Did We Need The USSR????

[rightwinger]

The USSR defeated the Nazis

We could not have done it without them

Now, see....I'm faced with one of those momentous decisions.....

Research says:


"Not only did FDR overlook the external evidence; FDR ignored the counsel of key experts at the State Department, which, at the time, was home...to an educated and experienced cadre of anti-Communists....who would be neutralized and purged....

n 1937...the Russian research library at the State Department was broken up, the files on Communists, foreign and domestic, ordered destroyed. The second, in 1943. Both purges took place under Soviet pressure and even direction as when in March 1943 Foreign Minister Litvinov, incredibly, handed over a list of American diplomats the Soviets wanted fired....a "guilt offering to Stalin from Roosevelt"...
West, "American Betrayal," p.193.



a. The reason for guilt? Some advisers had had the gall to suggest not only that the democracies could survive a Nazi conquest of the USSR...but that, in such an event, the United States should not recognize a soviet government in exile.
George Kennan echoed those feelings.
Weil, "A Pretty Good Club," p. 106.

Know who George Kennan was?




But sewer-boy says "The USSR defeated the Nazis

We could not have done it without them."


Guess you figure that fighting the Russians, win or lose, wouldn't have had much of an
effect on the Nazis....




Gee....who do I go with......????



Had we not given enormous Lent-Lease to Communist Russia...including the atomic bomb....how would history be different?
No Korean War, Mao loses to Chiang.....terrible, huh?



Did you actually cast the Tin Hat aspersion at SOMEONE ELSE?????

Do you know the word 'irony'?

Why do I bother to read your rambling disoriented posts? I should know better by now

Your post had nothing to do with what I posted

Nothing

 

[PoliticalChic]

The USSR defeated the Nazis

We could not have done it without them

Now, see....I'm faced with one of those momentous decisions.....

Research says:


"Not only did FDR overlook the external evidence; FDR ignored the counsel of key experts at the State Department, which, at the time, was home...to an educated and experienced cadre of anti-Communists....who would be neutralized and purged....

n 1937...the Russian research library at the State Department was broken up, the files on Communists, foreign and domestic, ordered destroyed. The second, in 1943. Both purges took place under Soviet pressure and even direction as when in March 1943 Foreign Minister Litvinov, incredibly, handed over a list of American diplomats the Soviets wanted fired....a "guilt offering to Stalin from Roosevelt"...
West, "American Betrayal," p.193.



a. The reason for guilt? Some advisers had had the gall to suggest not only that the democracies could survive a Nazi conquest of the USSR...but that, in such an event, the United States should not recognize a soviet government in exile.
George Kennan echoed those feelings.
Weil, "A Pretty Good Club," p. 106.

Know who George Kennan was?




But sewer-boy says "The USSR defeated the Nazis

We could not have done it without them."


Guess you figure that fighting the Russians, win or lose, wouldn't have had much of an
effect on the Nazis....




Gee....who do I go with......????



Had we not given enormous Lent-Lease to Communist Russia...including the atomic bomb....how would history be different?
No Korean War, Mao loses to Chiang.....terrible, huh?



Did you actually cast the Tin Hat aspersion at SOMEONE ELSE?????

Do you know the word 'irony'?

Why do I bother to read your rambling disoriented posts? I should know better by now

Your post had nothing to do with what I posted

Nothing

Yeah, it did.

The OP suggested we could have done just fine without the support of the USSR that Roosevelt insisted on.....and we could have avoided the resultant thousands of American casualties in Korea.

Point is, you can't imagine that you've been rolled by the Soviet disinformation strategy.



But.....if learning is painful for you...perhaps you should avoid my posts....

 

[rightwinger]

Now, see....I'm faced with one of those momentous decisions.....

Research says:


"Not only did FDR overlook the external evidence; FDR ignored the counsel of key experts at the State Department, which, at the time, was home...to an educated and experienced cadre of anti-Communists....who would be neutralized and purged....

n 1937...the Russian research library at the State Department was broken up, the files on Communists, foreign and domestic, ordered destroyed. The second, in 1943. Both purges took place under Soviet pressure and even direction as when in March 1943 Foreign Minister Litvinov, incredibly, handed over a list of American diplomats the Soviets wanted fired....a "guilt offering to Stalin from Roosevelt"...
West, "American Betrayal," p.193.



a. The reason for guilt? Some advisers had had the gall to suggest not only that the democracies could survive a Nazi conquest of the USSR...but that, in such an event, the United States should not recognize a soviet government in exile.
George Kennan echoed those feelings.
Weil, "A Pretty Good Club," p. 106.

Know who George Kennan was?




But sewer-boy says "The USSR defeated the Nazis

We could not have done it without them."


Guess you figure that fighting the Russians, win or lose, wouldn't have had much of an
effect on the Nazis....




Gee....who do I go with......????



