Democrat Platform destroys the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

[martybegan]

I don't support all the gun legislation proposed as some of it I don't see how it makes a practical impact. But I do see much of it and the inherent intent to keep dangerous guns out of hands of dangerous people. I think its a fair discussion that needs to be taken issue by issue. These blanket attacks are useless to me.

"Dangerous guns".

No such thing. Guns are inanimate objects. They don't act; they are acted upon. They are a tool to be utilized.

"Dangerous people".

Getting closer there. Two problems, though.

1. Dangerous people will act dangerously regardless of the tools available or the laws preventing their actions.

2. It really depends on who's defining what's dangerous, doesn't it? To some people, ideas are dangerous and their dissemination must be prevented and those who believe in them must be punished.

Dangerous people do not need to be enabled by easy access to tools for killing. I'd rather a crazy guy try and kill people with a knife instead of a machine gun. Get it?

How are we enabling dangerous people easy access? We have 20,000+ gun laws.

What new law do you propose will stop "dangerous" people from acquiring firearms?

I'm not proposing any new laws... I was simply making that point that both the people allowed to buy guns and the guns people are allowed to buy are risk factors and should be considered when setting regulations.

You are confused.

The problem with that is when the filthy Liberals decide who can get firearms and who can't we get massive infringement for everybody on our Constitutional rights. We see it in the Communist states like California and in the cities where the Locals are run by Democrats and have control over guns.

They not only restrict who can have the arms but also what kind of arms and even the ammo that the arms use. A major Constitutional infringement that clearly says should not be infringed.

Liberals ignore the Constitution when it suits their vile and destructive agenda. We see it every day.

How does your explanation show where I’m confused? It sounds like a random rant from an irrational thinker who wants no regulation on firearms

You are confused because you don't understand that we can't trust Liberals to protect our right to keep and bear arms. They just don't have it in them to do because their agenda is to do away with that right. They have even said so.

What Liberals call reasonable is always unreasonable.

Have those acts oppressed you or prevented you from getting a gun? Whats your problem with those laws and what exactly did you compromise?

You wanna hear something funny?

I don't own any firearms.

But the Constitution is pretty clear. "Shall not be infringed" doesn't mean "the government can take away certain weapons and ammunition".

No, really. Have you read it?

Same here. Also, I've never been arrested, but that doesn't mean I give up my right to a speedy trial, a trial by jury, or due process.

So its your point of view that banning machine guns and not selling them to say a 10 year old in a 711 is unconstitutional?

I own 12 guns BTW

well anything before the age of majority has been found constitutional, we restrict things like drinking, and voting, and even driving before that, so there is precedent.

And I am not so much a purist as saying everyone needs a machine gun. My issue is infringement of even the most basic weapons by certain cities.

In NYC you need to spend 3-6 months and $500 or so just to get a permit to keep a revolver in your house. That's infringement.

Ok that’s a fair stance to take. There are many in this board that can even admit that the smallest of regulations is lawful and effective.

Like any right, the 2nd isn't absolute, however, do you agree that NYC's stance is infringement?

Yes of course it is infringement, just as any regulation can be called infringement. but the question is... we’re the laws imposed in a lawful way By the states and per the constitution? There is a process for states to go through and a system set up to appeal laws that some may consider unconstitutional.

Dodge. Again, I ask the question, based on YOUR interpretation of the 2nd amendment are NYC's laws as I described above unconstitutional or not?

The problem with the process is local judges who don't care about constitutional rights, and just decide as they are supposed to.

I wasn’t meaning to dodge, thought I was pretty direct. Yes NYC laws infringe as do a u law but they passed those laws in a constitutional way.

I think you are confusing the legislative process for constitutionality. If a State passes a law banning Catholicism is that Constitutional?

That depends on what the Supreme Court says about it

...said the South before the Dred Scott decision.

And the south before Plessey.

 

[2aguy]

Oh put-lease. That argument is ridiculous on multiple levels. The first is to assume that our guaranteed rights aren’t equally important. Well...you aren’t going to have a free and fair election if don’t have free speech or the right to assemble. The second is the implication that countries with stricter gun control dont have free and fair elections.

You mean free and fair like in Cuba? Venezuela? Russia? China?

Sweden, Canada, New Zealand, UK, Germany, Norway, Australia, Japan....

Look at Finland...a common sense and sane approach to guns.

How gun laws in a dozen countries compare with New Zealand's new ban on semiautomatic weapons

The approach to gun laws in each of the 12 countries varies widely depending on whether owning a gun is considered a right or a privilege.

www.usatoday.com

Finland
Finland, where hunting is popular, has the highest per capita gun ownership in the Nordic countries. Handgun license applicants are allowed to purchase firearms only if they can prove they are active members of regulated shooting clubs. Before they can get a gun, applicants must pass an aptitude test, submit to a police interview and show they have a proper gun storage unit.

They have guns....their people don't take those guns into malls, schools or churches......and their criminals don't use them to shoot each other.......it is the culture, not access to guns that drives the gun crime rate.

We have all the laws we need to handle gun crime and reduce it....what we also have is a political party that keeps releasing the violent gun criminals over and over again.....that is what causes 95% of our gun crime here in the U.S......

27 years, we have more Americans buying and carrying guns....over 18.6 million Americans can actually carry guns for self defense with permits......

Our gun murder rate went down 49%

Our gun crime rate went down 75%

We don't need more useless laws....we need to keep violent gun criminals, the ones actually shooting each other and other innocent people in the democrat party controlled cities in jail and prison. If we do that, our gun crime rates in democrat party controlled cities goes down .........focus on more pointless laws against normal gun owners and gun crime will stay high in those cities......

You don't care about stopping gun crime, you don't like guns or gun owners.

 

[2aguy]

Oh put-lease. That argument is ridiculous on multiple levels. The first is to assume that our guaranteed rights aren’t equally important. Well...you aren’t going to have a free and fair election if don’t have free speech or the right to assemble. The second is the implication that countries with stricter gun control dont have free and fair elections.

You mean free and fair like in Cuba? Venezuela? Russia? China?

Sweden, Canada, New Zealand, UK, Germany, Norway, Australia, Japan....

Look at Finland...a common sense and sane approach to guns.

How gun laws in a dozen countries compare with New Zealand's new ban on semiautomatic weapons

The approach to gun laws in each of the 12 countries varies widely depending on whether owning a gun is considered a right or a privilege.

www.usatoday.com

Finland
Finland, where hunting is popular, has the highest per capita gun ownership in the Nordic countries. Handgun license applicants are allowed to purchase firearms only if they can prove they are active members of regulated shooting clubs. Before they can get a gun, applicants must pass an aptitude test, submit to a police interview and show they have a proper gun storage unit.

Sweden...really? They have a criminal gang problem in Sweden....they like to use grenades as well as fully automatic military rifles...

Crime gangs in Sweden: What's behind the rise in the use of explosives?

The frequent use of explosives is a relatively recent phenomenon, and criminologists told The Local that the blasts can be seen as part of an overall rise in violence and growing recklessness in these criminal networks.

Amir Rostami, a police superintendent turned sociologist with a focus on criminal gangs, told The Local that so-called 'street gangs' are showing an increased tendency towards violence, and that this violence was becoming more severe when it took place.

"If previously they maybe fired one shot or shot someone in the legs, today it's more about AK47s, using more bullets, hand grenades and explosions that we didn't see before.

I'd say that's the biggest shift we see – they're more reckless, they don't seem to care about the consequences," Rostami said.

