Dems find voters don't care about the Mueller report

[Ray From Cleveland]

To be honest, I don't know where the money came from. But it was a worldwide collection, so billions doesn't surprise me and not indicative it all came from rich people.

So what kind of "say" should labor have? How much they should make? What kind of benefits they should have? How much vacation time they should get?

Okay, now what's labor going to do when your employers competitors put him or her out of business?

Whatever power the unions had when America was great, that’s what I want to see again.

Well when the unions had power, what happened? Jobs and companies got the hell out of the state or out of the country. You want to see that again?

So the corporations broke the unions. How has that worked out for the middle class?

Cheaper to buy from China and Mexico. No labor laws there.

But actually I’m all for bringing up wages in Africa China and Mexico. Then we can compete

We don't have a say-so on their labor market. We can't tell them what to do. Trump is trying to use tariffs which has had some success. But we can't compete with foreign labor because the American consumer refuses to support American made products.

Here’s the sad truth. Unions are dead. Gone are the days where idiots can go get good paying union factory jobs.

I’m thinking about uncle Charlie. He worked at Chrysler for 30 years and got a fat pension. Rich as far as I’m concerned. Never had to worry about money. He may or may not have even had a high school education. My dad worked for ford he didn’t have a high school education. That’s when America was great but I need to let that go.

Today, don’t have kids if you’re going to raise an idiot. And if you are poor don’t have 5 kids. They’ll be doomed.

I think we are overpopulated so I might actually approve of the republican way. Personal responsibility, two parent homes, no welfare. All this will lower the birth rate and that’s good.

This is how to convince me.

Until we can change the mindset of the American consumer, you are correct, those days of a person turning a nut onto a bolt and making 50K a year plus benefits are long gone.

Can we change the minds of the American consumer? I can't see how.

 

[sealybobo]

Whatever power the unions had when America was great, that’s what I want to see again.

Well when the unions had power, what happened? Jobs and companies got the hell out of the state or out of the country. You want to see that again?

So the corporations broke the unions. How has that worked out for the middle class?

Cheaper to buy from China and Mexico. No labor laws there.

But actually I’m all for bringing up wages in Africa China and Mexico. Then we can compete

We don't have a say-so on their labor market. We can't tell them what to do. Trump is trying to use tariffs which has had some success. But we can't compete with foreign labor because the American consumer refuses to support American made products.

Here’s the sad truth. Unions are dead. Gone are the days where idiots can go get good paying union factory jobs.

I’m thinking about uncle Charlie. He worked at Chrysler for 30 years and got a fat pension. Rich as far as I’m concerned. Never had to worry about money. He may or may not have even had a high school education. My dad worked for ford he didn’t have a high school education. That’s when America was great but I need to let that go.

Today, don’t have kids if you’re going to raise an idiot. And if you are poor don’t have 5 kids. They’ll be doomed.

I think we are overpopulated so I might actually approve of the republican way. Personal responsibility, two parent homes, no welfare. All this will lower the birth rate and that’s good.

This is how to convince me.

Until we can change the mindset of the American consumer, you are correct, those days of a person turning a nut onto a bolt and making 50K a year plus benefits are long gone.

Can we change the minds of the American consumer? I can't see how.

All I ask is 5%. I just tucked $20,000 away for 13 months. Do you know what I’m getting? 2.6%. My grandmother got like 10% on her savings. So it was important to her to save. So she saved like $50,000 her whole life. She got 10% interest annually so $10k a year. That and social security and Medicare is how she retired at 70

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well when the unions had power, what happened? Jobs and companies got the hell out of the state or out of the country. You want to see that again?

So the corporations broke the unions. How has that worked out for the middle class?

Cheaper to buy from China and Mexico. No labor laws there.

But actually I’m all for bringing up wages in Africa China and Mexico. Then we can compete

We don't have a say-so on their labor market. We can't tell them what to do. Trump is trying to use tariffs which has had some success. But we can't compete with foreign labor because the American consumer refuses to support American made products.

Here’s the sad truth. Unions are dead. Gone are the days where idiots can go get good paying union factory jobs.

I’m thinking about uncle Charlie. He worked at Chrysler for 30 years and got a fat pension. Rich as far as I’m concerned. Never had to worry about money. He may or may not have even had a high school education. My dad worked for ford he didn’t have a high school education. That’s when America was great but I need to let that go.

Today, don’t have kids if you’re going to raise an idiot. And if you are poor don’t have 5 kids. They’ll be doomed.

I think we are overpopulated so I might actually approve of the republican way. Personal responsibility, two parent homes, no welfare. All this will lower the birth rate and that’s good.

This is how to convince me.

