Do Conservatives know what health insurance is?

[BlueGin]

Wrong. That is the law known as Obamacare. Prior to Obamacare that practice did not take place.

All Obamacare does is mandate insurance and set up a marketplace where insurers can offer their plans for consumers to compare.

And most of the poor who come to the ER uninsured is due to the fact that they were too lazy to sign up for Medicaid...not because they can't.

 

[The Derp]

Unless you're some kind of sickly person, the lifetime cap on this would not kick in until after I was eligible for medicare.

BUT YOU DON'T KNOW THAT! That's the point. Yeesh.

Something I paid into My entire life.

Medicare is pay-go, meaning you're not paying for your Medicare, you're paying for the people currently on Medicare. So Medicare is healthy people (those under 65) paying for sick people (those over 65). It's insurance. Same principle applies to any insurance. This is what I'm talking about when I say you people don't know anything about this.

Again, you seem to have some kind of dense spot here. Do you turn the cost of your auto's oil change into your insurance company?

Car insurance is not health insurance. The two couldn't be more different. Firstly, cars are not something that every person needs, yet health care is. So you're comparing apples and oranges. When it comes to your health, you cannot predict what your needs are going to be. So that's why we have insurance.

The problem with higher deductibles higher premiums with government programs is that I have no market to shop around in.

The cognitive dissonance is strong with you. I don't think you even realize you're doing it. You say people should "pay their own way", but that's precisely what deductibles and co-insurance is. So you say people should pay their own way (aka "put skin in the game"), then say you oppose it in the very next paragraph you wrote! The deductibles aren't the government program...the deductibles are from the insurer, and the deductibles are what forces people to "pay their own way" as you said they should, but then said they shouldn't in the very next paragraph. I just want to point out that cognitive dissonance as it's the thread I can pull at to unravel your entire argument. You guys don't seem to know what you want at all. Maybe that's why after 7 years of screaming about Obamacare, Conservatives have yet to produce a replacement plan.

Prior, I could tailor an insurance plan based upon My consideration of what I needed and could find. With a large market, I have plenty of choices

So, do you understand why group plans for employers are so much cheaper than individual plans? Because group plans take all employees into account, pool all their premiums together, and broaden the risk pool which lowers the cost. What you're arguing for is the exact opposite of that...so you get fewer choices, not more, and you get them at a higher cost because you're fragmenting the risk pool.

his is called freedom.

The freedom to choose who reimburses your provider. You don't actually have freedom of choice for health care. Your "freedom" ends where the [profit margins for your insurer begin, which is right away. You cannot pick any doctor you want. You first have to pick an insurer and then you get to pick your doctor. So your freedomk is limited by the profit margins of the insurance company. Profit margins that are directly related to how much they reimburse your prvider. Shouldn't ot be the other way around? That you pick your doctor and the doctor gets reimbursed by some entity that does the actual, administrative reimbursement? Why does it matter to you who reimburses your doctor? It's not even a transaction you're a part of, as it happens after you get your treatment.

 

[rightwinger]

What Conservatives know about Health Insurance

1. They don't consider it to be a basic human right
2. They don't want poor people to have it
3. They want healthcare to go to the highest bidder
4. They support obscene profits
5. They hate anything with Obama's name on it

Many hospital and health plan employees also donate their PTO to the grants for patients that can't pay their hospital bills. FYI

Very Liberal of them

 

[BlueGin]

What Conservatives know about Health Insurance

1. They don't consider it to be a basic human right
2. They don't want poor people to have it
3. They want healthcare to go to the highest bidder
4. They support obscene profits
5. They hate anything with Obama's name on it

Many hospital and health plan employees also donate their PTO to the grants for patients that can't pay their hospital bills. FYI

Very Liberal of them

Hardly. Liberals would donate their co workers PTO..not their own.

 

[rightwinger]

What Conservatives know about Health Insurance

1. They don't consider it to be a basic human right
2. They don't want poor people to have it
3. They want healthcare to go to the highest bidder
4. They support obscene profits
5. They hate anything with Obama's name on it

Many hospital and health plan employees also donate their PTO to the grants for patients that can't pay their hospital bills. FYI

Very Liberal of them

Hardly. Liberals would donate their co workers PTO..not their own.

