Democrats Fast-Track Bill To Override Hobby Lobby Decision

"Gimme, gimme, gimme, and make that guy over there pay for it."

Acceding to this constant demand is how we have now arrived to the point where there are dipshits who actually believe it is okay to force someone else to give them something, and if that someone else resists, they are intruding into the lives of the dipshits.

Incredible. Absolutely incredible.

No, people should have the freedom to choose what they want to put into their own bodies. Not a corporation deciding for you. That's what the Hobby Lobby decision did. It opened the door to employers dictating their employees health coverage. Considering they save money when they can dictate what medicine you get, it could lead to the needless deaths of millions.

That's the true death panel, the corporate board room.

It was a narrow decision for a SELF INSURED privately held company that said it didn't have to pay for 4 out of 16 forms of Birth control that may prevent implantation.

This has ZERO affect on a person's decision on what they want to put in their bodies. it doesn't allow hobby lobby to say "if you use this stuff I can fire you" It doesn't prevent the people from buying it themselves.

It was solely based on the RFPA, nothing more.
 
"Gimme, gimme, gimme, and make that guy over there pay for it."

Acceding to this constant demand is how we have now arrived to the point where there are dipshits who actually believe it is okay to force someone else to give them something, and if that someone else resists, they are intruding into the lives of the dipshits.

Incredible. Absolutely incredible.

No, people should have the freedom to choose what they want to put into their own bodies. Not a corporation deciding for you. That's what the Hobby Lobby decision did. It opened the door to employers dictating their employees health coverage. Considering they save money when they can dictate what medicine you get, it could lead to the needless deaths of millions.

That's the true death panel, the corporate board room.

Which is why healthcare should never have been tied to employment.

Yes and that's why we should have universal healthcare provided by the government. You know like EVERY OTHER FIRST WORLD NATION. Which have managed to have better health outcomes and lower costs than the US.
 
No, people should have the freedom to choose what they want to put into their own bodies. Not a corporation deciding for you. That's what the Hobby Lobby decision did. It opened the door to employers dictating their employees health coverage. Considering they save money when they can dictate what medicine you get, it could lead to the needless deaths of millions.

That's the true death panel, the corporate board room.

Which is why healthcare should never have been tied to employment.

Yes and that's why we should have universal healthcare provided by the government. You know like EVERY OTHER FIRST WORLD NATION. Which have managed to have better health outcomes and lower costs than the US.

its comical you don't trust corporations yet blindly trust the government to be able to do something like universal healthcare competently.

Anything the government touches except when it comes to blowing something up (we are very good at that) becomes mired in bureaucracy and sloth.
 
No, people should have the freedom to choose what they want to put into their own bodies. Not a corporation deciding for you. That's what the Hobby Lobby decision did. It opened the door to employers dictating their employees health coverage. Considering they save money when they can dictate what medicine you get, it could lead to the needless deaths of millions.

That's the true death panel, the corporate board room.

Which is why healthcare should never have been tied to employment.

Yes and that's why we should have universal healthcare provided by the government. You know like EVERY OTHER FIRST WORLD NATION. Which have managed to have better health outcomes and lower costs than the US.

Yeah, but this is America where profit is king...fuck "the people".
 
Which is why healthcare should never have been tied to employment.

Yes and that's why we should have universal healthcare provided by the government. You know like EVERY OTHER FIRST WORLD NATION. Which have managed to have better health outcomes and lower costs than the US.

its comical you don't trust corporations yet blindly trust the government to be able to do something like universal healthcare competently.

Anything the government touches except when it comes to blowing something up (we are very good at that) becomes mired in bureaucracy and sloth.

Corporations, despite opinions to the contrary, are not people...but the government is. It even says so in our founding documents. Of, for, by...

And then there's that whole "profit margin" thing...which, yes, does tend to make me trust the government more than a corporation when it comes to healthcare.
 
And that is what makes you a total fucking moron.

How? Government is by the people FOR THE PEOPLE. Do corporations do what's best for the people or their bottom line? Let's see if you answer honestly.

