Could someone explain the point of issuing guidelines for re-opening the economy................

[berg80]

 

[bendog]

There is going to be an inevitable bill for opening up too early to be paid in form of surging infections and death counts. We already know the White House's own models show as much. Anyone willing to bet against the White House pointing to the CDC guidance not being followed by State Governors, while assuming no responsibility for anything? That's what the CDC guidance is for.

Of course, the shut-down will cause lasting damage to the economy, businesses failing and jobs being eradicated at a staggering rate. Opening up and the inevitable surge of infections is likely going to overwhelm the healthcare system, and to destroy the economy even more, since even consumers with money will restrict their purchases to the bare minimum to avoid infections. What's lying ahead is likely the worst of all worlds.

Also keep in mind, the 7-day-average of new confirmed infections per day is still above 25,000, pointing to stubborn community spread to the tune of about 100,000 - PER DAY. That's just slightly down from the peak 31k. The next exponential outbreak, in case social distancing isn't meticulously followed, will not start from a few dozen cases - it will start from hundreds of thousands of carriers unaware they are infected.

Exactly. There's really no option but to open up. Trump's problem is partially self made because he never wanted the testing to show tens of millions of people infected, and he's not even using the normal tools of the executive branch to standardize treatment and provide the money for private mftrers to make medical supplies, because he just doesn't want to take the responsibility. But ironically FDR didn't get blamed for surprise, nor did Truman or even W. JFK took a big political hit for the Bay of Pigs, but he regained his polling support with the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Even people inside the admin know what's being done wrong to open up, but the dims are probably without a candidate who will be seen as someone who can manage a crisis any better.

 

[berg80]

Even people inside the admin know what's being done wrong to open up,

The C.D.C. prepared detailed guidelines for reopening. The White House rejected them, asking for revisions.
The Trump administration has rejected detailed guidelines from health experts to help schools, restaurants, churches and other establishments safely reopen, saying they are too prescriptive, according to several administration officials.
The White House has asked for revisions from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, whose public health experts wrote the guidance, but some officials at the C.D.C. have privately expressed concern that the recommendations will never be posted publicly.

Latinos in Some States Have Seen Higher Rates of Infection (Published 2020)

President Trump’s travel restrictions led to an exodus from hot spots, but little rigorous testing. Another 3.2 million people filed for unemployment benefits.

www.nytimes.com

 

[EvilCat Breath]

We are facing the worst crisis this country has faced in a 100 years and all you do is whine and bitch.

Identify the crisis. It's democrat fury because they lost the 2016 election.

 

[Olde Europe]

Exactly. There's really no option but to open up. Trump's problem is partially self made because he never wanted the testing to show tens of millions of people infected, and he's not even using the normal tools of the executive branch to standardize treatment and provide the money for private mftrers to make medical supplies, because he just doesn't want to take the responsibility. But ironically FDR didn't get blamed for surprise, nor did Truman or even W. JFK took a big political hit for the Bay of Pigs, but he regained his polling support with the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Even people inside the admin know what's being done wrong to open up, but the dims are probably without a candidate who will be seen as someone who can manage a crisis any better.

You know, the economy needs to be running again at some time. That's just a truism. The salient question is, when, and how, and it is a life-and-death question to be answered by the best advice to be had, not by anti-science nitwits with two of two eyes out for the ownership class with the support by scores of sycophants.

The main point remains: A population too scared to go out because of a surge in cases does bode ill for the future economy. That's an insight so glaringly obvious, any mediocre third-grader can arrive at that conclusion. With that in mind, there is no candidate who wouldn't perform orders of magnitude better than Trump.

 

[bendog]

Exactly. There's really no option but to open up. Trump's problem is partially self made because he never wanted the testing to show tens of millions of people infected, and he's not even using the normal tools of the executive branch to standardize treatment and provide the money for private mftrers to make medical supplies, because he just doesn't want to take the responsibility. But ironically FDR didn't get blamed for surprise, nor did Truman or even W. JFK took a big political hit for the Bay of Pigs, but he regained his polling support with the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Even people inside the admin know what's being done wrong to open up, but the dims are probably without a candidate who will be seen as someone who can manage a crisis any better.

You know, the economy needs to be running again at some time. That's just a truism. The salient question is, when, and how, and it is a life-and-death question to be answered by the best advice to be had, not by anti-science nitwits with two of two eyes out for the ownership class with the support by scores of sycophants.

The main point remains: A population too scared to go out because of a surge in cases does bode ill for the future economy. That's an insight so glaringly obvious, any mediocre third-grader can arrive at that conclusion. With that in mind, there is no candidate who wouldn't perform orders of magnitude better than Trump.

