Did we really have to nuke Japan?

[whitehall]

Last good thing Truman ever did.

Nope, it wasn't the last of give'm hell Harry. The idiot bean counter went on to disarm America's Military and was blindsided by Korea. He screwed that one up too.

 

[kflaux]

The only argument that the pro-nukers have left is that lots of Americans would have been killed in the invasion of Japan. Can any reasonable sane human really defend that argument? Evidence, that's right, freaking evidence indicates that the Japanese were so desperate to negotiate surrender terms that they turned to Stalin when the idiot that democrats had appointed to succeed FDR seemed clueless. The hangup for surrender negotiations was the promise not to execute the Japanese emperor but Truman was bound by his dead boss's mandate of unconditional surrender and refused to negotiate terms while Stalin was lying to the Japanese about liberal terms of surrender. It's ironic but the one thing the Japanese surrender terms hinged on was authorized after Truman signed off on the incineration of two Japanese cities full of civilians.

Agree with nearly all this, but the J had begun efforts to discuss peace before FDR's demise, IIRC, via another country other than the Soviets. Switzerland perhaps.

More importantly...those of you who think nuking Japan was a good idea need to explain to the rest of us why the US has never again used nuclear weapons.

After all, we have lost other wars since then. Vietnam most prominently.

Why was it A-O-K in August 1945, but not in the late 60's?

Or for that matter in N Korea, Iraq, Syria etc.



The wholesale slaughter of civilian populations was and is morally indefensible.

That's true whether we're talking about the Rape of Nanking, the Killing Fields of Cambodia, or Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

 

[namvet]

The only argument that the pro-nukers have left is that lots of Americans would have been killed in the invasion of Japan. Can any reasonable sane human really defend that argument? Evidence, that's right, freaking evidence indicates that the Japanese were so desperate to negotiate surrender terms that they turned to Stalin when the idiot that democrats had appointed to succeed FDR seemed clueless. The hangup for surrender negotiations was the promise not to execute the Japanese emperor but Truman was bound by his dead boss's mandate of unconditional surrender and refused to negotiate terms while Stalin was lying to the Japanese about liberal terms of surrender. It's ironic but the one thing the Japanese surrender terms hinged on was authorized after Truman signed off on the incineration of two Japanese cities full of civilians.

Agree with nearly all this, but the J had begun efforts to discuss peace before FDR's demise, IIRC, via another country other than the Soviets. Switzerland perhaps.

More importantly...those of you who think nuking Japan was a good idea need to explain to the rest of us why the US has never again used nuclear weapons.

After all, we have lost other wars since then. Vietnam most prominently.

Why was it A-O-K in August 1945, but not in the late 60's?

Or for that matter in N Korea, Iraq, Syria etc.



The wholesale slaughter of civilian populations was and is morally indefensible.

That's true whether we're talking about the Rape of Nanking, the Killing Fields of Cambodia, or Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

"More importantly...those of you who think nuking Japan was a good idea need to explain to the rest of us why the US has never again used nuclear weapons."

this should be obvious even to you. we now have the hydrogen bomb which is a world killer

 

[elektra]

Japan, poor Japanese people killed by the most powerful weapon created at that time. The Japanese were brutal barbarians, bayoneting pregnant Chinese woman for fun in Nanking, as well as the deviant torture of teenage boys in Burma. Nasty Barbarians, even sent pictures home to Mom and Dad to published in the local papers. Proud the Japanese were in the torture and barbaric murders they committed as "Samurai" soldiers.

Those who talk of the Japanese surrender should read history, at best the government of Japan was divided, with the military very much in control. That the Emperor surrendered is a great story of the war, a must read. It was not so simple to surrender, those who tried faced the real threat of being killed, the government was more than the Emperor, it also consisted of the Military Command, who were not going to surrender, and literally fought against the Emperor surrendering.

maybe this was said already, lots of posts here.

anyhow, on a high note I will just add;

Lieutenant Hiroo Onoda, the last Japanese Officer to Surrender, in 1974.

 

[gipper]

Japan, poor Japanese people killed by the most powerful weapon created at that time. The Japanese were brutal barbarians, bayoneting pregnant Chinese woman for fun in Nanking, as well as the deviant torture of teenage boys in Burma. Nasty Barbarians, even sent pictures home to Mom and Dad to published in the local papers. Proud the Japanese were in the torture and barbaric murders they committed as "Samurai" soldiers.

Those who talk of the Japanese surrender should read history, at best the government of Japan was divided, with the military very much in control. That the Emperor surrendered is a great story of the war, a must read. It was not so simple to surrender, those who tried faced the real threat of being killed, the government was more than the Emperor, it also consisted of the Military Command, who were not going to surrender, and literally fought against the Emperor surrendering.

maybe this was said already, lots of posts here.

anyhow, on a high note I will just add;

Lieutenant Hiroo Onoda, the last Japanese Officer to Surrender, in 1974.

