Democracy at Work: A Cure for Capitalism

[Richard-H]

This is your dogma...For every example supporting your dogma I can find just as many supporting mine. If you were honest you would agree this example provided by you would be a fine "absolute" example of how things work in a more perfect world, but then reality sets in for the majority and it is very contrary. You imply that every business owner is free from greed and corruption. Business owners decide daily to ship jobs offshore for these very reasons.

Funny how pro-capitalists always see capitalism thru the rosy glasses of perfect utopian capitalism without seeing the realities.

Kinda reminds me of those that believed in utopian communism.

No one said anything about utopia, dullard. There are pitfalls and negative aspects of everything human related. The idea though, is to maximize freedom for the individual. For someone who doesn't even understand capitalism, it's of no consequence what you really think. We dont have capitlaism anyway. How's your system working out? Pretty fucking poorly, fella.

1. We may have considerable freedom from government, but we have very little economic freedom (at least the vast majority does not).

2. I don't have a system. I'm not capitalist, I'm not communist, I'm not socialist. I'm always interested in new ideas - which is why I watched this video.

3. I disagree with anyone that holds dogmatic beliefs in any one system.

4. As of now the current system is not so bad as to warrant a violent revolution. So as far as systems go it's "not so bad". It could be a lot better.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

This is your dogma...For every example supporting your dogma I can find just as many supporting mine. If you were honest you would agree this example provided by you would be a fine "absolute" example of how things work in a more perfect world, but then reality sets in for the majority and it is very contrary. You imply that every business owner is free from greed and corruption. Business owners decide daily to ship jobs offshore for these very reasons.

There is no dogma here. The problem is, we don't have a capitalist system to bounce examples off from. In my profession, I negotiated the terms of my employment and was free to decline and sign on with another firm doing what I do.

If your example is going to be "the machine shop janitor doesn't get to negotiate the compensation of his employment", then yes. You're going to get a much different result. Or a burger flipper, or a cashier, or a greeter, or waiter, etc...and the reason has everything to do with what i indicated. Thats how the labor market works under current conditions. Low skilled workers dont have negotiating power. Period. It's not evil or the business owners fault for not paying a ****ing janitor 75K a year. Thats market forces. If sweeping the floor required skills that were beyond the scope of a coordinated monkey, then their negotiating power would increase exponentially. Let me know when that happens.

I know medical doctors that don't have the negotiation power you are referring to. So this doesn't just apply to "low skilled" labor as you describe. I know many IT professionals, very skilled, making well into 6 figures, but unemployed because their position has been outsourced to India, China, Russia, etc., simply because it was less expensive, not because the quality of service was better. These dogmatic views of the world are what keeps changes from happening. Everyone puts on their shade of filter for any given situation, greatly skewing the ability to meet in the middle.
Hopefully you can agree that not everyone that is unemployed is unskilled.

A medical doctor doesn't have negotiating power? I find that incredibly difficult to beleive. Incredibly. Why not? Whats the story there. Fill us in. People whos jobs were outsourced were done so through collusions of the work of government and their "free trade" agreements. Which hasnt a thing to do with freedom, free or trade. Thank your govenrment for those rules and privileges associated with job outsourcing. It has not much to do with expense, as it does these very agreements.

The rest is a bunch of bullshit as was the OP.

There is no capitalism, therefore prescribing a solution to it is fucking moronic.
Speaking of capitalism and then referring to what we have which isn't capitalism is fucking moronic.
Using dogma slathered heavily in hyperbole sold as a pragmatic world view is also moronic.

Glad I could help. Now have at it in here...whatever the fuck it is you're trying to do.

 

[shikaki]

I can summarize the video, but definitely worth the watch!! Very sharp and insightful Harvard Economist.