Had we not given enormous Lent-Lease to Communist Russia...including the atomic bomb....how would history be different?
No Korean War, Mao loses to Chiang.....terrible, huh?



Did you actually cast the Tin Hat aspersion at SOMEONE ELSE?????

Do you know the word 'irony'?

Why do I bother to read your rambling disoriented posts? I should know better by now

Your post had nothing to do with what I posted

Nothing

Yeah, it did.

The OP suggested we could have done just fine without the support of the USSR that Roosevelt insisted on.....and we could have avoided the resultant thousands of American casualties in Korea.

Point is, you can't imagine that you've been rolled by the Soviet disinformation strategy.



But.....if learning is painful for you...perhaps you should avoid my posts....

Point of fact

The Soviets could have defeated the Nazis without us
We did not have the willpower to defeat the Nazis without the Soviets

It took millions of deaths to defeat the Nazis. The American public would not have stood for it in a foreign conflict

 

[PoliticalChic]

Why do I bother to read your rambling disoriented posts? I should know better by now

Your post had nothing to do with what I posted

Nothing

Yeah, it did.

The OP suggested we could have done just fine without the support of the USSR that Roosevelt insisted on.....and we could have avoided the resultant thousands of American casualties in Korea.

Point is, you can't imagine that you've been rolled by the Soviet disinformation strategy.



But.....if learning is painful for you...perhaps you should avoid my posts....

Point of fact

The Soviets could have defeated the Nazis without us
We did not have the willpower to defeat the Nazis without the Soviets

It took millions of deaths to defeat the Nazis. The American public would not have stood for it in a foreign conflict

Sorry that you cannot understand how stunningly stupid your post is.

1."Point of fact
The Soviets could have defeated the Nazis without us."


No, that is not a fact.
You seem not to understand the difference between fact and opinion.
This is a nice way of pointing out that you don't know what you are talking about.



2. "We did not have the willpower to defeat the Nazis without the Soviets."
The import....and I'd love to use 'stunningly stupid' again, but hate to be redundant....
...is that the people of the United States would have thrown in the towel had the Communists agreed to a treaty with the Nazis.



The reason I provide quotes and sources in my posts is so that I don't stand alone in the glaring sunlight making inane posts, as you do.

For example:
"A year and a half after WWII began in Europe, Roosevelt’s Lend-Lease supplied a prodigious amount of war materiel to Russia, without which the embattled Red Army, the only challenge to Hitler’s forces, would have been defeated."


This from Fleming, in "The Anti-Communist Manifestos." He was writing about Victor Kravchenko, the first defector.

 

[rightwinger]

Yeah, it did.

The OP suggested we could have done just fine without the support of the USSR that Roosevelt insisted on.....and we could have avoided the resultant thousands of American casualties in Korea.

Point is, you can't imagine that you've been rolled by the Soviet disinformation strategy.



But.....if learning is painful for you...perhaps you should avoid my posts....

Point of fact

The Soviets could have defeated the Nazis without us
We did not have the willpower to defeat the Nazis without the Soviets

It took millions of deaths to defeat the Nazis. The American public would not have stood for it in a foreign conflict

Sorry that you cannot understand how stunningly stupid your post is.

1."Point of fact
The Soviets could have defeated the Nazis without us."


No, that is not a fact.
You seem not to understand the difference between fact and opinion.
This is a nice way of pointing out that you don't know what you are talking about.



2. "We did not have the willpower to defeat the Nazis without the Soviets."
The import....and I'd love to use 'stunningly stupid' again, but hate to be redundant....
...is that the people of the United States would have thrown in the towel had the Communists agreed to a treaty with the Nazis.



The reason I provide quotes and sources in my posts is so that I don't stand alone in the glaring sunlight making inane posts, as you do.

For example:
"A year and a half after WWII began in Europe, Roosevelt’s Lend-Lease supplied a prodigious amount of war materiel to Russia, without which the embattled Red Army, the only challenge to Hitler’s forces, would have been defeated."


This from Fleming, in "The Anti-Communist Manifestos." He was writing about Victor Kravchenko, the first defector.

Stalingrad happened less than a year after we entered the war. The Nazis never recovered. We gave materiel, they gave blood

It is not the same

 

[gipper]

Point of fact

The Soviets could have defeated the Nazis without us
We did not have the willpower to defeat the Nazis without the Soviets

It took millions of deaths to defeat the Nazis. The American public would not have stood for it in a foreign conflict

Sorry that you cannot understand how stunningly stupid your post is.

1."Point of fact
The Soviets could have defeated the Nazis without us."


No, that is not a fact.
You seem not to understand the difference between fact and opinion.
This is a nice way of pointing out that you don't know what you are talking about.



2. "We did not have the willpower to defeat the Nazis without the Soviets."
The import....and I'd love to use 'stunningly stupid' again, but hate to be redundant....
...is that the people of the United States would have thrown in the towel had the Communists agreed to a treaty with the Nazis.