Until we can change the mindset of the American consumer, you are correct, those days of a person turning a nut onto a bolt and making 50K a year plus benefits are long gone.

Can we change the minds of the American consumer? I can't see how.

All I ask is 5%. I just tucked $20,000 away for 13 months. Do you know what I’m getting? 2.6%. My grandmother got like 10% on her savings. So it was important to her to save. So she saved like $50,000 her whole life. She got 10% interest annually so $10k a year. That and social security and Medicare is how she retired at 70

Increasing interest rates means increasing interest rates on borrowing money as well. 10% return means banks have to make loans for 15%. How would that work out for our economy?

 

[francoHFW]

So how did people survive before Social Security?

I told you. They moved in with their kids. But today their kids are struggling too. Most of them live in their parents basements.

They survived like people are today with social security. Barely

Only those who were impoverished moved in with their kids. How many was that? You can't provide any data, so your whining is meaningless.

Stfu you’re wrong. You provide data showing I’m wrong

It's your claim. Now support it or shut the fuck up.

Unions did not make America great.

the golden age of the middle class and AAmerica.Then Reagan and reaganism wrecked it in every possible way. Now we need the government to do the job. There is neither the greatest generation or unions to make it happen.

To be honest, I don't know where the money came from. But it was a worldwide collection, so billions doesn't surprise me and not indicative it all came from rich people.

So what kind of "say" should labor have? How much they should make? What kind of benefits they should have? How much vacation time they should get?

Okay, now what's labor going to do when your employers competitors put him or her out of business?

Whatever power the unions had when America was great, that’s what I want to see again.

Well when the unions had power, what happened? Jobs and companies got the hell out of the state or out of the country. You want to see that again?

So the corporations broke the unions. How has that worked out for the middle class?

Cheaper to buy from China and Mexico. No labor laws there.

But actually I’m all for bringing up wages in Africa China and Mexico. Then we can compete

We don't have a say-so on their labor market. We can't tell them what to do. Trump is trying to use tariffs which has had some success. But we can't compete with foreign labor because the American consumer refuses to support American made products.

Here’s the sad truth. Unions are dead. Gone are the days where idiots can go get good paying union factory jobs.

I’m thinking about uncle Charlie. He worked at Chrysler for 30 years and got a fat pension. Rich as far as I’m concerned. Never had to worry about money. He may or may not have even had a high school education. My dad worked for ford he didn’t have a high school education. That’s when America was great but I need to let that go.

Today, don’t have kids if you’re going to raise an idiot. And if you are poor don’t have 5 kids. They’ll be doomed.

I think we are overpopulated so I might actually approve of the republican way. Personal responsibility, two parent homes, no welfare. All this will lower the birth rate and that’s good.

This is how to convince me.

We have to invest in cheap college and training like Germany has so we have a highly trained workforce for the good jobs that all these new markets give us. here we're making it harder and more expensive to do everything screwing over the middle class and the working class and the poor. All to cut taxes on the rich. Thanks GOP

 

[francoHFW]

Whatever power the unions had when America was great, that’s what I want to see again.

Well when the unions had power, what happened? Jobs and companies got the hell out of the state or out of the country. You want to see that again?

So the corporations broke the unions. How has that worked out for the middle class?

Cheaper to buy from China and Mexico. No labor laws there.

But actually I’m all for bringing up wages in Africa China and Mexico. Then we can compete

We don't have a say-so on their labor market. We can't tell them what to do. Trump is trying to use tariffs which has had some success. But we can't compete with foreign labor because the American consumer refuses to support American made products.

Here’s the sad truth. Unions are dead. Gone are the days where idiots can go get good paying union factory jobs.

I’m thinking about uncle Charlie. He worked at Chrysler for 30 years and got a fat pension. Rich as far as I’m concerned. Never had to worry about money. He may or may not have even had a high school education. My dad worked for ford he didn’t have a high school education. That’s when America was great but I need to let that go.

Today, don’t have kids if you’re going to raise an idiot. And if you are poor don’t have 5 kids. They’ll be doomed.

I think we are overpopulated so I might actually approve of the republican way. Personal responsibility, two parent homes, no welfare. All this will lower the birth rate and that’s good.

This is how to convince me.

Until we can change the mindset of the American consumer, you are correct, those days of a person turning a nut onto a bolt and making 50K a year plus benefits are long gone.

Can we change the minds of the American consumer? I can't see how.

Change their mindset how? And what difference would it make -you mean buy American or something?

 

[francoHFW]

Well when the unions had power, what happened? Jobs and companies got the hell out of the state or out of the country. You want to see that again?

So the corporations broke the unions. How has that worked out for the middle class?

Cheaper to buy from China and Mexico. No labor laws there.

