Deuteronomy 13:6-11

[SweetSue92]

You failed at suffering and reproduction. Hugely.

Childbirth is tremendous suffering; pregnancy is no picnic and raising human children isn't always a walk in the park either. "Evolution" is one stupid, short-sighted and self-defeating god, if the endgame is to create more humans.

You misapprehended. Suffering cannot be eliminated, and some suffering now is for lesser suffering later.

One would presume you could extrapolate that if we didnt suffer childbirth...We'd become extinct. That was short-sighted.

Here's a question. Why should "evolution" build suffering into its ONLY driving force--reproduction? Not as a maybe, but as an absolute given? And why then should any woman not give it a certain finger?

Evolution is an incredibly self-defeating god. Evolution built in a great deal of suffering for me in the act of carrying, bringing forth and, to a certain degree, even raising children--and yet evolved in me a brain that can say "and for what? For 60, 70, maybe 80 trips around your pointless sun? To what end?"

GT, your god sucks.

It’s a stretch to say that evolution built suffering into life, but suffering does serve a purpose.

It absolutely did. Humans have very large brains--that supposedly "evolved". Believe me, women suffer when those heads start pressing down from the inside AND when giving birth. More importantly, human babies have to be born dreadfully early and helpless when compared to other species because of our big brains.

So we're faulty from the outset. Why then should anyone care if we go extinct?

In a godless world, why should anyone?

GT?

Basic instincts.

Plus, introduce sentience <self awareness and intelligence> into a species, and it can begin to recognize the sources of pleasure and pain and therefore assign VALUE to LIFE.

Ive done it myself. I have no God belief, but I value my life.

What is value in a godless universe?

 

[G.T.]

You misapprehended. Suffering cannot be eliminated, and some suffering now is for lesser suffering later.

One would presume you could extrapolate that if we didnt suffer childbirth...We'd become extinct. That was short-sighted.

Here's a question. Why should "evolution" build suffering into its ONLY driving force--reproduction? Not as a maybe, but as an absolute given? And why then should any woman not give it a certain finger?

Evolution is an incredibly self-defeating god. Evolution built in a great deal of suffering for me in the act of carrying, bringing forth and, to a certain degree, even raising children--and yet evolved in me a brain that can say "and for what? For 60, 70, maybe 80 trips around your pointless sun? To what end?"

GT, your god sucks.

It’s a stretch to say that evolution built suffering into life, but suffering does serve a purpose.

It absolutely did. Humans have very large brains--that supposedly "evolved". Believe me, women suffer when those heads start pressing down from the inside AND when giving birth. More importantly, human babies have to be born dreadfully early and helpless when compared to other species because of our big brains.

So we're faulty from the outset. Why then should anyone care if we go extinct?

In a godless world, why should anyone?

GT?

Basic instincts.

Plus, introduce sentience <self awareness and intelligence> into a species, and it can begin to recognize the sources of pleasure and pain and therefore assign VALUE to LIFE.

Ive done it myself. I have no God belief, but I value my life.

What is value in a godless universe?

The same thing it is in a Universe with a God. The importance, worth or usefulness of something.

 

[SweetSue92]

Here's a question. Why should "evolution" build suffering into its ONLY driving force--reproduction? Not as a maybe, but as an absolute given? And why then should any woman not give it a certain finger?

Evolution is an incredibly self-defeating god. Evolution built in a great deal of suffering for me in the act of carrying, bringing forth and, to a certain degree, even raising children--and yet evolved in me a brain that can say "and for what? For 60, 70, maybe 80 trips around your pointless sun? To what end?"

GT, your god sucks.

It’s a stretch to say that evolution built suffering into life, but suffering does serve a purpose.

It absolutely did. Humans have very large brains--that supposedly "evolved". Believe me, women suffer when those heads start pressing down from the inside AND when giving birth. More importantly, human babies have to be born dreadfully early and helpless when compared to other species because of our big brains.

So we're faulty from the outset. Why then should anyone care if we go extinct?

In a godless world, why should anyone?

GT?

Basic instincts.

