Dismal earnings reports indicate the start of the Trump downturn

[Faun]

If he gets 2 terms the DOW would have to reach 61,000 to match "Hussein`s" accomplishments.

I don't know if you should call the weakest recovery since WWII an "accomplishment".

Ummmmm, wouldn't the worst economic disaster since WWII have the worst recovery?

Just asking, Mr Expert.

Only if you had the worst President doing the worst job.

Maybe we'd have done better if he added another 100,000 pages of regulations?
Maybe 200,000 pages?

Come on now. The worse the recession, the longer the recovery.

Pile on the housing collapse & near financial meltdown.

To do nothing to prevent another wall street fueled economic meltdown would have been really stupid.

Regulations are basically written to plug loopholes.

The worse the recession, the longer the recovery.

Especially when new regulations are being piled on.
Capital requirements are raised and raised again.
When banks are being fined hundreds of billions of dollars.

To do nothing to prevent another wall street fueled economic meltdown would have been really stupid.

I agree, all the requirements to make subprime loans or buy subprime mortgages should have been eliminated.
Regulations are basically written to plug loopholes.

And when the "loopholes" are previous regulations?​

Except the feds were Obama's best friend. They kept interest rates at nearly zero for his entire 8 years. The first thing they did to Trump was raise them. And Trump is STILL setting records despite this.

There was a rumor yesterday that the feds might lower interest rates if the economy takes a hit due to Trumps tariff war and the stock market jumped over 500 points in one day. Imagine what the economy would do if the feds would treat Trump like they treated Obama.

That's because the economy was strong and growing when trump became president.

 

[georgephillip]

Which derive their value from the underlying assets.

How Mortgage-Backed Securities Worked Until They Didn't

"Mortgage-backed securities are investments that are secured by mortgages.

"They’re a type of asset-backed security.

"A security is an investment that is traded on a secondary market.

"It allows investors to benefit from the mortgage business without ever having to buy or sell an actual home loan. Typical buyers of these securities include institutional, corporate or individual investors.

"When you invest in an MBS, you are buying the rights to receive the value of a bundle of mortgages. That includes the monthly payments and the repayment of the principal.

"Since it is a security, you can buy just a part of the mortgage. You receive an equivalent portion of the payments.

"An MBS is a derivative because it derives its value from the underlying asset."

"They’re a type of asset-backed security.

Right. Not a derivative.

"An MBS is a derivative because it derives its value from the underlying asset."

Wrong.

A derivative derives its value from something without actually being that thing.

5000 bushels of corn is not a derivative, it's an asset.
A futures contract on 5000 bushels of corn isn't actually 5000 bushels of corn, it
is a derivative that derives its value from the value of 5000 bushels of corn.

100 shares of IBM is not a derivative, it's an asset.
A call option on 100 shares of IBM isn't actually 100 shares of IBM, it is a derivative
that derives its value from the value of 100 shares of IBM.

A pile of mortgages, or a pile of MBS carved out of a pile of mortgages, is a bond.
Not a derivative.
A credit default swap that derives its value from the value of a pile of mortgages isn't a bond.
It isn't a pile of mortgages or a pile of MBS, it is a derivative.

An MBS is a derivative because it derives its value from the underlying asset."

Wrong.

A derivative derives its value from something without actually being that thing.

Exactly.
A MBS derives its value from a category of assets called mortgages; hence a MBS is a derivative.

Mortgage-backed security - Wikipedia

A MBS derives its value from a category of assets called mortgages

No, it's actually those assets shuffled around.

A piece of a bond is a bond.

Interest from an MBS is interest paid by the home buyer on his mortgage.

An options contract or a futures contract on a bond is a derivative.
A synthetic MBS created to mimic a portfolio of mortgages is a derivative.
The portfolio itself, no matter how it is divided, is still a bond.

The value of a derivative depends upon another underlying asset which in the case of a MBS is a pool of either CRE loans or residential loans.

The value of a derivative depends upon another underlying asset

I underlined your confusion.