He provides examples of how capitalism has failed the American people. He offers "Economic Democracy" as the alternative.
Economic democracy is a socioeconomic philosophy that proposes to shift decision-making power from corporate shareholders to a larger group of public stakeholders that includes workers, customers, suppliers, neighbors and the broader public. No single definition or approach encompasses economic democracy, but most proponents claim that modern property relations externalize costs, subordinate the general well-being to private profit, and deny the polity a democratic voice in economic policy decisions.[1] In addition to these moral concerns, economic democracy makes practical claims, such as that it can compensate for capitalism's claimedly inherent effective demand gap.

1) You are using the Internet -- Courtesy of Capitalism-->profits-- taxes-- DARPA!
2) 52 percent, now say they own stock outright or as part of a mutual fund or self-directed retirement account
Dow hits 15000, but percentage of Americans owning stocks hits a low. Why? - CSMonitor.com
3) The DJI has since it's inception appreciated in value:
Since first closing at 62.76 on February 16, 1885, the Dow Jones Industrial Average has increased steadily to today: 15,764.13 199% per year .
4) People in poverty in the USA get:

a) Free Cell phone (my cell phone I PAY is about $100/month)
if the poor person receives just one of the below FREE entitlements:
* Food stamps * Medicaid * Section 8 * Supplemental Security Income * National School Lunch Program

b) 40 million Americans on food stamps get $200/month in free food.

it cost $75.7 billion in 2011 compared to $35 billion in 2008; and enrollment has hit an all-time high of 46.7 million recipients. Meanwhile, the number of children receiving free school lunches has inflated from 18 to 21 million — an unprecedented jump —
about 2.1 million households (6 million) use Section 8 the Housing Choice Voucher program, pays a large

c) portion of the rents and utilities of or the Housing Choice Voucher Program up to $1,000 /month in FREE housing...

So these people get
=== $ 5,666 in EIC cash,
=== $12,000 free housing ,
=== $ 2,400 free food,
=== $ 1,200 in free cell phone plus
=== $ 5,000 a year in free health care from Medicaid.
So this is about $26,000 a year in FREE MONEY, free goods and free services...

What OTHER economy in the world has 20 million people GETTING $26,000 a year in FREE CELL/housing/food?
Who is paying for it? Taxes from individuals most working for for-profits that pay taxes...
AGAIN tell me how BAD capitalism has been to these people that are RICHER then the richest people in the 1800s when NONE of the above was available MUCH LESS THE
INTERNET!!!

Seems to me you just proved how shitty capitalism can be....

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Funny how pro-capitalists always see capitalism thru the rosy glasses of perfect utopian capitalism without seeing the realities.

Kinda reminds me of those that believed in utopian communism.

No one said anything about utopia, dullard. There are pitfalls and negative aspects of everything human related. The idea though, is to maximize freedom for the individual. For someone who doesn't even understand capitalism, it's of no consequence what you really think. We dont have capitlaism anyway. How's your system working out? Pretty fucking poorly, fella.

1. We may have considerable freedom from government, but we have very little economic freedom (at least the vast majority does not).

2. I don't have a system. I'm not capitalist, I'm not communist, I'm not socialist. I'm always interested in new ideas - which is why I watched this video.

3. I disagree with anyone that holds dogmatic beliefs in any one system.

4. As of now the current system is not so bad as to warrant a violent revolution. So as far as systems go it's "not so bad". It could be a lot better.

Oh, sure. Keep telling yourself that.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

I can summarize the video, but definitely worth the watch!! Very sharp and insightful Harvard Economist.

He provides examples of how capitalism has failed the American people. He offers "Economic Democracy" as the alternative.
Economic democracy is a socioeconomic philosophy that proposes to shift decision-making power from corporate shareholders to a larger group of public stakeholders that includes workers, customers, suppliers, neighbors and the broader public. No single definition or approach encompasses economic democracy, but most proponents claim that modern property relations externalize costs, subordinate the general well-being to private profit, and deny the polity a democratic voice in economic policy decisions.[1] In addition to these moral concerns, economic democracy makes practical claims, such as that it can compensate for capitalism's claimedly inherent effective demand gap.