But actually I’m all for bringing up wages in Africa China and Mexico. Then we can compete

We don't have a say-so on their labor market. We can't tell them what to do. Trump is trying to use tariffs which has had some success. But we can't compete with foreign labor because the American consumer refuses to support American made products.

Here’s the sad truth. Unions are dead. Gone are the days where idiots can go get good paying union factory jobs.

I’m thinking about uncle Charlie. He worked at Chrysler for 30 years and got a fat pension. Rich as far as I’m concerned. Never had to worry about money. He may or may not have even had a high school education. My dad worked for ford he didn’t have a high school education. That’s when America was great but I need to let that go.

Today, don’t have kids if you’re going to raise an idiot. And if you are poor don’t have 5 kids. They’ll be doomed.

I think we are overpopulated so I might actually approve of the republican way. Personal responsibility, two parent homes, no welfare. All this will lower the birth rate and that’s good.

This is how to convince me.

Until we can change the mindset of the American consumer, you are correct, those days of a person turning a nut onto a bolt and making 50K a year plus benefits are long gone.

Can we change the minds of the American consumer? I can't see how.

All I ask is 5%. I just tucked $20,000 away for 13 months. Do you know what I’m getting? 2.6%. My grandmother got like 10% on her savings. So it was important to her to save. So she saved like $50,000 her whole life. She got 10% interest annually so $10k a year. That and social security and Medicare is how she retired at 70

10% of $50,000 is $5,000. But anyway. LOL

 

[francoHFW]

Whatever power the unions had when America was great, that’s what I want to see again.

Well when the unions had power, what happened? Jobs and companies got the hell out of the state or out of the country. You want to see that again?

So the corporations broke the unions. How has that worked out for the middle class?

Cheaper to buy from China and Mexico. No labor laws there.

But actually I’m all for bringing up wages in Africa China and Mexico. Then we can compete

We don't have a say-so on their labor market. We can't tell them what to do. Trump is trying to use tariffs which has had some success. But we can't compete with foreign labor because the American consumer refuses to support American made products.

Here’s the sad truth. Unions are dead. Gone are the days where idiots can go get good paying union factory jobs.

I’m thinking about uncle Charlie. He worked at Chrysler for 30 years and got a fat pension. Rich as far as I’m concerned. Never had to worry about money. He may or may not have even had a high school education. My dad worked for ford he didn’t have a high school education. That’s when America was great but I need to let that go.

Today, don’t have kids if you’re going to raise an idiot. And if you are poor don’t have 5 kids. They’ll be doomed.

I think we are overpopulated so I might actually approve of the republican way. Personal responsibility, two parent homes, no welfare. All this will lower the birth rate and that’s good.

This is how to convince me.

Until we can change the mindset of the American consumer, you are correct, those days of a person turning a nut onto a bolt and making 50K a year plus benefits are long gone.

Can we change the minds of the American consumer? I can't see how.

we need to tax the rich their fair share and invest in training and infrastructure. Desperately.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well when the unions had power, what happened? Jobs and companies got the hell out of the state or out of the country. You want to see that again?

So the corporations broke the unions. How has that worked out for the middle class?

Cheaper to buy from China and Mexico. No labor laws there.

But actually I’m all for bringing up wages in Africa China and Mexico. Then we can compete

We don't have a say-so on their labor market. We can't tell them what to do. Trump is trying to use tariffs which has had some success. But we can't compete with foreign labor because the American consumer refuses to support American made products.

Here’s the sad truth. Unions are dead. Gone are the days where idiots can go get good paying union factory jobs.

I’m thinking about uncle Charlie. He worked at Chrysler for 30 years and got a fat pension. Rich as far as I’m concerned. Never had to worry about money. He may or may not have even had a high school education. My dad worked for ford he didn’t have a high school education. That’s when America was great but I need to let that go.

Today, don’t have kids if you’re going to raise an idiot. And if you are poor don’t have 5 kids. They’ll be doomed.

I think we are overpopulated so I might actually approve of the republican way. Personal responsibility, two parent homes, no welfare. All this will lower the birth rate and that’s good.

This is how to convince me.

Until we can change the mindset of the American consumer, you are correct, those days of a person turning a nut onto a bolt and making 50K a year plus benefits are long gone.

Can we change the minds of the American consumer? I can't see how.

we need to tax the rich their fair share and invest in training and infrastructure. Desperately.

The rich pay most of the taxes already. How much more can they pay? Why can't the individual invest in their own training and benefit from it?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well when the unions had power, what happened? Jobs and companies got the hell out of the state or out of the country. You want to see that again?

So the corporations broke the unions. How has that worked out for the middle class?

Cheaper to buy from China and Mexico. No labor laws there.

