Debt Ceiling Increase or Spending Cuts First?

[Seawytch]

Another false dilemma argument. This is also a red herring. I didn't ask you to critique my grammar, Carbine. No, I called RAISING IT a crisis. Since it will result in further so-labeled "crises" down the road. Sigh, just when I had hope for you.

Raising it is not the crisis. Do you understand the debt ceiling is the money Congress has already agreed to spend?

I know conservatives like the bullshit "household budget" analogies (even though government or even business is nothing like a household budget) so how's this...

Would you say "I'm not paying my heating bill until you agree to stop buying clothes."?

That makes no sense!

So, how would you pay the heating bill or buy clothing when the money you used to pay for them is borrowed? Lets say you continue borrowing money without paying a dime on it. Guess what, when the debtee comes looking for his money, you are A) unable to pay the debt, B) if you do, you'll be broke, and C) since you're broke, you can no longer buy clothing or pay for the heating bill.

We're not broke. The US is not broke. We are still one of the wealthiest nation in the world.

Again for the cheap seats...the debt ceiling is for money already spent. It's not like your personal fucking credit card limit.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Raising the debt limit is so the government can borrow more money instead of paying off the debt it has incurred

-Geaux

Raising the debt limit is so congress can pay the debt it has already voted to incur.

Raising the debt limit is NOT "so the government can borrow more money".

Debt Limit



Debt ceiling definition from CNBC

The debt ceiling is a cap set by Congress on how much the federal government can borrow to pay its debts.

What Is the Debt Limit?
The United States debt limit, or debt ceiling, is the statutorily defined amount of debt the U.S. Treasury can issue, either by borrowing from the public or issuing an intragovernmental receipt to special accounts, such as the Social Security or Medicare trust funds.[1]

What?
No link?
And, where's the rest of the quote?

What you have posted is the source, not the reason.

There have been several threads and a gazillion posts - all trying to get dumb rw's to understand the very simple and basic fact that congress voted to borrow the money and now they have to make good on their debt.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Debt Ceiling Crisis: World Finance Officials Focus On Global Risks

World finance officials pledged on Saturday to deal with new risks to the global recovery while they kept up pressure on the United States to address the biggest threat of all — a market-rattling default on U.S. debt.

The International Monetary Fund's policy committee said the United States needed to take "urgent action" to address the budget impasse that has blocked approval of legislation to increase the government's borrowing limit before a fast-approaching Thursday deadline.

U.S. Treasury Secretary Jacob Lew, who shuttled between the global finance talks and negotiations with Congress over the debt ceiling, has warned that he will exhaust his borrowing authority Thursday and the government will face the prospect of defaulting on its debt unless Congress raises the current $16.7 trillion borrowing limit....

Global finance officials were nervously monitoring those talks during their three days of discussions, held around the annual meetings of the 188-nation IMF and its sister lending agency, the World Bank.

"I think it is unthinkable that an agreement won't be found," Mario Draghi, head of the European Central Bank, told reporters Saturday, expressing the hope that a resolution could be found soon.

"If this situation were to last a long time, it would be very negative for the U.S. economy and the world economy and could certain harm the recovery."

Amazingly, many on the right don't seem to understand or care about the damage it could do to us as well as the rest of the world.

Many seem to think we are the only people on this planet.

Let's find out

-Geaux

That's okay for stupid rw's to spout. Its nothing but brainless hot air.

More important is that some very stupid and very reckless tee potty congress members who want to see this country fail and will do anything they can to effect that failure.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I consider raising the debt ceiling to be irresponsible. It is a means to allow more borrowing and thus more spending without any fiscal restraint whatsoever.

But you 1) called not raising the debt ceiling a crisis, and 2) that you were not willing to accept any outcome which results in a crisis.

So how can you accept not raising the debt ceiling but also not accept any outcome that results in a crisis?

Another false dilemma argument. This is also a red herring. I didn't ask you to critique my grammar, Carbine. No, I called RAISING IT a crisis. Since it will result in further so-labeled "crises" down the road. That is unacceptable, Carbine. Sigh, just when I had hope for you.

So now you wish to say that when you said:

"Given our enormous spending problem and our looming debt ceiling crisis..."

the crisis you were referring to was the one that would be created if we did in fact raise the debt ceiling?