1) You are using the Internet -- Courtesy of Capitalism-->profits-- taxes-- DARPA!
2) 52 percent, now say they own stock outright or as part of a mutual fund or self-directed retirement account
Dow hits 15000, but percentage of Americans owning stocks hits a low. Why? - CSMonitor.com
3) The DJI has since it's inception appreciated in value:
Since first closing at 62.76 on February 16, 1885, the Dow Jones Industrial Average has increased steadily to today: 15,764.13 199% per year .
4) People in poverty in the USA get:

a) Free Cell phone (my cell phone I PAY is about $100/month)
if the poor person receives just one of the below FREE entitlements:
* Food stamps * Medicaid * Section 8 * Supplemental Security Income * National School Lunch Program

b) 40 million Americans on food stamps get $200/month in free food.

it cost $75.7 billion in 2011 compared to $35 billion in 2008; and enrollment has hit an all-time high of 46.7 million recipients. Meanwhile, the number of children receiving free school lunches has inflated from 18 to 21 million — an unprecedented jump —
about 2.1 million households (6 million) use Section 8 the Housing Choice Voucher program, pays a large

c) portion of the rents and utilities of or the Housing Choice Voucher Program up to $1,000 /month in FREE housing...

So these people get
=== $ 5,666 in EIC cash,
=== $12,000 free housing ,
=== $ 2,400 free food,
=== $ 1,200 in free cell phone plus
=== $ 5,000 a year in free health care from Medicaid.
So this is about $26,000 a year in FREE MONEY, free goods and free services...

What OTHER economy in the world has 20 million people GETTING $26,000 a year in FREE CELL/housing/food?
Who is paying for it? Taxes from individuals most working for for-profits that pay taxes...
AGAIN tell me how BAD capitalism has been to these people that are RICHER then the richest people in the 1800s when NONE of the above was available MUCH LESS THE
INTERNET!!!

Seems to me you just proved how shitty capitalism can be....

That's not capitalism, shit for brains. Over 100 posts and we're still stuck on stupid. As they say, it can't be fixed. The wheels on the bus go round and round!

 

[shikaki]

There is no dogma here. The problem is, we don't have a capitalist system to bounce examples off from. In my profession, I negotiated the terms of my employment and was free to decline and sign on with another firm doing what I do.

If your example is going to be "the machine shop janitor doesn't get to negotiate the compensation of his employment", then yes. You're going to get a much different result. Or a burger flipper, or a cashier, or a greeter, or waiter, etc...and the reason has everything to do with what i indicated. Thats how the labor market works under current conditions. Low skilled workers dont have negotiating power. Period. It's not evil or the business owners fault for not paying a ****ing janitor 75K a year. Thats market forces. If sweeping the floor required skills that were beyond the scope of a coordinated monkey, then their negotiating power would increase exponentially. Let me know when that happens.

I know medical doctors that don't have the negotiation power you are referring to. So this doesn't just apply to "low skilled" labor as you describe. I know many IT professionals, very skilled, making well into 6 figures, but unemployed because their position has been outsourced to India, China, Russia, etc., simply because it was less expensive, not because the quality of service was better. These dogmatic views of the world are what keeps changes from happening. Everyone puts on their shade of filter for any given situation, greatly skewing the ability to meet in the middle.
Hopefully you can agree that not everyone that is unemployed is unskilled.

A medical doctor doesn't have negotiating power? I find that incredibly difficult to beleive. Incredibly. Why not? Whats the story there. Fill us in. People whos jobs were outsourced were done so through collusions of the work of government and their "free trade" agreements. Which hasnt a thing to do with freedom, free or trade. Thank your govenrment for those rules and privileges associated with job outsourcing. It has not much to do with expense, as it does these very agreements.

The rest is a bunch of bull**** as was the OP.

There is no capitalism, therefore prescribing a solution to it is ****ing moronic.
Speaking of capitalism and then referring to what we have which isn't capitalism is ****ing moronic.
Using dogma slathered heavily in hyperbole sold as a pragmatic world view is also moronic.

Glad I could help. Now have at it in here...whatever the **** it is you're trying to do.

