Democrats Fast-Track Bill To Override Hobby Lobby Decision

[jillian]

True enough. ANd the word "Corporations" isn't there, either.

ANd since Hobby Lobby isn't an "establishment of religion", it can't claim a religious privilage.

"...or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

You lose. Accept it.

In the long run, you are telling the 99% of women who use contraception that their choices are dependent on the religious whims of their employers.

I seriously think you guys should run on that in 2014 and 2016.

oh i hope so.

 

[JoeB131]

"...or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

You lose. Accept it.

In the long run, you are telling the 99% of women who use contraception that their choices are dependent on the religious whims of their employers.

I seriously think you guys should run on that in 2014 and 2016.

No one is saying that except you. If you want something that your insurance doesnt pay for, buy it yourself. Novel concept I know.

Or we just redefine insurance to cover everything.

Again, the Insurance companies have no problem covering contraception. It's cost effective.

It's the few Bible thumping employers trying to please Baby Jesus.

 

[JoeB131]

[
And yet the left claims the American health care industry won't have any problems absorbing millions of patients newly-covered by Obamacare.

I see you agree with us thinking people that it's going to be a disaster.

The American Health care system is ALREADY absorbing the uninsured.

Those fucking poor people, they just refuse to fucking die because they are poor.

They show up at Emergency Rooms and expect to be treated. And when they skip out on their bills, the Hospitals end up passing the costs along to those of us who can pay.

Going back to that $50,000 of medical bills that cost me my last job and cured me of Republican Stupidity.

They charged me $50.00 for a dose of Tylanol for pain post-op.

Did it cost $50.00? nope. But that covered the cost of all them poor people.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Your employer is not "buying you stuff", you are earning health coverage as part of your compensation for labor performed.

It is a perq, not a right.

It's neither a perq nor a right. it's compensation. That's what it was designed for, to be additional compensation to attract talent in a time period where the government froze wages when unemployment was low.

All ACA did was standardize what constituted a valid insurance policy.

No. ACA is forcing employers to provide that perq, and it is dictating the terms of that perq.

You idiots have now made every worker hostage to the government and their employers.

You should be getting nothing more than a paycheck from your employer. If you morons want birth control, then NO ONE CAN TAKE THAT FROM YOU IF YOU BUY YOUR OWN INSURANCE.

Instead, you are demanding the government decide what you need, and to force employers to provide what the government decides you need. Jesus Christ, you people are dumbasses.

And now the government has decided your employer doesn't have to provide you a particular perq.

You are too stupid to know how stupid you are.

Well, namecalling aside. (Again, I usually like your posts, compared to other people) Health Insurance is essentially a form of compensation.

Here's the thing. as I pointed out earlier and everyone avoided, in most Employer provided plans, you and your employer pay a certain amount in for the plan. Usually about $5000 a person or $10,000 for a family. Said amount is calculated into your cost of employment and the value you bring to the company is expected to offset your pay, your insurance and other benefits, and then create enough additional revenue to make the company a profit.

But most of us are not running up $5000 a year in medical expenses, most years. In between 1992 and 2006, I doubt I went to the doctor more than once or twice a year, usually for something petty like a cold that wouldn't go away a shot for a sore shoulder. So I was paying/earning more to go into that coverage than was being paid out for my benefit.

Then I had 2007, the year that cured me of Republicanism. I ran up $50,000 in medical expenses between two operations and subsequent therapy and after treatments. And oddly, the company was in a big hurry to get rid of me after that.

So in my case, I paid more in than I got out, up until I didn't.

Now, if we ran health insurance like car insurance, this wouldn't be an issue. A 25 year old woman could easily get a policy for a lot less than $5000.00 that covered every kind of birth control she wanted. And a man of my age with medical issues couldn't get a policy for $5000 for love or money.

In short, Hobby Lobby is able to get the benefits of collectivization, but not the penalties, which means you have to pay for a few treatments your Imaginary Friend in the Sky doesn't like.

How many times do I have to point out that the fucking law disagrees with your assessment of health insurance as compensation?

In short, everything you claim is based on a lie.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

W

No one has claimed it was an establishment of religion. What a ridiculous straw man.

The owners of hobby lobby, however, have the right to religious expression. The fact that you seem to think the federal government has the power to rob then of that right.

Well, of course it does.

If Hobby Lobby wanted to fire an employee for not belonging to their religion, or for living a lifestyle they didn't approve of, their "religious expression" would go right out the window. That would be discrimination.