That is the crisis you find unacceptable?

 

[Geaux4it]

Raising the debt limit is so congress can pay the debt it has already voted to incur.

Raising the debt limit is NOT "so the government can borrow more money".

Debt Limit



Debt ceiling definition from CNBC

What Is the Debt Limit?
The United States debt limit, or debt ceiling, is the statutorily defined amount of debt the U.S. Treasury can issue, either by borrowing from the public or issuing an intragovernmental receipt to special accounts, such as the Social Security or Medicare trust funds.[1]

What?
No link?
And, where's the rest of the quote?

What you have posted is the source, not the reason.

There have been several threads and a gazillion posts - all trying to get dumb rw's to understand the very simple and basic fact that congress voted to borrow the money and now they have to make good on their debt.

The congress at times votes on things they don't follow through on.

BTW- The government has no contractual or legal obligation to pay Social Security. Democrat Congressman Jim Cooper (D-Tenn.) provides comments here

Democrat Congressman: Gov't Has No Contractual Obligation to Pay Social Security Benefits | CNS News

(CNSNews.com) – Democrat Rep. Jim Cooper (D-Tenn.) said that most Americans do not understand that federal entitlements are not “bank account” programs that hold their money, adding that Social Security is not even a legal guarantee.

“Are these vested benefits? Are these contractual benefits?" Cooper asked of Social Security benefits. "Well, it turns out they’re not. Legally, they’re not even promises. They’re scheduled benefits and most Americans are not even aware of that.”

 

[NYcarbineer]

quit making promises to pay for things

that the government does not have the money for

every spending bill needs to have a legit funding source

or it dies on the floor

That was how PAYGO worked, or was supposed to work. Recall that it was Bush and the GOP who let PAYGO lapse,

and in fact, much of what Bush and the GOP did that added so much to our deficits and debt could not have been done under PAYGO.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Republicans are still acting as if raising the debt limit is something that the President wants but they don't.

Here is today's TV talking point.

The Dem's have given the GOP a way out by pretending to ask for concessions regarding sequester spending. I say pretend...because they already agreed to the funding levels that included the sequester.

By pretending to ask for some increases in spending, they give the GOP something to say "no" to. Now, when they pass a clean CR and raise the debt limit in a day or so, they can say that they held firm on the sequester cuts.

In the end, the GOP gets nothing for using the nation's economic health as a fucking weapon. As it should be.

 

[Vox]

We have a huge spending problem - so cuts first

 

[LoneLaugher]

But you 1) called not raising the debt ceiling a crisis, and 2) that you were not willing to accept any outcome which results in a crisis.

So how can you accept not raising the debt ceiling but also not accept any outcome that results in a crisis?

Another false dilemma argument. This is also a red herring. I didn't ask you to critique my grammar, Carbine. No, I called RAISING IT a crisis. Since it will result in further so-labeled "crises" down the road. That is unacceptable, Carbine. Sigh, just when I had hope for you.

So now you wish to say that when you said:

"Given our enormous spending problem and our looming debt ceiling crisis..."

the crisis you were referring to was the one that would be created if we did in fact raise the debt ceiling?

That is the crisis you find unacceptable?

Well, duh! Wasn't it obvious?

 

[NYcarbineer]

What Is the Debt Limit?
The United States debt limit, or debt ceiling, is the statutorily defined amount of debt the U.S. Treasury can issue, either by borrowing from the public or issuing an intragovernmental receipt to special accounts, such as the Social Security or Medicare trust funds.[1]

What?
No link?
And, where's the rest of the quote?

What you have posted is the source, not the reason.

There have been several threads and a gazillion posts - all trying to get dumb rw's to understand the very simple and basic fact that congress voted to borrow the money and now they have to make good on their debt.

The congress at times votes on things they don't follow through on.

BTW- The government has no contractual or legal obligation to pay Social Security. Democrat Congressman Jim Cooper (D-Tenn.) provides comments here

Democrat Congressman: Gov't Has No Contractual Obligation to Pay Social Security Benefits | CNS News

(CNSNews.com) – Democrat Rep. Jim Cooper (D-Tenn.) said that most Americans do not understand that federal entitlements are not “bank account” programs that hold their money, adding that Social Security is not even a legal guarantee.