Fatal shootings linked to criminal gangs have increased from around four per year in the early 1990s to over 40 in 2018. And while the blasts that have taken place in Sweden have caused no fatalities so far this year, they could be seen as a sign that the gangs are unafraid of causing damage and potentially harming people.
No, Sweden, hand grenade attacks aren’t an ‘image’ problem

In 2018 there were 162 bombings reported to police, and 93 reported in the first five months of this year, 30 more than during the same period in 2018. The level of attacks is “extreme in a country that is not at war,” Crime Commissioner Gunnar Appelgren told SVT last year.
-------
The use of hand grenades is a purely Swedish phenomenon too, with no other country in Europe reporting their use on such a level, a police manager told Swedish Radio in 2016, a year after attacks first spiked.

The grenades used almost exclusively originate in the former Yugoslavia, and are sold in Sweden for around $100 per piece. But while only three hand grenades were thrown in Kosovo between 2013 and 2014, more than 20 have been used in Sweden every year since 2015.

More broadly, homicide has risen in Sweden, with more than 300 shootings reported last year, causing 45 deaths. Though homicide rates had been in decline since 2002, they again began trending upwards in 2015, as did rapes and sexual assaults, which more than tripled in the last four years.

Of course, 2015 was also the year in which Sweden flung open its doors to more than 160,000 asylum seekers, more per capita than any other European country.
-------

Dagens Nyheter pointed out that 90 percent of shooting perpetrators in Sweden are either first or second generation immigrants.

 

[2aguy]

Oh put-lease. That argument is ridiculous on multiple levels. The first is to assume that our guaranteed rights aren’t equally important. Well...you aren’t going to have a free and fair election if don’t have free speech or the right to assemble. The second is the implication that countries with stricter gun control dont have free and fair elections.

You mean free and fair like in Cuba? Venezuela? Russia? China?

Sweden, Canada, New Zealand, UK, Germany, Norway, Australia, Japan....

Look at Finland...a common sense and sane approach to guns.

How gun laws in a dozen countries compare with New Zealand's new ban on semiautomatic weapons

The approach to gun laws in each of the 12 countries varies widely depending on whether owning a gun is considered a right or a privilege.

www.usatoday.com

Finland
Finland, where hunting is popular, has the highest per capita gun ownership in the Nordic countries. Handgun license applicants are allowed to purchase firearms only if they can prove they are active members of regulated shooting clubs. Before they can get a gun, applicants must pass an aptitude test, submit to a police interview and show they have a proper gun storage unit.

The U.K.

Police struggle to stop flood of firearms into UK

Police and border officials are struggling to stop a rising supply of illegal firearms being smuggled into Britain, a senior police chief has warned.

Chief constable Andy Cooke, the national police lead for serious and organised crime, said law enforcement had seen an increased supply of guns over the past year, and feared that it would continue in 2019

The Guardian has learned that the situation is so serious that the National Crime Agency has taken the rare step of using its legal powers to direct every single police force to step up the fight against illegal guns.

The NCA has used tasking powers to direct greater intelligence about firearms to be gathered by all 43 forces in England and Wales.

Another senior law enforcement official said that “new and clean” weapons were now being used in the majority of shootings, as opposed to guns once being so difficult to obtain that they would be “rented out” to be used in multiple crimes.

Cooke, the Merseyside chief constable, told the Guardian: “We in law enforcement expect the rise in new firearms to continue. We are doing all we can. We are not in a position to stop it anytime soon.

“Law enforcement is more joined up now than before, but the scale of the problem is such that despite a number of excellent firearms seizures, I expect the rise in supply to be a continuing issue.”

The increasing supply of guns belies problems with UK border security and innovations by organised crime gangs. Smugglers have increasingly found new ways and innovative routes to get guns past border defences.


Cooke said that the dynamics of the streets of British cities had changed and that criminals were more willing to use guns: “If they bring them in people will buy them. It’s a kudos thing for organised criminals.”

Simon Brough, head of firearms at the NCA, said: “The majority of guns being used are new, clean firearms ... which indicates a relatively fluid supply.”

He said shotguns were 40% of the total, with an increase in burglaries to try and steal them.

Handguns are the next biggest category, most often smuggled in from overseas, with ferry ports such as Dover being a popular entry point into the UK for organised crime groups:

“We’re doing a lot to fight back against it,” Brough said, adding that compared to other European countries, the availability in the UK was relatively lower.
==========


Gun-Free Britain? Nearly 10,000 Gun Crimes Committed in One Year

The number of gun crimes committed in the United Kingdom has increased by 27 per cent in five years and the number of firearms seized has quadrupled, despite the country having some of the strictest gun control laws in the world.

Figures released by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) show that 9,787 crimes were committed with firearms in the year leading to March of 2019. The number of offences has risen by four per cent over the previous year and twenty-seven per cent in five years, the latest statistics available show.
-----

A middle-eastern gun runner told the news outlet that it is “easy” to bring guns to Britain and that he can sell the weapons for over £2,000, four times as much as he purchases them for in Europe.

The smuggler said that he travels to France and picks up the guns from migrant camps in Calais before shipping them back to the UK.
=======

 

[2aguy]

Oh put-lease. That argument is ridiculous on multiple levels. The first is to assume that our guaranteed rights aren’t equally important. Well...you aren’t going to have a free and fair election if don’t have free speech or the right to assemble. The second is the implication that countries with stricter gun control dont have free and fair elections.

You mean free and fair like in Cuba? Venezuela? Russia? China?

Sweden, Canada, New Zealand, UK, Germany, Norway, Australia, Japan....

Look at Finland...a common sense and sane approach to guns.

How gun laws in a dozen countries compare with New Zealand's new ban on semiautomatic weapons

The approach to gun laws in each of the 12 countries varies widely depending on whether owning a gun is considered a right or a privilege.

www.usatoday.com

Finland
Finland, where hunting is popular, has the highest per capita gun ownership in the Nordic countries. Handgun license applicants are allowed to purchase firearms only if they can prove they are active members of regulated shooting clubs. Before they can get a gun, applicants must pass an aptitude test, submit to a police interview and show they have a proper gun storage unit.

New Zealand...

'People are fearful': New Zealand police admit gang violence is out of control

Officers in Hawkes Bay, a region on the east coast of New Zealand’s North Island, are to be armed – police do not routinely carry guns in New Zealand – and have a more visible presence, with officers brought in from other areas, after shots were fired during a gang brawl in Taradale, Napier, on Sunday.

A 25-year-old man injured in the brawl was due to appear in court on Wednesday and police said more arrests were likely. Another shooting took place further north on Saturday, near the town of Ruatoria in the Bay of Plenty. Police said it was also gang-related.

The number of gang members in Hawkes Bay has increased by 30% to 35% in the past two or three years, according to police. Officers said on Wednesday they had arrested more gang members for unlawfully carrying weapons, including in an episode where members had “converged” on the Hawkes Bay town of Wairoa.
-----

In Saturday’s street brawl in Taradale, Stuff reported that residents “ducked for cover in shops and cafes” as shots rang out – one hitting a child’s car seat. The child was unharmed.

“We don’t know why they happened. It could be drugs, could be tit for tat, it’s stuff we will never know,” Kura said. It would be “horrendous” if a child was hurt.

 

[2aguy]

Oh put-lease. That argument is ridiculous on multiple levels. The first is to assume that our guaranteed rights aren’t equally important. Well...you aren’t going to have a free and fair election if don’t have free speech or the right to assemble. The second is the implication that countries with stricter gun control dont have free and fair elections.