Hobby Lobby wants to dictate how a third party (their insurance company) manages health care based on a religous belief.

When did they do that, oh he who is always wrong?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No it doesn't, asshole. If I don't t like the benefits one auto insurance company is offering, I can choose another. THere's no rule that says I have to take X, Y, Z benefits for my car insurance. In fact, most car insurance companies allow you to choose from a smorgasboard of benefits. So long as you purchase the state required minimums, you can get pretty much whatever you want.

You theory insurance "collectivization" is obvious horseshit. It only obtains when government sticks its nose into the arrangement.

Here's the thing. If I don't like the insurance Allstate is giving me for my car, I can go to Progressive or Geico or State Farm.

If I don't like the insurance Cigna is giving me at my job, my only real option is to quit my job and then hope that my employer is not going to offer a form of insurance that sucks just as bad or maybe a little worse.

Of course, all insurance is collectivization. And frankly, most states REQUIRE you to get insurance if you want to drive a car.

If you don't like the insurance your company is providing why the fuck do you support the government limiting your fucking options? Is it because you are actually so stupid you don't know that by supporting Obamacare you are getting the exact same thing you claim to hate?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

True enough. ANd the word "Corporations" isn't there, either.

ANd since Hobby Lobby isn't an "establishment of religion", it can't claim a religious privilage.

"...or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

You lose. Accept it.

In the long run, you are telling the 99% of women who use contraception that their choices are dependent on the religious whims of their employers.

I seriously think you guys should run on that in 2014 and 2016.

In the long run you are saying that 100% of everyone is dependent on the whims of the government, and are lying about the whims of the employer.

 

[Listening]

"...or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

You lose. Accept it.

In the long run, you are telling the 99% of women who use contraception that their choices are dependent on the religious whims of their employers.

I seriously think you guys should run on that in 2014 and 2016.

oh i hope so.

STFU Schillian.

You can kiss the Senate good-bye.

I know....you'll blame it on gerrymandering.

Moron.

 

[Bush92]

Typical of the communist left wanting to force their beliefs on American people.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

[

And as I have said many times, this gigantic employer-sponsored insurance boondoggle bends the cost of healthcare in America up. This is what makes it a dead giveaway that ObamaCare was not about bringing down the cost of healthcare.

The employer mandate which forces EVERY employer to provide this perq was Obama's way of giving a giant sop to labor unions. It achieved an ends at which labor unions had failed. This had NOTHING to do with reforming healthcare and making life better for Americans.

You fools don't want freedom to choose for yourselves, or for employers to have the freedom to choose their pay and compensation structure.

You want totalitarianism. You want the government deciding what you should have provided to you. This is sheer insanity.

I'm not sure if it bends it up as it collectivizes the risk.

Again, when I was in my 20's, when the US Army covered my health issues, I almost never went to the doctor. I had this operation on my feet to correct a bunion, but that was about it.

In my 40's and 50's, I had a whole slew of medical issues. Sleep Apena, arthritis, high blood pressure, a few things I don't want to discuss publicly.

In my 60's or 70's, no private insurance would touch me, and I know it.

YOu see, the problem with the pre-ACA system is that private insurance wouldn't cover the people who need health care the most.

ObamaCare's main flaw is that it wasn't allowed to have a public option or a MediCare buy in, and the Private Insurance System was expected to cover people they otherwise didn't want to cover.

When the simplest solution would simply be to have single payer. Eliminate all the middle men, direct payment from a consolidated fund to providers.

If you are actually in your 70s you can get free insurance through the fucking government, not to mention your VA benefits, so ranting about the fact that insurance wouldn't cover you just proves you aren't capable of dealing with facts.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

In the long run, you are telling the 99% of women who use contraception that their choices are dependent on the religious whims of their employers.

I seriously think you guys should run on that in 2014 and 2016.

No one is saying that except you. If you want something that your insurance doesnt pay for, buy it yourself. Novel concept I know.

Or we just redefine insurance to cover everything.

Again, the Insurance companies have no problem covering contraception. It's cost effective.

It's the few Bible thumping employers trying to please Baby Jesus.

If you are right, why the fuck didn't insurance routinely cover contraception before Obamacare? Why don't they just add it to insurance even if the employer doesn't pay for it now?