Plus, introduce sentience <self awareness and intelligence> into a species, and it can begin to recognize the sources of pleasure and pain and therefore assign VALUE to LIFE.

Ive done it myself. I have no God belief, but I value my life.

What is value in a godless universe?

The same thing it is in a Universe with a God. The importance, worth or usefulness of something.

It is not even close to the same. Your life may be useful to other humans, but so what? What is important? What is worth?

You "sit on God's lap to smack His face" when you invoke these things. You are born, you want to live because you have been gifted with that instinct, you die. So what? Why is your life more valuable than that of a mushroom?

 

[G.T.]

It’s a stretch to say that evolution built suffering into life, but suffering does serve a purpose.

It absolutely did. Humans have very large brains--that supposedly "evolved". Believe me, women suffer when those heads start pressing down from the inside AND when giving birth. More importantly, human babies have to be born dreadfully early and helpless when compared to other species because of our big brains.

So we're faulty from the outset. Why then should anyone care if we go extinct?

In a godless world, why should anyone?

GT?

Basic instincts.

Plus, introduce sentience <self awareness and intelligence> into a species, and it can begin to recognize the sources of pleasure and pain and therefore assign VALUE to LIFE.

Ive done it myself. I have no God belief, but I value my life.

What is value in a godless universe?

The same thing it is in a Universe with a God. The importance, worth or usefulness of something.

It is not even close to the same. Your life may be useful to other humans, but so what? What is important? What is worth?

You "sit on God's lap to smack His face" when you invoke these things. You are born, you want to live because you have been gifted with that instinct, you die. So what? Why is your life more valuable than that of a mushroom?

Your assertions dont mean much to me, rationally. Theyre unjustified.

I can justify my value by merely questioning those that love me. I can also value my own life, as it brings me joy and so thats what gives it worth to me.

If there was some everlasting sky existence in some other realm after this one, it devalues this Earth-life in the sense that its not all that Id have...its merely temporary. I dont live my life that way, I think its ridiculous and cheapens things that I cherish.

 

[ding]

Because Death leads to greater Human Suffering and effects more people than Adultery does. Adultery is also immoral. Also immoral, is punishments that cause more harm than the crimes.

Not to be crass, but so what? A village isn't just a group of people, it is the way in which people survive. Alone a person is weak. In a village people become top of the food chain. Adultery causes friction within the village and stoning is a method to prevent adultery. So stoning John and Jenny is, by your logic, the only moral move.

Your job as a human being is to create children and keep them alive long enough to create other children. If you find a little happiness, that is a nice sidebar. But it is in no way necessary to your job.

You didnt apply "my logic" correctly, and humans are not without error which is why you see some cultures consider immoral things...moral. You just proved it.

Correct...evolution's guiding force is Reproduction. Suffering is anti-thetical to that, which is why we conceptualized a way to describe the way that behaviors effect suffering. We call that "Morality," but Im happy to call it bacon or something when it makes people uncomfortable.

Morals are not some magical thing which actually exist. They're conceptions of how behaviors effect us. When suffering is measurable, Morality ~ i.e. the measurement of how a behavior effects suffering, is objective.

That some cultures come up with the wrong answers doesnt mean that Morality is thus magically subjective...it means they measured wrong.

You failed at suffering and reproduction. Hugely.

Childbirth is tremendous suffering; pregnancy is no picnic and raising human children isn't always a walk in the park either. "Evolution" is one stupid, short-sighted and self-defeating god, if the endgame is to create more humans.

You misapprehended. Suffering cannot be eliminated, and some suffering now is for lesser suffering later.

One would presume you could extrapolate that if we didnt suffer childbirth...We'd become extinct. That was short-sighted.

If that is the case, then morality can only be applied retrospectively.

Do you equate morality to no suffering?

 

[ding]

If there was some everlasting sky existence in some other realm after this one, it devalues this Earth-life in the sense that its not all that Id have...its merely temporary.

Whether the everlasting sky daddy exists or not your life here is only temporary.

So your experiences here literally have no value if you believe those memories cease when you cease to exist.

