in their respiratory system doesn't. So, testing gives us exactly the kind of information we need to curtail the spread.
Second: The rest of your argument boils down to, "testing won't work because we won't be doing the testing." That's about as benighted as it gets. With the political will, there could be millions of tests per day, and that might be just enough to get through a slow, methodical re-opening without inviting full-scale disaster. That also denotes the full-scale disaster Trump's sorry excuse for leadership is, but sycophants on his and the plutocrats' behalf still crow about reopening, because they are oh-so concerned about out-of-work workers. That's about as laughable as it gets.
In theory you can disinfect any packages. But the point it you're more likely to catch the virus when in public. Please don't try to support innane positions like the social distancing is more dangerous to health than not social distancing.Incorrect. You can get it from your mail carrier,UPS, anything delivered to your door such as medical supplies,groceries,take out etc. try again.The data is not showing that. you can make a case for isolation having negative health effects, but the virus itself can only be transmitted when people are not isolating themselves and families.Open it up, the data is saying those that remain inside are the ones who are getting sick.................when Trump has been encouraging states to ignore them almost from the start?
I believe it was around 24 hours after the release of the guidelines, which most states that are re-opening have not met Guidelines call for 14-day drop in cases to reopen. No state has met them.
when the Tweeter-in-Chief began to call for a certain number of states to "liberate" themselves.
Trump’s ‘LIBERATE MICHIGAN!’ tweets incite insurrection. That’s illegal.
Presumably, he meant liberate themselves from the guidelines his admin had issued.
He released a plan for re-opening the economy and immediately suggested nobody follow it. What's up with that?
My sense is it's an attempt to sow confusion about who is ultimately responsible for the increase in deaths the admin says is going to happen after re-opening occurs. Trump has thrown out the earlier estimate of 60-100K deaths and admitted it will be higher.
Trump says 'there'll be more death' from coronavirus, but reopening is worth it
Trump said reopening parts of the nation's economy now would inevitably cost some Americans their lives. But he argued that the benefits outweighed the costs, in an interview on ABC.
Trying to assign responsibility will be like a game of pin the tail on the donkey (pun intended). Or really pin the tail on anyone but Trump, who famously said he accepts no responsibility for anything to do with the outbreak of COVID.
Cuz Don just wants to run a re-election campaign without being mired down by a discussion about the deaths of 70K Americans. Or the thousands to follow. He'd much prefer to talk about Old Joe, or the useless wall Mexico was going to pay for that he is taking money from other projects to build. Or how mean the press is to him. Or the fictitious deep state.
Anything but COVID. Basically his has been an exercise of escaping accountability for the disastrous, somewhat preventable outbreak in the US from the beginning. We certainly understand why. The government's response has been an ongoing abomination of mistakes both of omission and commission. Don, he wants to claim total authority over things...........just not when things go badly. For him, the buck stops anywhere but in the Oval Office.
Time to get the economy rebounding and people back to work. I know the communists think that sucks,
because the longer we are shut down the longer it will take to rebound.