So since the Japanese military committed brutal acts, the US was justified in incinerating thousands of their women and children...who had no say and no involvement in the heinous acts of their military.

Not logical and terribly barbaric.

 

[JoeB131]

Japan was threatening behind closed doors to surrender to the USSR. That way the emperor had a chance to save face with his people. Stalin was also very interested in those trade routes, and Stalin already made it clear he was no friend to the US or England.

The cold war began almost immediately following WWII and the dividing of the land. USSR pretty much flat out held out a big giant finger to both the US and England. Yes, it was predictable and Patton was trying to get a war with them.

The fact is behind closed doors the USSR and Japan had worked SOMETHING out. There was no way this country was just going to allow the USSR to take Japan after America pretty much alone defeated them with so many American lives lost.

Okay, what retarded ass Home Skule did you learn this from?

The thing was the USSR and Japan already had a non-aggression pact, that the USSR broke at the insistence of the allies after Germany surrendered.

The reason why Japan surrendered was not due to the Atom bomb, but because when the USSR entered the war, they knew they couldn't hold Manchuria and Korea against a battle hardened Red Army (in fact, the USSR Rolled up the Kwantung Army in less than a week) and if the USSR decided to invade Hokkaido (That's the northernmost Island in Japan, for all you Home-Schoolers) all the Japanese had to defend it were two divisions deployed on the EASTERN half of the Island.

They had heard stories about how the Red Army was raping the shit out of Germany, and they realized they'd be better off under American occupation.

 

[gipper]

Japan was threatening behind closed doors to surrender to the USSR. That way the emperor had a chance to save face with his people. Stalin was also very interested in those trade routes, and Stalin already made it clear he was no friend to the US or England.

The cold war began almost immediately following WWII and the dividing of the land. USSR pretty much flat out held out a big giant finger to both the US and England. Yes, it was predictable and Patton was trying to get a war with them.

The fact is behind closed doors the USSR and Japan had worked SOMETHING out. There was no way this country was just going to allow the USSR to take Japan after America pretty much alone defeated them with so many American lives lost.

Okay, what retarded ass Home Skule did you learn this from?

The thing was the USSR and Japan already had a non-aggression pact, that the USSR broke at the insistence of the allies after Germany surrendered.

The reason why Japan surrendered was not due to the Atom bomb, but because when the USSR entered the war, they knew they couldn't hold Manchuria and Korea against a battle hardened Red Army (in fact, the USSR Rolled up the Kwantung Army in less than a week) and if the USSR decided to invade Hokkaido (That's the northernmost Island in Japan, for all you Home-Schoolers) all the Japanese had to defend it were two divisions deployed on the EASTERN half of the Island.

They had heard stories about how the Red Army was raping the shit out of Germany, and they realized they'd be better off under American occupation.

Damn Joe...I never expected you capable of a post that is mostly factual. Congrats.

 

[JoeB131]

Last good thing Truman ever did.

Nope, it wasn't the last of give'm hell Harry. The idiot bean counter went on to disarm America's Military and was blindsided by Korea. He screwed that one up too.

Actually, the REpublicans were just as much for the Draw-down after WWII as the Truman was. The GOP really wanted to return to a pre-war policy of isolationism.

You see, FDR had nationalized much of the economy during WWII, which meant the government was controlling prices and wages and production and priorities that were normally left to the "Markets". The GOP wanted to put an end to that, they wanted an end to conscription, they wanted to go back to "Normalcy".

Truman had to fight to keep as much of the military as we had, he had to fight for the Marshall plan.

 

[Theowl32]

Japan, poor Japanese people killed by the most powerful weapon created at that time. The Japanese were brutal barbarians, bayoneting pregnant Chinese woman for fun in Nanking, as well as the deviant torture of teenage boys in Burma. Nasty Barbarians, even sent pictures home to Mom and Dad to published in the local papers. Proud the Japanese were in the torture and barbaric murders they committed as "Samurai" soldiers.

Those who talk of the Japanese surrender should read history, at best the government of Japan was divided, with the military very much in control. That the Emperor surrendered is a great story of the war, a must read. It was not so simple to surrender, those who tried faced the real threat of being killed, the government was more than the Emperor, it also consisted of the Military Command, who were not going to surrender, and literally fought against the Emperor surrendering.

maybe this was said already, lots of posts here.

anyhow, on a high note I will just add;

Lieutenant Hiroo Onoda, the last Japanese Officer to Surrender, in 1974.

So since the Japanese military committed brutal acts, the US was justified in incinerating thousands of their women and children...who had no say and no involvement in the heinous acts of their military.

Not logical and terribly barbaric.