Whereas if one believes those memories continue to exist for eternity then the value of the choices you make become even more important and valuable.

 

[G.T.]

If there was some everlasting sky existence in some other realm after this one, it devalues this Earth-life in the sense that its not all that Id have...its merely temporary.

Whether the everlasting sky daddy exists or not your life here is only temporary.

So your experiences here literally have no value if you believe those memories cease when you cease to exist.

Whereas if one believes those memories continue to exist for eternity then the value of the choices you make become even more important and valuable.

You dont get to tell me what I value...or anyone who happens to value me values. So, mo0t.

 

[ding]

If there was some everlasting sky existence in some other realm after this one, it devalues this Earth-life in the sense that its not all that Id have...its merely temporary.

Whether the everlasting sky daddy exists or not your life here is only temporary.

So your experiences here literally have no value if you believe those memories cease when you cease to exist.

Whereas if one believes those memories continue to exist for eternity then the value of the choices you make become even more important and valuable.

You dont get to tell me what I value...or anyone who happens to value me values. So, mo0t.

I wasn’t telling you the value you place on it.

I am telling you that compared to memories existing forever memories which cease have no value.

You can only value your memories until you die. By your own logic those memories will have no value to you after your death.

Whereas I believe all the things we did that were good and bad will last forever so they have more value because they will have to be lived with forever.

 

[G.T.]

If there was some everlasting sky existence in some other realm after this one, it devalues this Earth-life in the sense that its not all that Id have...its merely temporary.

Whether the everlasting sky daddy exists or not your life here is only temporary.

So your experiences here literally have no value if you believe those memories cease when you cease to exist.

Whereas if one believes those memories continue to exist for eternity then the value of the choices you make become even more important and valuable.

You dont get to tell me what I value...or anyone who happens to value me values. So, mo0t.

I wasn’t telling you the value you place on it.

I am telling you that compared to memories existing forever memories which cease have no value.

You can only value your memories until you die. By your own logic those memories will have no value to you after your death.

Whereas I believe all the things we did that were good and bad will last forever so they have more value because they will have to be lived with forever.

I didnt assert value after I die, I asserted greater value while Im living. And by value, only I can determine what I value, how I decide to assess value and how much value I give any certain thing.

So pretty much your Nunnish opinion of everlasting fairytales is meaningless to how much value I place on the here and now. To me, it's everything. Youre free to disagree, as value is mostly subjective, but youre not free to assert yours unto mine and it's gross to even make an attempt.

 

[ding]

If there was some everlasting sky existence in some other realm after this one, it devalues this Earth-life in the sense that its not all that Id have...its merely temporary.

Whether the everlasting sky daddy exists or not your life here is only temporary.

So your experiences here literally have no value if you believe those memories cease when you cease to exist.

Whereas if one believes those memories continue to exist for eternity then the value of the choices you make become even more important and valuable.

You dont get to tell me what I value...or anyone who happens to value me values. So, mo0t.

I wasn’t telling you the value you place on it.

I am telling you that compared to memories existing forever memories which cease have no value.

You can only value your memories until you die. By your own logic those memories will have no value to you after your death.

Whereas I believe all the things we did that were good and bad will last forever so they have more value because they will have to be lived with forever.

I didnt assert value after I die, I asserted greater value while Im living. And by value, only I can determine what I value, how I decide to assess value and how much value I give any certain thing.

So pretty much your Nunnish opinion of everlasting fairytales is meaningless to how much value I place on the here and now. To me, it's everything. Youre free to disagree, as value is mostly subjective, but youre not free to assert yours unto mine and it's gross to even make an attempt.

And I am asking you what value your experiences have to you after you die. Because that’s what we are comparing.

Your good name only has value to you while you are living. My good name has value to me for eternity.

 

[G.T.]

If there was some everlasting sky existence in some other realm after this one, it devalues this Earth-life in the sense that its not all that Id have...its merely temporary.

Whether the everlasting sky daddy exists or not your life here is only temporary.

So your experiences here literally have no value if you believe those memories cease when you cease to exist.

