Did Alexander Hamilton Hide The Truth?

[strollingbones]

o and they really will not let you piss on hamiltons grave at the holy trinity church

 

[NYcarbineer]

I honestly believe that PC thinks she wins every argument by insulting the other person. I let PC's infinite wisdom tell us why that's not the case.

Well, I guess it's sort of a positive to discover that Triumph the insult comic dog has a mate.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I guess PC just discovered that AH, along with JA, GW, and many others were Big Government guys.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Well....look at that!

Lenny and Squiggy ...in two consecutively abysmally stupid posts.




I'm in a compassionate mood....

Not necessary for you guys to confer...I will accept one omnibus grovel to cover all past and future such failings. Ready?

 

[norwegen]

I guess PC just discovered that AH, along with JA, GW, and many others were Big Government guys.

You mean a government modest in size and scope? Ratification gave us an American government that was bigger than the previous American government yet smaller than European governments.

One thing is sure: "AH," "JA," and "GW" deemed democracy a poison. A government as big as ours is now was beyond any of their wildest imaginations.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I guess PC just discovered that AH, along with JA, GW, and many others were Big Government guys.

You mean a government modest in size and scope? Ratification gave us an American government that was bigger than the previous American government yet smaller than European governments. One thing is sure: "AH," "JA," and "GW" deemed democracy a poison. A government as big as ours is now was beyond any of their wildest imaginations.

As is the scope of technology and the globalization on culture, society, economics, arts, and so forth.

Change will come, PC, and it will not revert to that of the original Constitution of 1787.

Which means you keep your vote.

 

[norwegen]

I guess PC just discovered that AH, along with JA, GW, and many others were Big Government guys.

You mean a government modest in size and scope? Ratification gave us an American government that was bigger than the previous American government yet smaller than European governments. One thing is sure: "AH," "JA," and "GW" deemed democracy a poison. A government as big as ours is now was beyond any of their wildest imaginations.

As is the scope of technology and the globalization on culture, society, economics, arts, and so forth.

Change will come, PC, and it will not revert to that of the original Constitution of 1787.

Which means you keep your vote.

My name is not PC.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You mean a government modest in size and scope? Ratification gave us an American government that was bigger than the previous American government yet smaller than European governments. One thing is sure: "AH," "JA," and "GW" deemed democracy a poison. A government as big as ours is now was beyond any of their wildest imaginations.

As is the scope of technology and the globalization on culture, society, economics, arts, and so forth.

Change will come, PC, and it will not revert to that of the original Constitution of 1787.

Which means you keep your vote.

My name is not PC.

Are you not one of her socks. I apologize. Then you are 18 or 19, and still you get to keep your vote. See, this is a great place.

We are nor going backward.

 

[whitehall]

Hamilton was a walking contradiction. He was a patriot who served in the Revolutionary War at Washington'side but he admired the British system of government. He wrote most of the Federalist Papers but he changed parties and became a Democratic Republican. He characterized Aaron Burr as "undisciplined" but he resigned from politics because of an extra marital affair. It seems that honor was more important in the Hamilton family than shooting ability. His son was also killed in a duel.

 

[NYcarbineer]

1
And in #32, " I affirm that (with the sole exception of duties on imports and exports) they would, under the plan of the convention, retain that [taxing] authority in the most absolute and unqualified sense; and that an attempt on the part of the national government to abridge them in the exercise of it, would be a violent assumption of power, unwarranted by any article or clause of its Constitution."

What a liar!!!!!

And, with the exception of the enumerated powers, "... the State governments would clearly retain all the rights of sovereignty which they before had, and which were not, by that act, EXCLUSIVELY delegated to the United States."





Are we speaking of the United States???


This United States?????

What taxing authority have the States lost under the Constitution that contradicts Hamilton's assurance above?

 

[JakeStarkey]

The greatest contradiction is young Madison vs older Madison.

 

[emilynghiem]

The Federalist Papers were the argument FOR a strong central government.

The Anti-Federalists were the states rights people.

I believe in a balance between the two, by consent of the governed.
Areas better managed federally, such as military or interstate highways,
should be AGREED upon to be handled on THAT level.
Areas better managed locally, per State, such as health care and prison
populations etc. should be agreed upon to be delegated on THAT level.

There is no need for conflict between the two levels.

When we classify animals and plants, we do not need to argue "which level"
is the best to use. it depends on what level you are addressing, whether it is better to
use "felines" in general, or specific "species of felines," etc. to serve the purpose.

We need to be THAT logical in deciding whether to use the state, federal or other local levels to decide or manage policies. And quit trying to abuse whatever level would allow push some certain agenda to get pushed -- that is not the correct use of these levels. We should resolve conflicts first, and decide what level is best for which applications.

 

[dcraelin]

Gore Vidal said that Hamilton, at least at one point after the revolution, was perhaps a british spy. Agent number 7 I believe....perhaps the original 007......Vidal also says he may have been the illegitimate son of Washington as Washington spent some time in the same islands that Hamilton was born in.

Hamilton was a walking contradiction. He was a patriot who served in the Revolutionary War at Washington'side but he admired the British system of government. He wrote most of the Federalist Papers but he changed parties and became a Democratic Republican. He characterized Aaron Burr as "undisciplined" but he resigned from politics because of an extra marital affair. It seems that honor was more important in the Hamilton family than shooting ability. His son was also killed in a duel.