You must be very sheltered... Hopefully instead of sitting in front of a computer all day you can get out and really interact with mainstream America. My guess is you are somewhat older and haven't worked in a corporate environment in some time. Your probably living off a pension that you were able to draw after 30 years of employment at the same job. If that is the case I understand your mindset perfectly, so this entire dialogue including the video is like trying to describe an elephant to a blind person.

 

[Richard-H]

I can summarize the video, but definitely worth the watch!! Very sharp and insightful Harvard Economist.

He provides examples of how capitalism has failed the American people. He offers "Economic Democracy" as the alternative.
Economic democracy is a socioeconomic philosophy that proposes to shift decision-making power from corporate shareholders to a larger group of public stakeholders that includes workers, customers, suppliers, neighbors and the broader public. No single definition or approach encompasses economic democracy, but most proponents claim that modern property relations externalize costs, subordinate the general well-being to private profit, and deny the polity a democratic voice in economic policy decisions.[1] In addition to these moral concerns, economic democracy makes practical claims, such as that it can compensate for capitalism's claimedly inherent effective demand gap.

1) You are using the Internet -- Courtesy of Capitalism-->profits-- taxes-- DARPA!
2) 52 percent, now say they own stock outright or as part of a mutual fund or self-directed retirement account
Dow hits 15000, but percentage of Americans owning stocks hits a low. Why? - CSMonitor.com
3) The DJI has since it's inception appreciated in value:
Since first closing at 62.76 on February 16, 1885, the Dow Jones Industrial Average has increased steadily to today: 15,764.13 199% per year .
4) People in poverty in the USA get:

a) Free Cell phone (my cell phone I PAY is about $100/month)
if the poor person receives just one of the below FREE entitlements:
* Food stamps * Medicaid * Section 8 * Supplemental Security Income * National School Lunch Program

b) 40 million Americans on food stamps get $200/month in free food.

it cost $75.7 billion in 2011 compared to $35 billion in 2008; and enrollment has hit an all-time high of 46.7 million recipients. Meanwhile, the number of children receiving free school lunches has inflated from 18 to 21 million — an unprecedented jump —
about 2.1 million households (6 million) use Section 8 the Housing Choice Voucher program, pays a large

c) portion of the rents and utilities of or the Housing Choice Voucher Program up to $1,000 /month in FREE housing...

So these people get
=== $ 5,666 in EIC cash,
=== $12,000 free housing ,
=== $ 2,400 free food,
=== $ 1,200 in free cell phone plus
=== $ 5,000 a year in free health care from Medicaid.
So this is about $26,000 a year in FREE MONEY, free goods and free services...

What OTHER economy in the world has 20 million people GETTING $26,000 a year in FREE CELL/housing/food?
Who is paying for it? Taxes from individuals most working for for-profits that pay taxes...
AGAIN tell me how BAD capitalism has been to these people that are RICHER then the richest people in the 1800s when NONE of the above was available MUCH LESS THE
INTERNET!!!

1. None of the benefits for the poor that you list are the results of capitalism. They are the results of liberal government programs in defiance of capitalism.

2. As stated in the OP video, there are 20 million Americans that are unemployed or under employed. The federal Reserve estimates are that America is at 75% economic resource utilization. Meanwhile, corporations are holding onto the largest cash hollding in history - they refuse to invest.

3. The only conclusions from these two statements is that capitalism as is is failing to manage the economy efficiently. If the capitalist would manage efficiently we wouldn't need the government programs to help the poor.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

I know medical doctors that don't have the negotiation power you are referring to. So this doesn't just apply to "low skilled" labor as you describe. I know many IT professionals, very skilled, making well into 6 figures, but unemployed because their position has been outsourced to India, China, Russia, etc., simply because it was less expensive, not because the quality of service was better. These dogmatic views of the world are what keeps changes from happening. Everyone puts on their shade of filter for any given situation, greatly skewing the ability to meet in the middle.
Hopefully you can agree that not everyone that is unemployed is unskilled.