You mean free and fair like in Cuba? Venezuela? Russia? China?

Sweden, Canada, New Zealand, UK, Germany, Norway, Australia, Japan....

Look at Finland...a common sense and sane approach to guns.

How gun laws in a dozen countries compare with New Zealand's new ban on semiautomatic weapons

The approach to gun laws in each of the 12 countries varies widely depending on whether owning a gun is considered a right or a privilege.

www.usatoday.com

Finland
Finland, where hunting is popular, has the highest per capita gun ownership in the Nordic countries. Handgun license applicants are allowed to purchase firearms only if they can prove they are active members of regulated shooting clubs. Before they can get a gun, applicants must pass an aptitude test, submit to a police interview and show they have a proper gun storage unit.

Australia....

Tauranga shootings: Armed police sent in to battle increasing violence in the city

The deaths are the latest in an uptick of crime in the Bay of Plenty, following the arrival of the notorious Mongols Motorcycle Club in the area.

Their arrival stoked simmering tensions with established Tauranga gangs like the Greazy Dogs and the Mongrel Mob, with police warning the newcomers - hardened from inter-gang warfare with firearms - would radically change the criminal landscape.

Tuesday's homicide was the latest in a series of brazen shootings involving semi-automatic firearms, with a suspected arson along a row of the Bay of Plenty shops last month.

Nash said the Government was pouring more resources into policing the Bay of Plenty, targeting gangs and organised crime.
----

"What's happening there is happening all around the country. Since March last year police have seized more than 2,000 illegal firearms from gangs and other criminals."
Armed officers dressed in body armour are about to hit the streets as police step up their response to increased gang rivalry and violent crime in Tauranga.

Police Minister Stuart Nash said the escalated response was a temporary measure aimed at tackling the latest flare-up between gangs. It also comes the day after two men where shot dead at a property in Omanawa.

"Expect to see police openly carrying their Bushmaster rifles and Glock pistols. Expect to see police wearing their new body armour," he said in a statement.

 

[2aguy]

Oh put-lease. That argument is ridiculous on multiple levels. The first is to assume that our guaranteed rights aren’t equally important. Well...you aren’t going to have a free and fair election if don’t have free speech or the right to assemble. The second is the implication that countries with stricter gun control dont have free and fair elections.

You mean free and fair like in Cuba? Venezuela? Russia? China?

Sweden, Canada, New Zealand, UK, Germany, Norway, Australia, Japan....

Look at Finland...a common sense and sane approach to guns.

How gun laws in a dozen countries compare with New Zealand's new ban on semiautomatic weapons

The approach to gun laws in each of the 12 countries varies widely depending on whether owning a gun is considered a right or a privilege.

www.usatoday.com

Finland
Finland, where hunting is popular, has the highest per capita gun ownership in the Nordic countries. Handgun license applicants are allowed to purchase firearms only if they can prove they are active members of regulated shooting clubs. Before they can get a gun, applicants must pass an aptitude test, submit to a police interview and show they have a proper gun storage unit.

France......

ris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.

The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.


===============
France’s real gun problem

Despite these strict laws, France seems to be awash with guns.

The guns used in high-profile terror attacks are really just the tip of the iceberg. In 2012, French authorities estimated that there were around 30,000 guns illegally in the country, many likely used by gangs for criminal activities.

Of those guns, around 4,000 were likely to be "war weapons," Le Figaro reported, referring to items such as the Kalashnikov AK-variant rifles and Uzis. Statistics from the National Observatory for Delinquency, a government body created in 2003, suggest that the number of guns in France has grown by double digits every year.

Reports of 'heavy gunfire' on the streets of French city of Nimes | Daily Mail Online

Machine-gun shots have been heard on the streets of a French city this evening as it was claimed a 'shootout' took place between rival gangs.

Repeated 'heavy gunfire' bursts were let off in the city of Nimes in southern France after armed men were seen in the area.

Social media videos showed several people running through the street as shots rang out at around 8.30pm.

Initial reports suggested the shooting could have been linked to gangs operating in the area.

Residents in a suburb of Pissevin district in the city claimed gang members shot at a building occupied by a rival group.

 

[Slade3200]

I don't support all the gun legislation proposed as some of it I don't see how it makes a practical impact. But I do see much of it and the inherent intent to keep dangerous guns out of hands of dangerous people. I think its a fair discussion that needs to be taken issue by issue. These blanket attacks are useless to me.

"Dangerous guns".

No such thing. Guns are inanimate objects. They don't act; they are acted upon. They are a tool to be utilized.

"Dangerous people".

Getting closer there. Two problems, though.

1. Dangerous people will act dangerously regardless of the tools available or the laws preventing their actions.

2. It really depends on who's defining what's dangerous, doesn't it? To some people, ideas are dangerous and their dissemination must be prevented and those who believe in them must be punished.

Dangerous people do not need to be enabled by easy access to tools for killing. I'd rather a crazy guy try and kill people with a knife instead of a machine gun. Get it?

How are we enabling dangerous people easy access? We have 20,000+ gun laws.

What new law do you propose will stop "dangerous" people from acquiring firearms?

I'm not proposing any new laws... I was simply making that point that both the people allowed to buy guns and the guns people are allowed to buy are risk factors and should be considered when setting regulations.

You are confused.

The problem with that is when the filthy Liberals decide who can get firearms and who can't we get massive infringement for everybody on our Constitutional rights. We see it in the Communist states like California and in the cities where the Locals are run by Democrats and have control over guns.

They not only restrict who can have the arms but also what kind of arms and even the ammo that the arms use. A major Constitutional infringement that clearly says should not be infringed.

Liberals ignore the Constitution when it suits their vile and destructive agenda. We see it every day.

How does your explanation show where I’m confused? It sounds like a random rant from an irrational thinker who wants no regulation on firearms

You are confused because you don't understand that we can't trust Liberals to protect our right to keep and bear arms. They just don't have it in them to do because their agenda is to do away with that right. They have even said so.

What Liberals call reasonable is always unreasonable.

Have those acts oppressed you or prevented you from getting a gun? Whats your problem with those laws and what exactly did you compromise?

You wanna hear something funny?

I don't own any firearms.

But the Constitution is pretty clear. "Shall not be infringed" doesn't mean "the government can take away certain weapons and ammunition".

No, really. Have you read it?

Same here. Also, I've never been arrested, but that doesn't mean I give up my right to a speedy trial, a trial by jury, or due process.

So its your point of view that banning machine guns and not selling them to say a 10 year old in a 711 is unconstitutional?

I own 12 guns BTW

well anything before the age of majority has been found constitutional, we restrict things like drinking, and voting, and even driving before that, so there is precedent.

And I am not so much a purist as saying everyone needs a machine gun. My issue is infringement of even the most basic weapons by certain cities.

In NYC you need to spend 3-6 months and $500 or so just to get a permit to keep a revolver in your house. That's infringement.

Ok that’s a fair stance to take. There are many in this board that can even admit that the smallest of regulations is lawful and effective.

Like any right, the 2nd isn't absolute, however, do you agree that NYC's stance is infringement?

Yes of course it is infringement, just as any regulation can be called infringement. but the question is... we’re the laws imposed in a lawful way By the states and per the constitution? There is a process for states to go through and a system set up to appeal laws that some may consider unconstitutional.

Dodge. Again, I ask the question, based on YOUR interpretation of the 2nd amendment are NYC's laws as I described above unconstitutional or not?

The problem with the process is local judges who don't care about constitutional rights, and just decide as they are supposed to.