Andy Slavitt or Tom Frieden can explain why testing is needed to prevent literally countless needless illnesses when opening up the country

and even Trump's idiot son in law can't solve the cluster fuck Trump's created with FIVE FDA directors in three years, FOUR CDC directors in three years, Seema Verma at Centers for Medicaid and Medicare Services and FIVE Secretaries of Health and Human Resources.

But Joe Biden appears to be still mastering the mystery of the smart phone.

 

[berg80]

The irony of criticism of those who want to be more cautious in re-opening, asking basically that the WH guidelines be adhered to, is adherence to the guidelines will better ensure a sustainable recovery. Not one in which the possibility of another shutdown due to a resurgence of the virus occurs.

 

[Olde Europe]

Andy Slavitt or Tom Frieden can explain why testing is needed to prevent literally countless needless illnesses when opening up the country

and even Trump's idiot son in law can't solve the cluster fuck Trump's created with FIVE FDA directors in three years, FOUR CDC directors in three years, Seema Verma at Centers for Medicaid and Medicare Services and FIVE Secretaries of Health and Human Resources.

But Joe Biden appears to be still mastering the mystery of the smart phone.

"Trump's idiot son in law" can't solve anything other than diverting federal funds into the coffers of his cronies.

Biden need not master the smart phone himself. All he needs to do is to tell apart those who can master it and useless quacks, and listen to the former. Biden has shown himself to be capable of doing that, while Trump thinks he's smart for having surrounded himself with lick-spittle incompetents without spine or any skills to get the job done who tell him what he wants to hear, and what a spectacular job he is doing in particular. There's going to be hell to pay for that.

 

[Oddball]

To keep you liberals from whining.

I wonder, when you say things about "you liberals" you do know you're talking about a majority of Americans, right?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/cont...-3-2020/9ac3c026-f68c-4733-82a0-daa6862d99b3/

You sniveling little bitches are nowhere near the majority of Muricans...Considering that half of all of us don't even vote, and the rest go about 40%-40%, and the oh-so precious "moderates squeezed in between, you freaks barely make it to 20% of the of the total population....So get the fuck over yourself.

 

[bendog]

To keep you liberals from whining.

I wonder, when you say things about "you liberals" you do know you're talking about a majority of Americans, right?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/cont...-3-2020/9ac3c026-f68c-4733-82a0-daa6862d99b3/

You sniveling little bitches are nowhere near the majority of Muricans...Considering that half of all of us don't even vote, and the rest go about 40%-40%, and the oh-so precious "moderates squeezed in between, you freaks barely make it to 20% of the of the total population....So get the fuck over yourself.

Math is hard.

 

[easyt65]

................when Trump has been encouraging states to ignore them almost from the start?

Combating COVID-19 | The White House

The Biden-Harris plan to beat COVID-19

www.whitehouse.gov

I believe it was around 24 hours after the release of the guidelines, which most states that are re-opening have not met Guidelines call for 14-day drop in cases to reopen. No state has met them.
when the Tweeter-in-Chief began to call for a certain number of states to "liberate" themselves.
Trump’s ‘LIBERATE MICHIGAN!’ tweets incite insurrection. That’s illegal.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/04/17/liberate-michigan-trump-constitution/

Presumably, he meant liberate themselves from the guidelines his admin had issued.

He released a plan for re-opening the economy and immediately suggested nobody follow it. What's up with that?

My sense is it's an attempt to sow confusion about who is ultimately responsible for the increase in deaths the admin says is going to happen after re-opening occurs. Trump has thrown out the earlier estimate of 60-100K deaths and admitted it will be higher.

Trump says 'there'll be more death' from coronavirus, but reopening is worth it

Trump said reopening parts of the nation's economy now would inevitably cost some Americans their lives. But he argued that the benefits outweighed the costs, in an interview on ABC.

www.cnbc.com

Trying to assign responsibility will be like a game of pin the tail on the donkey (pun intended). Or really pin the tail on anyone but Trump, who famously said he accepts no responsibility for anything to do with the outbreak of COVID.

Cuz Don just wants to run a re-election campaign without being mired down by a discussion about the deaths of 70K Americans. Or the thousands to follow. He'd much prefer to talk about Old Joe, or the useless wall Mexico was going to pay for that he is taking money from other projects to build. Or how mean the press is to him. Or the fictitious deep state.