They do what is best for their stockholders, who happen to be people as well.

how is it "best for the stockholders" for me to have to ask permission from my boss to use a medication prescribed to me by my doctor?

how is it "best for the stockholders" for some religious extremist to say that someone who needs medical care, or a transfusion or psychiatric care can't get it because of the religious beliefs of ANOTHER person?

if they want their business to have a religion, they shouldn't avail themselves of the benefits of corporate ownership which SHIELD them from personal liability except under the most extreme circumstances.

the problem is the right whines that our country should be a theocracy so the whims of every religious zealot should be imposed on everyone else (so long as those zealots are self-professed christians, of course, the world would end for the right if they were muslims). on the other hand, the right also doesn't want interference in a system where most of our health insurance is employer-based because of ridiculous cost issues that don't exist in amy other "civilized" country.

you can't have it all ways.
 
Which is why healthcare should never have been tied to employment.

Yes and that's why we should have universal healthcare provided by the government. You know like EVERY OTHER FIRST WORLD NATION. Which have managed to have better health outcomes and lower costs than the US.

Yeah, but this is America where profit is king...fuck "the people".

You don't make profits by fucking people.
 
How? Government is by the people FOR THE PEOPLE. Do corporations do what's best for the people or their bottom line? Let's see if you answer honestly.

They do what is best for their stockholders, who happen to be people as well.

how is it "best for the stockholders" for me to have to ask permission from my boss to use a medication prescribed to me by my doctor?

how is it "best for the stockholders" for some religious extremist to say that someone who needs medical care, or a transfusion or psychiatric care can't get it because of the religious beliefs of ANOTHER person?

if they want their business to have a religion, they shouldn't avail themselves of the benefits of corporate ownership which SHIELD them from personal liability except under the most extreme circumstances.

the problem is the right whines that our country should be a theocracy so the whims of every religious zealot should be imposed on everyone else (so long as those zealots are self-professed christians, of course, the world would end for the right if they were muslims). on the other hand, the right also doesn't want interference in a system where most of our health insurance is employer-based because of ridiculous cost issues that don't exist in amy other "civilized" country.

you can't have it all ways.

You aren't asking permission. Those 4 items are not covered. you are free to pay for them yourself. You don't have to ask anyone anything.

Again, this is a narrowly constructed ruling. The ONLY possible expansion is towards non-profits of a defined religious nature, nothing more.

Their business does not "have a religion". The people who own it do, and since they are self insured, they object to paying for 4 methods of birth control that may prevent implantation (in the case of IUD's this is a known fact, for Plan B the jury is leaning towards it not being the case).

If all you have is hyperbole and exaggeration, as seen in your post, do you really have an argument at all?
 
Yes and that's why we should have universal healthcare provided by the government. You know like EVERY OTHER FIRST WORLD NATION. Which have managed to have better health outcomes and lower costs than the US.

its comical you don't trust corporations yet blindly trust the government to be able to do something like universal healthcare competently.

Anything the government touches except when it comes to blowing something up (we are very good at that) becomes mired in bureaucracy and sloth.

Corporations, despite opinions to the contrary, are not people...but the government is. It even says so in our founding documents. Of, for, by...

And then there's that whole "profit margin" thing...which, yes, does tend to make me trust the government more than a corporation when it comes to healthcare.

Government has gotten too large to be of the people. Our politicians have become too professional to be of the people. One party rule in some areas has gotten too commonplace to be of the people.

The system has gained enough power where the electorate does not have a real say anymore. We can sometimes direct the general vague trend of where the government can go, but we cannot make radical changes that are needed to preserve it.
 
No, people should have the freedom to choose what they want to put into their own bodies. Not a corporation deciding for you. That's what the Hobby Lobby decision did. It opened the door to employers dictating their employees health coverage. Considering they save money when they can dictate what medicine you get, it could lead to the needless deaths of millions.

That's the true death panel, the corporate board room.

Which is why healthcare should never have been tied to employment.

Yes and that's why we should have universal healthcare provided by the government. You know like EVERY OTHER FIRST WORLD NATION. Which have managed to have better health outcomes and lower costs than the US.

Spoken like a true Socialist.

Ever stop to think that it is because of Left Wing Policies that the Cost of Medicine and Health Care is as high as it is?
 
Which is why healthcare should never have been tied to employment.

Yes and that's why we should have universal healthcare provided by the government. You know like EVERY OTHER FIRST WORLD NATION. Which have managed to have better health outcomes and lower costs than the US.

its comical you don't trust corporations yet blindly trust the government to be able to do something like universal healthcare competently.

Anything the government touches except when it comes to blowing something up (we are very good at that) becomes mired in bureaucracy and sloth.