I wasn’t meaning to dodge, thought I was pretty direct. Yes NYC laws infringe as do a u law but they passed those laws in a constitutional way.

I think you are confusing the legislative process for constitutionality. If a State passes a law banning Catholicism is that Constitutional?

That depends on what the Supreme Court says about it

The SC does not create or grant rights, it is supposed to make the government protect and respect rights.

And btw going to the SC is appeal to authority in this case, and a dodge.

It’s not a dodge it’s the constitutional process That we are supposed to use to challenge laws that people consider inappropriate. It’s at the foundation of our government. Checks and balances

 

[Slade3200]

I don't support all the gun legislation proposed as some of it I don't see how it makes a practical impact. But I do see much of it and the inherent intent to keep dangerous guns out of hands of dangerous people. I think its a fair discussion that needs to be taken issue by issue. These blanket attacks are useless to me.

"Dangerous guns".

No such thing. Guns are inanimate objects. They don't act; they are acted upon. They are a tool to be utilized.

"Dangerous people".

Getting closer there. Two problems, though.

1. Dangerous people will act dangerously regardless of the tools available or the laws preventing their actions.

2. It really depends on who's defining what's dangerous, doesn't it? To some people, ideas are dangerous and their dissemination must be prevented and those who believe in them must be punished.

Dangerous people do not need to be enabled by easy access to tools for killing. I'd rather a crazy guy try and kill people with a knife instead of a machine gun. Get it?

How are we enabling dangerous people easy access? We have 20,000+ gun laws.

What new law do you propose will stop "dangerous" people from acquiring firearms?

I'm not proposing any new laws... I was simply making that point that both the people allowed to buy guns and the guns people are allowed to buy are risk factors and should be considered when setting regulations.

You are confused.

The problem with that is when the filthy Liberals decide who can get firearms and who can't we get massive infringement for everybody on our Constitutional rights. We see it in the Communist states like California and in the cities where the Locals are run by Democrats and have control over guns.

They not only restrict who can have the arms but also what kind of arms and even the ammo that the arms use. A major Constitutional infringement that clearly says should not be infringed.

Liberals ignore the Constitution when it suits their vile and destructive agenda. We see it every day.

How does your explanation show where I’m confused? It sounds like a random rant from an irrational thinker who wants no regulation on firearms

You are confused because you don't understand that we can't trust Liberals to protect our right to keep and bear arms. They just don't have it in them to do because their agenda is to do away with that right. They have even said so.

What Liberals call reasonable is always unreasonable.

Have those acts oppressed you or prevented you from getting a gun? Whats your problem with those laws and what exactly did you compromise?

You wanna hear something funny?

I don't own any firearms.

But the Constitution is pretty clear. "Shall not be infringed" doesn't mean "the government can take away certain weapons and ammunition".

No, really. Have you read it?

Same here. Also, I've never been arrested, but that doesn't mean I give up my right to a speedy trial, a trial by jury, or due process.

So its your point of view that banning machine guns and not selling them to say a 10 year old in a 711 is unconstitutional?

I own 12 guns BTW

well anything before the age of majority has been found constitutional, we restrict things like drinking, and voting, and even driving before that, so there is precedent.

And I am not so much a purist as saying everyone needs a machine gun. My issue is infringement of even the most basic weapons by certain cities.

In NYC you need to spend 3-6 months and $500 or so just to get a permit to keep a revolver in your house. That's infringement.

Ok that’s a fair stance to take. There are many in this board that can even admit that the smallest of regulations is lawful and effective.

Like any right, the 2nd isn't absolute, however, do you agree that NYC's stance is infringement?

Yes of course it is infringement, just as any regulation can be called infringement. but the question is... we’re the laws imposed in a lawful way By the states and per the constitution? There is a process for states to go through and a system set up to appeal laws that some may consider unconstitutional.

Dodge. Again, I ask the question, based on YOUR interpretation of the 2nd amendment are NYC's laws as I described above unconstitutional or not?

The problem with the process is local judges who don't care about constitutional rights, and just decide as they are supposed to.

I wasn’t meaning to dodge, thought I was pretty direct. Yes NYC laws infringe as do a u law but they passed those laws in a constitutional way.

I think you are confusing the legislative process for constitutionality. If a State passes a law banning Catholicism is that Constitutional?

That depends on what the Supreme Court says about it

...said the South before the Dred Scott decision.

Your point being?

 

[Levant]

Oh put-lease. That argument is ridiculous on multiple levels. The first is to assume that our guaranteed rights aren’t equally important. Well...you aren’t going to have a free and fair election if don’t have free speech or the right to assemble. The second is the implication that countries with stricter gun control dont have free and fair elections.

You mean free and fair like in Cuba? Venezuela? Russia? China?

Sweden, Canada, New Zealand, UK, Germany, Norway, Australia, Japan....

Look at Finland...a common sense and sane approach to guns.

How gun laws in a dozen countries compare with New Zealand's new ban on semiautomatic weapons

The approach to gun laws in each of the 12 countries varies widely depending on whether owning a gun is considered a right or a privilege.

www.usatoday.com

Finland
Finland, where hunting is popular, has the highest per capita gun ownership in the Nordic countries. Handgun license applicants are allowed to purchase firearms only if they can prove they are active members of regulated shooting clubs. Before they can get a gun, applicants must pass an aptitude test, submit to a police interview and show they have a proper gun storage unit.

Sweden...really? They have a criminal gang problem in Sweden....they like to use grenades as well as fully automatic military rifles...

Crime gangs in Sweden: What's behind the rise in the use of explosives?

The frequent use of explosives is a relatively recent phenomenon, and criminologists told The Local that the blasts can be seen as part of an overall rise in violence and growing recklessness in these criminal networks.

Amir Rostami, a police superintendent turned sociologist with a focus on criminal gangs, told The Local that so-called 'street gangs' are showing an increased tendency towards violence, and that this violence was becoming more severe when it took place.

"If previously they maybe fired one shot or shot someone in the legs, today it's more about AK47s, using more bullets, hand grenades and explosions that we didn't see before.

I'd say that's the biggest shift we see – they're more reckless, they don't seem to care about the consequences," Rostami said.

Fatal shootings linked to criminal gangs have increased from around four per year in the early 1990s to over 40 in 2018. And while the blasts that have taken place in Sweden have caused no fatalities so far this year, they could be seen as a sign that the gangs are unafraid of causing damage and potentially harming people.
No, Sweden, hand grenade attacks aren’t an ‘image’ problem

In 2018 there were 162 bombings reported to police, and 93 reported in the first five months of this year, 30 more than during the same period in 2018. The level of attacks is “extreme in a country that is not at war,” Crime Commissioner Gunnar Appelgren told SVT last year.
-------
The use of hand grenades is a purely Swedish phenomenon too, with no other country in Europe reporting their use on such a level, a police manager told Swedish Radio in 2016, a year after attacks first spiked.

The grenades used almost exclusively originate in the former Yugoslavia, and are sold in Sweden for around $100 per piece. But while only three hand grenades were thrown in Kosovo between 2013 and 2014, more than 20 have been used in Sweden every year since 2015.

More broadly, homicide has risen in Sweden, with more than 300 shootings reported last year, causing 45 deaths. Though homicide rates had been in decline since 2002, they again began trending upwards in 2015, as did rapes and sexual assaults, which more than tripled in the last four years.

Of course, 2015 was also the year in which Sweden flung open its doors to more than 160,000 asylum seekers, more per capita than any other European country.
-------

Dagens Nyheter pointed out that 90 percent of shooting perpetrators in Sweden are either first or second generation immigrants.

