Do Faithful Muslims Lie?

[Mr.Fitnah]

Kalam since you are the voice of Islam here please just answer and stop trying to obfuscate.

My posts are clear. Your poor reading comprehension doesn't imply any sort of obfuscation on my part. Sorry...

You have not address the question I understand why you wish to avoid it

Please explain the "until all religion part the fight until all religion is for all" part.
Here are several translations of the verse.

Compared Translations of the meaning of the Quran - 8:39

here are some of the variations .

and all worship is devoted to God alone
and religion is all for Allah.
and religion should be only for Allah;
, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere
and so that the entire system is God's.
no temptations and their obedience be wholly unto Allah.
and the religion, all of it be to God,
and the religion is all for Allah;
__________________


How does that not fit into the "Islamic world domination conspiracy theory."

 

[Adamo]

Kalam since you are the voice of Islam here please just answer and stop trying to obfuscate.

My posts are clear. Your poor reading comprehension doesn't imply any sort of obfuscation on my part. Sorry...

You have not address the question I understand why you wish to avoid it

Please explain the "until all religion part the fight until all religion is for all" part.
Here are several translations of the verse.

Compared Translations of the meaning of the Quran - 8:39

here are some of the variations .

and all worship is devoted to God alone
and religion is all for Allah.
and religion should be only for Allah;
, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere
and so that the entire system is God's.
no temptations and their obedience be wholly unto Allah.
and the religion, all of it be to God,
and the religion is all for Allah;
__________________


How does that not fit into the "Islamic world domination conspiracy theory."

Why don't you just go ask your imam?

 

[Ravi]

My posts are clear. Your poor reading comprehension doesn't imply any sort of obfuscation on my part. Sorry...

You have not address the question I understand why you wish to avoid it

Please explain the "until all religion part the fight until all religion is for all" part.
Here are several translations of the verse.

Compared Translations of the meaning of the Quran - 8:39

here are some of the variations .

and all worship is devoted to God alone
and religion is all for Allah.
and religion should be only for Allah;
, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere
and so that the entire system is God's.
no temptations and their obedience be wholly unto Allah.
and the religion, all of it be to God,
and the religion is all for Allah;
__________________


How does that not fit into the "Islamic world domination conspiracy theory."

Why don't you just go ask your imam?

IMO it simply means what "God" said in the old testament...there should be no gods before me.

Fitnah is a cherry picker and suffers from confirmation bias.

 

[uscitizen]

I just read the Cliffs Notes version of the Koran.

 

[Madeline]

No they are not Kalam. You refer to "context" and "end notes" that not only non-Muslims cannot understand, and I imagine most Muslims don't either.

If you point to a specific part of one of my posts that's giving you trouble, I'll try to break it down for you.

I believe you stated that only faithful Muslims who understand Arabic can truly understand what is written in the Koran. Does that include Madeline?

Does Madeline claim to "truly understand what is written in the Koran"?

Madeline claims that Mr. Fitnah is completely wrong in his intepretation. How can someone completely discredit another's opinion without having any understanding on the subject?

I base my claim on the advice and counsel of a knowledgable Muslim I reached out to (not someone here); on the remarks of the only faithful Muslims here, Kalam and Sunni Man; and on my own training in sociology, psychology and anthropology.

Please re-read what I have written, chanel. Meanwhile I stand by my own remarks, and what's more important, I reject and renouce a call for a New American Bigotry targeting my fellow Americans who are Muslims.

 

[uscitizen]

If you point to a specific part of one of my posts that's giving you trouble, I'll try to break it down for you.


Does Madeline claim to "truly understand what is written in the Koran"?

Madeline claims that Mr. Fitnah is completely wrong in his intepretation. How can someone completely discredit another's opinion without having any understanding on the subject?

I base my claim on the advice and counsel of a knowledgable Muslim I reached out to (not someone here); on the remarks of the only faithful Muslims here, Kalam and Sunni Man; and on my own training in sociology, psychology and anthropology.

Please re-read what I have written, chanel. Meanwhile I stand by my own remarks, and what's more important, I reject and renouce a call for a New American Bigotry targeting my fellow Americans who are Muslims.

As good of a reason as any to reject the Tea Party nutz.

 

[Madeline]

No they are not Kalam. You refer to "context" and "end notes" that not only non-Muslims cannot understand, and I imagine most Muslims don't either.

If you point to a specific part of one of my posts that's giving you trouble, I'll try to break it down for you.

