Do Natural Rights Exist Without Government ?

[dilloduck]

If it was absurd you would be able to mock it, all you have been able to do is argue that it isn't real because you don't believe in it.

Oh it's easy to mock it----my favorite is still claiming they exist because the government made a law about them.

Then it is a good thing I never said that, isn't it?

someone else did---I'm glad--it was funny

 

[dilloduck]

Does that mean behavior is not real in your universe?

you pick a behavior that is not a real natural right and pretend it to be so

I am sure you have examples, I know I do. That doesn't change the fact that some rights are actually real.

Sure rights can be real. they just aren't natural. They are man made constructs

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I dont really have to defend anything at all to have an open mind. I am sitting here open to you proving natural rights (which is an oxymoron) exist without man. Please teach me by showing me proof. Theories dont count.

You claim that your disbelief in natural rights, even though you have absolutely no evidence to back up that belief, is proof they don't exist. You then demand that I overcome your unwillingness to accept the evidence by insisting that I prove that natural rights exist in three sentences or less. The fact that you are totally unwilling to go back and read the previous arguments, or even the arguments that are repeated upon demand, is all the evidence I need to prove your mind is closed.

Feel free to prove me wrong my actually addressing the arguments laid out in defense of natural rights, and laying out all your evidence to the contrary.

Sorry but I do have evidence. Natural means not man made. Case closed. You have presented no evidence. You can expound theories all day long but that doesn't make them facts just because you believe them to be. stop stalling and provide me proof of a right that exists without man saying it does.

For the same of argument I will accept that as the definitive definition of natural. Now, all you have to do, is show me the man that actually made rights.

I won't hold my breath.

 

[Asclepias]

My point exactly---we are free to think and do whatever we want. I don't need someone to come up with a list of so called natural rights for me when I already have the freedom to do whatever I want.

Just in case Quantum misses it I now grant you the right to have freedom of choice.

Just in case you missed it, he had that right before you granted. In other words, you are not the source of that right, neither is the government.

No I just gave him the right. I am a man. He always had freedom of choice but he didnt have the right until I granted it. Thats pretty much the point of rights.

 

[dilloduck]

Just in case Quantum misses it I now grant you the right to have freedom of choice.

Just in case you missed it, he had that right before you granted. In other words, you are not the source of that right, neither is the government.

No I just gave him the right. I am a man. He always had freedom of choice but he didnt have the hat right until I granted it. Thats pretty much the point of rights.

Thanks for granting me the rights, bro !

 

[Quantum Windbag]

you pick a behavior that is not a real natural right and pretend it to be so

I am sure you have examples, I know I do. That doesn't change the fact that some rights are actually real.

Sure rights can be real. they just aren't natural. They are man made constructs

Which man made them? Show me evidence they did not exist before he made them. Explain why animals have the ability to chose, and have a sense of right and wring, given the fact that these are all made by man. Does that make man God?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Just in case Quantum misses it I now grant you the right to have freedom of choice.

Just in case you missed it, he had that right before you granted. In other words, you are not the source of that right, neither is the government.

No I just gave him the right. I am a man. He always had freedom of choice but he didnt have the right until I granted it. Thats pretty much the point of rights.

Now you think you are God. That is even more mock worthy than insisting that aliens built the pyramids and that the fact that black people exist is proof you are right.

 

[dilloduck]

I am sure you have examples, I know I do. That doesn't change the fact that some rights are actually real.

Sure rights can be real. they just aren't natural. They are man made constructs

Which man made them? Show me evidence they did not exist before he made them. Explain why animals have the ability to chose, and have a sense of right and wring, given the fact that these are all made by man. Does that make man God?

You know full well that a negative can't be proven. You made the claim that natural rights exist therefore you must present us with one. No ---man is still not God.

 

[RKMBrown]

not I. The government has cherry picked a few rights that it decided were important at the time and made some laws to protect them. They didn't grant anything.

Only the rights they decided to protect are arguably more important than your demand for a right to believe in rainbow colored unicorns.

Possibly but it certainly doesn't make them natural or inalienable.

Says you.

 

[Asclepias]

Just in case you missed it, he had that right before you granted. In other words, you are not the source of that right, neither is the government.

No I just gave him the right. I am a man. He always had freedom of choice but he didnt have the right until I granted it. Thats pretty much the point of rights.

Now you think you are God. That is even more mock worthy than insisting that aliens built the pyramids and that the fact that black people exist is proof you are right.

Now you think you man = God. You are losing you cool with each post Quantum.

 

[Asclepias]

No I just gave him the right. I am a man. He always had freedom of choice but he didnt have the right until I granted it. Thats pretty much the point of rights.

Now you think you are God. That is even more mock worthy than insisting that aliens built the pyramids and that the fact that black people exist is proof you are right.

Now you think man = God. You are losing you cool with each post Quantum.

 

[RKMBrown]

of course not---why would we ?

So, once again, you are arguing that rights exist without the government.

Yet you are still arguing with me because I insist they exist without government.

you claim that there are natural right that exist without the government-----my claim is that there are no natural rights period. We are simple free to do whatever we wish. Nothing more need be said.

So all this has been you whining about use of the term natural right as a substitute for your preferred phrase free to do whatever we wish? ROFL yeah your broad based phrase "free to do whatever we wish" is so much clearer than natural rights. Who the hell granted you the freedom to do whatever you wish? If you can't prove in three sentences that someone granted you that freedom then you are full of hot air.