But actually I’m all for bringing up wages in Africa China and Mexico. Then we can compete

We don't have a say-so on their labor market. We can't tell them what to do. Trump is trying to use tariffs which has had some success. But we can't compete with foreign labor because the American consumer refuses to support American made products.

Here’s the sad truth. Unions are dead. Gone are the days where idiots can go get good paying union factory jobs.

I’m thinking about uncle Charlie. He worked at Chrysler for 30 years and got a fat pension. Rich as far as I’m concerned. Never had to worry about money. He may or may not have even had a high school education. My dad worked for ford he didn’t have a high school education. That’s when America was great but I need to let that go.

Today, don’t have kids if you’re going to raise an idiot. And if you are poor don’t have 5 kids. They’ll be doomed.

I think we are overpopulated so I might actually approve of the republican way. Personal responsibility, two parent homes, no welfare. All this will lower the birth rate and that’s good.

This is how to convince me.

Until we can change the mindset of the American consumer, you are correct, those days of a person turning a nut onto a bolt and making 50K a year plus benefits are long gone.

Can we change the minds of the American consumer? I can't see how.

Change their mindset how? And what difference would it make -you mean buy American or something?

Yes. Somehow promote to buy American. The American consumers mindset is to buy cheap, not quality. I don't think it can be done. You can't tell people how to think. But I also believe you can't blame the Republicans or lack of unions either. You can't pay good money to workers to produce a product nobody will buy due to cost.

 

[Flopper]

So how did people survive before Social Security?

I told you. They moved in with their kids. But today their kids are struggling too. Most of them live in their parents basements.

They survived like people are today with social security. Barely

Only those who were impoverished moved in with their kids. How many was that? You can't provide any data, so your whining is meaningless.

The link says 50% died in poverty...

Him and ray would never be able to retire without social security.

And I don’t believe they would have done better not paying into the program. Chances are they would have spent the money and either they would live in their kids basement, and blame democrats, or they’d become welfare seniors.

And they would justify by saying they paid into the system and never took out. No shit losers most people will never take out. You’re not supposed to take out. But they’ll swallow their pride and take the handout.

And still they’ll blame liberals

Try this: Every other year or so, SS sends out a pamphlet with a history of your (and your employers) contributions, and gives you an amount of what you will receive upon retirement. Now take that pamphlet to a reputable investment company, and ask what you would be worth at retirement had you invested all that money in a conservative growth fund.

Then tell me how great SS is.

I plan on retiring at 62. But if I decide to work until 65, and on my birthday, I drop dead of a heart attack blowing out my candles, my family will financially benefit.

My nephew and niece will get my rental property. They will get my car. They will get anything I have in my bank accounts. They will get my IRA fund. What they won't see is one penny of the thousands I put into Social Security; not one dime.

So who gets my money? People I've never met, perhaps people that don't even live in my state, people that can never say thank you for all the money me and my employers put in for them. My family? They get nothing.

That depends. your spouse will be able to draw your social security for life and if you have dependents, they will be able to draw survivors benefits.

You can't compare social security returns with that of an investment company because they are completely different. It's an apples and oranges comparison. Social Security includes disability benefits and provides survivor benefits for both your spouse and all your children in the event of your death. These are very significant benefits. My daughter's husband died about 6 years ago. She and her 4 children are each receiving over a thousand dollars a month. That's more than he has ever paid into Social Security and it can continue throughout her life and for the kids until they are 18.

Social Security is risk free compared any other investment. It requires no knowledge of investments and is recession proof. You can lose your investments because of bad decisions but you can't lose your social security.

The downside is that it will not build an estate and will never allow you to live a life of luxury. For that you need to invest.

 

[Flopper]

Here, from one of your very own, NPR:

Fact No. 1: Last year, for the first time in its 75-year history, Social Security took in less money than it paid out.

Fact No. 2: This year, the first of the baby boomers reached retirement age and began collecting Social Security benefits.

Fact No. 3: The payroll tax holiday that Congress approved a year ago reduced Social Security's revenues this year by $105 billion.

How Payroll Tax Cut Affects Social Security's Future

Look at how in one day rich people came up with billions to rebuild Norte dame. If only they cared about Americans that much. Imagine what e could do.

Unregulated free market capitalism sucks without labor having a say.

To be honest, I don't know where the money came from. But it was a worldwide collection, so billions doesn't surprise me and not indicative it all came from rich people.

So what kind of "say" should labor have? How much they should make? What kind of benefits they should have? How much vacation time they should get?

Okay, now what's labor going to do when your employers competitors put him or her out of business?

Whatever power the unions had when America was great, that’s what I want to see again.

Well when the unions had power, what happened? Jobs and companies got the hell out of the state or out of the country. You want to see that again?

