Debt Ceiling Increase or Spending Cuts First?

[Geaux4it]

But you 1) called not raising the debt ceiling a crisis, and 2) that you were not willing to accept any outcome which results in a crisis.

So how can you accept not raising the debt ceiling but also not accept any outcome that results in a crisis?

Another false dilemma argument. This is also a red herring. I didn't ask you to critique my grammar, Carbine. No, I called RAISING IT a crisis. Since it will result in further so-labeled "crises" down the road. Sigh, just when I had hope for you.

Raising it is not the crisis. Do you understand the debt ceiling is the money Congress has already agreed to spend?

I know conservatives like the bullshit "household budget" analogies (even though government or even business is nothing like a household budget) so how's this...

Would you say "I'm not paying my heating bill until you agree to stop buying clothes."?

Raising the debt limit is so the government can borrow more money instead of paying off the debt it has incurred

-Geaux

 

[Luddly Neddite]

If you truly believe that spending cuts are of greater importance than raising the debt limit, then lobby your Reps to let the debt limit go bye bye. You will then get your spending cuts.

It should work out wonderfully. Especially if you are already a societal leech with no job.

You mean like the elderly, or a child of a poor person or homeless or disabled vet .....

 

[candycorn]

And neither do you. Negged.

You should put that on your resume..."Can leave negative rep on an obscure message board". Your Monster.com profile (that is a board people use to look for jobs) must be a cartoon.

You should just shut your trap. Zip it. You've done nothing but try to antagonize me. I know your mental fortitude is severely lacking, but please, go be stupid somewhere else.

Always fun to rattle the cage of the stupid. That is on my resume.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Another false dilemma argument. This is also a red herring. I didn't ask you to critique my grammar, Carbine. No, I called RAISING IT a crisis. Since it will result in further so-labeled "crises" down the road. Sigh, just when I had hope for you.

Raising it is not the crisis. Do you understand the debt ceiling is the money Congress has already agreed to spend?

I know conservatives like the bullshit "household budget" analogies (even though government or even business is nothing like a household budget) so how's this...

Would you say "I'm not paying my heating bill until you agree to stop buying clothes."?

Raising the debt limit is so the government can borrow more money instead of paying off the debt it has incurred

-Geaux

Hence the crisis.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I consider raising the debt ceiling to be irresponsible. It is a means to allow more borrowing and thus more spending without any fiscal restraint whatsoever.

But you 1) called not raising the debt ceiling a crisis, and 2) that you were not willing to accept any outcome which results in a crisis.

So how can you accept not raising the debt ceiling but also not accept any outcome that results in a crisis?

Another false dilemma argument. This is also a red herring. I didn't ask you to critique my grammar, Carbine. No, I called RAISING IT a crisis. Since it will result in further so-labeled "crises" down the road. That is unacceptable, Carbine. Sigh, just when I had hope for you.

You had hope for him? That is so cool! Please say you have hope for me too! Please!

 

[TemplarKormac]

You should put that on your resume..."Can leave negative rep on an obscure message board". Your Monster.com profile (that is a board people use to look for jobs) must be a cartoon.

You should just shut your trap. Zip it. You've done nothing but try to antagonize me. I know your mental fortitude is severely lacking, but please, go be stupid somewhere else.

Always fun to rattle the cage of the stupid. That is on my resume.

Yes. It is known as being a troll. Lol.

 

[Geaux4it]

You should put that on your resume..."Can leave negative rep on an obscure message board". Your Monster.com profile (that is a board people use to look for jobs) must be a cartoon.

You should just shut your trap. Zip it. You've done nothing but try to antagonize me. I know your mental fortitude is severely lacking, but please, go be stupid somewhere else.

Always fun to rattle the cage of the stupid. That is on my resume.

No wonder you appear so flustered all the time. You must be rattling your own cage.

-Geaux

 

[eagle1462010]

Do people on here actually look at the facts and figures or just regurgitate rubbish they've heard from the media!

People often confuse national debt and deficit, the actual budget deficit of the USA has fallen but it will still add to the national debt until you reach a balanced budget.

Theres no debate on whats best for a country,even Liberals like myself would still like to see balanced budgets and even surpluses, something put aside for a rainy day. But its how you get to that point and who pays.

The only way you get to a balanced budget is when the economy is strong, increasing tax receipts, less welfare benefits. To try and simply cut your way to that is self-defeating in the current economy as too much money comes out of that, it needs to be done slowly or delayed.

Under the current administration their policies have caused a weak recovery, even after spending Trillions. They have increased taxation at a time when we need Private Investment to bring back jobs. Instead one of their major indicators is Part time employment. This being the Gov't being the problem and not the solution. It is the Gov't stopping our recovery due to anti business stances.