“Are these vested benefits? Are these contractual benefits?" Cooper asked of Social Security benefits. "Well, it turns out they’re not. Legally, they’re not even promises. They’re scheduled benefits and most Americans are not even aware of that.”

You would have us believe that Social Security has no claim on the payroll taxes that were paid into Social Security.

lol, I want a full list of the politicians who are willing to put that in their campaign platform.

 

[TemplarKormac]

But you 1) called not raising the debt ceiling a crisis, and 2) that you were not willing to accept any outcome which results in a crisis.

So how can you accept not raising the debt ceiling but also not accept any outcome that results in a crisis?

Another false dilemma argument. This is also a red herring. I didn't ask you to critique my grammar, Carbine. No, I called RAISING IT a crisis. Since it will result in further so-labeled "crises" down the road. That is unacceptable, Carbine. Sigh, just when I had hope for you.

So now you wish to say that when you said:

"Given our enormous spending problem and our looming debt ceiling crisis..."

the crisis you were referring to was the one that would be created if we did in fact raise the debt ceiling?

That is the crisis you find unacceptable?

Over analytical. Do you not understand that sometimes it is better to use the more common vernacular to lure readers into reading the OP? By the way did you vote on the poll? I have explained to you in many different ways what I deem a "crisis" to be. If you choose to remain as thick headed as you are, that's something you will have to reconcile on your own.

 

[boedicca]

 

[NYcarbineer]

Another false dilemma argument. This is also a red herring. I didn't ask you to critique my grammar, Carbine. No, I called RAISING IT a crisis. Since it will result in further so-labeled "crises" down the road. That is unacceptable, Carbine. Sigh, just when I had hope for you.

So now you wish to say that when you said:

"Given our enormous spending problem and our looming debt ceiling crisis..."

the crisis you were referring to was the one that would be created if we did in fact raise the debt ceiling?

That is the crisis you find unacceptable?

Over analytical. Do you not understand that sometimes it is better to use the more common vernacular to lure readers into reading the OP? By the way did you vote on the poll? I have explained to you in many different ways what I deem a "crisis" to be. If you choose to remain as thick headed as you are, that's something you will have to reconcile on your own.

Maybe for clarity's sake, not to mention sanity's sake, you should tell us,

in plain English,

Are you fer it, or agin it?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

We have a huge spending problem - so cuts first

The right is so quick to toss this out but they never say that what they want to cut is NOT subsidies to big oil or our already hugely bloated military or any of the other things we really don't need.

Nope. What the right says is, take it from those have the least so we can build more tanks even though we will never even use the ones we have.

Nor do they admit how much Obama has already cut while the Rs are still voting to spend more AND fighting against paying for what they spend.

 

[Geaux4it]

What?
No link?
And, where's the rest of the quote?

What you have posted is the source, not the reason.

There have been several threads and a gazillion posts - all trying to get dumb rw's to understand the very simple and basic fact that congress voted to borrow the money and now they have to make good on their debt.

The congress at times votes on things they don't follow through on.

BTW- The government has no contractual or legal obligation to pay Social Security. Democrat Congressman Jim Cooper (D-Tenn.) provides comments here

Democrat Congressman: Gov't Has No Contractual Obligation to Pay Social Security Benefits | CNS News

(CNSNews.com) – Democrat Rep. Jim Cooper (D-Tenn.) said that most Americans do not understand that federal entitlements are not “bank account” programs that hold their money, adding that Social Security is not even a legal guarantee.

“Are these vested benefits? Are these contractual benefits?" Cooper asked of Social Security benefits. "Well, it turns out they’re not. Legally, they’re not even promises. They’re scheduled benefits and most Americans are not even aware of that.”

You would have us believe that Social Security has no claim on the payroll taxes that were paid into Social Security.

lol, I want a full list of the politicians who are willing to put that in their campaign platform.

That is not the debate. I was simply replying to misinformation that the Government is legally bound to pay Social Security.

According the the Democrat Congressman from Tennessee, they are not

-Geaux

 

[NYcarbineer]

Another false dilemma argument. This is also a red herring. I didn't ask you to critique my grammar, Carbine. No, I called RAISING IT a crisis. Since it will result in further so-labeled "crises" down the road. That is unacceptable, Carbine. Sigh, just when I had hope for you.