Whereas if one believes those memories continue to exist for eternity then the value of the choices you make become even more important and valuable.

You dont get to tell me what I value...or anyone who happens to value me values. So, mo0t.

I wasn’t telling you the value you place on it.

I am telling you that compared to memories existing forever memories which cease have no value.

You can only value your memories until you die. By your own logic those memories will have no value to you after your death.

Whereas I believe all the things we did that were good and bad will last forever so they have more value because they will have to be lived with forever.

I didnt assert value after I die, I asserted greater value while Im living. And by value, only I can determine what I value, how I decide to assess value and how much value I give any certain thing.

So pretty much your Nunnish opinion of everlasting fairytales is meaningless to how much value I place on the here and now. To me, it's everything. Youre free to disagree, as value is mostly subjective, but youre not free to assert yours unto mine and it's gross to even make an attempt.

And I am asking you what value your experiences have to you after you die. Because that’s what we are comparing.

Your good name only has value to you while you are living. My good name has value to me for eternity.

My experiences mean more to me now than if I die and continue on. Youre free to disagree with that. but its not up for debate. Its personal opinion.

 

[ding]

Whether the everlasting sky daddy exists or not your life here is only temporary.

So your experiences here literally have no value if you believe those memories cease when you cease to exist.

Whereas if one believes those memories continue to exist for eternity then the value of the choices you make become even more important and valuable.

You dont get to tell me what I value...or anyone who happens to value me values. So, mo0t.

I wasn’t telling you the value you place on it.

I am telling you that compared to memories existing forever memories which cease have no value.

You can only value your memories until you die. By your own logic those memories will have no value to you after your death.

Whereas I believe all the things we did that were good and bad will last forever so they have more value because they will have to be lived with forever.

I didnt assert value after I die, I asserted greater value while Im living. And by value, only I can determine what I value, how I decide to assess value and how much value I give any certain thing.

So pretty much your Nunnish opinion of everlasting fairytales is meaningless to how much value I place on the here and now. To me, it's everything. Youre free to disagree, as value is mostly subjective, but youre not free to assert yours unto mine and it's gross to even make an attempt.

And I am asking you what value your experiences have to you after you die. Because that’s what we are comparing.

Your good name only has value to you while you are living. My good name has value to me for eternity.

My experiences mean more to me now than if I die and continue on. Youre free to disagree with that. but its not up for debate. Its personal opinion.

Right now. But not when you are dead.

 

[G.T.]

You dont get to tell me what I value...or anyone who happens to value me values. So, mo0t.

I wasn’t telling you the value you place on it.

I am telling you that compared to memories existing forever memories which cease have no value.

You can only value your memories until you die. By your own logic those memories will have no value to you after your death.

Whereas I believe all the things we did that were good and bad will last forever so they have more value because they will have to be lived with forever.

I didnt assert value after I die, I asserted greater value while Im living. And by value, only I can determine what I value, how I decide to assess value and how much value I give any certain thing.

So pretty much your Nunnish opinion of everlasting fairytales is meaningless to how much value I place on the here and now. To me, it's everything. Youre free to disagree, as value is mostly subjective, but youre not free to assert yours unto mine and it's gross to even make an attempt.

And I am asking you what value your experiences have to you after you die. Because that’s what we are comparing.

Your good name only has value to you while you are living. My good name has value to me for eternity.

My experiences mean more to me now than if I die and continue on. Youre free to disagree with that. but its not up for debate. Its personal opinion.

Right now. But not when you are dead.

Yes. Right now. Since I live as though right now is everything there may be, I apply my maximum value possible to: right now.

You are free to disagree, its an opinion. You're not free to assert whats my opinion. This is seeming to have some sort of triggering effect. Quit it. Wrong tree, yelpy bark, etc etc

 

[ding]

I wasn’t telling you the value you place on it.

I am telling you that compared to memories existing forever memories which cease have no value.

You can only value your memories until you die. By your own logic those memories will have no value to you after your death.

Whereas I believe all the things we did that were good and bad will last forever so they have more value because they will have to be lived with forever.