The GOP want cuts and no tax increases, the Dems want less cuts and increasing taxes on the richer percentage. If you look at historical precedent and economies around the world, the most successful have a strong middle class underpinning a good broad based economy.

Historically, increasing taxes when you need investment DOESN'T WORK. Private business want incentives to spend their money to create jobs. The Dems have done the opposite and Private Business isn't buying it. Thus we are stuck in the rut of employment not increasing. The ACA is causing businesses to go Part Time. You push the Liberal rhetoric, claiming we need to negotiate, but Obama and the Dems have stated their way or the highway. Sluggish economic results after Trillions spent with no end in sight.

There is however a reason why we still see other countries continuing to buy US debt, even allowing for your large national debt and deficits the economy is still No 1 in the world, the USA will always be able to service its debt, there is a lot of hysteria in the USA media and especially amongst the TP that the sky is going to fall in and the end of the USA economy is close, this to be honest is nonsense.

Look at the historical value of the dollar and get back with me. Deflating the dollar hurts all Americans. In the G8 and G20 summits China and Japan stated that the U.S. is starting a Currency War. Purposely deflating the value of the Dollar against their currencies. Our unfunded liabilities are coming soon, which will cause our debt to accelerate. Thus causing more borrowing and more interest payments. Which is a path to ruin.

People need to stop this hysteria, the situation is nothing like is being portrayed, yes theres a debt problem but this has been evident for decades, the main concern for all politicians in the USA should be growth and jobs nothing else because these will give the foundation to get to that balanced budget and address the debt.

Sadly this current Washington debacle just trashes consumer and business confidence so one step forward and two steps back continues to be a yearly thing played out in Congress. Until the GOP either lose the House or come to their senses then this drag on growth will remain, indeed at this point the world just couldn't care less who is in charge so long as its just one party, that seems the only way to stop these continued Washington dramas.

The current crisis was CAUSED BY GOV'T. Our Recovery is DELAYED BY GOV'T. So spare me the BS, that GOV'T IS THE ANSWER WHEN THEY CAUSED THE PROBLEMS.

 

[LoneLaugher]

If you truly believe that spending cuts are of greater importance than raising the debt limit, then lobby your Reps to let the debt limit go bye bye. You will then get your spending cuts.

It should work out wonderfully. Especially if you are already a societal leech with no job.

You mean like the elderly, or a child of a poor person or homeless or disabled vet .....

No...I mean like an unemployed 26 year old Georgian who refuses to get a job.

 

[candycorn]

But you 1) called not raising the debt ceiling a crisis, and 2) that you were not willing to accept any outcome which results in a crisis.

So how can you accept not raising the debt ceiling but also not accept any outcome that results in a crisis?

Another false dilemma argument. This is also a red herring. I didn't ask you to critique my grammar, Carbine. No, I called RAISING IT a crisis. Since it will result in further so-labeled "crises" down the road. Sigh, just when I had hope for you.

Raising it is not the crisis. Do you understand the debt ceiling is the money Congress has already agreed to spend?

I know conservatives like the bullshit "household budget" analogies (even though government or even business is nothing like a household budget) so how's this...

Would you say "I'm not paying my heating bill until you agree to stop buying clothes."?

Apparently, the GOP no longer recognizes agreements made anywhere from 200+ years up to 18 seconds ago. If the current mood of the House is not in sympatico with what it wants feels like spending; there is nothing to ensure they will spend it.

 

[Geaux4it]

Obama said if he didn't right the ship after 4 years he was a one term POTUS. He underestimated the stupidity of the American voter.

So now he says the recession was much worse than anticipated. So, how many years will it take Mr. President? You could be the man for the next decade and still would be making excuses why socialism is not working in the United States

-Geaux

 

[LoneLaugher]

You should just shut your trap. Zip it. You've done nothing but try to antagonize me. I know your mental fortitude is severely lacking, but please, go be stupid somewhere else.

Always fun to rattle the cage of the stupid. That is on my resume.

Yes. It is known as being a troll. Lol.

What happened to our discussion on Friedman and the 70's? Did you ever google that thing about the country he helped fuck over?

 

[candycorn]

You should just shut your trap. Zip it. You've done nothing but try to antagonize me. I know your mental fortitude is severely lacking, but please, go be stupid somewhere else.

Always fun to rattle the cage of the stupid. That is on my resume.

Yes. It is known as being a troll. Lol.

An incredibly fun troll to be sure...LOL

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Another false dilemma argument. This is also a red herring. I didn't ask you to critique my grammar, Carbine. No, I called RAISING IT a crisis. Since it will result in further so-labeled "crises" down the road. Sigh, just when I had hope for you.

Raising it is not the crisis. Do you understand the debt ceiling is the money Congress has already agreed to spend?