The reason I provide quotes and sources in my posts is so that I don't stand alone in the glaring sunlight making inane posts, as you do.

For example:
"A year and a half after WWII began in Europe, Roosevelt’s Lend-Lease supplied a prodigious amount of war materiel to Russia, without which the embattled Red Army, the only challenge to Hitler’s forces, would have been defeated."


This from Fleming, in "The Anti-Communist Manifestos." He was writing about Victor Kravchenko, the first defector.

Stalingrad happened less than a year after we entered the war. The Nazis never recovered. We gave materiel, they gave blood

It is not the same

That is foolish. The stupid Soviets gave blood because they cared not about their fighting men. They were expendable...just as Stalin thought all citizens of the USSR were expendable.

That is to say nothing of the thousands of casualties America suffered fighting the Nazis, which apparently you discount because the dumb ass Soviets lost so many more men because they sacrificed them in huge mass frontal attacks.

You think the US would not have been successful against the Soviets had we fought them in WWII. Really? Lets see now...USSR no navy....USA huge navy....USSR little air power....USA massive air power....yes they had a large army, but that won't do it by itself....and we could have used the a-bomb too.

You also forget that we were fighting a two front war, unlike the Soviets...and did so very successfully. You seem to have forgotten we were fighting the Japanese, who happened to have one of the largest, if not the largest, fighting force on the planet at the time....while also fighting the Germans.

So, your conclusions are incorrect.

 

[rightwinger]

The USSR defeated the Nazis

We could not have done it without them

Yeah we helped the USSR defeat the Nazis so we could give E. Europe to them and then make them a superpower leading to four decades of cold war.

Well done!

We had no choice

They had a million man Army defending their nation

 

[rightwinger]

Sorry that you cannot understand how stunningly stupid your post is.

1."Point of fact
The Soviets could have defeated the Nazis without us."


No, that is not a fact.
You seem not to understand the difference between fact and opinion.
This is a nice way of pointing out that you don't know what you are talking about.



2. "We did not have the willpower to defeat the Nazis without the Soviets."
The import....and I'd love to use 'stunningly stupid' again, but hate to be redundant....
...is that the people of the United States would have thrown in the towel had the Communists agreed to a treaty with the Nazis.



The reason I provide quotes and sources in my posts is so that I don't stand alone in the glaring sunlight making inane posts, as you do.

For example:
"A year and a half after WWII began in Europe, Roosevelt’s Lend-Lease supplied a prodigious amount of war materiel to Russia, without which the embattled Red Army, the only challenge to Hitler’s forces, would have been defeated."


This from Fleming, in "The Anti-Communist Manifestos." He was writing about Victor Kravchenko, the first defector.

Stalingrad happened less than a year after we entered the war. The Nazis never recovered. We gave materiel, they gave blood

It is not the same

That is foolish. The stupid Soviets gave blood because they cared not about their fighting men. They were expendable...just as Stalin thought all citizens of the USSR were expendable.

That is to say nothing of the thousands of casualties America suffered fighting the Nazis, which apparently you discount because the dumb ass Soviets lost so many more men because they sacrificed them in huge mass frontal attacks.

You think the US would not have been successful against the Soviets had we fought them in WWII. Really? Lets see now...USSR no navy....USA huge navy....USSR little air power....USA massive air power....yes they had a large army, but that won't do it by itself....and we could have used the a-bomb too.

You also forget that we were fighting a two front war, unlike the Soviets...and did so very successfully. You seem to have forgotten we were fighting the Japanese, who happened to have one of the largest, if not the largest, fighting force on the planet at the time....while also fighting the Germans.

So, your conclusions are incorrect.

We gave 200,000 they gave 20 million to defeating the Nazis

The US was not willing to lose the millions of soldiers it would have taken to defeat the Nazis or the Soviets. You are spouting right wing fantasies. It was a war on foreign soil. The US would never suffer that level of casualties to fight in Europe.

 

[regent]

Stalingrad happened less than a year after we entered the war. The Nazis never recovered. We gave materiel, they gave blood

It is not the same

That is foolish. The stupid Soviets gave blood because they cared not about their fighting men. They were expendable...just as Stalin thought all citizens of the USSR were expendable.

That is to say nothing of the thousands of casualties America suffered fighting the Nazis, which apparently you discount because the dumb ass Soviets lost so many more men because they sacrificed them in huge mass frontal attacks.

You think the US would not have been successful against the Soviets had we fought them in WWII. Really? Lets see now...USSR no navy....USA huge navy....USSR little air power....USA massive air power....yes they had a large army, but that won't do it by itself....and we could have used the a-bomb too.

You also forget that we were fighting a two front war, unlike the Soviets...and did so very successfully. You seem to have forgotten we were fighting the Japanese, who happened to have one of the largest, if not the largest, fighting force on the planet at the time....while also fighting the Germans.