Anything but COVID. Basically his has been an exercise of escaping accountability for the disastrous, somewhat preventable outbreak in the US from the beginning. We certainly understand why. The government's response has been an ongoing abomination of mistakes both of omission and commission. Don, he wants to claim total authority over things...........just not when things go badly. For him, the buck stops anywhere but in the Oval Office.

Guidelines are a recommendation from SMEs on how to do something - if YOU choose not to follow them and something goes bad, it's on YOU.

The governor of Illinois was given guidelines, for example, about reopening. In his attempt to justify HIS decision to not allow churches to reopen for as long as up to a year he cited these guidelines...and accidently made it clear they were SUGGESTIONS. Interfering with Constitutional Rights protecting religious freedom 'and the exercise thereof' was NOT one of those suggestions - that was all HIM!

'Mandates' and even guidelines don't override the Constitution...for long. Last week the DOJ / US AG made it clear that all of these mandates being made by states to help prevent the spread of COVID-19 must be a 'last resort' / 'no other way' situation and as soon as the danger passes or an alternate way that does not infringe on Constitutional Rights is found it must be used.

Guidelines are, again, really good suggestions by experts.

 

[Meister]

................when Trump has been encouraging states to ignore them almost from the start?

Combating COVID-19 | The White House

The Biden-Harris plan to beat COVID-19

www.whitehouse.gov

I believe it was around 24 hours after the release of the guidelines, which most states that are re-opening have not met Guidelines call for 14-day drop in cases to reopen. No state has met them.
when the Tweeter-in-Chief began to call for a certain number of states to "liberate" themselves.
Trump’s ‘LIBERATE MICHIGAN!’ tweets incite insurrection. That’s illegal.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/04/17/liberate-michigan-trump-constitution/

Presumably, he meant liberate themselves from the guidelines his admin had issued.

He released a plan for re-opening the economy and immediately suggested nobody follow it. What's up with that?

My sense is it's an attempt to sow confusion about who is ultimately responsible for the increase in deaths the admin says is going to happen after re-opening occurs. Trump has thrown out the earlier estimate of 60-100K deaths and admitted it will be higher.

Trump says 'there'll be more death' from coronavirus, but reopening is worth it

Trump said reopening parts of the nation's economy now would inevitably cost some Americans their lives. But he argued that the benefits outweighed the costs, in an interview on ABC.

www.cnbc.com

Trying to assign responsibility will be like a game of pin the tail on the donkey (pun intended). Or really pin the tail on anyone but Trump, who famously said he accepts no responsibility for anything to do with the outbreak of COVID.

Cuz Don just wants to run a re-election campaign without being mired down by a discussion about the deaths of 70K Americans. Or the thousands to follow. He'd much prefer to talk about Old Joe, or the useless wall Mexico was going to pay for that he is taking money from other projects to build. Or how mean the press is to him. Or the fictitious deep state.

Anything but COVID. Basically his has been an exercise of escaping accountability for the disastrous, somewhat preventable outbreak in the US from the beginning. We certainly understand why. The government's response has been an ongoing abomination of mistakes both of omission and commission. Don, he wants to claim total authority over things...........just not when things go badly. For him, the buck stops anywhere but in the Oval Office.

Open it up, the data is saying those that remain inside are the ones who are getting sick.
Time to get the economy rebounding and people back to work. I know the communists think that sucks,
because the longer we are shut down the longer it will take to rebound.

 

[bendog]

Andy Slavitt or Tom Frieden can explain why testing is needed to prevent literally countless needless illnesses when opening up the country

and even Trump's idiot son in law can't solve the cluster fuck Trump's created with FIVE FDA directors in three years, FOUR CDC directors in three years, Seema Verma at Centers for Medicaid and Medicare Services and FIVE Secretaries of Health and Human Resources.

But Joe Biden appears to be still mastering the mystery of the smart phone.

"Trump's idiot son in law" can't solve anything other than diverting federal funds into the coffers of his cronies.

Biden need not master the smart phone himself. All he needs to do is to tell apart those who can master it and useless quacks, and listen to the former. Biden has shown himself to be capable of doing that, while Trump thinks he's smart for having surrounded himself with lick-spittle incompetents without spine or any skills to get the job done who tell him what he wants to hear, and what a spectacular job he is doing in particular. There's going to be hell to pay for that.

I'd like to think so, and I honestly think Biden still has enough brain synapses still working to understand what people like Thomas Frieden (and even Scott Gottlieb) tell him about medicine and epidemiology. But he doesn't seem to have a clue about using social media to identify likely voters and target them with information. I mean, ya gotta connect with voters at some point.