I didnt assert value after I die, I asserted greater value while Im living. And by value, only I can determine what I value, how I decide to assess value and how much value I give any certain thing.

So pretty much your Nunnish opinion of everlasting fairytales is meaningless to how much value I place on the here and now. To me, it's everything. Youre free to disagree, as value is mostly subjective, but youre not free to assert yours unto mine and it's gross to even make an attempt.

And I am asking you what value your experiences have to you after you die. Because that’s what we are comparing.

Your good name only has value to you while you are living. My good name has value to me for eternity.

My experiences mean more to me now than if I die and continue on. Youre free to disagree with that. but its not up for debate. Its personal opinion.

Right now. But not when you are dead.

Yes. Right now. Since I live as though right now is everything there may be, I apply my maximum value possible to: right now.

You are free to disagree, its an opinion. You're not free to assert whats my opinion. This is seeming to have some sort of triggering effect. Quit it. Wrong tree, yelpy bark, etc etc

Right. You can’t fathom what I am talking about because you can’t wrap your mind around anything that you don’t believe. You won’t even consider anything else. It’s obvious.

 

[G.T.]

I didnt assert value after I die, I asserted greater value while Im living. And by value, only I can determine what I value, how I decide to assess value and how much value I give any certain thing.

So pretty much your Nunnish opinion of everlasting fairytales is meaningless to how much value I place on the here and now. To me, it's everything. Youre free to disagree, as value is mostly subjective, but youre not free to assert yours unto mine and it's gross to even make an attempt.

And I am asking you what value your experiences have to you after you die. Because that’s what we are comparing.

Your good name only has value to you while you are living. My good name has value to me for eternity.

My experiences mean more to me now than if I die and continue on. Youre free to disagree with that. but its not up for debate. Its personal opinion.

Right now. But not when you are dead.

Yes. Right now. Since I live as though right now is everything there may be, I apply my maximum value possible to: right now.

You are free to disagree, its an opinion. You're not free to assert whats my opinion. This is seeming to have some sort of triggering effect. Quit it. Wrong tree, yelpy bark, etc etc

Right. You can’t fathom what I am talking about because you can’t wrap your mind around anything that you don’t believe. You won’t even consider anything else. It’s obvious.

Good ding, tell the world! And have a nickel. See which one gets ya across the Country on a greyhound faster in 1963

 

[ding]

And I am asking you what value your experiences have to you after you die. Because that’s what we are comparing.

Your good name only has value to you while you are living. My good name has value to me for eternity.

My experiences mean more to me now than if I die and continue on. Youre free to disagree with that. but its not up for debate. Its personal opinion.

Right now. But not when you are dead.

Yes. Right now. Since I live as though right now is everything there may be, I apply my maximum value possible to: right now.

You are free to disagree, its an opinion. You're not free to assert whats my opinion. This is seeming to have some sort of triggering effect. Quit it. Wrong tree, yelpy bark, etc etc

Right. You can’t fathom what I am talking about because you can’t wrap your mind around anything that you don’t believe. You won’t even consider anything else. It’s obvious.

Good ding, tell the world! And have a nickel. See which one gets ya across the Country on a greyhound faster in 1963

I’m pretty good right now. But thanks anyway.

 

[G.T.]

My experiences mean more to me now than if I die and continue on. Youre free to disagree with that. but its not up for debate. Its personal opinion.

Right now. But not when you are dead.

Yes. Right now. Since I live as though right now is everything there may be, I apply my maximum value possible to: right now.

You are free to disagree, its an opinion. You're not free to assert whats my opinion. This is seeming to have some sort of triggering effect. Quit it. Wrong tree, yelpy bark, etc etc

Right. You can’t fathom what I am talking about because you can’t wrap your mind around anything that you don’t believe. You won’t even consider anything else. It’s obvious.

Good ding, tell the world! And have a nickel. See which one gets ya across the Country on a greyhound faster in 1963

I’m pretty good right now. But thanks anyway.

Every time (hah pun intended) that I realize that I'm a time traveler, it makes my imagination go wild with possibilities.

