Dear Liberals: I Want a Divorce!

[Foxfyre]

American Exceptionalism IS...Liberty found nowhere else in the world.

Yes, the Founders envisioned a nation like no nation that had ever existed. The concept of natural (or God given) rights did not originate with them, but they embraced the concept. And the Constitution was built around that principle. Rather than having a monarch or authoritarian pope/church authority or dictator or feudal lords or other totalitarian system of government as existed everywhere else in the world, Americans would designate a government that would secure their rights and then leave them alone to form whatever sort of society they wished to have. It was a freedom that the world had never known before in all of recorded history and it remains unique among nations of the world today.

THAT is American exceptionalism and it is THAT which most, if not all, conservatives embrace in America now whether or not they know how to define it. It is the antithesis of modern day American liberalism.

So American exceptionalism can't exist anywhere but in Conservativeland and that is why we should have it.

Sad that acknowlegement of GOD and rights naturally conferred means Theocracy to far too many...

For too many on the Liberalland side, yes. Maybe that is why they find it so difficult to embrace a concept of American exceptionalism or even the intent of the First Amendment. And though the Founders, pretty much to a man, agreed that our unalienable rights come from God and not government, we conservatives today have our fair share of Atheists and agnostics. Still they can intellectually translate "God given rights" to "natural rights" and embrace the concept just the same.

The residents of Liberalland don't seem to have much capacity to do that.

 

[Ravi]

I'd love to see you social conservatives have your own country. What's stopping you? It certainly isn't your rabid hatred.

 

[bobcollum]

You mean you WANT those evil, polluting oil companies and all those evil corporations that so many on your side have been demonizing for years now? Who would have thought? Why do you want that which you say you hate? It is purely because nobody on your side has had anything positive to say about them for yuears now, that I assigned them to Conservativeland. We like them.

Since we are answering questions with questions, Would it be legal to be a liberal in conservative land? Would it be legal to be a conservative in liberal land? We know the answers to these questions and that should be reason enough for anyone to reject such a scenario out of hand.

I have no problem with anybody living in Conservativeland just so long as he or she doesn't try to turn it into Liberalland. That's why we want Liberalland to have the illegals. It is mostly folks on your side who like them, who want to keep funding them, and who think it is racist to reject them or object to them. Conservatives don't want them because too many of them have no interest in becoming Americans or assimilating into the American culture. They want to retain their language, their flag, their laws, etc. etc. while benefitting from whatever they can get from America. In Liberalland that apparently would not be a problem. In Conservativeland it would be.

Does that include the ones that the Conservatives employ?

 

[Foxfyre]

American exceptionalism is a philosophy we used when dealing with other nations, not our own people, no idea leads to fascism like "the enemy within". Quit talking about liberals as a "them", we are your neighbors and relatives who are relatively decent people who have no problem putting up with you.

You need to get your information from something other than Wiki. American Exceptionalism has nothing to do with dealing with other nations other than we are not obligated to submit to anybody else.

American Excpetionalism celebrates America's uniqueness, its focus on self governance, its concept of a people who own the government rather than the other way around, a concept of people possessing unaliienable rights that are not assigned by any government. You know, all those concepts put out there by the Founders that most liberals have despised and attempted to denigrate as much as possible. Most folks in Liberalland seem to appreciate and want to be more like Europe.

Conservativeland will embrace American exceptionalism and use it to very good advantage. And that's why Conservativeland should have it.

Meaningless stereotype is nothing to base a nation on, in fact, it may be the worse thing.

But that is the beauty of the divorce. To you it is meaningless stereotype. That's why you are a liberal. For me it is a partial explanation for who and what I am and why I am a conservative.

The OP already acknowledges that this huge divide cannot be bridged which is why we need the divorce. We don't ask you to love us. We just ask you to take your most beloved toys and go do your own thing and leave us to do ours. We understand that you think we'll have an absolutely horrible terrible country. But it won't be your concern as you will be building your own shining, glorious utopia of Liberalland.

 

[occupied]

You need to get your information from something other than Wiki. American Exceptionalism has nothing to do with dealing with other nations other than we are not obligated to submit to anybody else.

American Excpetionalism celebrates America's uniqueness, its focus on self governance, its concept of a people who own the government rather than the other way around, a concept of people possessing unaliienable rights that are not assigned by any government. You know, all those concepts put out there by the Founders that most liberals have despised and attempted to denigrate as much as possible. Most folks in Liberalland seem to appreciate and want to be more like Europe.

Conservativeland will embrace American exceptionalism and use it to very good advantage. And that's why Conservativeland should have it.