 

[bendog]

................when Trump has been encouraging states to ignore them almost from the start?

Combating COVID-19 | The White House

The Biden-Harris plan to beat COVID-19

www.whitehouse.gov

I believe it was around 24 hours after the release of the guidelines, which most states that are re-opening have not met Guidelines call for 14-day drop in cases to reopen. No state has met them.
when the Tweeter-in-Chief began to call for a certain number of states to "liberate" themselves.
Trump’s ‘LIBERATE MICHIGAN!’ tweets incite insurrection. That’s illegal.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/04/17/liberate-michigan-trump-constitution/

Presumably, he meant liberate themselves from the guidelines his admin had issued.

He released a plan for re-opening the economy and immediately suggested nobody follow it. What's up with that?

My sense is it's an attempt to sow confusion about who is ultimately responsible for the increase in deaths the admin says is going to happen after re-opening occurs. Trump has thrown out the earlier estimate of 60-100K deaths and admitted it will be higher.

Trump says 'there'll be more death' from coronavirus, but reopening is worth it

Trump said reopening parts of the nation's economy now would inevitably cost some Americans their lives. But he argued that the benefits outweighed the costs, in an interview on ABC.

www.cnbc.com

Trying to assign responsibility will be like a game of pin the tail on the donkey (pun intended). Or really pin the tail on anyone but Trump, who famously said he accepts no responsibility for anything to do with the outbreak of COVID.

Cuz Don just wants to run a re-election campaign without being mired down by a discussion about the deaths of 70K Americans. Or the thousands to follow. He'd much prefer to talk about Old Joe, or the useless wall Mexico was going to pay for that he is taking money from other projects to build. Or how mean the press is to him. Or the fictitious deep state.

Anything but COVID. Basically his has been an exercise of escaping accountability for the disastrous, somewhat preventable outbreak in the US from the beginning. We certainly understand why. The government's response has been an ongoing abomination of mistakes both of omission and commission. Don, he wants to claim total authority over things...........just not when things go badly. For him, the buck stops anywhere but in the Oval Office.

Open it up, the data is saying those that remain inside are the ones who are getting sick.
Time to get the economy rebounding and people back to work. I know the communists think that sucks,
because the longer we are shut down the longer it will take to rebound.

The data is not showing that. you can make a case for isolation having negative health effects, but the virus itself can only be transmitted when people are not isolating themselves and families.

 

[bendog]

................when Trump has been encouraging states to ignore them almost from the start?

Combating COVID-19 | The White House

The Biden-Harris plan to beat COVID-19

www.whitehouse.gov

I believe it was around 24 hours after the release of the guidelines, which most states that are re-opening have not met Guidelines call for 14-day drop in cases to reopen. No state has met them.
when the Tweeter-in-Chief began to call for a certain number of states to "liberate" themselves.
Trump’s ‘LIBERATE MICHIGAN!’ tweets incite insurrection. That’s illegal.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/04/17/liberate-michigan-trump-constitution/

Presumably, he meant liberate themselves from the guidelines his admin had issued.

He released a plan for re-opening the economy and immediately suggested nobody follow it. What's up with that?

My sense is it's an attempt to sow confusion about who is ultimately responsible for the increase in deaths the admin says is going to happen after re-opening occurs. Trump has thrown out the earlier estimate of 60-100K deaths and admitted it will be higher.

Trump says 'there'll be more death' from coronavirus, but reopening is worth it

Trump said reopening parts of the nation's economy now would inevitably cost some Americans their lives. But he argued that the benefits outweighed the costs, in an interview on ABC.

www.cnbc.com

Trying to assign responsibility will be like a game of pin the tail on the donkey (pun intended). Or really pin the tail on anyone but Trump, who famously said he accepts no responsibility for anything to do with the outbreak of COVID.

Cuz Don just wants to run a re-election campaign without being mired down by a discussion about the deaths of 70K Americans. Or the thousands to follow. He'd much prefer to talk about Old Joe, or the useless wall Mexico was going to pay for that he is taking money from other projects to build. Or how mean the press is to him. Or the fictitious deep state.

Anything but COVID. Basically his has been an exercise of escaping accountability for the disastrous, somewhat preventable outbreak in the US from the beginning. We certainly understand why. The government's response has been an ongoing abomination of mistakes both of omission and commission. Don, he wants to claim total authority over things...........just not when things go badly. For him, the buck stops anywhere but in the Oval Office.

Guidelines are a recommendation from SMEs on how to do something - if YOU choose not to follow them and something goes bad, it's on YOU.