So, you would have rather had a long drawn out war with the USSR?

Again, this had nothing to do with defeating Japan but getting the USSR to back off of their intentions. Which was taking Japan, who was all too willing where they could save face through propaganda.

The USSR and the USA were officially in a cold war since the Yalta conference which was in February of 1945. You get that or not? That was BEFORE the official end of WWii. BEFORE THE END of WWII.

Stalin, from all evidence, was an absolute megalomaniac and he was bullying is way into the far east with the absolute desire to control those valuable trade routes (mainly for oil).

So, the bombs were for preventing a long drawn out campaign with the USSR. There were no choices.

Wait, here were the choices. You are president. Which one do you opt for?

1. Allow Japan to just surrender to Stalin and allow Stalin to dominate the entire region for who knows how long. After, young Americans had just died. How would you justify that to the American people?

2. Declare war on the USSR and carry on a long drawn out war with Stalin. It may have worked considering the USA had such a logistical advantage considering ALL of the factories were in working order, and our hardware was in the region already. Of course, we would have went it alone, considering England would not have agreed to join us and the American people would have been crushed knowing that we just ended WWII. Thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of Americans would have died.

3. Drop the bomb, and get the USSR to back off of the notion of getting Japan to surrender to them. When they did not call the bluff after Hiroshima, they certainly got it after Nagasaki. As a result, Japan surrenders to the US and we prevent a long war with the USSR.

Those are your choices. What do you do?

The timeline.

February 8th.... The official cold war begins with the USSR at the Conference of Yalta.

August 6th the bomb is dropped on Hiroshima.

August 8th..USSR declares war on Japan and invades Manchuria.

August 9th Second bomb is dropped and the Japanese agree with surrender UNCONDITIONALLY on the Missouri.

What, do you do?

 

[JoeB131]

Hey, Owl, Josef Stalin is hiding under your bed right now!

The reality is the bombs were probably not that big of a deal.

Let's look at the sequence of events.

Japan knows it's defeated, they start putting out feelers about a surrender. The sticking point is that the US won't commit to retaining Hirohito as tenyo (Emperor)

Then we drop the bombs, but we had been bombing Japan for months at that point, and conventional bombs were killing far more people.

When the USSR entered the war, it changed a bunch of things.

1) Stalin wasn't going to mediate between Japan and the Allies.
2) The Red Army was quickly rolling up the Japanese Army on the mainland.
3) If the war dragged on, Japan would be partitioned like Germany and Austria were.

That's why Japan surrendered. The game changer was not another weapon, but the fact that the balance of power across the theatre had drastically turned against them.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

No.

The war was won and winding down by August when the bombs were deployed. But from a financial perspective, something to show for it was required as with actually using them. Plus the Allies wanted to demonstrate to the Soviets "We have this big bomb..."

 

[namvet]

Japan, poor Japanese people killed by the most powerful weapon created at that time. The Japanese were brutal barbarians, bayoneting pregnant Chinese woman for fun in Nanking, as well as the deviant torture of teenage boys in Burma. Nasty Barbarians, even sent pictures home to Mom and Dad to published in the local papers. Proud the Japanese were in the torture and barbaric murders they committed as "Samurai" soldiers.

Those who talk of the Japanese surrender should read history, at best the government of Japan was divided, with the military very much in control. That the Emperor surrendered is a great story of the war, a must read. It was not so simple to surrender, those who tried faced the real threat of being killed, the government was more than the Emperor, it also consisted of the Military Command, who were not going to surrender, and literally fought against the Emperor surrendering.

maybe this was said already, lots of posts here.

anyhow, on a high note I will just add;

Lieutenant Hiroo Onoda, the last Japanese Officer to Surrender, in 1974.

So since the Japanese military committed brutal acts, the US was justified in incinerating thousands of their women and children...who had no say and no involvement in the heinous acts of their military.

Not logical and terribly barbaric.

you fuckin' moron. those were military targets. and POW's were put to death. your a fuckin pacifists idiot

 

[gipper]

Japan, poor Japanese people killed by the most powerful weapon created at that time. The Japanese were brutal barbarians, bayoneting pregnant Chinese woman for fun in Nanking, as well as the deviant torture of teenage boys in Burma. Nasty Barbarians, even sent pictures home to Mom and Dad to published in the local papers. Proud the Japanese were in the torture and barbaric murders they committed as "Samurai" soldiers.

Those who talk of the Japanese surrender should read history, at best the government of Japan was divided, with the military very much in control. That the Emperor surrendered is a great story of the war, a must read. It was not so simple to surrender, those who tried faced the real threat of being killed, the government was more than the Emperor, it also consisted of the Military Command, who were not going to surrender, and literally fought against the Emperor surrendering.

maybe this was said already, lots of posts here.

anyhow, on a high note I will just add;

Lieutenant Hiroo Onoda, the last Japanese Officer to Surrender, in 1974.