A medical doctor doesn't have negotiating power? I find that incredibly difficult to beleive. Incredibly. Why not? Whats the story there. Fill us in. People whos jobs were outsourced were done so through collusions of the work of government and their "free trade" agreements. Which hasnt a thing to do with freedom, free or trade. Thank your govenrment for those rules and privileges associated with job outsourcing. It has not much to do with expense, as it does these very agreements.

The rest is a bunch of bull**** as was the OP.

There is no capitalism, therefore prescribing a solution to it is ****ing moronic.
Speaking of capitalism and then referring to what we have which isn't capitalism is ****ing moronic.
Using dogma slathered heavily in hyperbole sold as a pragmatic world view is also moronic.

Glad I could help. Now have at it in here...whatever the **** it is you're trying to do.

You must be very sheltered... Hopefully instead of sitting in front of a computer all day you can get out and really interact with mainstream America. My guess is you are somewhat older and haven't worked in a corporate environment in some time. Your probably living off a pension that you were able to draw after 30 years of employment at the same job. If that is the case I understand your mindset perfectly, so this entire dialogue including the video is like trying to describe an elephant to a blind person.

So, what you're saying is, you dont know fucking shit from shinola on economics and have been exposed so you're trying to play the character assassination card. Well, that's all fine and good, fella. I work full time, have for many years and happen to be having a rather slow day at the office. Hence wasting a plethora of time on such an ignorant group of turds regarding capitalism.

And Im out. A shout out [MENTION=30065]dblack[/MENTION] for actually understanding the content of this thread beyond the initial OP which is a false premise.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

I can summarize the video, but definitely worth the watch!! Very sharp and insightful Harvard Economist.

He provides examples of how capitalism has failed the American people. He offers "Economic Democracy" as the alternative.
Economic democracy is a socioeconomic philosophy that proposes to shift decision-making power from corporate shareholders to a larger group of public stakeholders that includes workers, customers, suppliers, neighbors and the broader public. No single definition or approach encompasses economic democracy, but most proponents claim that modern property relations externalize costs, subordinate the general well-being to private profit, and deny the polity a democratic voice in economic policy decisions.[1] In addition to these moral concerns, economic democracy makes practical claims, such as that it can compensate for capitalism's claimedly inherent effective demand gap.

1) You are using the Internet -- Courtesy of Capitalism-->profits-- taxes-- DARPA!
2) 52 percent, now say they own stock outright or as part of a mutual fund or self-directed retirement account
Dow hits 15000, but percentage of Americans owning stocks hits a low. Why? - CSMonitor.com
3) The DJI has since it's inception appreciated in value:
Since first closing at 62.76 on February 16, 1885, the Dow Jones Industrial Average has increased steadily to today: 15,764.13 199% per year .
4) People in poverty in the USA get:

a) Free Cell phone (my cell phone I PAY is about $100/month)
if the poor person receives just one of the below FREE entitlements:
* Food stamps * Medicaid * Section 8 * Supplemental Security Income * National School Lunch Program

b) 40 million Americans on food stamps get $200/month in free food.

it cost $75.7 billion in 2011 compared to $35 billion in 2008; and enrollment has hit an all-time high of 46.7 million recipients. Meanwhile, the number of children receiving free school lunches has inflated from 18 to 21 million — an unprecedented jump —
about 2.1 million households (6 million) use Section 8 the Housing Choice Voucher program, pays a large

c) portion of the rents and utilities of or the Housing Choice Voucher Program up to $1,000 /month in FREE housing...

So these people get
=== $ 5,666 in EIC cash,
=== $12,000 free housing ,
=== $ 2,400 free food,
=== $ 1,200 in free cell phone plus
=== $ 5,000 a year in free health care from Medicaid.
So this is about $26,000 a year in FREE MONEY, free goods and free services...

What OTHER economy in the world has 20 million people GETTING $26,000 a year in FREE CELL/housing/food?
Who is paying for it? Taxes from individuals most working for for-profits that pay taxes...
AGAIN tell me how BAD capitalism has been to these people that are RICHER then the richest people in the 1800s when NONE of the above was available MUCH LESS THE
INTERNET!!!