Ok, so unions made America great but unions can’t compete with red state labor who will do it cheaper and without unions.

Those are all the employees who aren’t saving anything for retirement.

Red states take more federal money and red state people make less. If you can show me the red state paradise please do

Unions only work if all competing companies have unions and today that means the Chinese, the Indians, the Pakistanis, etc. In other worlds, in today's global economy, unions don't work.

 

[Flopper]

Whatever power the unions had when America was great, that’s what I want to see again.

Well when the unions had power, what happened? Jobs and companies got the hell out of the state or out of the country. You want to see that again?

So the corporations broke the unions. How has that worked out for the middle class?

Cheaper to buy from China and Mexico. No labor laws there.

But actually I’m all for bringing up wages in Africa China and Mexico. Then we can compete

We don't have a say-so on their labor market. We can't tell them what to do. Trump is trying to use tariffs which has had some success. But we can't compete with foreign labor because the American consumer refuses to support American made products.

Here’s the sad truth. Unions are dead. Gone are the days where idiots can go get good paying union factory jobs.

I’m thinking about uncle Charlie. He worked at Chrysler for 30 years and got a fat pension. Rich as far as I’m concerned. Never had to worry about money. He may or may not have even had a high school education. My dad worked for ford he didn’t have a high school education. That’s when America was great but I need to let that go.

Today, don’t have kids if you’re going to raise an idiot. And if you are poor don’t have 5 kids. They’ll be doomed.

I think we are overpopulated so I might actually approve of the republican way. Personal responsibility, two parent homes, no welfare. All this will lower the birth rate and that’s good.

This is how to convince me.

Until we can change the mindset of the American consumer, you are correct, those days of a person turning a nut onto a bolt and making 50K a year plus benefits are long gone.

Can we change the minds of the American consumer? I can't see how.

No, but even if you could and Americans bought just America, it would create more problems than it would solve.

 

[sealybobo]

So the corporations broke the unions. How has that worked out for the middle class?

Cheaper to buy from China and Mexico. No labor laws there.

But actually I’m all for bringing up wages in Africa China and Mexico. Then we can compete

We don't have a say-so on their labor market. We can't tell them what to do. Trump is trying to use tariffs which has had some success. But we can't compete with foreign labor because the American consumer refuses to support American made products.

Here’s the sad truth. Unions are dead. Gone are the days where idiots can go get good paying union factory jobs.

I’m thinking about uncle Charlie. He worked at Chrysler for 30 years and got a fat pension. Rich as far as I’m concerned. Never had to worry about money. He may or may not have even had a high school education. My dad worked for ford he didn’t have a high school education. That’s when America was great but I need to let that go.

Today, don’t have kids if you’re going to raise an idiot. And if you are poor don’t have 5 kids. They’ll be doomed.

I think we are overpopulated so I might actually approve of the republican way. Personal responsibility, two parent homes, no welfare. All this will lower the birth rate and that’s good.

This is how to convince me.

Until we can change the mindset of the American consumer, you are correct, those days of a person turning a nut onto a bolt and making 50K a year plus benefits are long gone.

Can we change the minds of the American consumer? I can't see how.

All I ask is 5%. I just tucked $20,000 away for 13 months. Do you know what I’m getting? 2.6%. My grandmother got like 10% on her savings. So it was important to her to save. So she saved like $50,000 her whole life. She got 10% interest annually so $10k a year. That and social security and Medicare is how she retired at 70

Increasing interest rates means increasing interest rates on borrowing money as well. 10% return means banks have to make loans for 15%. How would that work out for our economy?

That’s what it was like when my dad bought his house in the 70s.

I already paid off my home. Reward me and people like me

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

We don't have a say-so on their labor market. We can't tell them what to do. Trump is trying to use tariffs which has had some success. But we can't compete with foreign labor because the American consumer refuses to support American made products.

Here’s the sad truth. Unions are dead. Gone are the days where idiots can go get good paying union factory jobs.

I’m thinking about uncle Charlie. He worked at Chrysler for 30 years and got a fat pension. Rich as far as I’m concerned. Never had to worry about money. He may or may not have even had a high school education. My dad worked for ford he didn’t have a high school education. That’s when America was great but I need to let that go.

Today, don’t have kids if you’re going to raise an idiot. And if you are poor don’t have 5 kids. They’ll be doomed.

I think we are overpopulated so I might actually approve of the republican way. Personal responsibility, two parent homes, no welfare. All this will lower the birth rate and that’s good.

This is how to convince me.

Until we can change the mindset of the American consumer, you are correct, those days of a person turning a nut onto a bolt and making 50K a year plus benefits are long gone.

Can we change the minds of the American consumer? I can't see how.