I believe you stated that only faithful Muslims who understand Arabic can truly understand what is written in the Koran. Does that include Madeline?

Does Madeline claim to "truly understand what is written in the Koran"?

No. I just claim to be able to detect rancid bullshit in Mr. Fitnah's posts.

 

[Madeline]

uscitizen wrote:

As good of a reason as any to reject the Tea Party nutz.

I think some still believe that Tea Party is "all about the money", but look at who they selected to run for office. Who they listen to. Who they target for cuts in government spending.

If it ever was "all about the money", it ain't no more. If being seen with racists bothered me, I'd be walking away from the Tea Party. But I never joined; I actually wanted to wait and see what Obama would do before I targeted him for defeat.

 

[uscitizen]

Yeah I had a bit of hope for Obama. Alas...

He turned out to be just another cog in the machine. which I expected anyway, but was hoping to be suprised.

 

[Madeline]

Yeah I had a bit of hope for Obama. Alas...

He turned out to be just another cog in the machine. which I expected anyway, but was hoping to be suprised.

Yeah, me too.

 

[Si modo]

If you point to a specific part of one of my posts that's giving you trouble, I'll try to break it down for you.


Does Madeline claim to "truly understand what is written in the Koran"?

Madeline claims that Mr. Fitnah is completely wrong in his intepretation. How can someone completely discredit another's opinion without having any understanding on the subject?

I base my claim on the advice and counsel of a knowledgable Muslim I reached out to (not someone here); on the remarks of the only faithful Muslims here, Kalam and Sunni Man; and on my own training in sociology, psychology and anthropology.

Please re-read what I have written, chanel. Meanwhile I stand by my own remarks, and what's more important, I reject and renouce a call for a New American Bigotry targeting my fellow Americans who are Muslims.

Your pile is so fresh that it's still steaming.

 

[Sky Dancer]

No they are not Kalam. You refer to "context" and "end notes" that not only non-Muslims cannot understand, and I imagine most Muslims don't either.

If you point to a specific part of one of my posts that's giving you trouble, I'll try to break it down for you.

I believe you stated that only faithful Muslims who understand Arabic can truly understand what is written in the Koran. Does that include Madeline?

Does Madeline claim to "truly understand what is written in the Koran"?

Madeline claims that Mr. Fitnah is completely wrong in his intepretation. How can someone completely discredit another's opinion without having any understanding on the subject?

Mr Fitnah's conclusions no matter what passage he studies is that Islam is evil. Such a biased conclusion can be discredited without much effort at study.

Fitnahs study of the Qu'ran is superficial and is not informed by any Islamic practice himself.

He's a layman, not a practitioner of Islam. Further, he's a lay man with a negative agenda toward Muslims and the Islamic faith.

He has to ignore the evidence of all the law abiding Muslim citizens in our country who don't do any of the ugly things he accuses them of.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Yeah I had a bit of hope for Obama. Alas...

He turned out to be just another cog in the machine. which I expected anyway, but was hoping to be suprised.

Yeah, me too.

I've been disappointed by President Obama too.

 

[Madeline]

Yeah I had a bit of hope for Obama. Alas...

He turned out to be just another cog in the machine. which I expected anyway, but was hoping to be suprised.

Yeah, me too.

I've been disappointed by President Obama too.

Some of that is my fault. I was overly-excited by him; I cried when he was inaugerated. But some of it is 100% Obama's fault...and he blew what may have been the most changable moment in US history in my lifetime.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Yeah, me too.

I've been disappointed by President Obama too.

Some of that is my fault. I was overly-excited by him; I cried when he was inaugerated. But some of it is 100% Obama's fault...and he blew what may have been the most changable moment in US history in my lifetime.

I still think we are better off than if we had McCain and Palin in office.

 

[Madeline]

I've been disappointed by President Obama too.

Some of that is my fault. I was overly-excited by him; I cried when he was inaugerated. But some of it is 100% Obama's fault...and he blew what may have been the most changable moment in US history in my lifetime.

I still think we are better off than if we had McCain and Palin in office.

Yes we are, doubtless. But I had higher hopes for Obama than "surpassed an old Republican and his crazy wingwoman".

 

[uscitizen]

Yeah, me too.

I've been disappointed by President Obama too.

Some of that is my fault. I was overly-excited by him; I cried when he was inaugerated. But some of it is 100% Obama's fault...and he blew what may have been the most changable moment in US history in my lifetime.