1. None of the benefits for the poor that you list are the results of capitalism. They are the results of liberal government programs in defiance of capitalism.

2. As stated in the OP video, there are 20 million Americans that are unemployed or under employed. The federal Reserve estimates are that America is at 75% economic resource utilization. Meanwhile, corporations are holding onto the largest cash hollding in history - they refuse to invest.

3. The only conclusions from these two statements is that capitalism as is is failing to manage the economy efficiently. If the capitalist would manage efficiently we wouldn't need the government programs to help the poor.

What capiitalism?

 

[JoeNormal]

There is no dogma here. The problem is, we don't have a capitalist system to bounce examples off from. In my profession, I negotiated the terms of my employment and was free to decline and sign on with another firm doing what I do.

If your example is going to be "the machine shop janitor doesn't get to negotiate the compensation of his employment", then yes. You're going to get a much different result. Or a burger flipper, or a cashier, or a greeter, or waiter, etc...and the reason has everything to do with what i indicated. Thats how the labor market works under current conditions. Low skilled workers dont have negotiating power. Period. It's not evil or the business owners fault for not paying a ****ing janitor 75K a year. Thats market forces. If sweeping the floor required skills that were beyond the scope of a coordinated monkey, then their negotiating power would increase exponentially. Let me know when that happens.

I know medical doctors that don't have the negotiation power you are referring to. So this doesn't just apply to "low skilled" labor as you describe. I know many IT professionals, very skilled, making well into 6 figures, but unemployed because their position has been outsourced to India, China, Russia, etc., simply because it was less expensive, not because the quality of service was better. These dogmatic views of the world are what keeps changes from happening. Everyone puts on their shade of filter for any given situation, greatly skewing the ability to meet in the middle.
Hopefully you can agree that not everyone that is unemployed is unskilled.

A medical doctor doesn't have negotiating power? I find that incredibly difficult to beleive. Incredibly. Why not? Whats the story there. Fill us in. People whos jobs were outsourced were done so through collusions of the work of government and their "free trade" agreements. Which hasnt a thing to do with freedom, free or trade. Thank your govenrment for those rules and privileges associated with job outsourcing. It has not much to do with expense, as it does these very agreements.

The rest is a bunch of bullshit as was the OP.

There is no capitalism, therefore prescribing a solution to it is fucking moronic.
Speaking of capitalism and then referring to what we have which isn't capitalism is fucking moronic.
Using dogma slathered heavily in hyperbole sold as a pragmatic world view is also moronic.

Glad I could help. Now have at it in here...whatever the fuck it is you're trying to do.

So what's your argument then? That people shouldn't use the term 'capitalism' to describe the system that we have? Or that the system that we have (what would you call it?) doesn't need to be fixed?

 

[shikaki]

So, what you're saying is, you dont know ****ing **** from shinola on economics and have been exposed so you're trying to play the character assassination card. Well, that's all fine and good, fella. I work full time, have for many years and happen to be having a rather slow day at the office. Hence wasting a plethora of time on such an ignorant group of turds regarding capitalism.

And Im out. A shout out [MENTION=30065]dblack[/MENTION] for actually understanding the content of this thread beyond the initial OP which is a false premise.

You are the a$$clown that has been name calling and calling everyone stupid from the beginning, off in your own backwards, sheltered, wanna be existential world about how the US isn't a form a capitalism.

Meanwhile Harvard Economist clearly disagree with your position and everyone compared to you is stupid. Clearly delusional with a slathering of narcissism.

 

[JoeNormal]

So, what you're saying is, you dont know ****ing **** from shinola on economics and have been exposed so you're trying to play the character assassination card. Well, that's all fine and good, fella. I work full time, have for many years and happen to be having a rather slow day at the office. Hence wasting a plethora of time on such an ignorant group of turds regarding capitalism.

And Im out. A shout out [MENTION=30065]dblack[/MENTION] for actually understanding the content of this thread beyond the initial OP which is a false premise.