All I ask is 5%. I just tucked $20,000 away for 13 months. Do you know what I’m getting? 2.6%. My grandmother got like 10% on her savings. So it was important to her to save. So she saved like $50,000 her whole life. She got 10% interest annually so $10k a year. That and social security and Medicare is how she retired at 70

Increasing interest rates means increasing interest rates on borrowing money as well. 10% return means banks have to make loans for 15%. How would that work out for our economy?

That’s what it was like when my dad bought his house in the 70s.

I already paid off my home. Reward me and people like me

So you would like to see 15% interest rates again?

Remember that a bank loans money based on the ability to pay. 3% to 15% is a hell of a stretch and makes a hell of a difference in your monthly mortgage. Without being able to do the math, probably three times the mortgage payment per month.

So that destroys the housing industry. When the housing industry is gone, the rest of the country is not too far behind. Because the products that go into building a house are gone as well, and so are all the workers that produce, warehouse and distribute those products. Businesses would be much less reluctant to expand or build new facilities.

Right now we have a rental shortage. There are not enough landlords to service the needs of people who don't want to or can't own their own houses. And I'm sure you know the rule about supply and demand. In fact some places want to institute rental caps because the price is so unaffordable now.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well when the unions had power, what happened? Jobs and companies got the hell out of the state or out of the country. You want to see that again?

So the corporations broke the unions. How has that worked out for the middle class?

Cheaper to buy from China and Mexico. No labor laws there.

But actually I’m all for bringing up wages in Africa China and Mexico. Then we can compete

We don't have a say-so on their labor market. We can't tell them what to do. Trump is trying to use tariffs which has had some success. But we can't compete with foreign labor because the American consumer refuses to support American made products.

Here’s the sad truth. Unions are dead. Gone are the days where idiots can go get good paying union factory jobs.

I’m thinking about uncle Charlie. He worked at Chrysler for 30 years and got a fat pension. Rich as far as I’m concerned. Never had to worry about money. He may or may not have even had a high school education. My dad worked for ford he didn’t have a high school education. That’s when America was great but I need to let that go.

Today, don’t have kids if you’re going to raise an idiot. And if you are poor don’t have 5 kids. They’ll be doomed.

I think we are overpopulated so I might actually approve of the republican way. Personal responsibility, two parent homes, no welfare. All this will lower the birth rate and that’s good.

This is how to convince me.

Until we can change the mindset of the American consumer, you are correct, those days of a person turning a nut onto a bolt and making 50K a year plus benefits are long gone.

Can we change the minds of the American consumer? I can't see how.

No, but even if you could and Americans bought just America, it would create more problems than it would solve.

I don't see how because that's the way we did it years ago. People use to have bumper stickers on their car that read BUY AMERICAN OR BYE-BYE AMERICA. Union bumper stickers were also all around, and union workers only bought products made by other union companies.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I told you. They moved in with their kids. But today their kids are struggling too. Most of them live in their parents basements.

They survived like people are today with social security. Barely

Only those who were impoverished moved in with their kids. How many was that? You can't provide any data, so your whining is meaningless.

The link says 50% died in poverty...

Him and ray would never be able to retire without social security.

And I don’t believe they would have done better not paying into the program. Chances are they would have spent the money and either they would live in their kids basement, and blame democrats, or they’d become welfare seniors.

And they would justify by saying they paid into the system and never took out. No shit losers most people will never take out. You’re not supposed to take out. But they’ll swallow their pride and take the handout.

And still they’ll blame liberals

Try this: Every other year or so, SS sends out a pamphlet with a history of your (and your employers) contributions, and gives you an amount of what you will receive upon retirement. Now take that pamphlet to a reputable investment company, and ask what you would be worth at retirement had you invested all that money in a conservative growth fund.

Then tell me how great SS is.

I plan on retiring at 62. But if I decide to work until 65, and on my birthday, I drop dead of a heart attack blowing out my candles, my family will financially benefit.

My nephew and niece will get my rental property. They will get my car. They will get anything I have in my bank accounts. They will get my IRA fund. What they won't see is one penny of the thousands I put into Social Security; not one dime.

So who gets my money? People I've never met, perhaps people that don't even live in my state, people that can never say thank you for all the money me and my employers put in for them. My family? They get nothing.

That depends. your spouse will be able to draw your social security for life and if you have dependents, they will be able to draw survivors benefits.

You can't compare social security returns with that of an investment company because they are completely different. It's an apples and oranges comparison. Social Security includes disability benefits and provides survivor benefits for both your spouse and all your children in the event of your death. These are very significant benefits. My daughter's husband died about 6 years ago. She and her 4 children are each receiving over a thousand dollars a month. That's more than he has ever paid into Social Security and it can continue throughout her life and for the kids until they are 18.