Meaningless stereotype is nothing to base a nation on, in fact, it may be the worse thing.

But that is the beauty of the divorce. To you it is meaningless stereotype. That's why you are a liberal. For me it is a partial explanation for who and what I am and why I am a conservative.

The OP already acknowledges that this huge divide cannot be bridged which is why we need the divorce. We don't ask you to love us. We just ask you to take your most beloved toys and go do your own thing and leave us to do ours. We understand that you think we'll have an absolutely horrible terrible country. But it won't be your concern as you will be building your own shining, glorious utopia of Liberalland.

Sharing the continent with an authoritarian military/corporate plutocracy would be a concern for "liberalland" , your free country would have tanks rolling through our streets in 5 years.

 

[Foxfyre]

Since we are answering questions with questions, Would it be legal to be a liberal in conservative land? Would it be legal to be a conservative in liberal land? We know the answers to these questions and that should be reason enough for anyone to reject such a scenario out of hand.

I have no problem with anybody living in Conservativeland just so long as he or she doesn't try to turn it into Liberalland. That's why we want Liberalland to have the illegals. It is mostly folks on your side who like them, who want to keep funding them, and who think it is racist to reject them or object to them. Conservatives don't want them because too many of them have no interest in becoming Americans or assimilating into the American culture. They want to retain their language, their flag, their laws, etc. etc. while benefitting from whatever they can get from America. In Liberalland that apparently would not be a problem. In Conservativeland it would be.

Does that include the ones that the Conservatives employ?

Yup. In Conservativeland we won't allow employing illegals. If we run short of labor, we'll have some kind of effective temporary work program for those who want to come here to work and then go right back home. Those who hire folks from other countries will be responsible to see that they have transportation to and from whereever they come from, that they have adequate food and housing and emergency health care if they need it. And they will be responsible to make sure their workers go home when the job has ended.

Any who don't like that will have to go to Liberalland where you guys can do it any way you want.

So deal? You take the illegals?

 

[Foxfyre]

I'd love to see you social conservatives have your own country. What's stopping you? It certainly isn't your rabid hatred.

In Conservativeland, social conservatives will be free to organize whatever sort of community they wish to have. We'll go back to our Eighteenth Century roots for such a concept. We won't, however, brook any attempt to use the federal government to legislate any social issues such as gay marriage, hate crimes, unlimited legalized abortion or banned abortion, or othrwise take away states rights. So if you want any of that stuff, I guess it will all have to go to Liberalland even if you have to take a few social conservatives in the deal.

 

[bobcollum]

I have no problem with anybody living in Conservativeland just so long as he or she doesn't try to turn it into Liberalland. That's why we want Liberalland to have the illegals. It is mostly folks on your side who like them, who want to keep funding them, and who think it is racist to reject them or object to them. Conservatives don't want them because too many of them have no interest in becoming Americans or assimilating into the American culture. They want to retain their language, their flag, their laws, etc. etc. while benefitting from whatever they can get from America. In Liberalland that apparently would not be a problem. In Conservativeland it would be.

Does that include the ones that the Conservatives employ?

Yup. In Conservativeland we won't allow employing illegals. If we run short of labor, we'll have some kind of effective temporary work program for those who want to come here to work and then go right back home. Those who hire folks from other countries will be responsible to see that they have transportation to and from whereever they come from, that they have adequate food and housing and emergency health care if they need it. And they will be responsible to make sure their workers go home when the job has ended.

Any who don't like that will have to go to Liberalland where you guys can do it any way you want.

So deal? You take the illegals?

Employing illegals isn't allowed now.

You're aware that they get hired because they're willing to work for a fraction of what Americans will work for, not because of labor shortages?

I'm interested to see how you'll frame this to make it look like the fault of Liberals, since I'm willing to bet that you feel most business owners are Conservatives.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Does that include the ones that the Conservatives employ?

Yup. In Conservativeland we won't allow employing illegals. If we run short of labor, we'll have some kind of effective temporary work program for those who want to come here to work and then go right back home. Those who hire folks from other countries will be responsible to see that they have transportation to and from whereever they come from, that they have adequate food and housing and emergency health care if they need it. And they will be responsible to make sure their workers go home when the job has ended.

Any who don't like that will have to go to Liberalland where you guys can do it any way you want.

So deal? You take the illegals?

Employing illegals isn't allowed now.

You're aware that they get hired because they're willing to work for a fraction of what Americans will work for, not because of labor shortages?