So, your conclusions are incorrect.

We gave 200,000 they gave 20 million to defeating the Nazis

The US was not willing to lose the millions of soldiers it would have taken to defeat the Nazis or the Soviets. You are spouting right wing fantasies. It was a war on foreign soil. The US would never suffer that level of casualties to fight in Europe.

Can anyone imagine what it would have been like if the USSR had made a separate peace with Germany as Russia had done in WWI?
Or just as bad or worse, if the USSR had defeated Hitler with no America involved in the peace terms. The USSR would have had control of the entire European continent. Poor Britain.
Did the USSR ever thing with the allies talking of a DDay in 42, maybe 43 and finally 44 was a cheap con job?

 

[rightwinger]

That is foolish. The stupid Soviets gave blood because they cared not about their fighting men. They were expendable...just as Stalin thought all citizens of the USSR were expendable.

That is to say nothing of the thousands of casualties America suffered fighting the Nazis, which apparently you discount because the dumb ass Soviets lost so many more men because they sacrificed them in huge mass frontal attacks.

You think the US would not have been successful against the Soviets had we fought them in WWII. Really? Lets see now...USSR no navy....USA huge navy....USSR little air power....USA massive air power....yes they had a large army, but that won't do it by itself....and we could have used the a-bomb too.

You also forget that we were fighting a two front war, unlike the Soviets...and did so very successfully. You seem to have forgotten we were fighting the Japanese, who happened to have one of the largest, if not the largest, fighting force on the planet at the time....while also fighting the Germans.

So, your conclusions are incorrect.

We gave 200,000 they gave 20 million to defeating the Nazis

The US was not willing to lose the millions of soldiers it would have taken to defeat the Nazis or the Soviets. You are spouting right wing fantasies. It was a war on foreign soil. The US would never suffer that level of casualties to fight in Europe.

Can anyone imagine what it would have been like if the USSR had made a separate peace with Germany as Russia had done in WWI?
Or just as bad or worse, if the USSR had defeated Hitler with no America involved in the peace terms. The USSR would have had control of the entire European continent. Poor Britain.
Did the USSR ever thing with the allies talking of a DDay in 42, maybe 43 and finally 44 was a cheap con job?

We allowed the Soviets to throw millions into the meat grinder so that we could save thousands of lives in an invasion. Then assholes like PC complain that the Soviets got the best of us

 

[oldfart]

Why do I bother to read your rambling disoriented posts? I should know better by now

Your post had nothing to do with what I posted

Nothing

It has something to do with that impulse that makes us look at the gore in a bad accident. PC never responds to other posters; she just continues off in her alternative universe. Most of the time I don't read her posts now, not because I don't agree with them, but because they are so badly written they no longer have entertainment value. The novelty of the intellectual equivalent of decapitations and disembowelments has worn thin.

 

[PoliticalChic]

We gave 200,000 they gave 20 million to defeating the Nazis

The US was not willing to lose the millions of soldiers it would have taken to defeat the Nazis or the Soviets. You are spouting right wing fantasies. It was a war on foreign soil. The US would never suffer that level of casualties to fight in Europe.

Can anyone imagine what it would have been like if the USSR had made a separate peace with Germany as Russia had done in WWI?
Or just as bad or worse, if the USSR had defeated Hitler with no America involved in the peace terms. The USSR would have had control of the entire European continent. Poor Britain.
Did the USSR ever thing with the allies talking of a DDay in 42, maybe 43 and finally 44 was a cheap con job?

We allowed the Soviets to throw millions into the meat grinder so that we could save thousands of lives in an invasion. Then assholes like PC complain that the Soviets got the best of us

Truth be told, it never entered your mind that there was a very strong train of thought that we didn't need the communists to win the war, and that there was an existential danger in helping them.


Help me with this calculation:
Is your outlook due to the strength of the Soviet disinformation strategy, or the weakness of your mind?

I can see both playing a role.....

 

[PoliticalChic]

Why do I bother to read your rambling disoriented posts? I should know better by now

Your post had nothing to do with what I posted

Nothing

It has something to do with that impulse that makes us look at the gore in a bad accident. PC never responds to other posters; she just continues off in her alternative universe. Most of the time I don't read her posts now, not because I don't agree with them, but because they are so badly written they no longer have entertainment value. The novelty of the intellectual equivalent of decapitations and disembowelments has worn thin.

Be honest.
My level of skill, knowledge, and insight is like an avalanche, you, like a snowflake.

You know you swore not to engage my threads....but you can't stay away....
My posts are like a bug-light to you.


And, to compare your work with mine is compare a bamboo hut- simple, but not without some level of charm- to the palace at Versailles.


You'll be back.



Bring cookies.