 

[idb]

I'd awear that 80% of this thread is correcting the misinformation that liberals have about the case in particular and the law in general. Yet as often as we do that with sources etc they come back and repeat the same crap.
I notice IDB has absented himself, having been shown that his posts are self contradictory, much less in opposition to the facts.

Not at all...life intervened.
That, and I'm sick of repeating myself.
In reply to your previous post to me I have also never said that the ruling is 'unfair'.
I have said that it disadvantages one group of employees compared to another.

But, by all means, keep making my argument for me and then shooting it down.
You're bound to win every time that way.

 

[idb]

Yes they were idiot.

No one was denying the employees of HL contraception.

No they weren't...ummm...idiot.

No one is claiming that the the employees were denied contraception.

Horseshit.

Hobby Lobby Wins The Right To Deny Its Workers Birth Control Coverage | ThinkProgress

Hobby Lobby Wants to Deny Insurance Coverage of Birth Control. It Should Stop Selling Knitting Needles, Too

BREAKING: Hobby Lobby Wins Right To Deny Women Contraception on Religious Grounds! | Americans Against the Tea Party

BREAKING: Supreme Court rules that Hobby Lobby can deny contraception coverage - Salon.com

Leftists lie. All the time, leftists lie.

Where are they claiming that contraception is being denied?

I'll give you a hint - claiming that contraception insurance coverage is being denied is not the same as claiming that contraception is being denied.
Not such a minor difference at all really...is it?
Read for comprehension - it's amazing what you'll find.

This is exactly why thinking people get bored with arguing with you zealots.

 

[AntiParty]

Senate Democrats are expediting legislation that would override the Supreme Court's decision in the Hobby Lobby case and compel for-profit employers to cover the full range of contraception for their employees, as required by the Affordable Care Act.

The bill, which is co-authored by Sens. Patty Murray (D-Wash.) and Mark Udall (D-Colo.), would ban for-profit companies from refusing to cover any federally guaranteed health benefits for religious reasons, including all 20 forms of contraception detailed in the Affordable Care Act. It would preserve the contraception mandate's current exemption for churches and accommodation for non-profit religious organizations, such as certain hospitals and schools.

A Senate aide told HuffPost that the bill will be introduced as soon as Tuesday night and go directly to the Senate floor as early as next week, without being considered in committee.

"The U.S. Supreme Court's Hobby Lobby decision opened the door to unprecedented corporate intrusion into our private lives. Coloradans understand that women should never have to ask their bosses for a permission slip to access common forms of birth control or other critical health services," Udall said in a statement. "My common-sense proposal will keep women's private health decisions out of corporate board rooms, because your boss shouldn't be able to dictate what is best for you and your family."

MORE: Democrats Fast-Track Bill To Override Hobby Lobby Decision

Sounds good. Get it done.

Why force men to understand they can become parents too? We just want to hump everything. (R)ight?

 

[bripat9643]

No it doesn't, asshole. If I don't t like the benefits one auto insurance company is offering, I can choose another. THere's no rule that says I have to take X, Y, Z benefits for my car insurance. In fact, most car insurance companies allow you to choose from a smorgasboard of benefits. So long as you purchase the state required minimums, you can get pretty much whatever you want.

You theory insurance "collectivization" is obvious horseshit. It only obtains when government sticks its nose into the arrangement.

Here's the thing. If I don't like the insurance Allstate is giving me for my car, I can go to Progressive or Geico or State Farm.

If I don't like the insurance Cigna is giving me at my job, my only real option is to quit my job and then hope that my employer is not going to offer a form of insurance that sucks just as bad or maybe a little worse.

Of course, all insurance is collectivization. And frankly, most states REQUIRE you to get insurance if you want to drive a car.

Your theory was that since insurance was a form of "collectivization," that mean you had to take whatever benefits they crammed down your throat. Now that you've had your panced pulled down around your ankles on that issue, you're trying to move the goal posts.

 

[bripat9643]

Senate Democrats are expediting legislation that would override the Supreme Court's decision in the Hobby Lobby case and compel for-profit employers to cover the full range of contraception for their employees, as required by the Affordable Care Act.

The bill, which is co-authored by Sens. Patty Murray (D-Wash.) and Mark Udall (D-Colo.), would ban for-profit companies from refusing to cover any federally guaranteed health benefits for religious reasons, including all 20 forms of contraception detailed in the Affordable Care Act. It would preserve the contraception mandate's current exemption for churches and accommodation for non-profit religious organizations, such as certain hospitals and schools.