I'm interested to see how you'll frame this to make it look like the fault of Liberals, since I'm willing to bet that you feel most business owners are Conservatives.

In Rightwingistan, facts will be made illegal.

 

[Foxfyre]

Meaningless stereotype is nothing to base a nation on, in fact, it may be the worse thing.

But that is the beauty of the divorce. To you it is meaningless stereotype. That's why you are a liberal. For me it is a partial explanation for who and what I am and why I am a conservative.

The OP already acknowledges that this huge divide cannot be bridged which is why we need the divorce. We don't ask you to love us. We just ask you to take your most beloved toys and go do your own thing and leave us to do ours. We understand that you think we'll have an absolutely horrible terrible country. But it won't be your concern as you will be building your own shining, glorious utopia of Liberalland.

Sharing the continent with an authoritarian military/corporate plutocracy would be a concern for "liberalland" , your free country would have tanks rolling through our streets in 5 years.

Well that's the risk you take when you despise the military, but at least you guys won't have to put up with the tanks. Conservatism is not a militant ideology though and it is not given to unprovoked aggression. You can attempt to throw in a straw man of past American governments, but before liberals gained a strong foothold early in the 20th Century, there was zero history of any unprovoked aggression by any Americans against another country.

Remember we are basing Conservativeland on American exceptionalism for which the very basis is individual liberty. You guys leave us alone and I guarantee you we won't want anything you have and therefore will not have any reason whatsoever to bother you in any way.

 

[MuadDib]

Yes, the Founders envisioned a nation like no nation that had ever existed. The concept of natural (or God given) rights did not originate with them, but they embraced the concept. And the Constitution was built around that principle. Rather than having a monarch or authoritarian pope/church authority or dictator or feudal lords or other totalitarian system of government as existed everywhere else in the world, Americans would designate a government that would secure their rights and then leave them alone to form whatever sort of society they wished to have. It was a freedom that the world had never known before in all of recorded history and it remains unique among nations of the world today.

THAT is American exceptionalism and it is THAT which most, if not all, conservatives embrace in America now whether or not they know how to define it. It is the antithesis of modern day American liberalism.

So American exceptionalism can't exist anywhere but in Conservativeland and that is why we should have it.

Sad that acknowlegement of GOD and rights naturally conferred means Theocracy to far too many...

For too many on the Liberalland side, yes. Maybe that is why they find it so difficult to embrace a concept of American exceptionalism or even the intent of the First Amendment. And though the Founders, pretty much to a man, agreed that our unalienable rights come from God and not government, we conservatives today have our fair share of Atheists and agnostics. Still they can intellectually translate "God given rights" to "natural rights" and embrace the concept just the same.

The residents of Liberalland don't seem to have much capacity to do that.

Quite correct. Thomas Jefferson was a Deist, not a Christian, and he referenced God 4 times in the Declaration of Independence.

 

[Greenbeard]

Conservatives embrace American exceptionalism and all that entails. I've never met a liberal who also embracedi that.

You should try to meet more people.

And it is comments like yours that definitely indicates that you should go to Liberalland where such will be considered intelligent debate,. Unfortunately, there are a few who philosophically belong in Conservativeland that we will need to send over to your side because they tend to debate in the same manner. But there aren't many of them so they shouldn't be much of a problem for you.

I'm fairly certain that wherever I live, cutsey imaginary lands full of ideologues, devoid of people who don't share my opinions (you know, the kinds of people folks like yourself have likely never bothered to meet) won't be a component of any "intelligent debate."

The fact that you're mentally sending people to this or that "side" of your ideological Candyland is fucking terrifying.

 

[logical4u]

Why wouldn't statist Lefties agree to that? They could have their utopia.
Only possible thing to argue is the land.

They need the industriousness of Judeo/Christian values. It is hard to spend other people's money when "no one" is working a productive job.

 

[logical4u]

Every time I see something like this I wonder how conservatives think they can stay free in a country of their own design where those in the ruling class are unencumbered by taxation, regulation and accountability and the freely exploited working class is on its own and works for practically nothing. No social mobility, no access to medical care, crappy bible based education and no way on earth to get a fair hearing of grievances.

Please, give an example of how "your" country would operate.

 

[Foxfyre]

Does that include the ones that the Conservatives employ?

Yup. In Conservativeland we won't allow employing illegals. If we run short of labor, we'll have some kind of effective temporary work program for those who want to come here to work and then go right back home. Those who hire folks from other countries will be responsible to see that they have transportation to and from whereever they come from, that they have adequate food and housing and emergency health care if they need it. And they will be responsible to make sure their workers go home when the job has ended.