You wouldn't have PTO without liberals fighting for worker rights

 

[BlueGin]

What Conservatives know about Health Insurance

1. They don't consider it to be a basic human right
2. They don't want poor people to have it
3. They want healthcare to go to the highest bidder
4. They support obscene profits
5. They hate anything with Obama's name on it

Many hospital and health plan employees also donate their PTO to the grants for patients that can't pay their hospital bills. FYI

Very Liberal of them

Hardly. Liberals would donate their co workers PTO..not their own.

You wouldn't have PTO without liberals fighting for worker rights

Incorrect. Liberals only voted for workers rights as it related to those belonging to unions and donating to the Democratic Party.

FYI the Healthplans and not for profit hospitals aren't unionized.

 

[Skull Pilot]

No you are pooling your risk with the risk of others so as to minimize potential losses Those deemed to have a higher risk of loss pay more or are denied insurance or they used to at least as far as health insurance is concerned. It's still that way with life insurance and every other type of insurance.

Deemed by who? By insurance company executives whose primary motivation is to make a profit. So, it's got nothing to do with your health care and everything to do with their bottom line. So how's that a benefit to you as a patient?

But the democrats started conflating health care with health insurance and changed the fundamental nature of health insurance by not allowing insurance companies to charge more or to deny coverage for high risk people so that in all reality it is not insurance anymore.

It is insurance...definitely. And in your scenario, the minute someone incurs a medical cost, they go into the high-risk pool. That makes no sense, and defeats the purpose of insurance altogether.

Yes deemed by the insurance company. They are the ones assuming the risk.

And you're wrong about my scenario as you say.

I had health insurance before Obammycare and was never put into a high risk pool or dropped from my insurance because of an illness or an injury. And before Obammycare neither were you.

If you had a cancer diagnosis and tried to get health insurance you would have been denied now you're not and the insurance company can't cap it's benefits so it is not insurance anymore and these changes are why insurance premiums continue to climb because an insurance company cannot take in a limited amount of premium and then be expected to pay out unlimited benefits.

 

[The Derp]

And most of the poor who come to the ER uninsured is due to the fact that they were too lazy to sign up for Medicaid...not because they can't.

So then why would Conservatives oppose Medicaid expansion and discourage enrollment?

 

[WillowTree]

It is a product made and sold for profit by the private industry that is forced on Americans by our government. You're welcome

Right, because no single person can reasonably afford $33K it costs to perform an appendectomy. So we have health insurance so people don't die of a burst appendix, nor do they go broke paying for the appendectomy.

How are you supposed to afford that if you don't have enough cash in your savings account?

They won't let you die. The operAtion is done then you make Rrangements for scheduled payments.

 

[WillowTree]

And most of the poor who come to the ER uninsured is due to the fact that they were too lazy to sign up for Medicaid...not because they can't.

So then why would Conservatives oppose Medicaid expansion and discourage enrollment?

MedicId is welfare.

 

[The Derp]

Yes deemed by the insurance company. They are the ones assuming the risk.

NO THEY'RE NOT! They're not using their own premiums, they're using yours. The risk isn't to the insurance company, the risk it to you financially. All insurance companies do is administer payment after taking their profit margins into account. So your choice when it comes to health care isn't freedom, you're under the control of a private entity that has prioritized its own bottom line above your health care needs. This is a system you defend? Why?

And you're wrong about my scenario as you say.

No, I'm 100% right. It's you people who are wrong. And that is evidenced above when you don't seem to understand what an insurance company actually does. They're not putting their own money at risk...they're putting yours at risk after they take as much as 20%. All this to do what? Administration. When you say they "assume the risk" you are assuming they use their own money but they don't. They use yours and everyone who pays premiums. All they do is shift money from the premium pool you paid into, to your provider. Beyond that, insurance companies do nothing else.

I had health insurance before Obammycare and was never put into a high risk pool or dropped from my insurance because of an illness or an injury. And before Obammycare neither were you.

Wrong. Millions of people found themselves kicked off their insurance pre-ACA. Millions of people found themselves going broke to pay for medical costs that insurers wouldn't cover, drugs insurers wouldn't pay for (with your premiums), and rescission. You live in a fantasy world. And just because you claim (here we go with the personal anecdotes that aren't verifiable...right on cue) you didn't face those problems doesn't mean millions didn't, or you wouldn't have eventually.

If you had a cancer diagnosis and tried to get health insurance you would have been denied now you're not and the insurance company can't cap it's benefits so it is not insurance anymore

It is insurance! That is precisely what it is. It's a safety net to pay for medical costs you cannot afford out of pocket.