So since the Japanese military committed brutal acts, the US was justified in incinerating thousands of their women and children...who had no say and no involvement in the heinous acts of their military.

Not logical and terribly barbaric.

So, you would have rather had a long drawn out war with the USSR?

Again, this had nothing to do with defeating Japan but getting the USSR to back off of their intentions. Which was taking Japan, who was all too willing where they could save face through propaganda.

The USSR and the USA were officially in a cold war since the Yalta conference which was in February of 1945. You get that or not? That was BEFORE the official end of WWii. BEFORE THE END of WWII.

Stalin, from all evidence, was an absolute megalomaniac and he was bullying is way into the far east with the absolute desire to control those valuable trade routes (mainly for oil).

So, the bombs were for preventing a long drawn out campaign with the USSR. There were no choices.

Wait, here were the choices. You are president. Which one do you opt for?

1. Allow Japan to just surrender to Stalin and allow Stalin to dominate the entire region for who knows how long. After, young Americans had just died. How would you justify that to the American people?

2. Declare war on the USSR and carry on a long drawn out war with Stalin. It may have worked considering the USA had such a logistical advantage considering ALL of the factories were in working order, and our hardware was in the region already. Of course, we would have went it alone, considering England would not have agreed to join us and the American people would have been crushed knowing that we just ended WWII. Thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of Americans would have died.

3. Drop the bomb, and get the USSR to back off of the notion of getting Japan to surrender to them. When they did not call the bluff after Hiroshima, they certainly got it after Nagasaki. As a result, Japan surrenders to the US and we prevent a long war with the USSR.

Those are your choices. What do you do?

The timeline.

February 8th.... The official cold war begins with the USSR at the Conference of Yalta.

August 6th the bomb is dropped on Hiroshima.

August 8th..USSR declares war on Japan and invades Manchuria.

August 9th Second bomb is dropped and the Japanese agree with surrender UNCONDITIONALLY on the Missouri.

What, do you do?

I do not think those choices are accurate.

First, we never should have been at war with Japan, or Germany for that matter, had FDR not been such a deceitful lying bastard. In the 1940 election he promised Americans we would stay out of the war...all the while working feverishly to get us into war with Germany and Japan. Had he not placed economic sanctions on Japan along with freezing their assets in the USA, and refusing to even meet with Japanese officials to work out differences, Pearl Harbor would never have happened.

Regarding Japan's surrender, they had been trying to surrender as early as 1944. But due to the FDR's crazy unconditional surrender requirement, they feared the US would hang the Emperor in front of the palace. Most ironic that the doofus from Independence refused Japan's only condition, but after incinerating women and children with the bombs, he then agreed to it. Does this mean anything to you?

I do believe Dirty Harry did want to impress Stalin, by using the bombs...most immoral for a man who claimed to be a devout Christian wouldn't you agree?

Murdering civilians particularly on the scale the US did to Germany and Japan, is entirely indefensible.

 

[Theowl32]

Japan, poor Japanese people killed by the most powerful weapon created at that time. The Japanese were brutal barbarians, bayoneting pregnant Chinese woman for fun in Nanking, as well as the deviant torture of teenage boys in Burma. Nasty Barbarians, even sent pictures home to Mom and Dad to published in the local papers. Proud the Japanese were in the torture and barbaric murders they committed as "Samurai" soldiers.

Those who talk of the Japanese surrender should read history, at best the government of Japan was divided, with the military very much in control. That the Emperor surrendered is a great story of the war, a must read. It was not so simple to surrender, those who tried faced the real threat of being killed, the government was more than the Emperor, it also consisted of the Military Command, who were not going to surrender, and literally fought against the Emperor surrendering.

maybe this was said already, lots of posts here.

anyhow, on a high note I will just add;

Lieutenant Hiroo Onoda, the last Japanese Officer to Surrender, in 1974.

So since the Japanese military committed brutal acts, the US was justified in incinerating thousands of their women and children...who had no say and no involvement in the heinous acts of their military.

Not logical and terribly barbaric.

So, you would have rather had a long drawn out war with the USSR?

Again, this had nothing to do with defeating Japan but getting the USSR to back off of their intentions. Which was taking Japan, who was all too willing where they could save face through propaganda.

The USSR and the USA were officially in a cold war since the Yalta conference which was in February of 1945. You get that or not? That was BEFORE the official end of WWii. BEFORE THE END of WWII.

Stalin, from all evidence, was an absolute megalomaniac and he was bullying is way into the far east with the absolute desire to control those valuable trade routes (mainly for oil).

So, the bombs were for preventing a long drawn out campaign with the USSR. There were no choices.