 

[dilloduck]

Only the rights they decided to protect are arguably more important than your demand for a right to believe in rainbow colored unicorns.

Possibly but it certainly doesn't make them natural or inalienable.

Says you.

DOH---I've only be debating that fact for days. Put up or shut up. I wanna see a natural or inalienable right.

 

[RKMBrown]

Just in case Quantum misses it I now grant you the right to have freedom of choice.

Just in case you missed it, he had that right before you granted. In other words, you are not the source of that right, neither is the government.

No I just gave him the right. I am a man. He always had freedom of choice but he didnt have the right until I granted it. Thats pretty much the point of rights.

The granting of rights is only necessary for some types of rights. For example, patent rights require a grant. But copyright does not.

 

[RKMBrown]

Possibly but it certainly doesn't make them natural or inalienable.

Says you.

DOH---I've only be debating that fact for days. Put up or shut up. I wanna see a natural or inalienable right.

No you don't. You want to pretend they don't exist by putting your hands over your ears and stomping up and down.

"Natural and legal rights are two types of rights: legal rights are those bestowed onto a person by a given legal system, while natural rights are those not contingent upon the laws, customs, or beliefs of any particular culture or government, and therefore universal and inalienable."

For example, a natural right would be the right of a person to think and contemplate actions. However, some actions when taken may require and/or be associated with legal rights.

 

[Asclepias]

Just in case you missed it, he had that right before you granted. In other words, you are not the source of that right, neither is the government.

No I just gave him the right. I am a man. He always had freedom of choice but he didnt have the hat right until I granted it. Thats pretty much the point of rights.

Thanks for granting me the rights, bro !

No problem bro. Any time you need some more rights just let me know!

 

[dilloduck]

No I just gave him the right. I am a man. He always had freedom of choice but he didnt have the hat right until I granted it. Thats pretty much the point of rights.

Thanks for granting me the rights, bro !

No problem bro. Any time you need some more rights just let me know!

It does help a lot if I'm doing something questionable. I just tell em you gave me the right to do it and I get a free pass.

 

[Asclepias]

Says you.

DOH---I've only be debating that fact for days. Put up or shut up. I wanna see a natural or inalienable right.

No you don't. You want to pretend they don't exist by putting your hands over your ears and stomping up and down.

"Natural and legal rights are two types of rights: legal rights are those bestowed onto a person by a given legal system, while natural rights are those not contingent upon the laws, customs, or beliefs of any particular culture or government, and therefore universal and inalienable."

For example, a natural right would be the right of a person to think and contemplate actions. However, some actions when taken may require and/or be associated with legal rights.

Wouldn't that be a freedom? The terms "natural rights" or "inalienable rights" are oxymorons. Thats how you know they don't really exist. Freedom, even though it too is just a concept, does not contradict itself.

 

[dilloduck]

DOH---I've only be debating that fact for days. Put up or shut up. I wanna see a natural or inalienable right.

No you don't. You want to pretend they don't exist by putting your hands over your ears and stomping up and down.

"Natural and legal rights are two types of rights: legal rights are those bestowed onto a person by a given legal system, while natural rights are those not contingent upon the laws, customs, or beliefs of any particular culture or government, and therefore universal and inalienable."

For example, a natural right would be the right of a person to think and contemplate actions. However, some actions when taken may require and/or be associated with legal rights.

Wouldn't that be a freedom? The terms "natural rights" or "inalienable rights" are oxymorons. Thats how you know they don't really exist. Freedom, even though it too is just a concept, does not contradict itself.

absolutely oxymorons ! I still claim someone has a lot of trouble with the concept of God given rights so they are desperately trying to finding some other way to define them. I think they figured out that when people started to give plants and animals rights it was getting to look a little suspicious.

 

[RKMBrown]

DOH---I've only be debating that fact for days. Put up or shut up. I wanna see a natural or inalienable right.

No you don't. You want to pretend they don't exist by putting your hands over your ears and stomping up and down.

"Natural and legal rights are two types of rights: legal rights are those bestowed onto a person by a given legal system, while natural rights are those not contingent upon the laws, customs, or beliefs of any particular culture or government, and therefore universal and inalienable."

For example, a natural right would be the right of a person to think and contemplate actions. However, some actions when taken may require and/or be associated with legal rights.

Wouldn't that be a freedom? The terms "natural rights" or "inalienable rights" are oxymorons. Thats how you know they don't really exist. Freedom, even though it too is just a concept, does not contradict itself.

How can an adjective like natural, be an oxymoron of a noun like right?

Maybe that's the problem. Right as a term can be used as an adjective, adverb, and noun. In the case of natural right, natural is the adjective and right is the noun.

In this case the definition of right as a noun is "a moral or legal entitlement to have or obtain something or to act in a certain way." "She had every right to be angry."

For example, I could say everyone has the natural right to be angry. That would mean the right to be angry is not bestowed explicitly by govco in any laws or writ.

Said another way, using the adjective natural to modify the noun right, is a way of saying it is not a legal right, but rather a moral right that is well understood.

An oxymoron would be a natural amoral right to murder people. (not trying to deflect, but the natural right to abortion, is by definition an oxymoron.)