Weird things happen, too - like the fact that we never experience the present because of the micro seconds that it takes for our senses to receive stimuli after they happen...puts me on a bus to 1953 but then when I'm present IN 1953 Im not even experiencing the present.

Crack at 11.

 

[ding]

Right now. But not when you are dead.

Yes. Right now. Since I live as though right now is everything there may be, I apply my maximum value possible to: right now.

You are free to disagree, its an opinion. You're not free to assert whats my opinion. This is seeming to have some sort of triggering effect. Quit it. Wrong tree, yelpy bark, etc etc

Right. You can’t fathom what I am talking about because you can’t wrap your mind around anything that you don’t believe. You won’t even consider anything else. It’s obvious.

Good ding, tell the world! And have a nickel. See which one gets ya across the Country on a greyhound faster in 1963

I’m pretty good right now. But thanks anyway.

Every time (hah pun intended) that I realize that I'm a time traveler, it makes my imagination go wild with possibilities.

Weird things happen, too - like the fact that we never experience the present because of the micro seconds that it takes for our sense to receive stimuli after they happen...puts me on a bus to 1953 but then when I'm present IN 1953 Im not even experiencing the present.

Crack at 11.

I prefer to live in the present.

 

[G.T.]

Yes. Right now. Since I live as though right now is everything there may be, I apply my maximum value possible to: right now.

You are free to disagree, its an opinion. You're not free to assert whats my opinion. This is seeming to have some sort of triggering effect. Quit it. Wrong tree, yelpy bark, etc etc

Right. You can’t fathom what I am talking about because you can’t wrap your mind around anything that you don’t believe. You won’t even consider anything else. It’s obvious.

Good ding, tell the world! And have a nickel. See which one gets ya across the Country on a greyhound faster in 1963

I’m pretty good right now. But thanks anyway.

Every time (hah pun intended) that I realize that I'm a time traveler, it makes my imagination go wild with possibilities.

Weird things happen, too - like the fact that we never experience the present because of the micro seconds that it takes for our sense to receive stimuli after they happen...puts me on a bus to 1953 but then when I'm present IN 1953 Im not even experiencing the present.

Crack at 11.

I prefer to live in the present.

In one's experience...its either always the present or never the present..depending on the time-scale one uses.

 

[diver52]

You misapprehended. Suffering cannot be eliminated, and some suffering now is for lesser suffering later.

One would presume you could extrapolate that if we didnt suffer childbirth...We'd become extinct. That was short-sighted.

If that is the case, then morality can only be applied retrospectively.

That doesn't even make any sense. Humans have the ability to conceptualize the future effects of future causes, based on past effects of past causes.

Conceptualizing is not the same thing as knowing. We do indeed make up stories in our heads, but that does not mean the stories are true. If I make a decision based upon what I think will cause the least suffering and in fact causes more suffering, then it was an immoral decision. If I make a decision that was intended to cause more suffering and in fact caused less, then it was a moral decision.

If morality is cause and effect, then intent is no longer in the equation. Morality is simply an uncontrolled sequence of events that can only be evaluated after the fact.

Im not sure why youre such a poor assertion machine.

You dunno how to extrapolate properly, so whh dont you just ASK...>Saves time, saves headache, etc etc

And then we can progress. Example: you just said we can conceptualize but thats not knowing.

The Law of identity, A is A, disproves that. The Principle of excluded middle disproves that and the Law of Non contradiction as well.

You can KNOW, conceptualize, the future this way. Touch a screaming hot stove bare skinned and you will be burned...times 7 million examples.

Im not sure why cause and effect preclude intent from mattering. Of course intent matters, thats why mere killing isnt morally wrong because you can be killing to prevent greater suffering...like killing a mass shooter.

That was a waste of time dude... you need to SIT DOWN with these things and CONTEMPLATE before wasting time with invalid extrapolations/assertions.

Ok. You are flat wrong. I'll stop wasting my time now.

On second thought, I will waste my time a tad more. I have to compliment you. Yours is the first concept of morality I have seen which is actually a physical impossibility. I am impressed.