Wait, here were the choices. You are president. Which one do you opt for?

1. Allow Japan to just surrender to Stalin and allow Stalin to dominate the entire region for who knows how long. After, young Americans had just died. How would you justify that to the American people?

2. Declare war on the USSR and carry on a long drawn out war with Stalin. It may have worked considering the USA had such a logistical advantage considering ALL of the factories were in working order, and our hardware was in the region already. Of course, we would have went it alone, considering England would not have agreed to join us and the American people would have been crushed knowing that we just ended WWII. Thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of Americans would have died.

3. Drop the bomb, and get the USSR to back off of the notion of getting Japan to surrender to them. When they did not call the bluff after Hiroshima, they certainly got it after Nagasaki. As a result, Japan surrenders to the US and we prevent a long war with the USSR.

Those are your choices. What do you do?

The timeline.

February 8th.... The official cold war begins with the USSR at the Conference of Yalta.

August 6th the bomb is dropped on Hiroshima.

August 8th..USSR declares war on Japan and invades Manchuria.

August 9th Second bomb is dropped and the Japanese agree with surrender UNCONDITIONALLY on the Missouri.

What, do you do?

I do not think those choices are accurate.

First, we never should have been at war with Japan, or Germany for that matter, had FDR not been such a deceitful lying bastard. In the 1940 election he promised Americans we would stay out of the war...all the while working feverishly to get us into war with Germany and Japan. Had he not placed economic sanctions on Japan along with freezing their assets in the USA, and refusing to even meet with Japanese officials to work out differences, Pearl Harbor would never have happened.

Regarding Japan's surrender, they had been trying to surrender as early as 1944. But due to the FDR's crazy unconditional surrender requirement, they feared the US would hang the Emperor in front of the palace. Most ironic that the doofus from Independence refused Japan's only condition, but after incinerating women and children with the bombs, he then agreed to it. Does this mean anything to you?

I do believe Dirty Harry did want to impress Stalin, by using the bombs...most immoral for a man who claimed to be a devout Christian wouldn't you agree?

Murdering civilians particularly on the scale the US did to Germany and Japan, is entirely indefensible.

Wow. So America was just guilty of starting WWII with Japan and they were both victims of American imperialism.

Holy shit.

 

[gipper]

Japan, poor Japanese people killed by the most powerful weapon created at that time. The Japanese were brutal barbarians, bayoneting pregnant Chinese woman for fun in Nanking, as well as the deviant torture of teenage boys in Burma. Nasty Barbarians, even sent pictures home to Mom and Dad to published in the local papers. Proud the Japanese were in the torture and barbaric murders they committed as "Samurai" soldiers.

Those who talk of the Japanese surrender should read history, at best the government of Japan was divided, with the military very much in control. That the Emperor surrendered is a great story of the war, a must read. It was not so simple to surrender, those who tried faced the real threat of being killed, the government was more than the Emperor, it also consisted of the Military Command, who were not going to surrender, and literally fought against the Emperor surrendering.

maybe this was said already, lots of posts here.

anyhow, on a high note I will just add;

Lieutenant Hiroo Onoda, the last Japanese Officer to Surrender, in 1974.

So since the Japanese military committed brutal acts, the US was justified in incinerating thousands of their women and children...who had no say and no involvement in the heinous acts of their military.

Not logical and terribly barbaric.

So, you would have rather had a long drawn out war with the USSR?

Again, this had nothing to do with defeating Japan but getting the USSR to back off of their intentions. Which was taking Japan, who was all too willing where they could save face through propaganda.

The USSR and the USA were officially in a cold war since the Yalta conference which was in February of 1945. You get that or not? That was BEFORE the official end of WWii. BEFORE THE END of WWII.

Stalin, from all evidence, was an absolute megalomaniac and he was bullying is way into the far east with the absolute desire to control those valuable trade routes (mainly for oil).

So, the bombs were for preventing a long drawn out campaign with the USSR. There were no choices.

Wait, here were the choices. You are president. Which one do you opt for?

1. Allow Japan to just surrender to Stalin and allow Stalin to dominate the entire region for who knows how long. After, young Americans had just died. How would you justify that to the American people?

2. Declare war on the USSR and carry on a long drawn out war with Stalin. It may have worked considering the USA had such a logistical advantage considering ALL of the factories were in working order, and our hardware was in the region already. Of course, we would have went it alone, considering England would not have agreed to join us and the American people would have been crushed knowing that we just ended WWII. Thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of Americans would have died.

3. Drop the bomb, and get the USSR to back off of the notion of getting Japan to surrender to them. When they did not call the bluff after Hiroshima, they certainly got it after Nagasaki. As a result, Japan surrenders to the US and we prevent a long war with the USSR.

Those are your choices. What do you do?