You are the a$$clown that has been name calling and calling everyone stupid from the beginning, off in your own backwards, sheltered, wanna be existential world about how the US isn't a form a capitalism.

Meanwhile Harvard Economist clearly disagree with your position and everyone compared to you is stupid. Clearly delusional with a slathering of narcissism.

TakeAStepBack knows the classical definitions of a few terms (I'll assume) and appears to think that dismissing arguments that don't conform to those classical definitions qualifies as rational discussion.

 

[Richard-H]

1) You are using the Internet -- Courtesy of Capitalism-->profits-- taxes-- DARPA!
2) 52 percent, now say they own stock outright or as part of a mutual fund or self-directed retirement account
Dow hits 15000, but percentage of Americans owning stocks hits a low. Why? - CSMonitor.com
3) The DJI has since it's inception appreciated in value:
Since first closing at 62.76 on February 16, 1885, the Dow Jones Industrial Average has increased steadily to today: 15,764.13 199% per year .
4) People in poverty in the USA get:

a) Free Cell phone (my cell phone I PAY is about $100/month)
if the poor person receives just one of the below FREE entitlements:
* Food stamps * Medicaid * Section 8 * Supplemental Security Income * National School Lunch Program

b) 40 million Americans on food stamps get $200/month in free food.

it cost $75.7 billion in 2011 compared to $35 billion in 2008; and enrollment has hit an all-time high of 46.7 million recipients. Meanwhile, the number of children receiving free school lunches has inflated from 18 to 21 million — an unprecedented jump —
about 2.1 million households (6 million) use Section 8 the Housing Choice Voucher program, pays a large

c) portion of the rents and utilities of or the Housing Choice Voucher Program up to $1,000 /month in FREE housing...

So these people get
=== $ 5,666 in EIC cash,
=== $12,000 free housing ,
=== $ 2,400 free food,
=== $ 1,200 in free cell phone plus
=== $ 5,000 a year in free health care from Medicaid.
So this is about $26,000 a year in FREE MONEY, free goods and free services...

What OTHER economy in the world has 20 million people GETTING $26,000 a year in FREE CELL/housing/food?
Who is paying for it? Taxes from individuals most working for for-profits that pay taxes...
AGAIN tell me how BAD capitalism has been to these people that are RICHER then the richest people in the 1800s when NONE of the above was available MUCH LESS THE
INTERNET!!!

1. None of the benefits for the poor that you list are the results of capitalism. They are the results of liberal government programs in defiance of capitalism.

2. As stated in the OP video, there are 20 million Americans that are unemployed or under employed. The federal Reserve estimates are that America is at 75% economic resource utilization. Meanwhile, corporations are holding onto the largest cash hollding in history - they refuse to invest.

3. The only conclusions from these two statements is that capitalism as is is failing to manage the economy efficiently. If the capitalist would manage efficiently we wouldn't need the government programs to help the poor.

What capiitalism?

Obviously we are not a pure capitalist society. Most people would consider us a capitalist dominated society.

How would you define our economic system? Investment-corporatism?

I'd say that we are some sort of economic Monarchy.

 

[tooAlive]

You make the distinction between capitalism and corporatism. Don't you think that corporatism is the natural result of capitalism?

No. Corporatism is a version of socialism in which the bourgeoisie and proletariat switch places.

 

[tooAlive]

What capitalism? We haven't had capitalism in the US since neo-classical economics took over.

The problem with most heterodox economists, is that they fail to understand the praxeology of economics. Economic democracy is a terrible idea. What you're essentially advocating is the removal of all private property in favor of central planning based on majority rule over the system vs. ndividual initiative.

It would collapse under its own weight.

And again, most of these economists fail to distinguish the difference between corporatism and captialism. Making most of the premise false right out of the gate.

This pretty much summarizes everything.

We don't have truly free markets in America, therefore coming up with "cures" for capitalism here aren't even relevant arguments.