Conservatives simply don't know what health insurance is.

 

[The Derp]

They won't let you die. The operAtion is done then you make Rrangements for scheduled payments.

Right, wage garnishment. That's what "scheduled payments" is. So let's call it what it is. And every dollar you lose in wage garnishment is a dollar the consumer economy loses. And the consumer economy is 70% of our economy and where the growth happens.

And why should someone go broke or have their wages garnished for something entirely out of their control? That makes no sense.

 

[The Derp]

MedicId is welfare.

So what? People need health care. You want people to just die in the streets?

 

[The Derp]

MedicId is welfare.

Again, why would you discourage enrollment in Medicaid? You like the idea of paying higher premiums because people don't have insurance and incur high medical costs they can't pay?

 

[WillowTree]

MedicId is welfare.

Again, why would you discourage enrollment in Medicaid? You like the idea of paying higher premiums because people don't have insurance and incur high medical costs they can't pay?

Hey I was poor once my husband needed a heArt carb we spent five years paying for it but we did pay for it

 

[WillowTree]

There is a certain dignity in assuming responsibility

 

[Skull Pilot]

Yes deemed by the insurance company. They are the ones assuming the risk.

NO THEY'RE NOT! They're not using their own premiums, they're using yours. The risk isn't to the insurance company, the risk it to you financially. All insurance companies do is administer payment after taking their profit margins into account. So your choice when it comes to health care isn't freedom, you're under the control of a private entity that has prioritized its own bottom line above your health care needs. This is a system you defend? Why?

And you're wrong about my scenario as you say.

No, I'm 100% right. It's you people who are wrong. And that is evidenced above when you don't seem to understand what an insurance company actually does. They're not putting their own money at risk...they're putting yours at risk after they take as much as 20%. All this to do what? Administration. When you say they "assume the risk" you are assuming they use their own money but they don't. They use yours and everyone who pays premiums. All they do is shift money from the premium pool you paid into, to your provider. Beyond that, insurance companies do nothing else.

I had health insurance before Obammycare and was never put into a high risk pool or dropped from my insurance because of an illness or an injury. And before Obammycare neither were you.

Wrong. Millions of people found themselves kicked off their insurance pre-ACA. Millions of people found themselves going broke to pay for medical costs that insurers wouldn't cover, drugs insurers wouldn't pay for (with your premiums), and rescission. You live in a fantasy world. And just because you claim (here we go with the personal anecdotes that aren't verifiable...right on cue) you didn't face those problems doesn't mean millions didn't, or you wouldn't have eventually.

If you had a cancer diagnosis and tried to get health insurance you would have been denied now you're not and the insurance company can't cap it's benefits so it is not insurance anymore

It is insurance! That is precisely what it is. It's a safety net to pay for medical costs you cannot afford out of pocket.

Conservatives simply don't know what health insurance is.

I already told you insurance is a risk management tool that's what it is and always has been.

People pay for insurance as a hedge against risk that is all.

 

[BlueGin]

They won't let you die. The operAtion is done then you make Rrangements for scheduled payments.

Right, wage garnishment. That's what "scheduled payments" is. So let's call it what it is. And every dollar you lose in wage garnishment is a dollar the consumer economy loses. And the consumer economy is 70% of our economy and where the growth happens.

And why should someone go broke or have their wages garnished for something entirely out of their control? That makes no sense.

Or you can apply for a grant through a non profit. Not only will they pay medical expenses they will provide transportation. And you can get that information from your health care provider in lieu of a payment plan.

 

[The Derp]

Hey I was poor once my husband needed a heArt carb we spent five years paying for it but we did pay for it

And what if for some reason, you couldn't pay it. What happened then? Bankruptcy. Which was the case for 60% of those who filed for bankruptcy pre-ACA. And 75% of them were people who had insurance. So what happens to the debt when you file for bankruptcy? How does your provider recoup that?

And garnishing wages takes money out of the consumer economy, where it creates jobs. So you're doing double stupidity first by plunging people into debt, and then killing jobs because you think it's better for people to have less money to spend.

 

[The Derp]

There is a certain dignity in assuming responsibility

There's also a certain dignity in knowing what the fuck you're talking about, which doesn't seem to be the case with you.

There is no dignity in wage garnishment.