The value of a derivative depends upon another underlying asset

I underlined your confusion.

"Mortgage backed securities (MBS) are also known as mortgage derivatives and mortgage-backed bonds. They are a form of investment that is based upon the mortgages of home buyers. As such, they affect the mortgage interest rate and can also have a significant effect on the economy if they go wrong (more on that later.)..."

"Mortgage Derivatives
Mortgage-backed bonds belong to a class of securities known as derivatives whose value lies in an underlying asset.

"In this case, that asset is the mortgage bundle.

"The risk of such mortgage derivatives is spread over the whole bundle of loans – in this case 100,000 (this a simple figure used for example only.)"

Mortgage Backed Securities and Mortgage Derivatives | Alliance West Financial

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

CRA played a part. The question is....how large a part?

How???????

Standard mortgages did not cause this.

How???????

Banks with loans to low and moderate income people who would not otherwise qualify for a loan
will have larger losses than banks which do not have loans to low and moderate income people who would not otherwise qualify for a loan

Standard mortgages did not cause this.

No kidding. Many low and moderate income people didn't qualify for conforming loans.

Nopw you don't know what a standard mortgage is?

We are talking about a straight X amount per month, long term mortgage.

Not these interest free for 5 years with balloon payment type loans.

Are you really this ignorant?

Nopw you don't know what a standard mortgage is?

20% down, credit score of 620 or higher. DURR

What are the payments? A fixed amount per ,month long term.

Funny how you left that out.

What are the payments? A fixed amount per ,month long term.

Larger, with a lower down payment.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

CRA played a part. The question is....how large a part?

How???????

Standard mortgages did not cause this.

How???????

Banks with loans to low and moderate income people who would not otherwise qualify for a loan
will have larger losses than banks which do not have loans to low and moderate income people who would not otherwise qualify for a loan

Standard mortgages did not cause this.

No kidding. Many low and moderate income people didn't qualify for conforming loans.

Your fallacy is that you assume that these loans would fail. You totally ignore that these people still had to show they could afford these lower cost mortgages.

A couple goes to the bank for a mortgage & they quite thern a $1000 a month payment after a 20% down payment. The bank reviews their finances & decline because they can't afford a $1000/mo payment nor have enough for a down payment.

Since they are in the bank's "neighborhood, the bank can lower the interest rates to get the monthly payments at $800 & a 10% down payment. The bank's review determines they can afford it & the couple buys a home.

No, where is the bank risk? Why is it more? They passed the bank's review?

All the CRA does is help people who just couldn't afford the standard rates but could with a rate reduction.

This is not a difficult concept, especially for an economic expert like you.

Your fallacy is that you assume that these loans would fail.

Loans to people with lower credit scores, lower incomes and lower down payments fail
at a higher rate than conforming loans.

Since they are in the bank's "neighborhood, the bank can lower the interest rates to get the monthly payments at $800 & a 10% down payment.

The bank is supposed to give a riskier borrower a lower interest rate?
What could go wrong?

It may be lower profit but how is it riskier as far as failure?

Lower income, lower credit score, lower down payment and also a lower interest rate
and you don't see how it is riskier?

 

[SassyIrishLass]

The "downturn" continues....DOW up 124.

 

[Mac1958]

The market is pleased to see the Fed say it will decrease interest rates if data continues to suggest a slowdown.

That's a good thing. It's the opposite of what we were promised, the 5% to 6% GDP, but at least the Fed is ready to react to further weakness.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

"They’re a type of asset-backed security.

Right. Not a derivative.

"An MBS is a derivative because it derives its value from the underlying asset."

Wrong.

A derivative derives its value from something without actually being that thing.

5000 bushels of corn is not a derivative, it's an asset.
A futures contract on 5000 bushels of corn isn't actually 5000 bushels of corn, it
is a derivative that derives its value from the value of 5000 bushels of corn.

100 shares of IBM is not a derivative, it's an asset.
A call option on 100 shares of IBM isn't actually 100 shares of IBM, it is a derivative
that derives its value from the value of 100 shares of IBM.