 

[rightwinger]

Why do I bother to read your rambling disoriented posts? I should know better by now

Your post had nothing to do with what I posted

Nothing

It has something to do with that impulse that makes us look at the gore in a bad accident. PC never responds to other posters; she just continues off in her alternative universe. Most of the time I don't read her posts now, not because I don't agree with them, but because they are so badly written they no longer have entertainment value. The novelty of the intellectual equivalent of decapitations and disembowelments has worn thin.

I have discussed with her in the past about how she has squandered the money her parents spent on her education. Her academic laziness is evident in every post. She may have convinced some professors that her "research" has merit, but even a cursory glance at what she is asked and how she responds shows how she danced her way through school

 

[gipper]

Stalingrad happened less than a year after we entered the war. The Nazis never recovered. We gave materiel, they gave blood

It is not the same

That is foolish. The stupid Soviets gave blood because they cared not about their fighting men. They were expendable...just as Stalin thought all citizens of the USSR were expendable.

That is to say nothing of the thousands of casualties America suffered fighting the Nazis, which apparently you discount because the dumb ass Soviets lost so many more men because they sacrificed them in huge mass frontal attacks.

You think the US would not have been successful against the Soviets had we fought them in WWII. Really? Lets see now...USSR no navy....USA huge navy....USSR little air power....USA massive air power....yes they had a large army, but that won't do it by itself....and we could have used the a-bomb too.

You also forget that we were fighting a two front war, unlike the Soviets...and did so very successfully. You seem to have forgotten we were fighting the Japanese, who happened to have one of the largest, if not the largest, fighting force on the planet at the time....while also fighting the Germans.

So, your conclusions are incorrect.

We gave 200,000 they gave 20 million to defeating the Nazis

The US was not willing to lose the millions of soldiers it would have taken to defeat the Nazis or the Soviets. You are spouting right wing fantasies. It was a war on foreign soil. The US would never suffer that level of casualties to fight in Europe.

I do not disagree. The US would not have sacrificed it's men like the Soviets did.

The Soviet people did not accept 20MM deaths either, but with a government which told them nothing but lies, Stalin did as he wished. Do you think the Soviet people could have actually done something to stop the bloodshed?

You are confusing a dictatorship with a democracy. The US press, while suppressed during the war, told Americans of the death toll. The Soviets NEVER did..not that it would have mattered, since under Stalin they had no say in the matter.

This crap that the Soviet people were willing to accept higher casualty rates, while the US would not, is nothing but BS. The Soviet people had no say. To say nothing of the war being fought on their soil. The American people had some say and the war was not fought here.

 

[gipper]

Why do I bother to read your rambling disoriented posts? I should know better by now

Your post had nothing to do with what I posted

Nothing

It has something to do with that impulse that makes us look at the gore in a bad accident. PC never responds to other posters; she just continues off in her alternative universe. Most of the time I don't read her posts now, not because I don't agree with them, but because they are so badly written they no longer have entertainment value. The novelty of the intellectual equivalent of decapitations and disembowelments has worn thin.

PC has responded to me. Also I find her posts most enlightening and very interesting. You should be thanking her for all the research she puts into her posts rather than criticizing her.

I really enjoy her biting comments too.

 

[rightwinger]

That is foolish. The stupid Soviets gave blood because they cared not about their fighting men. They were expendable...just as Stalin thought all citizens of the USSR were expendable.

That is to say nothing of the thousands of casualties America suffered fighting the Nazis, which apparently you discount because the dumb ass Soviets lost so many more men because they sacrificed them in huge mass frontal attacks.

You think the US would not have been successful against the Soviets had we fought them in WWII. Really? Lets see now...USSR no navy....USA huge navy....USSR little air power....USA massive air power....yes they had a large army, but that won't do it by itself....and we could have used the a-bomb too.

You also forget that we were fighting a two front war, unlike the Soviets...and did so very successfully. You seem to have forgotten we were fighting the Japanese, who happened to have one of the largest, if not the largest, fighting force on the planet at the time....while also fighting the Germans.

So, your conclusions are incorrect.

We gave 200,000 they gave 20 million to defeating the Nazis

The US was not willing to lose the millions of soldiers it would have taken to defeat the Nazis or the Soviets. You are spouting right wing fantasies. It was a war on foreign soil. The US would never suffer that level of casualties to fight in Europe.

I do not disagree. The US would not have sacrificed it's men like the Soviets did.

The Soviet people did not accept 20MM deaths either, but with a government which told them nothing but lies, Stalin did as he wished. Do you think the Soviet people could have actually done something to stop the bloodshed?

You are confusing a dictatorship with a democracy. The US press, while suppressed during the war, told Americans of the death toll. The Soviets NEVER did..not that it would have mattered, since under Stalin they had no say in the matter.

This crap that the Soviet people were willing to accept higher casualty rates, while the US would not, is nothing but BS. The Soviet people had no say. To say nothing of the war being fought on their soil. The American people had some say and the war was not fought here.