I was not at all thrilled by Obama winning. More of a bit of relief mixed with resignation.
I did vote for him or better stated as against Palin and McCain.
It would be nice to have someone to vote for.
I envy the tea baggers in one way.
They actually believe. They have faith in their party and platforms.
All mostly hogwash, but followed faithfully.

 

[Kalam]

Madeline claims that Mr. Fitnah is completely wrong in his intepretation. How can someone completely discredit another's opinion without having any understanding on the subject?

Remind me who's doing that again.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Mr Kalam,thank you for confirming a great deal of what I have been saying about Islam all along to some extent the part in the italics is debatable.
As you know transgression is permitted against wrongdoers


.

From your source
8. Al Anfal (The Spoils of War)
Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi - Tafhim al-Qur'an - The Meaning of the Qur'an
3:39
And the end notes
2:204/205

. As a matter of fact, Islam allows freedom of belief to all non-Muslims. One may adopt any way of life that one chooses and may or may not worship anyone or anything.

It exhorts the believers to preach and to persuade the unbelievers and the wrong doers by argument to give up their false faith and evil ways, but it does not allow the unbelievers the right to enforce on God's earth any ungodly law and make the servants of Allah the servants of some one else.

In order to remove such an unjust condition, Islam allows both preaching and fighting according to the requirements of the occasion. The believers, therefore, cannot rest content unless this fitnah, political domination and legal sovereignty of unbelievers, is eradicated and freedom for the Way of Allah is secured.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/2866790-post161.html


How does that not fit into the "Islamic world domination conspiracy theory."

 

[Kalam]

Kalam since you are the voice of Islam here please just answer and stop trying to obfuscate.

My posts are clear. Your poor reading comprehension doesn't imply any sort of obfuscation on my part. Sorry...

You have not address the question I understand why you wish to avoid it

Please explain the "until all religion part the fight until all religion is for all" part.
Here are several translations of the verse.

Compared Translations of the meaning of the Quran - 8:39

here are some of the variations .

and all worship is devoted to God alone
and religion is all for Allah.
and religion should be only for Allah;
, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere
and so that the entire system is God's.
no temptations and their obedience be wholly unto Allah.
and the religion, all of it be to God,
and the religion is all for Allah;
__________________


How does that not fit into the "Islamic world domination conspiracy theory."

Aaaaaaaand there's the third repeat post in a row.

This is the last time I do your work for you.

Here is your request.

Please explain the "until all religion part the fight until all religion is for all" part.

وَقاتِلوهُم حَتّىٰ لا تَكونَ فِتنَةٌ وَيَكونَ الدّينُ كُلُّهُ لِلَّهِ ۚ فَإِنِ انتَهَوا فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ بِما يَعمَلونَ بَصيرٌ

Wa qatiluuhum hattaa la takuuna fitnatun wa yakuuna ad-deenu kulluhu lillahi fa-ini intahaw fa-inna Allaha bimaa ya'maluuna baseerun

And fight them until there is no strife and ad-deen is wholly Allah's. (Then/So) if they desist, then indeed Allah of what they (work/do) is Seer.

Deen - "judgement," "recompense," "religion," "way," etc.

From my post several pages back:

Here the word "fitnah" has been used in a different sense from that in verse 191. The context clearly shows that here it denotes that condition of society which is not safe and free for adoption of the way of Allah. That is why the Muslims have been exhorted to continue the tight to change this state of affairs and to restore peace and freedom for the way of Allah. It should also be noted that the Arabic word 'din' which has been translated here into "Way" originally means "submission" and is technically used for the way of life which is built on the sovereignty of someone whose commands and regulations are to be followed. Therefore that condition of society in which there is the rule and sovereignty of man over man and in which it is not possible for anyone to follow the Way of Allah is fitnah. The aim of war in Islam is to abolish fitnah and establish Allah's Way so as to enable people to live as servants of Allah in accordance with the Divine Law.

205. It does not wean that Islam incites the believers to go to war to force unbelievers at the point of sword to give up disbelief and polytheism and adopt the Way of Allah instead. War is to be waged only to make them give up fitnah. As a matter of fact, Islam allows freedom of belief to all non-Muslims. One may adopt any way of life that one chooses and may or may not worship anyone or anything.​

"And fight them until there is no fitnah and the deen is wholly Allah's."

The meaning of this according to the definitions provided in Tafhim al-Qur'an is "fight until the obstacles preventing the safe and free adoption of the way of Allah are removed and until power is wrested from the hands of tyrants and the only sovereignty over Muslims belongs to Allah."