So now you wish to say that when you said:

"Given our enormous spending problem and our looming debt ceiling crisis..."

the crisis you were referring to was the one that would be created if we did in fact raise the debt ceiling?

That is the crisis you find unacceptable?

Over analytical. Do you not understand that sometimes it is better to use the more common vernacular to lure readers into reading the OP? By the way did you vote on the poll? I have explained to you in many different ways what I deem a "crisis" to be. If you choose to remain as thick headed as you are, that's something you will have to reconcile on your own.

So you deny what I bolded above, but you had just confirmed exactly what I said in this exchange below:

Raising the debt limit is so the government can borrow more money instead of paying off the debt it has incurred

-Geaux

Your reply:

Hence the crisis.

 

[TemplarKormac]

So now you wish to say that when you said:

"Given our enormous spending problem and our looming debt ceiling crisis..."

the crisis you were referring to was the one that would be created if we did in fact raise the debt ceiling?

That is the crisis you find unacceptable?

Over analytical. Do you not understand that sometimes it is better to use the more common vernacular to lure readers into reading the OP? By the way did you vote on the poll? I have explained to you in many different ways what I deem a "crisis" to be. If you choose to remain as thick headed as you are, that's something you will have to reconcile on your own.

Maybe for clarity's sake, not to mention sanity's sake, you should tell us,

in plain English,

Are you fer it, or agin it?

Setting your snideness aside, an easy circumvention of the debt ceiling would be to abolish it. Have a balanced budget amendment added to the constitution. That if our debt reaches a certain level, automatic and severe cuts would be triggered across the board unless or until proper action is taken by Congress and The President. This Amendment would remain as is, and would require a Constitutional Convention to be changed.

 

[TemplarKormac]

So now you wish to say that when you said:

"Given our enormous spending problem and our looming debt ceiling crisis..."

the crisis you were referring to was the one that would be created if we did in fact raise the debt ceiling?

That is the crisis you find unacceptable?

Over analytical. Do you not understand that sometimes it is better to use the more common vernacular to lure readers into reading the OP? By the way did you vote on the poll? I have explained to you in many different ways what I deem a "crisis" to be. If you choose to remain as thick headed as you are, that's something you will have to reconcile on your own.

So you deny what I bolded above, but you had just confirmed exactly what I said in this exchange below:

Raising the debt limit is so the government can borrow more money instead of paying off the debt it has incurred

-Geaux

Your reply:

Hence the crisis.

Yes, a crisis of irresponsibility and self restraint. Your arrogance has become your argument. You further increase the prospect of an economic crisis by continuing to borrow more and more money. Have you voted on my poll?

 

[NYcarbineer]

The congress at times votes on things they don't follow through on.

BTW- The government has no contractual or legal obligation to pay Social Security. Democrat Congressman Jim Cooper (D-Tenn.) provides comments here

Democrat Congressman: Gov't Has No Contractual Obligation to Pay Social Security Benefits | CNS News

(CNSNews.com) – Democrat Rep. Jim Cooper (D-Tenn.) said that most Americans do not understand that federal entitlements are not “bank account” programs that hold their money, adding that Social Security is not even a legal guarantee.

“Are these vested benefits? Are these contractual benefits?" Cooper asked of Social Security benefits. "Well, it turns out they’re not. Legally, they’re not even promises. They’re scheduled benefits and most Americans are not even aware of that.”

You would have us believe that Social Security has no claim on the payroll taxes that were paid into Social Security.

lol, I want a full list of the politicians who are willing to put that in their campaign platform.

That is not the debate. I was simply replying to misinformation that the Government is legally bound to pay Social Security.

According the the Democrat Congressman from Tennessee, they are not

-Geaux

If my eligibility to receive Social Security is supported by federal law, how can it not be a legal requirement of the federal government to pay my SS?

 

[Geaux4it]

You would have us believe that Social Security has no claim on the payroll taxes that were paid into Social Security.

lol, I want a full list of the politicians who are willing to put that in their campaign platform.

That is not the debate. I was simply replying to misinformation that the Government is legally bound to pay Social Security.

According the the Democrat Congressman from Tennessee, they are not

-Geaux

If my eligibility to receive Social Security is supported by federal law, how can it not be a legal requirement of the federal government to pay my SS?

You would have to take that up with the Democrat lawmaker who was interviewed

-Geaux