It is true that the Soviets had no say one way or the other. But this was not WWII, this was The Great Patriotic War. It is the defining moment in Russian history. Their country was being invaded, their people were being slaughtered by the Nazis. They were willing to fight to the death to defend their motherland....just like Americans would do

But Americans would not have stood for a million or more casualties to fight a war in Europe. And yes, the American people have a say and they use it at the voting booth. If we were suffering those level of casualties and the US proper was not under invasion, the President and Congress would be voted out

 

[PoliticalChic]

Why do I bother to read your rambling disoriented posts? I should know better by now

Your post had nothing to do with what I posted

Nothing

It has something to do with that impulse that makes us look at the gore in a bad accident. PC never responds to other posters; she just continues off in her alternative universe. Most of the time I don't read her posts now, not because I don't agree with them, but because they are so badly written they no longer have entertainment value. The novelty of the intellectual equivalent of decapitations and disembowelments has worn thin.

I have discussed with her in the past about how she has squandered the money her parents spent on her education. Her academic laziness is evident in every post. She may have convinced some professors that her "research" has merit, but even a cursory glance at what she is asked and how she responds shows how she danced her way through school

Well...you're partly right:


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qchPLaiKocI]Kool & The Gang - Get Down On It - YouTube[/ame]

 

[editec]

Here's what the list of Soviet operations against Germany from Operation Barbarossa onward.

Please note that the USA's boots on the ground contribution to the victory in Europe didn't really start intil June 1944?

Anyone trying to make the case that Germany wasn't defeated in large part by the Soviet Army is either a bold faced liar or a damned fool.

1941-06-22 Operation Barbarossa launched – Axis invasion of the Soviet Union
1941-06-22 – ? Battle of the Baltic (1941)
1941-06-22 – 1941-07-09 Battle of Western Ukraine – destruction of Soviet tank armies
1941-06-22 – 1941-07-09 Battle of Bialystok-Minsk – Soviet 3rd and 10th armies encircled
1941-07-10 – 1941-09-10 Battle of Smolensk – Soviet 16th and 20th armies encircled
1941-07-10 – 1941-08-08 Battle of Uman – Soviet 6th and 12th armies encircled
1941-08-08 – 1941-09-19 Battle of Kiev – Soviet Southern Front encircled
1941-08-08 – 1944-01-18 Siege of Leningrad – the city of Leningrad and armies of the Leningrad Front encircled
Operation Silver Fox German and Finnish forces advance north of Leningrad on Murmansk.
Battle of Roslavl
1941-10-24 – 1942-01-07 Operation Typhoon – German advance on Moscow
1941-10-21 – 1941-10-27 Battle of Rostov – Germans initially occupied Rostov but were over-extended and driven back along shore of Sea of Azov by the Red Army.
Battle of Vyazma-Bryansk— see Battle of Moscow
1941-10-10 – Battle of Vyazma – occupied by Germans
1941-10-06 – Battle of Bryansk – occupied by Germans
1941-10-02 – 1942-01-07 Battle of Moscow – Operation Typhoon stalls. Soviet Winter counter-offensive.
Battle of the Crimea
First Battle of Kharkov— Germans occupy Kharkov
1941-11-16 – 1942-07-04 Siege of Sevastopol – Crimea is occupied by the Germans
1941.12.5 - 1942.4.30 Winter Campaign of 1941–1942
1942[edit source | editbeta]

January–April Rzhev-Vyazma Offensive (1942) – disastrous Soviet attempt to cut off the Rzhev salient
1942-2-8 Demyansk Pocket
1942-05-12 – 1942-05-30 Second Battle of Kharkov – Red Army take city but are cut off by 1st Panzer Army
July Battle of Voronezh (1942)
1942-06-28 Operation Blue launched from the Don to the Volga
July First Rzhev-Sychevka Offensive
1942-07-23 – 1943-02-01 Battle of the Caucasus – German troops climb Mount Elbrus but Axis cannot fight their way through to the Caspian Sea oilfields
1942-09-01 – 1943-02-02 Battle of Stalingrad – Bloodiest battle in history
1942-11-19 Operation Uranus launched – Romanian and Hungarian armies destroyed; 300,000 Axis troops trapped at Stalingrad
November–December Second Rzhev-Sychevka Offensive – another disastrous Soviet attempt to cut off Rzhev salient; Georgy Zhukov's worst defeat
1942-12-12 – 1942-12-29 Operation Winter Storm – fails to relieve Stalingrad
1942-12-16 – 1943-02-25 Operation Saturn – Soviet offensive destroys the Axis position in the Caucasus and Donbass
1943[edit source | editbeta]