Social Security is risk free compared any other investment. It requires no knowledge of investments and is recession proof. You can lose your investments because of bad decisions but you can't lose your social security.

The downside is that it will not build an estate and will never allow you to live a life of luxury. For that you need to invest.

Everything has a risk to it. The difference between government and private industry is the risk is passed on to the taxpayers.

If you invest in a family fund; that is to say, an investment company who moves your money around based on the economy, you won't lose anything, and if you do, it would only be temporary.

For instance in this last recession, yes, my IRA account did suffer. But I wasn't going to need my retirement account for many years to come. What happened is it was a great benefit to me in the long run because my investment company was able to buy more shares per pay period. It was like getting in on a three-for-one sale.

Social Security is much less risk, but also pays much less if you live to the average lifespan in the US. If you live longer, you made out. If you live shorter, you lose just like in the market.

 

[Flopper]

Whatever power the unions had when America was great, that’s what I want to see again.

Well when the unions had power, what happened? Jobs and companies got the hell out of the state or out of the country. You want to see that again?

So the corporations broke the unions. How has that worked out for the middle class?

Cheaper to buy from China and Mexico. No labor laws there.

But actually I’m all for bringing up wages in Africa China and Mexico. Then we can compete

We don't have a say-so on their labor market. We can't tell them what to do. Trump is trying to use tariffs which has had some success. But we can't compete with foreign labor because the American consumer refuses to support American made products.

Here’s the sad truth. Unions are dead. Gone are the days where idiots can go get good paying union factory jobs.

I’m thinking about uncle Charlie. He worked at Chrysler for 30 years and got a fat pension. Rich as far as I’m concerned. Never had to worry about money. He may or may not have even had a high school education. My dad worked for ford he didn’t have a high school education. That’s when America was great but I need to let that go.

Today, don’t have kids if you’re going to raise an idiot. And if you are poor don’t have 5 kids. They’ll be doomed.

I think we are overpopulated so I might actually approve of the republican way. Personal responsibility, two parent homes, no welfare. All this will lower the birth rate and that’s good.

This is how to convince me.

Until we can change the mindset of the American consumer, you are correct, those days of a person turning a nut onto a bolt and making 50K a year plus benefits are long gone.

Can we change the minds of the American consumer? I can't see how.

I agree we need to change the minds of consumers but not to just buy American, but to consider quality when they purchase. We are becoming a nation of junk. 20% of new construction has serious quality defects. Our landfills are filling up with major appliances and furniture that's less than 10 years old. My daughter replaced here 23 year old Frigidaire with a new $1600 Whirlpool. It is now 5 years old. She has had 6 service calls. The last serviceman told her the components are so poorly made he doubts that they will last more than a year or so and her best option is to replace the frig. I have a friend who re-upholsters furniture. He tells me the quality of most newer furniture he sees is so bad he has rebuild it.

If we pay attention to quality when we purchase, manufactures will also. If not, they will build the cheapest junk that we will tolerate.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well when the unions had power, what happened? Jobs and companies got the hell out of the state or out of the country. You want to see that again?

So the corporations broke the unions. How has that worked out for the middle class?

Cheaper to buy from China and Mexico. No labor laws there.

But actually I’m all for bringing up wages in Africa China and Mexico. Then we can compete

We don't have a say-so on their labor market. We can't tell them what to do. Trump is trying to use tariffs which has had some success. But we can't compete with foreign labor because the American consumer refuses to support American made products.

Here’s the sad truth. Unions are dead. Gone are the days where idiots can go get good paying union factory jobs.

I’m thinking about uncle Charlie. He worked at Chrysler for 30 years and got a fat pension. Rich as far as I’m concerned. Never had to worry about money. He may or may not have even had a high school education. My dad worked for ford he didn’t have a high school education. That’s when America was great but I need to let that go.

Today, don’t have kids if you’re going to raise an idiot. And if you are poor don’t have 5 kids. They’ll be doomed.

I think we are overpopulated so I might actually approve of the republican way. Personal responsibility, two parent homes, no welfare. All this will lower the birth rate and that’s good.

This is how to convince me.

Until we can change the mindset of the American consumer, you are correct, those days of a person turning a nut onto a bolt and making 50K a year plus benefits are long gone.

Can we change the minds of the American consumer? I can't see how.

I agree we need to change the minds of consumers but not to just buy American, but to consider quality when they purchase. We are becoming a nation of junk. 20% of new construction has serious quality defects. Our landfills are filling up with major appliances and furniture that's less than 10 years old. My daughter replaced here 23 year old Frigidaire with a new $1600 Whirlpool. It is now 5 years old. She has had 6 service calls. The last serviceman told her the components are so poorly made he doubts that they will last more than a year or so and her best option is replace the frig.