I don't "blindly trust" government. I trust the entity more than a corporation. A government, in theory and practice, has to answer to the will of the people. Now we have issues like campaign finance reform and recent supreme court decisions like Citizens United and McCutcheon that have shifted the balanced but we still have the vote. That's why it's so slow, because it's accountable to 300 million people.

A corporation makes profits. That's it. They are, like you said, accountable to the shareholders. If they want a higher stock price, they can make a quick decision because they don't have to let 300 million people comment before making it. It's the same with any decision making process. My wife and I making a decision about dinner is going to be quicker than passing a law because it involves less people. So yes it's going to be slower because it involves more people so government can't be run like a business because it's not a business.

Government is not perfect but it's better than corporations running things.
 
Which is why healthcare should never have been tied to employment.

Yes and that's why we should have universal healthcare provided by the government. You know like EVERY OTHER FIRST WORLD NATION. Which have managed to have better health outcomes and lower costs than the US.

Spoken like a true Socialist.

Ever stop to think that it is because of Left Wing Policies that the Cost of Medicine and Health Care is as high as it is?

No because as data proves our cost of healthcare was sky high before ACA. ACA has stemmed the increase by a lot. And these evil socialized gave been able to keep down the cost of healthcare in their countries so how would it possible be left wing policies are driving up the costs?
 
Yes and that's why we should have universal healthcare provided by the government. You know like EVERY OTHER FIRST WORLD NATION. Which have managed to have better health outcomes and lower costs than the US.

its comical you don't trust corporations yet blindly trust the government to be able to do something like universal healthcare competently.

Anything the government touches except when it comes to blowing something up (we are very good at that) becomes mired in bureaucracy and sloth.

I don't "blindly trust" government. I trust the entity more than a corporation. A government, in theory and practice, has to answer to the will of the people. Now we have issues like campaign finance reform and recent supreme court decisions like Citizens United and McCutcheon that have shifted the balanced but we still have the vote. That's why it's so slow, because it's accountable to 300 million people.

A corporation makes profits. That's it. They are, like you said, accountable to the shareholders. If they want a higher stock price, they can make a quick decision because they don't have to let 300 million people comment before making it. It's the same with any decision making process. My wife and I making a decision about dinner is going to be quicker than passing a law because it involves less people. So yes it's going to be slower because it involves more people so government can't be run like a business because it's not a business.

Government is not perfect but it's better than corporations running things.

In theory, yes. But right now we have un-elected bureaucrats making decisions with the backing of the democratic party. Democrats LOVE more government power, and if you think they will limit their aim just at companies you don't like, then you are naive.

If a corporation does enough stuff wrong, it will go out of business. The government can make its own rules if it expands on its power, and it happens to control the police forces and the military forces.

I don't see Costco or Siemens having that level of power.
 
Yes and that's why we should have universal healthcare provided by the government. You know like EVERY OTHER FIRST WORLD NATION. Which have managed to have better health outcomes and lower costs than the US.

Spoken like a true Socialist.

Ever stop to think that it is because of Left Wing Policies that the Cost of Medicine and Health Care is as high as it is?

No because as data proves our cost of healthcare was sky high before ACA. ACA has stemmed the increase by a lot. And these evil socialized gave been able to keep down the cost of healthcare in their countries so how would it possible be left wing policies are driving up the costs?

You are right.. The cost was high. Why?? Because of Left Wing Policies.

You are forgetting the unbelievable tax rate the people in those countries pay to support those socialized medical policies.
 
Spoken like a true Socialist.

Ever stop to think that it is because of Left Wing Policies that the Cost of Medicine and Health Care is as high as it is?

No because as data proves our cost of healthcare was sky high before ACA. ACA has stemmed the increase by a lot. And these evil socialized gave been able to keep down the cost of healthcare in their countries so how would it possible be left wing policies are driving up the costs?

You are right.. The cost was high. Why?? Because of Left Wing Policies.

You are forgetting the unbelievable tax rate the people in those countries pay to support those socialized medical policies.

Then name specific policies that directly led to the high costs of healthcare. Saying a broad statement like "left wing policies" might get low information, less educated citizens to believe you but not me. So name them.
 
"Gimme, gimme, gimme, and make that guy over there pay for it."

Acceding to this constant demand is how we have now arrived to the point where there are dipshits who actually believe it is okay to force someone else to give them something, and if that someone else resists, they are intruding into the lives of the dipshits.