March Rzhev-Vyazma Offensive (1943)
1943-02-16 – 1943-03-15 Third Battle of Kharkov – Erich von Manstein traps over-extended Red Army
1943-07-05 – 1943-08-01 Battle of Kursk – largest tank battle in history; Germans defeated by defense in depth
1943-07-30 Battle of the Mius
August Battle of Belgorod
August Fourth Battle of Kharkov
Battle of Smolensk (1943)
September–November Battle of the Dniepr
October Battle of Lenino
November Battle of Kiev
December–August 1944 Battle of the Ukraine
1944[edit source | editbeta]

January – Korsun Pocket
1944-01-18 – Siege of Leningrad raised
February–July – Battle of Narva – Soviet Leningrad-Novgorod Strategic Offensive brought to a halt by German forces including Estonian conscript formations
June–August – Operation Bagration – destruction of German Army Group Centre
July–August – Lvov-Sandomir Offensive – destruction of German Army Group South
July – Soviet Narva Operation – Soviet capture of Narva town
1944-07-26 – 1944-08-12 – Battle of Tannenberg Line – Soviet advance to Tallinn harbour brought to a halt by German forces
August – Operation Iassy-Kishinev (German "Operation Jassy-Kischinew") – defeat of German forces in Romania and switching of sides of Romania
1944-08-23 – Romania switches sides
August–September – Warsaw Uprising – failed due to lack of outside support
1944-08-29 – 1944-10-28 – Slovak National Uprising – Failed coup of Slovak-Soviet irregular forces in Slovakia
August–October – Battle of the Baltic (1944) – German Army Group North trapped in Courland
1944-10-06 – 1944-10-28 – Battle of Debrecen – German Army Group Fretter-Pico surrounded and destroyed Soviet Mobile Group Pliyev of the 2nd Ukrainian Front
1944-09-04 – Soviet Union agrees armistice with Finland
October – Battle of Belgrade
1944-12-29 – 1945-02-13 – Battle of Budapest
1945[edit source | editbeta]

1945-01-12 – 1945-02-02 – Vistula-Oder Offensive – Soviet advance from Poland to deep within the borders of Germany (seen from the location of the borders then)
1945-03-06 – 1945-03-17 – Lake Balaton Offensive – Last German offensive of the war
1945-04-02 – 1945-04-13 – Vienna Offensive
1945-04-16 – 1945-04-19 – Battle of the Seelow Heights – Zhukov's costly frontal assault on Berlin
1945-04-16 – 1945-05-02 – Battle of Berlin – One month of street-by-street fighting
1945-04-24 – 1945-05-01 – Battle of Halbe – Elements of German 9th Army escape to the west
1945-04-30 – Death of Adolf Hitler
1945-05-07 – Unconditional surrender of Germany in Rheims
1945-05-08 – Unconditional surrender of Germany in Berlin
1945-05-08 – End of World War II in Europe
1945-05-06 – 1945-05-11 – Prague Offensive

 

[PoliticalChic]

Here's what the list of Soviet operations against Germany from Operation Barbarossa onward.

Please note that the USA's boots on the ground contribution to the victory in Europe didn't really start intil June 1944?

Anyone trying to make the case that Germany wasn't defeated in large part by the Soviet Army is either a bold faced liar or a damned fool.

1941-06-22 Operation Barbarossa launched – Axis invasion of the Soviet Union
1941-06-22 – ? Battle of the Baltic (1941)
1941-06-22 – 1941-07-09 Battle of Western Ukraine – destruction of Soviet tank armies
1941-06-22 – 1941-07-09 Battle of Bialystok-Minsk – Soviet 3rd and 10th armies encircled
1941-07-10 – 1941-09-10 Battle of Smolensk – Soviet 16th and 20th armies encircled
1941-07-10 – 1941-08-08 Battle of Uman – Soviet 6th and 12th armies encircled
1941-08-08 – 1941-09-19 Battle of Kiev – Soviet Southern Front encircled
1941-08-08 – 1944-01-18 Siege of Leningrad – the city of Leningrad and armies of the Leningrad Front encircled
Operation Silver Fox German and Finnish forces advance north of Leningrad on Murmansk.
Battle of Roslavl
1941-10-24 – 1942-01-07 Operation Typhoon – German advance on Moscow
1941-10-21 – 1941-10-27 Battle of Rostov – Germans initially occupied Rostov but were over-extended and driven back along shore of Sea of Azov by the Red Army.
Battle of Vyazma-Bryansk— see Battle of Moscow
1941-10-10 – Battle of Vyazma – occupied by Germans
1941-10-06 – Battle of Bryansk – occupied by Germans
1941-10-02 – 1942-01-07 Battle of Moscow – Operation Typhoon stalls. Soviet Winter counter-offensive.
Battle of the Crimea
First Battle of Kharkov— Germans occupy Kharkov
1941-11-16 – 1942-07-04 Siege of Sevastopol – Crimea is occupied by the Germans
1941.12.5 - 1942.4.30 Winter Campaign of 1941–1942
1942[edit source | editbeta]