Sweden is also the rape capital of the world. Their leftist, open-border, liberals, have destroyed one of the finest nations in the world.

 

[Coyote]

Oh put-lease. That argument is ridiculous on multiple levels. The first is to assume that our guaranteed rights aren’t equally important. Well...you aren’t going to have a free and fair election if don’t have free speech or the right to assemble. The second is the implication that countries with stricter gun control dont have free and fair elections.

You mean free and fair like in Cuba? Venezuela? Russia? China?

Sweden, Canada, New Zealand, UK, Germany, Norway, Australia, Japan....

Look at Finland...a common sense and sane approach to guns.

How gun laws in a dozen countries compare with New Zealand's new ban on semiautomatic weapons

The approach to gun laws in each of the 12 countries varies widely depending on whether owning a gun is considered a right or a privilege.

www.usatoday.com

Finland
Finland, where hunting is popular, has the highest per capita gun ownership in the Nordic countries. Handgun license applicants are allowed to purchase firearms only if they can prove they are active members of regulated shooting clubs. Before they can get a gun, applicants must pass an aptitude test, submit to a police interview and show they have a proper gun storage unit.

Sweden...really? They have a criminal gang problem in Sweden....they like to use grenades as well as fully automatic military rifles...

Crime gangs in Sweden: What's behind the rise in the use of explosives?

The frequent use of explosives is a relatively recent phenomenon, and criminologists told The Local that the blasts can be seen as part of an overall rise in violence and growing recklessness in these criminal networks.

Amir Rostami, a police superintendent turned sociologist with a focus on criminal gangs, told The Local that so-called 'street gangs' are showing an increased tendency towards violence, and that this violence was becoming more severe when it took place.

"If previously they maybe fired one shot or shot someone in the legs, today it's more about AK47s, using more bullets, hand grenades and explosions that we didn't see before.

I'd say that's the biggest shift we see – they're more reckless, they don't seem to care about the consequences," Rostami said.

Fatal shootings linked to criminal gangs have increased from around four per year in the early 1990s to over 40 in 2018. And while the blasts that have taken place in Sweden have caused no fatalities so far this year, they could be seen as a sign that the gangs are unafraid of causing damage and potentially harming people.
No, Sweden, hand grenade attacks aren’t an ‘image’ problem

In 2018 there were 162 bombings reported to police, and 93 reported in the first five months of this year, 30 more than during the same period in 2018. The level of attacks is “extreme in a country that is not at war,” Crime Commissioner Gunnar Appelgren told SVT last year.
-------
The use of hand grenades is a purely Swedish phenomenon too, with no other country in Europe reporting their use on such a level, a police manager told Swedish Radio in 2016, a year after attacks first spiked.

The grenades used almost exclusively originate in the former Yugoslavia, and are sold in Sweden for around $100 per piece. But while only three hand grenades were thrown in Kosovo between 2013 and 2014, more than 20 have been used in Sweden every year since 2015.

More broadly, homicide has risen in Sweden, with more than 300 shootings reported last year, causing 45 deaths. Though homicide rates had been in decline since 2002, they again began trending upwards in 2015, as did rapes and sexual assaults, which more than tripled in the last four years.

Of course, 2015 was also the year in which Sweden flung open its doors to more than 160,000 asylum seekers, more per capita than any other European country.
-------

Dagens Nyheter pointed out that 90 percent of shooting perpetrators in Sweden are either first or second generation immigrants.

Sweden is also the rape capital of the world. Their leftist, open-border, liberals, have destroyed one of the finest nations in the world.

Actually it's not. That is a common disinformation effort. You can't compare rape statistics internationally - laws differ on what constitutes rape, or constitutes an incidence of rape (for example a gang rape might be one, or as many as there are participants), spousal rape may or may not be recognized, the culture and government might make it dangerous for women to even report rape much less get justice so many rapes might go unreported.

Sweden might have a high rate of gun violence in comparison to other Scandinavian countries but it pales in comparison to the US.

 

[Levant]

Actually it's not. That is a common disinformation effort. You can't compare rape statistics internationally - laws differ on what constitutes rape, or constitutes an incidence of rape (for example a gang rape might be one, or as many as there are participants), spousal rape may or may not be recognized, the culture and government might make it dangerous for women to even report rape much less get justice so many rapes might go unreported.

Sweden might have a high rate of gun violence in comparison to other Scandinavian countries but it pales in comparison to the US.

So let's just count rapes committed by first and second generation immigrants. Sweden is the rape capital of the world.

But the left hates women and hates homosexuals. Rapes by Muslims don't count. Throwing homosexuals off the tops of tall buildings doesn't count...The left loves Islam but hates women, homosexuals, black people, and most brown people..

 

[Levant]

I forgot to mention, as much as they love Islam and hate woman, blacks, and homosexuals, they love the Chinese Communist Party and Nike even more than they hate all those others and more than they love Islam. The CCP and Nike literally enslave Muslims and the left loves them.

 

[Coyote]

Oh put-lease. That argument is ridiculous on multiple levels. The first is to assume that our guaranteed rights aren’t equally important. Well...you aren’t going to have a free and fair election if don’t have free speech or the right to assemble. The second is the implication that countries with stricter gun control dont have free and fair elections.

You mean free and fair like in Cuba? Venezuela? Russia? China?

Sweden, Canada, New Zealand, UK, Germany, Norway, Australia, Japan....

Look at Finland...a common sense and sane approach to guns.

How gun laws in a dozen countries compare with New Zealand's new ban on semiautomatic weapons

The approach to gun laws in each of the 12 countries varies widely depending on whether owning a gun is considered a right or a privilege.

www.usatoday.com

Finland
Finland, where hunting is popular, has the highest per capita gun ownership in the Nordic countries. Handgun license applicants are allowed to purchase firearms only if they can prove they are active members of regulated shooting clubs. Before they can get a gun, applicants must pass an aptitude test, submit to a police interview and show they have a proper gun storage unit.

France......

ris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.

The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.


===============
France’s real gun problem

Despite these strict laws, France seems to be awash with guns.

The guns used in high-profile terror attacks are really just the tip of the iceberg. In 2012, French authorities estimated that there were around 30,000 guns illegally in the country, many likely used by gangs for criminal activities.

Of those guns, around 4,000 were likely to be "war weapons," Le Figaro reported, referring to items such as the Kalashnikov AK-variant rifles and Uzis. Statistics from the National Observatory for Delinquency, a government body created in 2003, suggest that the number of guns in France has grown by double digits every year.

Reports of 'heavy gunfire' on the streets of French city of Nimes | Daily Mail Online

Machine-gun shots have been heard on the streets of a French city this evening as it was claimed a 'shootout' took place between rival gangs.

Repeated 'heavy gunfire' bursts were let off in the city of Nimes in southern France after armed men were seen in the area.

Social media videos showed several people running through the street as shots rang out at around 8.30pm.

Initial reports suggested the shooting could have been linked to gangs operating in the area.

Residents in a suburb of Pissevin district in the city claimed gang members shot at a building occupied by a rival group.

And....what is the rate of gun violence and deaths in those countries compared to the US?

That is what matters, not individual cases. The big picture.

 

[2aguy]

Oh put-lease. That argument is ridiculous on multiple levels. The first is to assume that our guaranteed rights aren’t equally important. Well...you aren’t going to have a free and fair election if don’t have free speech or the right to assemble. The second is the implication that countries with stricter gun control dont have free and fair elections.

You mean free and fair like in Cuba? Venezuela? Russia? China?