I dont ever recall reading that Hamilton was ever a Democratic-Republican. You may be thinking of Madison on that point.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Gore Vidal said that Hamilton, at least at one point after the revolution, was perhaps a british spy. Agent number 7 I believe....perhaps the original 007......Vidal also says he may have been the illegitimate son of Washington as Washington spent some time in the same islands that Hamilton was born in.

Hamilton was a walking contradiction. He was a patriot who served in the Revolutionary War at Washington'side but he admired the British system of government. He wrote most of the Federalist Papers but he changed parties and became a Democratic Republican. He characterized Aaron Burr as "undisciplined" but he resigned from politics because of an extra marital affair. It seems that honor was more important in the Hamilton family than shooting ability. His son was also killed in a duel.

I dont ever recall reading that Hamilton was ever a Democratic-Republican. You may be thinking of Madison on that point.

That is one of the best avis Ive seen!

 

[TheJedi]

Very intriguing read. The language of that era was very intricate but there does seem to be a few hefty doses of duality in there.

Hamilton was clearly a federalist who wanted an very strong central government but at the same time he was speaking from both sides of his mouth.

The State governments, by their original constitutions, are invested with complete sovereignty.

I think he was simply referring to the states original constitutions not necessarily saying they should REMAIN sovereign and independent of a centralized system.

I affirm that (with the sole exception of duties on imports and exports) they would, under the plan of the convention, retain that [taxing] authority in the most absolute and unqualified sense; and that an attempt on the part of the national government to abridge them in the exercise of it, would be a violent assumption of power, unwarranted by any article or clause of its Constitution."

Yeah. Here he is in double speak mode.

If the circumstances of our country are such as to demand a compound instead of a simple, a confederate instead of a sole, government,..." So, there is a difference between a federal and a national government?

I do not think this is his meaning. He is illustrating, using two examples. "Compound instead of simple is basically the same thing as a "Confederate instead of a sole". I believe here is is basically saying that if a union of sovereign states (compound or confederate) is to be preferred over a (simple or sole) central government....

"The government of the Union must be empowered to pass all laws, and to make all regulations which have relation to them."

Here it gets murky. Does he mean that the central government passes ALL laws or is he allowing for state laws that do not conflict with laws made in the central government?

“The proposed Constitution, so far from implying an abolition of the State governments, makes them constituent parts of the national sovereignty, by allowing them a direct representation in the Senate, and leaves in their possession certain exclusive and very important portions of sovereign power."

OK. I think here, this is where the language can elude us. To better translate as best I can, I think this is the gist:

The proposed Constitution, without abolishing state governments, makes them part of a union where they have representation via the Senate and allows them to retain some of their sovereign power.

I get why this can be confusing. My brain hurts. I'll come back to this later. Great post OP.

 

[dcraelin]

Gore Vidal said that Hamilton, at least at one point after the revolution, was perhaps a british spy. Agent number 7 I believe....perhaps the original 007......Vidal also says he may have been the illegitimate son of Washington as Washington spent some time in the same islands that Hamilton was born in.

Hamilton was a walking contradiction. He was a patriot who served in the Revolutionary War at Washington'side but he admired the British system of government. He wrote most of the Federalist Papers but he changed parties and became a Democratic Republican. He characterized Aaron Burr as "undisciplined" but he resigned from politics because of an extra marital affair. It seems that honor was more important in the Hamilton family than shooting ability. His son was also killed in a duel.

I dont ever recall reading that Hamilton was ever a Democratic-Republican. You may be thinking of Madison on that point.

That is one of the best avis Ive seen!

dont know what u mean

 

[PoliticalChic]

Gore Vidal said that Hamilton, at least at one point after the revolution, was perhaps a british spy. Agent number 7 I believe....perhaps the original 007......Vidal also says he may have been the illegitimate son of Washington as Washington spent some time in the same islands that Hamilton was born in.




I dont ever recall reading that Hamilton was ever a Democratic-Republican. You may be thinking of Madison on that point.

That is one of the best avis Ive seen!

dont know what u mean

It has character, and an almost tactile feel to it.
I love not just the picture, but the muted colors.


Yours is one of the few that hold one's attention.

 

[Agit8r]

Are we speaking of the United States???


This United States?????

a couple of things to bear in mind are that:

A) the Federalist Papers were written by some Ivy League educated lawyers who later contradicted themselves in either rhetoric or practice.

B) the constitution has been amended since that time.

 

[dcraelin]

That is one of the best avis Ive seen!

dont know what u mean

It has character, and an almost tactile feel to it.
I love not just the picture, but the muted colors.
Yours is one of the few that hold one's attention.

oh, avitar........ its stone lithography I think

an old cartoon of William Jennings Bryan

 

[PoliticalChic]

Are we speaking of the United States???


This United States?????

a couple of things to bear in mind are that:

A) the Federalist Papers were written by some Ivy League educated lawyers who later contradicted themselves in either rhetoric or practice.

B) the constitution has been amended since that time.

Aside from the 17th, which amendments deny the states what they were promised?