Any who don't like that will have to go to Liberalland where you guys can do it any way you want.

So deal? You take the illegals?

Employing illegals isn't allowed now.

You're aware that they get hired because they're willing to work for a fraction of what Americans will work for, not because of labor shortages?

I'm interested to see how you'll frame this to make it look like the fault of Liberals, since I'm willing to bet that you feel most business owners are Conservatives.

I know and you guys will be more than able to do that if you want. Or not if you want. Remember, you can have any sort of country you want once we arrive at an agreement on the divorce settlement. I am not blaming anybody. I'm just reciting history to lay to rest any fears you folks in Liberalland might have about us since the subject came up.

Don't you understand? I am offering you every thing--that is EVERYTHING--that you liberals have been telling us that you want all these years. I am offering you a chance to be rid of evil conservatism and everything they support and believe in and whatever screwy or unacceptable ideas or opinions they hold.

Why aren't you jumping at the chance? Look at the poll up there. The Conservatives are almost all agreeing. So far only one has not agreed so he will have to make a choice about which country he will prefer.

I'm needing some consensus from you liberals if we are going to move forward.

 

[bobcollum]

Yup. In Conservativeland we won't allow employing illegals. If we run short of labor, we'll have some kind of effective temporary work program for those who want to come here to work and then go right back home. Those who hire folks from other countries will be responsible to see that they have transportation to and from whereever they come from, that they have adequate food and housing and emergency health care if they need it. And they will be responsible to make sure their workers go home when the job has ended.

Any who don't like that will have to go to Liberalland where you guys can do it any way you want.

So deal? You take the illegals?

Employing illegals isn't allowed now.

You're aware that they get hired because they're willing to work for a fraction of what Americans will work for, not because of labor shortages?

I'm interested to see how you'll frame this to make it look like the fault of Liberals, since I'm willing to bet that you feel most business owners are Conservatives.

I know and you guys will be more than able to do that if you want. Or not if you want. Remember, you can have any sort of country you want once we arrive at an agreement on the divorce settlement. I am not blaming anybody. I'm just reciting history to lay to rest any fears you folks in Liberalland might have about us since the subject came up.

Don't you understand? I am offering you every thing--that is EVERYTHING--that you liberals have been telling us that you want all these years. I am offering you a chance to be rid of evil conservatism and everything they support and believe in and whatever screwy or unacceptable ideas or opinions they hold.

Why aren't you jumping at the chance? Look at the poll up there. The Conservatives are almost all agreeing. So far only one has not agreed so he will have to make a choice about which country he will prefer.

I'm needing some consensus from you liberals if we are going to move forward.

You keep skirting past the fact that a number of Conservatives rely on illegal labor to keep payroll down.

I'm trying to pose potential downfalls to the "plan" that you have...I think those rose-tinted glasses are too thick.

 

[Foxfyre]

Employing illegals isn't allowed now.

You're aware that they get hired because they're willing to work for a fraction of what Americans will work for, not because of labor shortages?

I'm interested to see how you'll frame this to make it look like the fault of Liberals, since I'm willing to bet that you feel most business owners are Conservatives.

I know and you guys will be more than able to do that if you want. Or not if you want. Remember, you can have any sort of country you want once we arrive at an agreement on the divorce settlement. I am not blaming anybody. I'm just reciting history to lay to rest any fears you folks in Liberalland might have about us since the subject came up.

Don't you understand? I am offering you every thing--that is EVERYTHING--that you liberals have been telling us that you want all these years. I am offering you a chance to be rid of evil conservatism and everything they support and believe in and whatever screwy or unacceptable ideas or opinions they hold.

Why aren't you jumping at the chance? Look at the poll up there. The Conservatives are almost all agreeing. So far only one has not agreed so he will have to make a choice about which country he will prefer.

I'm needing some consensus from you liberals if we are going to move forward.

You keep skirting past the fact that a number of Conservatives rely on illegal labor to keep payroll down.

I'm trying to pose potential downfalls to the "plan" that you have...I think those rose-tinted glasses are too thick.

No I'm not. I'm just not going to make this a debate on illegal aliens. I am trying to work out an amicable divorce agreement here.

It doesn't MATTER what exists now before the divorce. Yes there are people, both liberal and conservative, who break the law concerning illegals and who exploit the illegals in various ways for their own purposes.

I am proposing that we correct that situation in our divorce agreement. If we don't HAVE any illegals, it will not be a problem in Conservativeland. And if you guys take the illegals, then you can deal with them however liberals think that should be done.

So deal? You take the illegals?