Sweden, Canada, New Zealand, UK, Germany, Norway, Australia, Japan....

Look at Finland...a common sense and sane approach to guns.

How gun laws in a dozen countries compare with New Zealand's new ban on semiautomatic weapons

The approach to gun laws in each of the 12 countries varies widely depending on whether owning a gun is considered a right or a privilege.

www.usatoday.com

Finland
Finland, where hunting is popular, has the highest per capita gun ownership in the Nordic countries. Handgun license applicants are allowed to purchase firearms only if they can prove they are active members of regulated shooting clubs. Before they can get a gun, applicants must pass an aptitude test, submit to a police interview and show they have a proper gun storage unit.

France......

ris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.

The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.


===============
France’s real gun problem

Despite these strict laws, France seems to be awash with guns.

The guns used in high-profile terror attacks are really just the tip of the iceberg. In 2012, French authorities estimated that there were around 30,000 guns illegally in the country, many likely used by gangs for criminal activities.

Of those guns, around 4,000 were likely to be "war weapons," Le Figaro reported, referring to items such as the Kalashnikov AK-variant rifles and Uzis. Statistics from the National Observatory for Delinquency, a government body created in 2003, suggest that the number of guns in France has grown by double digits every year.

Reports of 'heavy gunfire' on the streets of French city of Nimes | Daily Mail Online

Machine-gun shots have been heard on the streets of a French city this evening as it was claimed a 'shootout' took place between rival gangs.

Repeated 'heavy gunfire' bursts were let off in the city of Nimes in southern France after armed men were seen in the area.

Social media videos showed several people running through the street as shots rang out at around 8.30pm.

Initial reports suggested the shooting could have been linked to gangs operating in the area.

Residents in a suburb of Pissevin district in the city claimed gang members shot at a building occupied by a rival group.

And....what is the rate of gun violence and deaths in those countries compared to the US?

That is what matters, not individual cases. The big picture.

Sorry, you are wrong again. We are told that more guns = more gun violence.....in the United States, as more Americans own and actually carry guns, our gun murder rate went down 49%........our gun crime rate went down 75%.

I have shown you in links that fully automatic military rifles are the preferred guns for European criminals.....they get them easily.

Our gun death rate is not due to access to guns........as both Europe and the U.S. show....our gun death rate is a direct result of democrat party policies toward repeat, known, gun criminals. The democrat party in the cities they control keep releasing violent gun criminals over and over again, and it is they who are doing 95% of our gun crime.....so comparing the U.S. to Europe is inaccurate........ different cultures for one, since they have access to guns....fully automatic military weapons and even grenades, yet their criminals use them to commit murder less often than our criminals do.....meanwhile, our democrat party judges and prosecutors allow known, violent, repeat gun criminals to walk out of courtrooms, on bail, for repeat gun offenses.....and then they go out and kill people...

Then throw in this democrat party attack on our police forces which have led to massive increases in gun crime in just the last 2 months......policies that come directly from the democrat party....

It isn't access to guns that is our problem, as declining gun murder and crime rates here show...it is the specific policies of the democrat party that drives our gun crime rates.

We don't need any new gun laws......we have all the gun laws we need to arrest and put gun criminals in jail....our problem is that the democrat party keeps letting them back out of prison.

 

[martybegan]

I don't support all the gun legislation proposed as some of it I don't see how it makes a practical impact. But I do see much of it and the inherent intent to keep dangerous guns out of hands of dangerous people. I think its a fair discussion that needs to be taken issue by issue. These blanket attacks are useless to me.

"Dangerous guns".

No such thing. Guns are inanimate objects. They don't act; they are acted upon. They are a tool to be utilized.

"Dangerous people".

Getting closer there. Two problems, though.

1. Dangerous people will act dangerously regardless of the tools available or the laws preventing their actions.

2. It really depends on who's defining what's dangerous, doesn't it? To some people, ideas are dangerous and their dissemination must be prevented and those who believe in them must be punished.

Dangerous people do not need to be enabled by easy access to tools for killing. I'd rather a crazy guy try and kill people with a knife instead of a machine gun. Get it?

How are we enabling dangerous people easy access? We have 20,000+ gun laws.

What new law do you propose will stop "dangerous" people from acquiring firearms?

I'm not proposing any new laws... I was simply making that point that both the people allowed to buy guns and the guns people are allowed to buy are risk factors and should be considered when setting regulations.

You are confused.

The problem with that is when the filthy Liberals decide who can get firearms and who can't we get massive infringement for everybody on our Constitutional rights. We see it in the Communist states like California and in the cities where the Locals are run by Democrats and have control over guns.

They not only restrict who can have the arms but also what kind of arms and even the ammo that the arms use. A major Constitutional infringement that clearly says should not be infringed.

Liberals ignore the Constitution when it suits their vile and destructive agenda. We see it every day.

How does your explanation show where I’m confused? It sounds like a random rant from an irrational thinker who wants no regulation on firearms

You are confused because you don't understand that we can't trust Liberals to protect our right to keep and bear arms. They just don't have it in them to do because their agenda is to do away with that right. They have even said so.

What Liberals call reasonable is always unreasonable.

Have those acts oppressed you or prevented you from getting a gun? Whats your problem with those laws and what exactly did you compromise?

You wanna hear something funny?

I don't own any firearms.

But the Constitution is pretty clear. "Shall not be infringed" doesn't mean "the government can take away certain weapons and ammunition".

No, really. Have you read it?

Same here. Also, I've never been arrested, but that doesn't mean I give up my right to a speedy trial, a trial by jury, or due process.

So its your point of view that banning machine guns and not selling them to say a 10 year old in a 711 is unconstitutional?

I own 12 guns BTW

well anything before the age of majority has been found constitutional, we restrict things like drinking, and voting, and even driving before that, so there is precedent.

And I am not so much a purist as saying everyone needs a machine gun. My issue is infringement of even the most basic weapons by certain cities.

In NYC you need to spend 3-6 months and $500 or so just to get a permit to keep a revolver in your house. That's infringement.

Ok that’s a fair stance to take. There are many in this board that can even admit that the smallest of regulations is lawful and effective.

Like any right, the 2nd isn't absolute, however, do you agree that NYC's stance is infringement?

Yes of course it is infringement, just as any regulation can be called infringement. but the question is... we’re the laws imposed in a lawful way By the states and per the constitution? There is a process for states to go through and a system set up to appeal laws that some may consider unconstitutional.

Dodge. Again, I ask the question, based on YOUR interpretation of the 2nd amendment are NYC's laws as I described above unconstitutional or not?

The problem with the process is local judges who don't care about constitutional rights, and just decide as they are supposed to.

I wasn’t meaning to dodge, thought I was pretty direct. Yes NYC laws infringe as do a u law but they passed those laws in a constitutional way.

I think you are confusing the legislative process for constitutionality. If a State passes a law banning Catholicism is that Constitutional?

That depends on what the Supreme Court says about it

The SC does not create or grant rights, it is supposed to make the government protect and respect rights.

And btw going to the SC is appeal to authority in this case, and a dodge.

It’s not a dodge it’s the constitutional process That we are supposed to use to challenge laws that people consider inappropriate. It’s at the foundation of our government. Checks and balances

But you refuse to say yourself if you think a State banning Catholicism is unconstitutional.

Answer the question.

 

[justinacolmena]

We will incentivize states to enact licensing
requirements for owning firearms and “red flag” laws that allow courts to temporarily remove
guns from the possession of those who are a danger to themselves or others.