The timeline.

February 8th.... The official cold war begins with the USSR at the Conference of Yalta.

August 6th the bomb is dropped on Hiroshima.

August 8th..USSR declares war on Japan and invades Manchuria.

August 9th Second bomb is dropped and the Japanese agree with surrender UNCONDITIONALLY on the Missouri.

What, do you do?

I do not think those choices are accurate.

First, we never should have been at war with Japan, or Germany for that matter, had FDR not been such a deceitful lying bastard. In the 1940 election he promised Americans we would stay out of the war...all the while working feverishly to get us into war with Germany and Japan. Had he not placed economic sanctions on Japan along with freezing their assets in the USA, and refusing to even meet with Japanese officials to work out differences, Pearl Harbor would never have happened.

Regarding Japan's surrender, they had been trying to surrender as early as 1944. But due to the FDR's crazy unconditional surrender requirement, they feared the US would hang the Emperor in front of the palace. Most ironic that the doofus from Independence refused Japan's only condition, but after incinerating women and children with the bombs, he then agreed to it. Does this mean anything to you?

I do believe Dirty Harry did want to impress Stalin, by using the bombs...most immoral for a man who claimed to be a devout Christian wouldn't you agree?

Murdering civilians particularly on the scale the US did to Germany and Japan, is entirely indefensible.

Wow. So America was just guilty of starting WWII with Japan and they were both victims of American imperialism.

Holy shit.

Why have you chosen to pose a strawman argument?

America was not guilty. FDR was.

 

[Theowl32]

Japan, poor Japanese people killed by the most powerful weapon created at that time. The Japanese were brutal barbarians, bayoneting pregnant Chinese woman for fun in Nanking, as well as the deviant torture of teenage boys in Burma. Nasty Barbarians, even sent pictures home to Mom and Dad to published in the local papers. Proud the Japanese were in the torture and barbaric murders they committed as "Samurai" soldiers.

Those who talk of the Japanese surrender should read history, at best the government of Japan was divided, with the military very much in control. That the Emperor surrendered is a great story of the war, a must read. It was not so simple to surrender, those who tried faced the real threat of being killed, the government was more than the Emperor, it also consisted of the Military Command, who were not going to surrender, and literally fought against the Emperor surrendering.

maybe this was said already, lots of posts here.

anyhow, on a high note I will just add;

Lieutenant Hiroo Onoda, the last Japanese Officer to Surrender, in 1974.

So since the Japanese military committed brutal acts, the US was justified in incinerating thousands of their women and children...who had no say and no involvement in the heinous acts of their military.

Not logical and terribly barbaric.

So, you would have rather had a long drawn out war with the USSR?

Again, this had nothing to do with defeating Japan but getting the USSR to back off of their intentions. Which was taking Japan, who was all too willing where they could save face through propaganda.

The USSR and the USA were officially in a cold war since the Yalta conference which was in February of 1945. You get that or not? That was BEFORE the official end of WWii. BEFORE THE END of WWII.

Stalin, from all evidence, was an absolute megalomaniac and he was bullying is way into the far east with the absolute desire to control those valuable trade routes (mainly for oil).

So, the bombs were for preventing a long drawn out campaign with the USSR. There were no choices.

Wait, here were the choices. You are president. Which one do you opt for?

1. Allow Japan to just surrender to Stalin and allow Stalin to dominate the entire region for who knows how long. After, young Americans had just died. How would you justify that to the American people?

2. Declare war on the USSR and carry on a long drawn out war with Stalin. It may have worked considering the USA had such a logistical advantage considering ALL of the factories were in working order, and our hardware was in the region already. Of course, we would have went it alone, considering England would not have agreed to join us and the American people would have been crushed knowing that we just ended WWII. Thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of Americans would have died.

3. Drop the bomb, and get the USSR to back off of the notion of getting Japan to surrender to them. When they did not call the bluff after Hiroshima, they certainly got it after Nagasaki. As a result, Japan surrenders to the US and we prevent a long war with the USSR.

Those are your choices. What do you do?

The timeline.

February 8th.... The official cold war begins with the USSR at the Conference of Yalta.

August 6th the bomb is dropped on Hiroshima.

August 8th..USSR declares war on Japan and invades Manchuria.

August 9th Second bomb is dropped and the Japanese agree with surrender UNCONDITIONALLY on the Missouri.

What, do you do?

I do not think those choices are accurate.

First, we never should have been at war with Japan, or Germany for that matter, had FDR not been such a deceitful lying bastard. In the 1940 election he promised Americans we would stay out of the war...all the while working feverishly to get us into war with Germany and Japan. Had he not placed economic sanctions on Japan along with freezing their assets in the USA, and refusing to even meet with Japanese officials to work out differences, Pearl Harbor would never have happened.