 

[The T]

I know and you guys will be more than able to do that if you want. Or not if you want. Remember, you can have any sort of country you want once we arrive at an agreement on the divorce settlement. I am not blaming anybody. I'm just reciting history to lay to rest any fears you folks in Liberalland might have about us since the subject came up.

Don't you understand? I am offering you every thing--that is EVERYTHING--that you liberals have been telling us that you want all these years. I am offering you a chance to be rid of evil conservatism and everything they support and believe in and whatever screwy or unacceptable ideas or opinions they hold.

Why aren't you jumping at the chance? Look at the poll up there. The Conservatives are almost all agreeing. So far only one has not agreed so he will have to make a choice about which country he will prefer.

I'm needing some consensus from you liberals if we are going to move forward.

You keep skirting past the fact that a number of Conservatives rely on illegal labor to keep payroll down.

I'm trying to pose potential downfalls to the "plan" that you have...I think those rose-tinted glasses are too thick.

No I'm not. I'm just not going to make this a debate on illegal aliens. I am trying to work out an amicable divorce agreement here.

It doesn't MATTER what exists now before the divorce. Yes there are people, both liberal and conservative, who break the law concerning illegals and who exploit the illegals in various ways for their own purposes.

I am proposing that we correct that situation in our divorce agreement. If we don't HAVE any illegals, it will not be a problem in Conservativeland. And if you guys take the illegals, then you can deal with them however liberals think that should be done.

So deal? You take the illegals?

They may have them since it's obvious they won't follow the law in Conservativeland.

 

[bobcollum]

I know and you guys will be more than able to do that if you want. Or not if you want. Remember, you can have any sort of country you want once we arrive at an agreement on the divorce settlement. I am not blaming anybody. I'm just reciting history to lay to rest any fears you folks in Liberalland might have about us since the subject came up.

Don't you understand? I am offering you every thing--that is EVERYTHING--that you liberals have been telling us that you want all these years. I am offering you a chance to be rid of evil conservatism and everything they support and believe in and whatever screwy or unacceptable ideas or opinions they hold.

Why aren't you jumping at the chance? Look at the poll up there. The Conservatives are almost all agreeing. So far only one has not agreed so he will have to make a choice about which country he will prefer.

I'm needing some consensus from you liberals if we are going to move forward.

You keep skirting past the fact that a number of Conservatives rely on illegal labor to keep payroll down.

I'm trying to pose potential downfalls to the "plan" that you have...I think those rose-tinted glasses are too thick.

No I'm not. I'm just not going to make this a debate on illegal aliens. I am trying to work out an amicable divorce agreement here.

It doesn't MATTER what exists now before the divorce. Yes there are people, both liberal and conservative, who break the law concerning illegals and who exploit the illegals in various ways for their own purposes.

I am proposing that we correct that situation in our divorce agreement. If we don't HAVE any illegals, it will not be a problem in Conservativeland. And if you guys take the illegals, then you can deal with them however liberals think that should be done.

So deal? You take the illegals?

It's not really about the illegal aliens as much as it's about the Conservatives that frequently use them for labor, combined with your statements that make it sound like Conservatives have absolutely no use for them, which obviously isn't true.

Please go on about the statement in bold. Why won't that be a problem for the Conservatives that use them for cheap labor?

 

[Foxfyre]

You keep skirting past the fact that a number of Conservatives rely on illegal labor to keep payroll down.

I'm trying to pose potential downfalls to the "plan" that you have...I think those rose-tinted glasses are too thick.

No I'm not. I'm just not going to make this a debate on illegal aliens. I am trying to work out an amicable divorce agreement here.

It doesn't MATTER what exists now before the divorce. Yes there are people, both liberal and conservative, who break the law concerning illegals and who exploit the illegals in various ways for their own purposes.

I am proposing that we correct that situation in our divorce agreement. If we don't HAVE any illegals, it will not be a problem in Conservativeland. And if you guys take the illegals, then you can deal with them however liberals think that should be done.

So deal? You take the illegals?

They may have them since it's obvious they won't follow the law in Conservativeland.

Yes, it's the best of both worlds. We can establish whatever immigration laws are most advantageous for Conservativeland and, short of violating anybody's unalienable rights, we will be free to enforce the law however we need to enforce it without having to endure Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and others hollering "RACISM" or dealing with other political correctness issues. And Al and Jesse and others like them will be happily living in Liberalland and I'm sure will be more than happy to help build a utopian paradise for illegals and all sorts of folks there.

And whatever problems might exist in one country won't be any kind of problem for the other.