That is arbitrary, permanent, and irrevocable, NOT TEMPORARY. It is already enacted in all fifty states, and heavily enforced by crooked feds who refuse to enforce federal drug laws.

The Democrat court process is guilty-plea only, with mass trials and mandatory "collective bargaining" with the district attorney. No defense to a revocation of gun rights is ever permitted in Democrat court.

 

[Coyote]

Actually it's not. That is a common disinformation effort. You can't compare rape statistics internationally - laws differ on what constitutes rape, or constitutes an incidence of rape (for example a gang rape might be one, or as many as there are participants), spousal rape may or may not be recognized, the culture and government might make it dangerous for women to even report rape much less get justice so many rapes might go unreported.

Sweden might have a high rate of gun violence in comparison to other Scandinavian countries but it pales in comparison to the US.

So let's just count rapes committed by first and second generation immigrants. Sweden is the rape capital of the world.

But the left hates women and hates homosexuals. Rapes by Muslims don't count. Throwing homosexuals off the tops of tall buildings doesn't count...The left loves Islam but hates women, homosexuals, black people, and most brown people..

Dumb.

And just ignorant.

Not worth replying seriously, but I'll add this.

Even if you except that rape stats are comparable internationally, Sweden still isn't the rape capital.

South Africa, Bermuda, Swaziland, Lesotho, Botswana are all ahead of Sweden.

Oh put-lease. That argument is ridiculous on multiple levels. The first is to assume that our guaranteed rights aren’t equally important. Well...you aren’t going to have a free and fair election if don’t have free speech or the right to assemble. The second is the implication that countries with stricter gun control dont have free and fair elections.

You mean free and fair like in Cuba? Venezuela? Russia? China?

Sweden, Canada, New Zealand, UK, Germany, Norway, Australia, Japan....

Look at Finland...a common sense and sane approach to guns.

How gun laws in a dozen countries compare with New Zealand's new ban on semiautomatic weapons

The approach to gun laws in each of the 12 countries varies widely depending on whether owning a gun is considered a right or a privilege.

www.usatoday.com

Finland
Finland, where hunting is popular, has the highest per capita gun ownership in the Nordic countries. Handgun license applicants are allowed to purchase firearms only if they can prove they are active members of regulated shooting clubs. Before they can get a gun, applicants must pass an aptitude test, submit to a police interview and show they have a proper gun storage unit.

France......

ris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.

The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.


===============
France’s real gun problem

Despite these strict laws, France seems to be awash with guns.

The guns used in high-profile terror attacks are really just the tip of the iceberg. In 2012, French authorities estimated that there were around 30,000 guns illegally in the country, many likely used by gangs for criminal activities.

Of those guns, around 4,000 were likely to be "war weapons," Le Figaro reported, referring to items such as the Kalashnikov AK-variant rifles and Uzis. Statistics from the National Observatory for Delinquency, a government body created in 2003, suggest that the number of guns in France has grown by double digits every year.

Reports of 'heavy gunfire' on the streets of French city of Nimes | Daily Mail Online

Machine-gun shots have been heard on the streets of a French city this evening as it was claimed a 'shootout' took place between rival gangs.

Repeated 'heavy gunfire' bursts were let off in the city of Nimes in southern France after armed men were seen in the area.

Social media videos showed several people running through the street as shots rang out at around 8.30pm.

Initial reports suggested the shooting could have been linked to gangs operating in the area.

Residents in a suburb of Pissevin district in the city claimed gang members shot at a building occupied by a rival group.

And....what is the rate of gun violence and deaths in those countries compared to the US?

That is what matters, not individual cases. The big picture.

Sorry, you are wrong again. We are told that more guns = more gun violence.....in the United States, as more Americans own and actually carry guns, our gun murder rate went down 49%........our gun crime rate went down 75%.

I have shown you in links that fully automatic military rifles are the preferred guns for European criminals.....they get them easily.

Our gun death rate is not due to access to guns........as both Europe and the U.S. show....our gun death rate is a direct result of democrat party policies toward repeat, known, gun criminals. The democrat party in the cities they control keep releasing violent gun criminals over and over again, and it is they who are doing 95% of our gun crime.....so comparing the U.S. to Europe is inaccurate........ different cultures for one, since they have access to guns....fully automatic military weapons and even grenades, yet their criminals use them to commit murder less often than our criminals do.....meanwhile, our democrat party judges and prosecutors allow known, violent, repeat gun criminals to walk out of courtrooms, on bail, for repeat gun offenses.....and then they go out and kill people...

Then throw in this democrat party attack on our police forces which have led to massive increases in gun crime in just the last 2 months......policies that come directly from the democrat party....

It isn't access to guns that is our problem, as declining gun murder and crime rates here show...it is the specific policies of the democrat party that drives our gun crime rates.

We don't need any new gun laws......we have all the gun laws we need to arrest and put gun criminals in jail....our problem is that the democrat party keeps letting them back out of prison.

More guns equal more gun violence. All you have to do is look at the US statistics and compare it to other countries who have only a fraction of our crimes. That is big picture.

Nothing wrong with requiring background checks, education, and enough skill to make sure you can hit what you are aiming at. If it saves lives it is worth it.

 

[2aguy]

Actually it's not. That is a common disinformation effort. You can't compare rape statistics internationally - laws differ on what constitutes rape, or constitutes an incidence of rape (for example a gang rape might be one, or as many as there are participants), spousal rape may or may not be recognized, the culture and government might make it dangerous for women to even report rape much less get justice so many rapes might go unreported.

Sweden might have a high rate of gun violence in comparison to other Scandinavian countries but it pales in comparison to the US.

So let's just count rapes committed by first and second generation immigrants. Sweden is the rape capital of the world.

But the left hates women and hates homosexuals. Rapes by Muslims don't count. Throwing homosexuals off the tops of tall buildings doesn't count...The left loves Islam but hates women, homosexuals, black people, and most brown people..

Dumb.

And just ignorant.

Not worth replying seriously, but I'll add this.

Even if you except that rape stats are comparable internationally, Sweden still isn't the rape capital.

South Africa, Bermuda, Swaziland, Lesotho, Botswana are all ahead of Sweden.

Oh put-lease. That argument is ridiculous on multiple levels. The first is to assume that our guaranteed rights aren’t equally important. Well...you aren’t going to have a free and fair election if don’t have free speech or the right to assemble. The second is the implication that countries with stricter gun control dont have free and fair elections.

You mean free and fair like in Cuba? Venezuela? Russia? China?

Sweden, Canada, New Zealand, UK, Germany, Norway, Australia, Japan....

Look at Finland...a common sense and sane approach to guns.

How gun laws in a dozen countries compare with New Zealand's new ban on semiautomatic weapons

The approach to gun laws in each of the 12 countries varies widely depending on whether owning a gun is considered a right or a privilege.

www.usatoday.com

Finland
Finland, where hunting is popular, has the highest per capita gun ownership in the Nordic countries. Handgun license applicants are allowed to purchase firearms only if they can prove they are active members of regulated shooting clubs. Before they can get a gun, applicants must pass an aptitude test, submit to a police interview and show they have a proper gun storage unit.

France......

ris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.

The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.


===============
France’s real gun problem

Despite these strict laws, France seems to be awash with guns.

The guns used in high-profile terror attacks are really just the tip of the iceberg. In 2012, French authorities estimated that there were around 30,000 guns illegally in the country, many likely used by gangs for criminal activities.

Of those guns, around 4,000 were likely to be "war weapons," Le Figaro reported, referring to items such as the Kalashnikov AK-variant rifles and Uzis. Statistics from the National Observatory for Delinquency, a government body created in 2003, suggest that the number of guns in France has grown by double digits every year.