Regarding Japan's surrender, they had been trying to surrender as early as 1944. But due to the FDR's crazy unconditional surrender requirement, they feared the US would hang the Emperor in front of the palace. Most ironic that the doofus from Independence refused Japan's only condition, but after incinerating women and children with the bombs, he then agreed to it. Does this mean anything to you?

I do believe Dirty Harry did want to impress Stalin, by using the bombs...most immoral for a man who claimed to be a devout Christian wouldn't you agree?

Murdering civilians particularly on the scale the US did to Germany and Japan, is entirely indefensible.

Wow. So America was just guilty of starting WWII with Japan and they were both victims of American imperialism.

Holy shit.

Why have you chosen to pose a strawman argument?

America was not guilty. FDR was.

Holy shit

 

[gipper]

So since the Japanese military committed brutal acts, the US was justified in incinerating thousands of their women and children...who had no say and no involvement in the heinous acts of their military.

Not logical and terribly barbaric.

So, you would have rather had a long drawn out war with the USSR?

Again, this had nothing to do with defeating Japan but getting the USSR to back off of their intentions. Which was taking Japan, who was all too willing where they could save face through propaganda.

The USSR and the USA were officially in a cold war since the Yalta conference which was in February of 1945. You get that or not? That was BEFORE the official end of WWii. BEFORE THE END of WWII.

Stalin, from all evidence, was an absolute megalomaniac and he was bullying is way into the far east with the absolute desire to control those valuable trade routes (mainly for oil).

So, the bombs were for preventing a long drawn out campaign with the USSR. There were no choices.

Wait, here were the choices. You are president. Which one do you opt for?

1. Allow Japan to just surrender to Stalin and allow Stalin to dominate the entire region for who knows how long. After, young Americans had just died. How would you justify that to the American people?

2. Declare war on the USSR and carry on a long drawn out war with Stalin. It may have worked considering the USA had such a logistical advantage considering ALL of the factories were in working order, and our hardware was in the region already. Of course, we would have went it alone, considering England would not have agreed to join us and the American people would have been crushed knowing that we just ended WWII. Thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of Americans would have died.

3. Drop the bomb, and get the USSR to back off of the notion of getting Japan to surrender to them. When they did not call the bluff after Hiroshima, they certainly got it after Nagasaki. As a result, Japan surrenders to the US and we prevent a long war with the USSR.

Those are your choices. What do you do?

The timeline.

February 8th.... The official cold war begins with the USSR at the Conference of Yalta.

August 6th the bomb is dropped on Hiroshima.

August 8th..USSR declares war on Japan and invades Manchuria.

August 9th Second bomb is dropped and the Japanese agree with surrender UNCONDITIONALLY on the Missouri.

What, do you do?

I do not think those choices are accurate.

First, we never should have been at war with Japan, or Germany for that matter, had FDR not been such a deceitful lying bastard. In the 1940 election he promised Americans we would stay out of the war...all the while working feverishly to get us into war with Germany and Japan. Had he not placed economic sanctions on Japan along with freezing their assets in the USA, and refusing to even meet with Japanese officials to work out differences, Pearl Harbor would never have happened.

Regarding Japan's surrender, they had been trying to surrender as early as 1944. But due to the FDR's crazy unconditional surrender requirement, they feared the US would hang the Emperor in front of the palace. Most ironic that the doofus from Independence refused Japan's only condition, but after incinerating women and children with the bombs, he then agreed to it. Does this mean anything to you?

I do believe Dirty Harry did want to impress Stalin, by using the bombs...most immoral for a man who claimed to be a devout Christian wouldn't you agree?

Murdering civilians particularly on the scale the US did to Germany and Japan, is entirely indefensible.

Wow. So America was just guilty of starting WWII with Japan and they were both victims of American imperialism.

Holy shit.

Why have you chosen to pose a strawman argument?

America was not guilty. FDR was.

Holy shit

How can you not know that FDR was a lying scumbag who instigated the war?

 

[namvet]

So, you would have rather had a long drawn out war with the USSR?

Again, this had nothing to do with defeating Japan but getting the USSR to back off of their intentions. Which was taking Japan, who was all too willing where they could save face through propaganda.

The USSR and the USA were officially in a cold war since the Yalta conference which was in February of 1945. You get that or not? That was BEFORE the official end of WWii. BEFORE THE END of WWII.

Stalin, from all evidence, was an absolute megalomaniac and he was bullying is way into the far east with the absolute desire to control those valuable trade routes (mainly for oil).

So, the bombs were for preventing a long drawn out campaign with the USSR. There were no choices.

Wait, here were the choices. You are president. Which one do you opt for?

1. Allow Japan to just surrender to Stalin and allow Stalin to dominate the entire region for who knows how long. After, young Americans had just died. How would you justify that to the American people?