A Senate aide told HuffPost that the bill will be introduced as soon as Tuesday night and go directly to the Senate floor as early as next week, without being considered in committee.

"The U.S. Supreme Court's Hobby Lobby decision opened the door to unprecedented corporate intrusion into our private lives. Coloradans understand that women should never have to ask their bosses for a permission slip to access common forms of birth control or other critical health services," Udall said in a statement. "My common-sense proposal will keep women's private health decisions out of corporate board rooms, because your boss shouldn't be able to dictate what is best for you and your family."

MORE: Democrats Fast-Track Bill To Override Hobby Lobby Decision

Sounds good. Get it done.

Why force men to understand they can become parents too? We just want to hump everything. (R)ight?

You comment has absolutely nothing to do with the OP.

 

[bripat9643]

True enough. ANd the word "Corporations" isn't there, either.

ANd since Hobby Lobby isn't an "establishment of religion", it can't claim a religious privilage.

"...or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

You lose. Accept it.

In the long run, you are telling the 99% of women who use contraception that their choices are dependent on the religious whims of their employers.

I seriously think you guys should run on that in 2014 and 2016.

You mean things wouldn't be no different before Obamacare and no woman in this country every complained about it then?

 

[FA_Q2]

Senate Democrats are expediting legislation that would override the Supreme Court's decision in the Hobby Lobby case and compel for-profit employers to cover the full range of contraception for their employees, as required by the Affordable Care Act.

The bill, which is co-authored by Sens. Patty Murray (D-Wash.) and Mark Udall (D-Colo.), would ban for-profit companies from refusing to cover any federally guaranteed health benefits for religious reasons, including all 20 forms of contraception detailed in the Affordable Care Act. It would preserve the contraception mandate's current exemption for churches and accommodation for non-profit religious organizations, such as certain hospitals and schools.

A Senate aide told HuffPost that the bill will be introduced as soon as Tuesday night and go directly to the Senate floor as early as next week, without being considered in committee.

"The U.S. Supreme Court's Hobby Lobby decision opened the door to unprecedented corporate intrusion into our private lives. Coloradans understand that women should never have to ask their bosses for a permission slip to access common forms of birth control or other critical health services," Udall said in a statement. "My common-sense proposal will keep women's private health decisions out of corporate board rooms, because your boss shouldn't be able to dictate what is best for you and your family."

MORE: Democrats Fast-Track Bill To Override Hobby Lobby Decision

Sounds good. Get it done.

A bill to 'override Hobby Lobby Decision." Are the members of congress that ignorant about what the three branches of government actually do. You can’t 'override' the court with a law. That is not how it works. If you want to supersede the court you need to change the constitution.

Sure - get it done and show how little they understand their own fucking job.

 

[AntiParty]

Senate Democrats are expediting legislation that would override the Supreme Court's decision in the Hobby Lobby case and compel for-profit employers to cover the full range of contraception for their employees, as required by the Affordable Care Act.

The bill, which is co-authored by Sens. Patty Murray (D-Wash.) and Mark Udall (D-Colo.), would ban for-profit companies from refusing to cover any federally guaranteed health benefits for religious reasons, including all 20 forms of contraception detailed in the Affordable Care Act. It would preserve the contraception mandate's current exemption for churches and accommodation for non-profit religious organizations, such as certain hospitals and schools.

A Senate aide told HuffPost that the bill will be introduced as soon as Tuesday night and go directly to the Senate floor as early as next week, without being considered in committee.

"The U.S. Supreme Court's Hobby Lobby decision opened the door to unprecedented corporate intrusion into our private lives. Coloradans understand that women should never have to ask their bosses for a permission slip to access common forms of birth control or other critical health services," Udall said in a statement. "My common-sense proposal will keep women's private health decisions out of corporate board rooms, because your boss shouldn't be able to dictate what is best for you and your family."

MORE: Democrats Fast-Track Bill To Override Hobby Lobby Decision

Sounds good. Get it done.

Why force men to understand they can become parents too? We just want to hump everything. (R)ight?

You comment has absolutely nothing to do with the OP.

And there is where you fall off as an uneducated individual

 

[JoeB131]

[

How many times do I have to point out that the fucking law disagrees with your assessment of health insurance as compensation?

In short, everything you claim is based on a lie.

Look on the bright side. With ObamaCare, you can finally get those meds you obviously need.