A pile of mortgages, or a pile of MBS carved out of a pile of mortgages, is a bond.
Not a derivative.
A credit default swap that derives its value from the value of a pile of mortgages isn't a bond.
It isn't a pile of mortgages or a pile of MBS, it is a derivative.

An MBS is a derivative because it derives its value from the underlying asset."

Wrong.

A derivative derives its value from something without actually being that thing.

Exactly.
A MBS derives its value from a category of assets called mortgages; hence a MBS is a derivative.

Mortgage-backed security - Wikipedia

A MBS derives its value from a category of assets called mortgages

No, it's actually those assets shuffled around.

A piece of a bond is a bond.

Interest from an MBS is interest paid by the home buyer on his mortgage.

An options contract or a futures contract on a bond is a derivative.
A synthetic MBS created to mimic a portfolio of mortgages is a derivative.
The portfolio itself, no matter how it is divided, is still a bond.

The value of a derivative depends upon another underlying asset which in the case of a MBS is a pool of either CRE loans or residential loans.

The value of a derivative depends upon another underlying asset

I underlined your confusion.

The value of a derivative depends upon another underlying asset

I underlined your confusion.

"Mortgage backed securities (MBS) are also known as mortgage derivatives and mortgage-backed bonds. They are a form of investment that is based upon the mortgages of home buyers. As such, they affect the mortgage interest rate and can also have a significant effect on the economy if they go wrong (more on that later.)..."

"Mortgage Derivatives
Mortgage-backed bonds belong to a class of securities known as derivatives whose value lies in an underlying asset.

"In this case, that asset is the mortgage bundle.

"The risk of such mortgage derivatives is spread over the whole bundle of loans – in this case 100,000 (this a simple figure used for example only.)"

Mortgage Backed Securities and Mortgage Derivatives | Alliance West Financial

Mortgage-backed bonds belong to a class of securities known as derivatives whose value lies in an underlying asset.

A corn futures contract doesn't have an underlying asset.
Neither does an IBM options contract.
I don't need to buy corn or IBM shares to sell those derivatives.

If Fannie or Freddie sells a billion dollars of MBS, they bought
a billion dollars of mortgages first.

 

[22lcidw]

Ummmmm, wouldn't the worst economic disaster since WWII have the worst recovery?

Just asking, Mr Expert.

Only if you had the worst President doing the worst job.

Maybe we'd have done better if he added another 100,000 pages of regulations?
Maybe 200,000 pages?

Come on now. The worse the recession, the longer the recovery.

Pile on the housing collapse & near financial meltdown.

To do nothing to prevent another wall street fueled economic meltdown would have been really stupid.

Regulations are basically written to plug loopholes.

The worse the recession, the longer the recovery.

Especially when new regulations are being piled on.
Capital requirements are raised and raised again.
When banks are being fined hundreds of billions of dollars.

To do nothing to prevent another wall street fueled economic meltdown would have been really stupid.

I agree, all the requirements to make subprime loans or buy subprime mortgages should have been eliminated.
Regulations are basically written to plug loopholes.

And when the "loopholes" are previous regulations?​

Except the feds were Obama's best friend. They kept interest rates at nearly zero for his entire 8 years. The first thing they did to Trump was raise them. And Trump is STILL setting records despite this.

There was a rumor yesterday that the feds might lower interest rates if the economy takes a hit due to Trumps tariff war and the stock market jumped over 500 points in one day. Imagine what the economy would do if the feds would treat Trump like they treated Obama.

That's because the economy was strong and growing when trump became president.

Lets get wha tyou want. A stock market collapse. Come on! Let it happen. Then we will see what we all really are. We will see the American version of "through the looking glass". Since this is wha tyou want i expect all love and unicorns and rainbow lovw from all of the progressives. Even if the checks and medical treatment/pills are greatly reduced and the loans collapse also. You promoted yourselves this way. Now live it if the time comes.

 

[jc456]

You gotta love it...