 

[Contumacious]

1. None of the benefits for the poor that you list are the results of capitalism. They are the results of liberal government programs in defiance of capitalism.

2. As stated in the OP video, there are 20 million Americans that are unemployed or under employed. The federal Reserve estimates are that America is at 75% economic resource utilization. Meanwhile, corporations are holding onto the largest cash hollding in history - they refuse to invest.

3. The only conclusions from these two statements is that capitalism as is is failing to manage the economy efficiently. If the capitalist would manage efficiently we wouldn't need the government programs to help the poor.

What capiitalism?

Obviously we are not a pure capitalist society. Most people would consider us a capitalist dominated society.

How would you define our economic system? Investment-corporatism?

I'd say that we are some sort of economic Monarchy.

FASCISTIC

If the government is involved in the economy in any way shape or form FASCISM is the name of the game.

...The Fascist State organizes the nation, but leaves a sufficient margin of liberty to the individual; the latter is deprived of all useless and possibly harmful freedom, but retains what is essential; the deciding power in this question cannot be the individual, but the State alone....

Benito Mussolini.

.

 

[Richard-H]

What capiitalism?

Obviously we are not a pure capitalist society. Most people would consider us a capitalist dominated society.

How would you define our economic system? Investment-corporatism?

I'd say that we are some sort of economic Monarchy.

FASCISTIC

If the government is involved in the economy in any way shape or form FASCISM is the name of the game.

...The Fascist State organizes the nation, but leaves a sufficient margin of liberty to the individual; the latter is deprived of all useless and possibly harmful freedom, but retains what is essential; the deciding power in this question cannot be the individual, but the State alone....

Benito Mussolini.

.

Fascism is primarily extreme nationalism. If we were fascist we wouldn't be shipping jobs overseas, we'd be invading those countries and enslaving their people.

Mussolini was a bullshit artist that would say anything that sounded good at the moment.

 

[Contumacious]

Obviously we are not a pure capitalist society. Most people would consider us a capitalist dominated society.

How would you define our economic system? Investment-corporatism?

I'd say that we are some sort of economic Monarchy.

FASCISTIC

If the government is involved in the economy in any way shape or form FASCISM is the name of the game.

...The Fascist State organizes the nation, but leaves a sufficient margin of liberty to the individual; the latter is deprived of all useless and possibly harmful freedom, but retains what is essential; the deciding power in this question cannot be the individual, but the State alone....

Benito Mussolini.

.

Fascism is primarily extreme nationalism. If we were fascist we wouldn't be shipping jobs overseas, we'd be invading those countries and enslaving their people.

Mussolini was a bullshit artist that would say anything that sounded good at the moment.

That does not apply to all fascist countries. You are referring to the German Model.

.

 

[tooAlive]

Fascism is nothing more than an extreme form of socialism in which the people are socialized instead of the means of production.

Here's a quote from Hitler:

Shortly after coming to power, Hitler told a confidant: "There is no license any more, no private sphere where the individual belongs to himself. That is socialism, not such trivial matters as the possibility of privately owning the means of production. Such things mean nothing if I subject people to a kind of discipline they can't escape...What need have we to socialize banks and factories? We socialize human beings".

 

[Vox]

Obviously we are not a pure capitalist society. Most people would consider us a capitalist dominated society.

How would you define our economic system? Investment-corporatism?

I'd say that we are some sort of economic Monarchy.

FASCISTIC

If the government is involved in the economy in any way shape or form FASCISM is the name of the game.

...The Fascist State organizes the nation, but leaves a sufficient margin of liberty to the individual; the latter is deprived of all useless and possibly harmful freedom, but retains what is essential; the deciding power in this question cannot be the individual, but the State alone....

Benito Mussolini.

.

Fascism is primarily extreme nationalism. If we were fascist we wouldn't be shipping jobs overseas, we'd be invading those countries and enslaving their people.

Mussolini was a bullshit artist that would say anything that sounded good at the moment.

Fascism is a form of socialism.

Nationalism is a part of superstructure and does not determine the economic base.