2. Declare war on the USSR and carry on a long drawn out war with Stalin. It may have worked considering the USA had such a logistical advantage considering ALL of the factories were in working order, and our hardware was in the region already. Of course, we would have went it alone, considering England would not have agreed to join us and the American people would have been crushed knowing that we just ended WWII. Thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of Americans would have died.

3. Drop the bomb, and get the USSR to back off of the notion of getting Japan to surrender to them. When they did not call the bluff after Hiroshima, they certainly got it after Nagasaki. As a result, Japan surrenders to the US and we prevent a long war with the USSR.

Those are your choices. What do you do?

The timeline.

February 8th.... The official cold war begins with the USSR at the Conference of Yalta.

August 6th the bomb is dropped on Hiroshima.

August 8th..USSR declares war on Japan and invades Manchuria.

August 9th Second bomb is dropped and the Japanese agree with surrender UNCONDITIONALLY on the Missouri.

What, do you do?

I do not think those choices are accurate.

First, we never should have been at war with Japan, or Germany for that matter, had FDR not been such a deceitful lying bastard. In the 1940 election he promised Americans we would stay out of the war...all the while working feverishly to get us into war with Germany and Japan. Had he not placed economic sanctions on Japan along with freezing their assets in the USA, and refusing to even meet with Japanese officials to work out differences, Pearl Harbor would never have happened.

Regarding Japan's surrender, they had been trying to surrender as early as 1944. But due to the FDR's crazy unconditional surrender requirement, they feared the US would hang the Emperor in front of the palace. Most ironic that the doofus from Independence refused Japan's only condition, but after incinerating women and children with the bombs, he then agreed to it. Does this mean anything to you?

I do believe Dirty Harry did want to impress Stalin, by using the bombs...most immoral for a man who claimed to be a devout Christian wouldn't you agree?

Murdering civilians particularly on the scale the US did to Germany and Japan, is entirely indefensible.

Wow. So America was just guilty of starting WWII with Japan and they were both victims of American imperialism.

Holy shit.

Why have you chosen to pose a strawman argument?

America was not guilty. FDR was.

Holy shit

How can you not know that FDR was a lying scumbag who instigated the war?

how do you know he wasn't??? proof?? no didn't think so. louse

 

[elektra]

Japan, poor Japanese people killed by the most powerful weapon created at that time. The Japanese were brutal barbarians, bayoneting pregnant Chinese woman for fun in Nanking, as well as the deviant torture of teenage boys in Burma. Nasty Barbarians, even sent pictures home to Mom and Dad to published in the local papers. Proud the Japanese were in the torture and barbaric murders they committed as "Samurai" soldiers.

Those who talk of the Japanese surrender should read history, at best the government of Japan was divided, with the military very much in control. That the Emperor surrendered is a great story of the war, a must read. It was not so simple to surrender, those who tried faced the real threat of being killed, the government was more than the Emperor, it also consisted of the Military Command, who were not going to surrender, and literally fought against the Emperor surrendering.

maybe this was said already, lots of posts here.

anyhow, on a high note I will just add;

Lieutenant Hiroo Onoda, the last Japanese Officer to Surrender, in 1974.

So since the Japanese military committed brutal acts, the US was justified in incinerating thousands of their women and children...who had no say and no involvement in the heinous acts of their military.

Not logical and terribly barbaric.

Your simpleton narrative of World War II is not descriptive of the events that the Japanese created.

 

[gipper]

To All The Above:

Please educate yourselves and stop believing the lies of the State.

Have you failed to learn war is the health of the state?

You want links....here they are. I dare you to read them.
Pearl Harbor Hawaii Was Surprised FDR Was Not
http://archive.lewrockwell.com/orig/stinnett1.html
Did FDR Provoke Pearl Harbor 8211 LewRockwell.com
Did FDR Plan the Attack on Pearl Harbor
The Establishment Cover-Up Continues 8211 LewRockwell.com
The Arthur McCollum Memorandum
How To Start a War The American Use of War Pretext Incidents 8211 LewRockwell.com
Man of Blood 8211 LewRockwell.com
http://archive.lewrockwell.com/raico/raico40.1.html
http://archive.lewrockwell.com/raico/raico20.html
How FDR Dragged Out WW II for Stalin. thisisyourgovernment
More Articles on Pearl Harbor

Read these books PLEASE:
Day Of Deceit The Truth About FDR and Pearl Harbor Robert Stinnett 9780743201292 Amazon.com Books
http://www.amazon.com/Roosevelt-Myt...=1421184648602&peasin=930073274&tag=ff0d01-20
Stalin s Secret Agents The Subversion of Roosevelt s Government M. Stanton Evans Herbert Romerstein 9781439147702 Amazon.com Books