Stocks just had their second best day of the year — Dow rallies more than 500 points

"Stocks just had their second best day of the year — Dow rallies more than 500 points"

 

[jc456]

The market is pleased to see the Fed say it will decrease interest rates if data continues to suggest a slowdown.

That's a good thing. It's the opposite of what we were promised, the 5% to 6% GDP, but at least the Fed is ready to react to further weakness.

I thought the fed didn't affect the stock market?

 

[SassyIrishLass]

The market is pleased to see the Fed say it will decrease interest rates if data continues to suggest a slowdown.

That's a good thing. It's the opposite of what we were promised, the 5% to 6% GDP, but at least the Fed is ready to react to further weakness.

I thought the fed didn't affect the stock market?

Only a fool would buy that

 

[Mac1958]

The market is pleased to see the Fed say it will decrease interest rates if data continues to suggest a slowdown.

That's a good thing. It's the opposite of what we were promised, the 5% to 6% GDP, but at least the Fed is ready to react to further weakness.

I thought the fed didn't affect the stock market?

The actions of the Fed can affect the market, of course.
.

 

[jc456]

The market is pleased to see the Fed say it will decrease interest rates if data continues to suggest a slowdown.

That's a good thing. It's the opposite of what we were promised, the 5% to 6% GDP, but at least the Fed is ready to react to further weakness.

I thought the fed didn't affect the stock market?

Only a fool would buy that

funny, I got eaten up in here for daring to call out the fed for its last interest rate hike for affecting the stock market drop at that time. funny shit. I love in here the fking hypocrisy that is active.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The market is pleased to see the Fed say it will decrease interest rates if data continues to suggest a slowdown.

That's a good thing. It's the opposite of what we were promised, the 5% to 6% GDP, but at least the Fed is ready to react to further weakness.

I thought the fed didn't affect the stock market?

I thought the fed didn't affect the stock market?

Don't fight the Fed.

 

[Mac1958]

The market is pleased to see the Fed say it will decrease interest rates if data continues to suggest a slowdown.

That's a good thing. It's the opposite of what we were promised, the 5% to 6% GDP, but at least the Fed is ready to react to further weakness.

I thought the fed didn't affect the stock market?

Only a fool would buy that

funny, I got eaten up in here for daring to call out the fed for its last interest rate hike for affecting the stock market drop at that time. funny shit. I love in here the fking hypocrisy that is active.

Well, that was wrong.
.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

The market is pleased to see the Fed say it will decrease interest rates if data continues to suggest a slowdown.

That's a good thing. It's the opposite of what we were promised, the 5% to 6% GDP, but at least the Fed is ready to react to further weakness.

I thought the fed didn't affect the stock market?

Only a fool would buy that

funny, I got eaten up in here for daring to call out the fed for its last interest rate hike for affecting the stock market drop at that time. funny shit. I love in here the fking hypocrisy that is active.

I said from the get go the Fed increase would hurt the markets. It did

 

[jc456]

The market is pleased to see the Fed say it will decrease interest rates if data continues to suggest a slowdown.

That's a good thing. It's the opposite of what we were promised, the 5% to 6% GDP, but at least the Fed is ready to react to further weakness.

I thought the fed didn't affect the stock market?

Only a fool would buy that

funny, I got eaten up in here for daring to call out the fed for its last interest rate hike for affecting the stock market drop at that time. funny shit. I love in here the fking hypocrisy that is active.

I said from the get go the Fed increase would hurt the markets. It did

me too. shit that day I was busy educating the left. Again.

 

[August West]

If he gets 2 terms the DOW would have to reach 61,000 to match "Hussein`s" accomplishments.

I don't know if you should call the weakest recovery since WWII an "accomplishment".

Ummmmm, wouldn't the worst economic disaster since WWII have the worst recovery?

Just asking, Mr Expert.

Only if you had the worst President doing the worst job.

Maybe we'd have done better if he added another 100,000 pages of regulations?
Maybe 200,000 pages?

Come on now. The worse the recession, the longer the recovery.

Pile on the housing collapse & near financial meltdown.