The governor of Illinois was given guidelines, for example, about reopening. In his attempt to justify HIS decision to not allow churches to reopen for as long as up to a year he cited these guidelines...and accidently made it clear they were SUGGESTIONS. Interfering with Constitutional Rights protecting religious freedom 'and the exercise thereof' was NOT one of those suggestions - that was all HIM!

'Mandates' and even guidelines don't override the Constitution...for long. Last week the DOJ / US AG made it clear that all of these mandates being made by states to help prevent the spread of COVID-19 must be a 'last resort' / 'no other way' situation and as soon as the danger passes or an alternate way that does not infringe on Constitutional Rights is found it must be used.

Guidelines are, again, really good suggestions by experts.

Well it's simply good Big Orange is having CDC issue those guidelines, little sleeze.

 

[easyt65]

I'd like to think so, and I honestly think Biden still has enough brain synapses still working to understand what people like Thomas Frieden (and even Scott Gottlieb) tell him about medicine and epidemiology. But he doesn't seem to have a clue about using social media to identify likely voters and target them with information. I mean, ya gotta connect with voters at some point.

Prior to self-quarantining Biden introduced himself to a crowd at one of his rallies by saying, "I'm Joe Biden, and I am running for THE US SENATE'.

He's the guy who led the Democrat opposition to the life-saving China Travel ban President Trump imposed, calling it Xenophobic and telling Americans to ignore the warnings and go about their daily lives as usual....only to admit what Trump did was the right thing to do.

Had Joe been the President instead of Trump many, many more Americans would have been infected and would be dead right now.

 

[berg80]

Open it up, the data is saying those that remain inside are the ones who are getting sick.
Time to get the economy rebounding and people back to work. I know the communists think that sucks,
because the longer we are shut down the longer it will take to rebound.

Seeing as the data shows the opposite, I can only assume you are in the camp of those who do not care the Trump admin has failed, abjectly, in providing for the conditions to more safely re-open.

The CDC guidelines were issued for a reason..........as safe a re-opening as possible under the circumstances.

Trump is encouraging states to ignore them for a reason...............his chances of re-election are more important to him than people's lives.

If his admin was competent much more testing would be available and the degree of the shutdown wouldn't have been so severe by necessity. It isn't.

 

[berg80]

Prior to self-quarantining Biden introduced himself to a crowd at one of his rallies by saying, "I'm Joe Biden, and I am running for THE US SENATE'.

Did he say anything about injecting disinfectants?

 

[easyt65]

Seeing as the data shows the opposite, I can only assume you are in the camp of those who do not care the Trump admin has failed, abjectly, in providing for the conditions to more safely re-open.

WTF are you babbling about again?

While Trump was activating the Infectious Disease Committee, getting the CDC focused and going, declaring a national emergency, Imposing a life-saving China Travel Ban, Democrats were calling Trump's actions Xenophobic, a waste of time, fear-mongering, they were writing legislation to BLOCK the travel ban, and giving Americans advice on HOW TO DIE: herd in large numbers, ride the subways, ignore the President and go about your daily lives - nothing to fear, nothing to see here.

When the CDC told Cuomo he needed to buy 4,000 Ventilator Beds for future epidemics, he blew them off and wasted the money. When the pandemic hit he squealed like a stuck pig begging Trump for Ventilator beds, demanding he needed thousands. Trump told him he would only need a couple of hundred. Trump was right - he needed something like 400, and Trump provided him with everything he needed.

Trump's administration provided governors with MORE than what they needed -- at least 1 hospital erected by the Army Corp of Engineers went unused and was shut down. The USNS Comfort showed up to help and was so underused it returned to port.

When Trump declared it was his responsibility to oversee the safe re-opening of states / the nation he got appropriate pushback from the states....so Trump's administration issued guidelines to HELP them with their decision-making. The ONUS, however, was on the STATES...

NOW you flip-flopping Trump-haters want to swing the pendulum back to blaming Trump if local / state governments / leaders F*-Up the re-opening of THEIR states?

And all the while the Democrats have proved they are about POWER and CONTROL, from holding up relief legislation to secure funding for abortions, state pensions, and their 'War on Cow Farts' to trampling Constitutional Rights...

 

[easyt65]

Prior to self-quarantining Biden introduced himself to a crowd at one of his rallies by saying, "I'm Joe Biden, and I am running for THE US SENATE'.

Did he say anything about injecting disinfectants?

UV lighting, sunshine, new technology coming out....things Democrats oppose / opposed....like the life-saving China Travel Ban