Incredible. Absolutely incredible.
If health insurance is provided as a benefit, the whole of health should be covered.

There is no "if" any more, skippy. Thus, the problem. Employers are being FORCED to buy insurance for their employees, thus making everyone hostage to their employer's plan.

This is the exact opposite direction we need to go. It is well known that employer-sponsored health insurance drives the cost of insurance up.

Employer-sponsored insurance is a perq, not a right.




to exclude portions due to some ham handed religious 'mandate' is, in essence forcing someone else's 'religion' upon others. And where in the Bible does it mention contraception? That topic is brought up in tent revivals, not scripture.

You have that completely backwards. Forcing someone to pay for something which violates their beliefs is forcing your religion, or lack of it, onto them.
Your misstating this. Employers aren't required to offer insurance but they can get fined if they don't AND they pay low wages.

If employers don’t offer minimal essential coverage that complies with the three bullets listed above for any calendar month, and any full-time employees are certified as eligible to receive a premium subsidy or cost-sharing reduction through Covered California, the employer penalty will be $2,000 per year multiplied by the number of full-time employees for each calendar month of the year minus the first 30 full-time employees.
employer-shared-responsibility
 
No because as data proves our cost of healthcare was sky high before ACA. ACA has stemmed the increase by a lot. And these evil socialized gave been able to keep down the cost of healthcare in their countries so how would it possible be left wing policies are driving up the costs?

You are right.. The cost was high. Why?? Because of Left Wing Policies.

You are forgetting the unbelievable tax rate the people in those countries pay to support those socialized medical policies.

Then name specific policies that directly led to the high costs of healthcare. Saying a broad statement like "left wing policies" might get low information, less educated citizens to believe you but not me. So name them.

Hmm, let's see,
Tort system that promotes suing doctors merely for bad outcomes.
Third party payer systems that encourage over use of medical care
Reimbursements from Medicare/Medicaid that are below the cost of the service and must be made up for by private party insurance
Food stamp programs that encourage obesity and poor eating habits
Regulatory regime that makes introducing new drugs and procedures prohibitively expensive

That would account for a lot of it. Some of the cost is simply because health care is worlds better now than it was even 20 years ago. But what I outlined contributes a lot to it.
 
You are right.. The cost was high. Why?? Because of Left Wing Policies.

You are forgetting the unbelievable tax rate the people in those countries pay to support those socialized medical policies.

Then name specific policies that directly led to the high costs of healthcare. Saying a broad statement like "left wing policies" might get low information, less educated citizens to believe you but not me. So name them.

Hmm, let's see,
Tort system that promotes suing doctors merely for bad outcomes.
Third party payer systems that encourage over use of medical care
Reimbursements from Medicare/Medicaid that are below the cost of the service and must be made up for by private party insurance
Food stamp programs that encourage obesity and poor eating habits
Regulatory regime that makes introducing new drugs and procedures prohibitively expensive

That would account for a lot of it. Some of the cost is simply because health care is worlds better now than it was even 20 years ago. But what I outlined contributes a lot to it.

1. Torts is law 101. Which means that someone caused HARM to another individual and thus should be held accountable. And it's not just bad outcomes, it's doctor's negligent in some cases. If a bad doctor screwed up a surgery, that doctor should be held liable for their actions. Tort reform rewards bad doctors for bad work and hurts people.

2. I would say our patent laws help promote high drug costs. They get 20 years to charge whatever they want for that drug then it goes generic. That should be cut to 5 years in my opinion and a cap on how much they can charge a person (co payments can't exceed 5% of AGI for all drugs) which would keep a cap on out of pocket costs to incomes. That way they couldn't gouge prices within those 5 years. So yes in that sense the regulatory structure PROMOTES high costs of drugs.

3. Food stamps are a necessity. But I do agree with the sentiment that it encourages poor eating habits and thus obesity. However that's because they have a set amount of money each month. So to stretch it out, what do you do? Buy the cheapest food. The cheapest food is usually bad for you. However the options in poor neighborhoods are usually gas stations and cheap grocery stores with little to no fresh vegetables. So that's it. We need to promote farmers market with EBT card accepting payments in those areas. Fresh fruits and vegetables are the way to reduce obesity on the poor.

I know I didn't address all points but fixing our healthcare system isn't going to be easy nor cheap. There are many areas that need to be addressed. However, in my opinion, doing nothing isn't the solution.
 
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