I have a friend who re-upholsters furniture. He tells me the quality of most a new furniture he sees is so bad he has rebuild it. We need to pay attention to quality.

Well that's the way Americans think today. I get so frustrated when I go to the store and all they have is junk to buy.

It's gotten so bad that it even applies to our food. Several years ago I went to our KFC for a chicken dinner. I was met with a closed sign. Still with a hunger I couldn't satisfy, I went to the KFC in the next suburb. Again, closed.

When I got home I went on the internet to find it wasn't just my area. KFC was closing down outlets all across the country. The article I read stated they were making a killing in China and opening up new stores all the time. The funny part was they weren't selling much chicken in China, but the article didn't go on to say what they were selling that was so great over there.

People here depend on these FF places, so they don't want to pay good money for good food. It costs a good buck to feed a family of four or five. Instead, they go to places like Church's chicken or Popeye's. Not nearly as good (I tried them both) but cheaper than KFC. KFC tastes the same today as when I first had it as a child, but keeping quality means prices increase. So it didn't surprise me when I found them closing stores. Every time I went to a KFC, I was usually one of two or three other customers. Many times I went there and there was nobody in line in front of me.

 

[francoHFW]

So the corporations broke the unions. How has that worked out for the middle class?

Cheaper to buy from China and Mexico. No labor laws there.

But actually I’m all for bringing up wages in Africa China and Mexico. Then we can compete

We don't have a say-so on their labor market. We can't tell them what to do. Trump is trying to use tariffs which has had some success. But we can't compete with foreign labor because the American consumer refuses to support American made products.

Here’s the sad truth. Unions are dead. Gone are the days where idiots can go get good paying union factory jobs.

I’m thinking about uncle Charlie. He worked at Chrysler for 30 years and got a fat pension. Rich as far as I’m concerned. Never had to worry about money. He may or may not have even had a high school education. My dad worked for ford he didn’t have a high school education. That’s when America was great but I need to let that go.

Today, don’t have kids if you’re going to raise an idiot. And if you are poor don’t have 5 kids. They’ll be doomed.

I think we are overpopulated so I might actually approve of the republican way. Personal responsibility, two parent homes, no welfare. All this will lower the birth rate and that’s good.

This is how to convince me.

Until we can change the mindset of the American consumer, you are correct, those days of a person turning a nut onto a bolt and making 50K a year plus benefits are long gone.

Can we change the minds of the American consumer? I can't see how.

we need to tax the rich their fair share and invest in training and infrastructure. Desperately.

The rich pay most of the taxes already. How much more can they pay? Why can't the individual invest in their own training and benefit from it?

Of course they do, they make that percentage of the country's income too, thanks to 35 years of GOP give away to the rich and cuts and services and benefits for everyone else. Great job GOP and silly dupes like you...

People who live week-to-week on paychecks don't have money to get trained d u h... And that's about 60% of our population. Silly question...

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

We don't have a say-so on their labor market. We can't tell them what to do. Trump is trying to use tariffs which has had some success. But we can't compete with foreign labor because the American consumer refuses to support American made products.

Here’s the sad truth. Unions are dead. Gone are the days where idiots can go get good paying union factory jobs.

I’m thinking about uncle Charlie. He worked at Chrysler for 30 years and got a fat pension. Rich as far as I’m concerned. Never had to worry about money. He may or may not have even had a high school education. My dad worked for ford he didn’t have a high school education. That’s when America was great but I need to let that go.

Today, don’t have kids if you’re going to raise an idiot. And if you are poor don’t have 5 kids. They’ll be doomed.

I think we are overpopulated so I might actually approve of the republican way. Personal responsibility, two parent homes, no welfare. All this will lower the birth rate and that’s good.

This is how to convince me.

Until we can change the mindset of the American consumer, you are correct, those days of a person turning a nut onto a bolt and making 50K a year plus benefits are long gone.

Can we change the minds of the American consumer? I can't see how.

we need to tax the rich their fair share and invest in training and infrastructure. Desperately.

The rich pay most of the taxes already. How much more can they pay? Why can't the individual invest in their own training and benefit from it?

Of course they do, they make that percentage of the country's income too, thanks to 35 years of GOP give away to the rich and cuts and services and benefits for everyone else. Great job GOP and silly dupes like you...

There is no percentage of the country's income. This is why you on the left are so ignorant. You've been trained to believe that we live in a bubble. In our bubble, there is only so much money. When one has too much, it's the reason why others have too little.

Money in the US is virtually infinite. You can make as much as you want. Nobody is stopping you. If you don't have enough, that's your problem. You are the failure. Not government and not rich people.