I know conservatives like the bullshit "household budget" analogies (even though government or even business is nothing like a household budget) so how's this...

Would you say "I'm not paying my heating bill until you agree to stop buying clothes."?

Raising the debt limit is so the government can borrow more money instead of paying off the debt it has incurred

-Geaux

Raising the debt limit is so congress can pay the debt it has already voted to incur.

Raising the debt limit is NOT "so the government can borrow more money".

Debt Limit

The debt limit is the total amount of money that the United States government is authorized to borrow to meet its existing legal obligations, including Social Security and Medicare benefits, military salaries, interest on the national debt, tax refunds, and other payments. The debt limit does not authorize new spending commitments. It simply allows the government to finance existing legal obligations that Congresses and presidents of both parties have made in the past.

Debt ceiling definition from CNBC

The debt ceiling is a cap set by Congress on how much the federal government can borrow to pay its debts.

 

[TemplarKormac]

But you 1) called not raising the debt ceiling a crisis, and 2) that you were not willing to accept any outcome which results in a crisis.

So how can you accept not raising the debt ceiling but also not accept any outcome that results in a crisis?

Another false dilemma argument. This is also a red herring. I didn't ask you to critique my grammar, Carbine. No, I called RAISING IT a crisis. Since it will result in further so-labeled "crises" down the road. Sigh, just when I had hope for you.

Raising it is not the crisis. Do you understand the debt ceiling is the money Congress has already agreed to spend?

I know conservatives like the bullshit "household budget" analogies (even though government or even business is nothing like a household budget) so how's this...

Would you say "I'm not paying my heating bill until you agree to stop buying clothes."?

That makes no sense!

So, how would you pay the heating bill or buy clothing when the money you used to pay for them is borrowed? Lets say you continue borrowing money without paying a dime on it. Guess what, when the debtee comes looking for his money, you are A) unable to pay the debt, B) if you do, you'll be broke, and C) since you're broke, you can no longer buy clothing or pay for the heating bill.

 

[nicolondon]

Do people on here actually look at the facts and figures or just regurgitate rubbish they've heard from the media!

People often confuse national debt and deficit, the actual budget deficit of the USA has fallen but it will still add to the national debt until you reach a balanced budget.

Theres no debate on whats best for a country,even Liberals like myself would still like to see balanced budgets and even surpluses, something put aside for a rainy day. But its how you get to that point and who pays.

The only way you get to a balanced budget is when the economy is strong, increasing tax receipts, less welfare benefits. To try and simply cut your way to that is self-defeating in the current economy as too much money comes out of that, it needs to be done slowly or delayed.

The GOP want cuts and no tax increases, the Dems want less cuts and increasing taxes on the richer percentage. If you look at historical precedent and economies around the world, the most successful have a strong middle class underpinning a good broad based economy.

There is however a reason why we still see other countries continuing to buy US debt, even allowing for your large national debt and deficits the economy is still No 1 in the world, the USA will always be able to service its debt, there is a lot of hysteria in the USA media and especially amongst the TP that the sky is going to fall in and the end of the USA economy is close, this to be honest is nonsense.

People need to stop this hysteria, the situation is nothing like is being portrayed, yes theres a debt problem but this has been evident for decades, the main concern for all politicians in the USA should be growth and jobs nothing else because these will give the foundation to get to that balanced budget and address the debt.

Sadly this current Washington debacle just trashes consumer and business confidence so one step forward and two steps back continues to be a yearly thing played out in Congress. Until the GOP either lose the House or come to their senses then this drag on growth will remain, indeed at this point the world just couldn't care less who is in charge so long as its just one party, that seems the only way to stop these continued Washington dramas.

you make some valid points. the current impasse in DC is because there are two ideas on how to attack the problem, that coupled with one side wanting to force ACA and the other wanting to slow it down and try to fix it.

But thats the way our govt is supposed to work, checks and balances, compromise, debate, discussion, openness.

the current administration has chosen to rule by dictate and innuendo rather than allow the legislative process to proceed as it should.

I think even you would agree that whatever the good intentions of the founders of your constitution they never envisaged this type of division between both parties. I do understand that this was done to stop a dictatorship and abuse of power. Lets say for arguments sake that the TP didn't exist, I suspect we would already have seen some agreement on the way forward.

In terms of the ACA there maybe problems with this, I'm sure even Obama would think there are tweeks that could be done to improve it but without the Individual Mandate the whole law crashes because you need that pool of money.

If the ACA is so bad then this would be the time that it would become evident, if the whole thing turns into a nightmare over the next year then the GOP can use this in your mid terms. The GOP I think are a bit worried because regardless of how much they hate this law what if it grows in popularity what do they do then?