January–April Rzhev-Vyazma Offensive (1942) – disastrous Soviet attempt to cut off the Rzhev salient
1942-2-8 Demyansk Pocket
1942-05-12 – 1942-05-30 Second Battle of Kharkov – Red Army take city but are cut off by 1st Panzer Army
July Battle of Voronezh (1942)
1942-06-28 Operation Blue launched from the Don to the Volga
July First Rzhev-Sychevka Offensive
1942-07-23 – 1943-02-01 Battle of the Caucasus – German troops climb Mount Elbrus but Axis cannot fight their way through to the Caspian Sea oilfields
1942-09-01 – 1943-02-02 Battle of Stalingrad – Bloodiest battle in history
1942-11-19 Operation Uranus launched – Romanian and Hungarian armies destroyed; 300,000 Axis troops trapped at Stalingrad
November–December Second Rzhev-Sychevka Offensive – another disastrous Soviet attempt to cut off Rzhev salient; Georgy Zhukov's worst defeat
1942-12-12 – 1942-12-29 Operation Winter Storm – fails to relieve Stalingrad
1942-12-16 – 1943-02-25 Operation Saturn – Soviet offensive destroys the Axis position in the Caucasus and Donbass
1943[edit source | editbeta]

March Rzhev-Vyazma Offensive (1943)
1943-02-16 – 1943-03-15 Third Battle of Kharkov – Erich von Manstein traps over-extended Red Army
1943-07-05 – 1943-08-01 Battle of Kursk – largest tank battle in history; Germans defeated by defense in depth
1943-07-30 Battle of the Mius
August Battle of Belgorod
August Fourth Battle of Kharkov
Battle of Smolensk (1943)
September–November Battle of the Dniepr
October Battle of Lenino
November Battle of Kiev
December–August 1944 Battle of the Ukraine
1944[edit source | editbeta]

January – Korsun Pocket
1944-01-18 – Siege of Leningrad raised
February–July – Battle of Narva – Soviet Leningrad-Novgorod Strategic Offensive brought to a halt by German forces including Estonian conscript formations
June–August – Operation Bagration – destruction of German Army Group Centre
July–August – Lvov-Sandomir Offensive – destruction of German Army Group South
July – Soviet Narva Operation – Soviet capture of Narva town
1944-07-26 – 1944-08-12 – Battle of Tannenberg Line – Soviet advance to Tallinn harbour brought to a halt by German forces
August – Operation Iassy-Kishinev (German "Operation Jassy-Kischinew") – defeat of German forces in Romania and switching of sides of Romania
1944-08-23 – Romania switches sides
August–September – Warsaw Uprising – failed due to lack of outside support
1944-08-29 – 1944-10-28 – Slovak National Uprising – Failed coup of Slovak-Soviet irregular forces in Slovakia
August–October – Battle of the Baltic (1944) – German Army Group North trapped in Courland
1944-10-06 – 1944-10-28 – Battle of Debrecen – German Army Group Fretter-Pico surrounded and destroyed Soviet Mobile Group Pliyev of the 2nd Ukrainian Front
1944-09-04 – Soviet Union agrees armistice with Finland
October – Battle of Belgrade
1944-12-29 – 1945-02-13 – Battle of Budapest
1945[edit source | editbeta]

1945-01-12 – 1945-02-02 – Vistula-Oder Offensive – Soviet advance from Poland to deep within the borders of Germany (seen from the location of the borders then)
1945-03-06 – 1945-03-17 – Lake Balaton Offensive – Last German offensive of the war
1945-04-02 – 1945-04-13 – Vienna Offensive
1945-04-16 – 1945-04-19 – Battle of the Seelow Heights – Zhukov's costly frontal assault on Berlin
1945-04-16 – 1945-05-02 – Battle of Berlin – One month of street-by-street fighting
1945-04-24 – 1945-05-01 – Battle of Halbe – Elements of German 9th Army escape to the west
1945-04-30 – Death of Adolf Hitler
1945-05-07 – Unconditional surrender of Germany in Rheims
1945-05-08 – Unconditional surrender of Germany in Berlin
1945-05-08 – End of World War II in Europe
1945-05-06 – 1945-05-11 – Prague Offensive

Exhibit A:
"Anyone trying to make the case that Germany wasn't defeated in large part by the Soviet Army is either a bold faced liar or a damned fool."

Exhibit B:
"... advisers had had the gall to suggest not only that the democracies could survive a Nazi conquest of the USSR...but that, in such an event, the United States should not recognize a soviet government in exile.
George Kennan echoed those feelings.
Weil, "A Pretty Good Club," p. 106."




I contend that anyone who claims that Exhibit A and Exhibit B are the same may very well be "a damned fool."



Don't you agree?