To do nothing to prevent another wall street fueled economic meltdown would have been really stupid.

Regulations are basically written to plug loopholes.

The worse the recession, the longer the recovery.

Especially when new regulations are being piled on.
Capital requirements are raised and raised again.
When banks are being fined hundreds of billions of dollars.

To do nothing to prevent another wall street fueled economic meltdown would have been really stupid.

I agree, all the requirements to make subprime loans or buy subprime mortgages should have been eliminated.
Regulations are basically written to plug loopholes.

And when the "loopholes" are previous regulations?​

Except the feds were Obama's best friend. They kept interest rates at nearly zero for his entire 8 years. The first thing they did to Trump was raise them. And Trump is STILL setting records despite this.

There was a rumor yesterday that the feds might lower interest rates if the economy takes a hit due to Trumps tariff war and the stock market jumped over 500 points in one day. Imagine what the economy would do if the feds would treat Trump like they treated Obama.

Has there ever been a conservative that didn`t whine about something being done to them or one of their heroes? The Feds conspired against orange Jesus. Good one!

 

[jc456]

Ummmmm, wouldn't the worst economic disaster since WWII have the worst recovery?

Just asking, Mr Expert.

Only if you had the worst President doing the worst job.

Maybe we'd have done better if he added another 100,000 pages of regulations?
Maybe 200,000 pages?

Come on now. The worse the recession, the longer the recovery.

Pile on the housing collapse & near financial meltdown.

To do nothing to prevent another wall street fueled economic meltdown would have been really stupid.

Regulations are basically written to plug loopholes.

The worse the recession, the longer the recovery.

Especially when new regulations are being piled on.
Capital requirements are raised and raised again.
When banks are being fined hundreds of billions of dollars.

To do nothing to prevent another wall street fueled economic meltdown would have been really stupid.

I agree, all the requirements to make subprime loans or buy subprime mortgages should have been eliminated.
Regulations are basically written to plug loopholes.

And when the "loopholes" are previous regulations?​

Except the feds were Obama's best friend. They kept interest rates at nearly zero for his entire 8 years. The first thing they did to Trump was raise them. And Trump is STILL setting records despite this.

There was a rumor yesterday that the feds might lower interest rates if the economy takes a hit due to Trumps tariff war and the stock market jumped over 500 points in one day. Imagine what the economy would do if the feds would treat Trump like they treated Obama.

Has there ever been a conservative that didn`t whine about something being done to them or one of their heroes? The Feds conspired against orange Jesus. Good one!

russia russia wasn't whining? oh, I got it, irony!!!!!

 

[RealDave]

Only if you had the worst President doing the worst job.

Maybe we'd have done better if he added another 100,000 pages of regulations?
Maybe 200,000 pages?

Come on now. The worse the recession, the longer the recovery.

Pile on the housing collapse & near financial meltdown.

To do nothing to prevent another wall street fueled economic meltdown would have been really stupid.

Regulations are basically written to plug loopholes.

The worse the recession, the longer the recovery.

Especially when new regulations are being piled on.
Capital requirements are raised and raised again.
When banks are being fined hundreds of billions of dollars.

To do nothing to prevent another wall street fueled economic meltdown would have been really stupid.

I agree, all the requirements to make subprime loans or buy subprime mortgages should have been eliminated.
Regulations are basically written to plug loopholes.

And when the "loopholes" are previous regulations?​

Except the feds were Obama's best friend. They kept interest rates at nearly zero for his entire 8 years. The first thing they did to Trump was raise them. And Trump is STILL setting records despite this.

There was a rumor yesterday that the feds might lower interest rates if the economy takes a hit due to Trumps tariff war and the stock market jumped over 500 points in one day. Imagine what the economy would do if the feds would treat Trump like they treated Obama.

Has there ever been a conservative that didn`t whine about something being done to them or one of their heroes? The Feds conspired against orange Jesus. Good one!

russia russia wasn't whining? oh, I got it, irony!!!!!

Russia was interfering in our election, & you don't care. I get it.