In a sense they gambled on a foolhardy attempt to defund or delay the law, the problem for the GOP is that there are parts of the ACA which even the GOP voters like, coverage for pre-existing conditions and children on their parents policy till 26. I would say someone would have to be mad not to like those.

In terms of messaging going into your mid-terms the Dems can say okay the laws not perfect but there are some things that really help people, GOP whats your alternative plan? and this is where the GOP have failed badly, if you give people a decent alternative they might actually like it. It's not enough to just say something is rubbish, people want to see what you have to offer.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Obama said if he didn't right the ship after 4 years he was a one term POTUS. He underestimated the stupidity of the American voter.

So now he says the recession was much worse than anticipated. So, how many years will it take Mr. President? You could be the man for the next decade and still would be making excuses why socialism is not working in the United States

-Geaux

Bush and his dick of a veep did much more damage than a lot of people knew.

Your avatar is stupid.

After you look up the definition of "debt limit", why don't you learn what "commie" really means.

 

[Geaux4it]

Raising it is not the crisis. Do you understand the debt ceiling is the money Congress has already agreed to spend?

I know conservatives like the bullshit "household budget" analogies (even though government or even business is nothing like a household budget) so how's this...

Would you say "I'm not paying my heating bill until you agree to stop buying clothes."?

Raising the debt limit is so the government can borrow more money instead of paying off the debt it has incurred

-Geaux

Raising the debt limit is so congress can pay the debt it has already voted to incur.

Raising the debt limit is NOT "so the government can borrow more money".

Debt Limit

The debt limit is the total amount of money that the United States government is authorized to borrow to meet its existing legal obligations, including Social Security and Medicare benefits, military salaries, interest on the national debt, tax refunds, and other payments. The debt limit does not authorize new spending commitments. It simply allows the government to finance existing legal obligations that Congresses and presidents of both parties have made in the past.

Debt ceiling definition from CNBC

The debt ceiling is a cap set by Congress on how much the federal government can borrow to pay its debts.

What Is the Debt Limit?
The United States debt limit, or debt ceiling, is the statutorily defined amount of debt the U.S. Treasury can issue, either by borrowing from the public or issuing an intragovernmental receipt to special accounts, such as the Social Security or Medicare trust funds.[1]

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Debt Ceiling Crisis: World Finance Officials Focus On Global Risks

World finance officials pledged on Saturday to deal with new risks to the global recovery while they kept up pressure on the United States to address the biggest threat of all — a market-rattling default on U.S. debt.

The International Monetary Fund's policy committee said the United States needed to take "urgent action" to address the budget impasse that has blocked approval of legislation to increase the government's borrowing limit before a fast-approaching Thursday deadline.

U.S. Treasury Secretary Jacob Lew, who shuttled between the global finance talks and negotiations with Congress over the debt ceiling, has warned that he will exhaust his borrowing authority Thursday and the government will face the prospect of defaulting on its debt unless Congress raises the current $16.7 trillion borrowing limit....

Global finance officials were nervously monitoring those talks during their three days of discussions, held around the annual meetings of the 188-nation IMF and its sister lending agency, the World Bank.

"I think it is unthinkable that an agreement won't be found," Mario Draghi, head of the European Central Bank, told reporters Saturday, expressing the hope that a resolution could be found soon.

"If this situation were to last a long time, it would be very negative for the U.S. economy and the world economy and could certain harm the recovery."

Amazingly, many on the right don't seem to understand or care about the damage it could do to us as well as the rest of the world.

Many seem to think we are the only people on this planet.

 

[Geaux4it]

Debt Ceiling Crisis: World Finance Officials Focus On Global Risks

World finance officials pledged on Saturday to deal with new risks to the global recovery while they kept up pressure on the United States to address the biggest threat of all — a market-rattling default on U.S. debt.

The International Monetary Fund's policy committee said the United States needed to take "urgent action" to address the budget impasse that has blocked approval of legislation to increase the government's borrowing limit before a fast-approaching Thursday deadline.

U.S. Treasury Secretary Jacob Lew, who shuttled between the global finance talks and negotiations with Congress over the debt ceiling, has warned that he will exhaust his borrowing authority Thursday and the government will face the prospect of defaulting on its debt unless Congress raises the current $16.7 trillion borrowing limit....

Global finance officials were nervously monitoring those talks during their three days of discussions, held around the annual meetings of the 188-nation IMF and its sister lending agency, the World Bank.

"I think it is unthinkable that an agreement won't be found," Mario Draghi, head of the European Central Bank, told reporters Saturday, expressing the hope that a resolution could be found soon.

"If this situation were to last a long time, it would be very negative for the U.S. economy and the world economy and could certain harm the recovery."

Amazingly, many on the right don't seem to understand or care about the damage it could do to us as well as the rest of the world.

Many seem to think we are the only people on this planet.

Let's find out

-Geaux