Reports of 'heavy gunfire' on the streets of French city of Nimes | Daily Mail Online

Machine-gun shots have been heard on the streets of a French city this evening as it was claimed a 'shootout' took place between rival gangs.

Repeated 'heavy gunfire' bursts were let off in the city of Nimes in southern France after armed men were seen in the area.

Social media videos showed several people running through the street as shots rang out at around 8.30pm.

Initial reports suggested the shooting could have been linked to gangs operating in the area.

Residents in a suburb of Pissevin district in the city claimed gang members shot at a building occupied by a rival group.

And....what is the rate of gun violence and deaths in those countries compared to the US?

That is what matters, not individual cases. The big picture.

Sorry, you are wrong again. We are told that more guns = more gun violence.....in the United States, as more Americans own and actually carry guns, our gun murder rate went down 49%........our gun crime rate went down 75%.

I have shown you in links that fully automatic military rifles are the preferred guns for European criminals.....they get them easily.

Our gun death rate is not due to access to guns........as both Europe and the U.S. show....our gun death rate is a direct result of democrat party policies toward repeat, known, gun criminals. The democrat party in the cities they control keep releasing violent gun criminals over and over again, and it is they who are doing 95% of our gun crime.....so comparing the U.S. to Europe is inaccurate........ different cultures for one, since they have access to guns....fully automatic military weapons and even grenades, yet their criminals use them to commit murder less often than our criminals do.....meanwhile, our democrat party judges and prosecutors allow known, violent, repeat gun criminals to walk out of courtrooms, on bail, for repeat gun offenses.....and then they go out and kill people...

Then throw in this democrat party attack on our police forces which have led to massive increases in gun crime in just the last 2 months......policies that come directly from the democrat party....

It isn't access to guns that is our problem, as declining gun murder and crime rates here show...it is the specific policies of the democrat party that drives our gun crime rates.

We don't need any new gun laws......we have all the gun laws we need to arrest and put gun criminals in jail....our problem is that the democrat party keeps letting them back out of prison.

More guns equal more gun violence. All you have to do is look at the US statistics and compare it to other countries who have only a fraction of our crimes. That is big picture.

Nothing wrong with requiring background checks, education, and enough skill to make sure you can hit what you are aiming at. If it saves lives it is worth it.

More guns equal more gun violence.

And you are wrong....by 27 years of actual experience here in the U.S.....

You state....

More guns equal more gun violence.

Then how do you explain this.......

Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 18.6 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

You can't explain it since it disproves your statement....

 

[2aguy]

Actually it's not. That is a common disinformation effort. You can't compare rape statistics internationally - laws differ on what constitutes rape, or constitutes an incidence of rape (for example a gang rape might be one, or as many as there are participants), spousal rape may or may not be recognized, the culture and government might make it dangerous for women to even report rape much less get justice so many rapes might go unreported.

Sweden might have a high rate of gun violence in comparison to other Scandinavian countries but it pales in comparison to the US.

So let's just count rapes committed by first and second generation immigrants. Sweden is the rape capital of the world.

But the left hates women and hates homosexuals. Rapes by Muslims don't count. Throwing homosexuals off the tops of tall buildings doesn't count...The left loves Islam but hates women, homosexuals, black people, and most brown people..

Dumb.

And just ignorant.

Not worth replying seriously, but I'll add this.

Even if you except that rape stats are comparable internationally, Sweden still isn't the rape capital.

South Africa, Bermuda, Swaziland, Lesotho, Botswana are all ahead of Sweden.

Oh put-lease. That argument is ridiculous on multiple levels. The first is to assume that our guaranteed rights aren’t equally important. Well...you aren’t going to have a free and fair election if don’t have free speech or the right to assemble. The second is the implication that countries with stricter gun control dont have free and fair elections.

You mean free and fair like in Cuba? Venezuela? Russia? China?

Sweden, Canada, New Zealand, UK, Germany, Norway, Australia, Japan....

Look at Finland...a common sense and sane approach to guns.

How gun laws in a dozen countries compare with New Zealand's new ban on semiautomatic weapons

The approach to gun laws in each of the 12 countries varies widely depending on whether owning a gun is considered a right or a privilege.

www.usatoday.com

Finland
Finland, where hunting is popular, has the highest per capita gun ownership in the Nordic countries. Handgun license applicants are allowed to purchase firearms only if they can prove they are active members of regulated shooting clubs. Before they can get a gun, applicants must pass an aptitude test, submit to a police interview and show they have a proper gun storage unit.

France......

ris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.

The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.


===============
France’s real gun problem

Despite these strict laws, France seems to be awash with guns.

The guns used in high-profile terror attacks are really just the tip of the iceberg. In 2012, French authorities estimated that there were around 30,000 guns illegally in the country, many likely used by gangs for criminal activities.

Of those guns, around 4,000 were likely to be "war weapons," Le Figaro reported, referring to items such as the Kalashnikov AK-variant rifles and Uzis. Statistics from the National Observatory for Delinquency, a government body created in 2003, suggest that the number of guns in France has grown by double digits every year.

Reports of 'heavy gunfire' on the streets of French city of Nimes | Daily Mail Online

Machine-gun shots have been heard on the streets of a French city this evening as it was claimed a 'shootout' took place between rival gangs.

Repeated 'heavy gunfire' bursts were let off in the city of Nimes in southern France after armed men were seen in the area.

Social media videos showed several people running through the street as shots rang out at around 8.30pm.

Initial reports suggested the shooting could have been linked to gangs operating in the area.

Residents in a suburb of Pissevin district in the city claimed gang members shot at a building occupied by a rival group.

And....what is the rate of gun violence and deaths in those countries compared to the US?

That is what matters, not individual cases. The big picture.

Sorry, you are wrong again. We are told that more guns = more gun violence.....in the United States, as more Americans own and actually carry guns, our gun murder rate went down 49%........our gun crime rate went down 75%.

I have shown you in links that fully automatic military rifles are the preferred guns for European criminals.....they get them easily.

Our gun death rate is not due to access to guns........as both Europe and the U.S. show....our gun death rate is a direct result of democrat party policies toward repeat, known, gun criminals. The democrat party in the cities they control keep releasing violent gun criminals over and over again, and it is they who are doing 95% of our gun crime.....so comparing the U.S. to Europe is inaccurate........ different cultures for one, since they have access to guns....fully automatic military weapons and even grenades, yet their criminals use them to commit murder less often than our criminals do.....meanwhile, our democrat party judges and prosecutors allow known, violent, repeat gun criminals to walk out of courtrooms, on bail, for repeat gun offenses.....and then they go out and kill people...

Then throw in this democrat party attack on our police forces which have led to massive increases in gun crime in just the last 2 months......policies that come directly from the democrat party....

It isn't access to guns that is our problem, as declining gun murder and crime rates here show...it is the specific policies of the democrat party that drives our gun crime rates.

We don't need any new gun laws......we have all the gun laws we need to arrest and put gun criminals in jail....our problem is that the democrat party keeps letting them back out of prison.

More guns equal more gun violence. All you have to do is look at the US statistics and compare it to other countries who have only a fraction of our crimes. That is big picture.

Nothing wrong with requiring background checks, education, and enough skill to make sure you can hit what you are aiming at. If it saves lives it is worth it.

Background checks and mandatory training are no different from Poll Taxes and Literacy tests for voting.....they can and will be used to deny access to the Right to own and carry guns.