Do Natural Rights Exist Without Government ?

[Pennywise]

OK lets roll with that. Whatever you call it is it something that came from outside the human mind or is it something that is part of our biology?

It depends on one's personal philosophy. Some believe it is innate to an evolved brain, some believe it is divine (otherworldly).

Which is your personal philosophy?

I am uncertain. I really am what is considered 'a seeker'. I ruminate over it and always wonder. The only thing I know for certain is I am no better or worse than you, expect as can be measured by my deeds.

 

[Asclepias]

It depends on one's personal philosophy. Some believe it is innate to an evolved brain, some believe it is divine (otherworldly).

Which is your personal philosophy?

I am uncertain. I really am what is considered 'a seeker'. I ruminate over it and always wonder. The only thing I know for certain is I am no better or worse than you, expect as can be measured by my deeds.

That was unexpected. I was sure you were going to say the divine side. Thanks for being honest. I got you mixed up with Beagle there for a minute.

 

[Pennywise]

Which is your personal philosophy?

I am uncertain. I really am what is considered 'a seeker'. I ruminate over it and always wonder. The only thing I know for certain is I am no better or worse than you, expect as can be measured by my deeds.

That was unexpected. I was sure you were going to say the divine side. Thanks for being honest.

The older I get, the more I realize how little I know with certainty in these matters. It makes my head hurt sometimes, but I keep wondering anyway. I often think about the universe and where it ends and if it does, what is beyond? It can't be nothing, so it has to be infinite. How fucked is that? Everything and nothing, unceasing for eternity. How can it be?

I need a whiskey.

 

[dilloduck]

I am uncertain. I really am what is considered 'a seeker'. I ruminate over it and always wonder. The only thing I know for certain is I am no better or worse than you, expect as can be measured by my deeds.

That was unexpected. I was sure you were going to say the divine side. Thanks for being honest.

The older I get, the more I realize how little I know with certainty in these matters. It makes my head hurt sometimes, but I keep wondering anyway. I often think about the universe and where it ends and if it does, what is beyond? It can't be nothing, so it has to be infinite. How fucked is that? Everything and nothing, unceasing for eternity. How can it be?

I need a whiskey.

a very absurd place indeed

 

[Asclepias]

I am uncertain. I really am what is considered 'a seeker'. I ruminate over it and always wonder. The only thing I know for certain is I am no better or worse than you, expect as can be measured by my deeds.

That was unexpected. I was sure you were going to say the divine side. Thanks for being honest.

The older I get, the more I realize how little I know with certainty in these matters. It makes my head hurt sometimes, but I keep wondering anyway. I often think about the universe and where it ends and if it does, what is beyond? It can't be nothing, so it has to be infinite. How fucked is that? Everything and nothing, unceasing for eternity. How can it be?

I need a whiskey.

This is probably the reason so many seek refuge in believing in a god, creator, etc. Humans have an instinctive dislike and fear of the unknown. They seek continuity in every aspect of life. Thats why we develop habits and beliefs.

 

[dilloduck]

That was unexpected. I was sure you were going to say the divine side. Thanks for being honest.

The older I get, the more I realize how little I know with certainty in these matters. It makes my head hurt sometimes, but I keep wondering anyway. I often think about the universe and where it ends and if it does, what is beyond? It can't be nothing, so it has to be infinite. How fucked is that? Everything and nothing, unceasing for eternity. How can it be?

I need a whiskey.

This is probably the reason so many seek refuge in believing in a god, creator, etc. Humans have an instinctive dislike and fear of the unknown. They seek continuity in every aspect of life. Thats why we develop habits and beliefs.

security thoughts---zillions of them

 

[Pennywise]

That was unexpected. I was sure you were going to say the divine side. Thanks for being honest.

The older I get, the more I realize how little I know with certainty in these matters. It makes my head hurt sometimes, but I keep wondering anyway. I often think about the universe and where it ends and if it does, what is beyond? It can't be nothing, so it has to be infinite. How fucked is that? Everything and nothing, unceasing for eternity. How can it be?

I need a whiskey.

This is probably the reason so many seek refuge in believing in a god, creator, etc. Humans have an instinctive dislike and fear of the unknown. They seek continuity in every aspect of life. Thats why we develop habits and beliefs.

Possibly. Also possible God is real and one needs to be fully engaged and open to accept the truth. I've seen enough to understand that there are things that defy explanations.

But yes, we look for answers when often there are no definable ones as we understand. So then some say the process of wondering is wasteful, energy focused on folly and fantasy, etc. That I disagree with 100%, because I truly believe that the journey toward understanding makes us better people because we realize that those with whom we share the earth have rights too, and maybe we dig deep down to our spirit and forgive them when they annoy us or trespass on us. I often fail at that goal.

 

[dilloduck]

The older I get, the more I realize how little I know with certainty in these matters. It makes my head hurt sometimes, but I keep wondering anyway. I often think about the universe and where it ends and if it does, what is beyond? It can't be nothing, so it has to be infinite. How fucked is that? Everything and nothing, unceasing for eternity. How can it be?

I need a whiskey.

This is probably the reason so many seek refuge in believing in a god, creator, etc. Humans have an instinctive dislike and fear of the unknown. They seek continuity in every aspect of life. Thats why we develop habits and beliefs.

Possibly. Also possible God is real and one needs to be fully engaged and open to accept the truth. I've seen enough to understand that there are things that defy explanations.

But yes, we look for answers when often there are no definable ones as we understand. So then some say the process of wondering is wasteful, energy focused on folly and fantasy, etc. That I disagree with 100%, because I truly believe that the journey toward understanding makes us better people because we realize that those with whom we share the earth have rights too, and maybe we dig deep down to our spirit and forgive them when they annoy us or trespass on us. I often fail at that goal.

Nothing wrong at all with going the next mile to help someone---

 

[NYcarbineer]

Asking if 'natural rights' exist without government is like asking if the Sun and Moon exist without government.

List the natural rights.

 

[NYcarbineer]

For many centuries in Europe the most important natural, aka God given, right was the divine right of the king.

All the same sort of arguments for the legitimacy of that right were made that were later made to defend the natural rights espoused by those who contested the kings' divine rights.

Was divine right an invented right? Or were the so-called natural rights of the people invented to displace divine right by those who simply wanted to take the king's power away from him and make it their own?

 

[Asclepias]

The older I get, the more I realize how little I know with certainty in these matters. It makes my head hurt sometimes, but I keep wondering anyway. I often think about the universe and where it ends and if it does, what is beyond? It can't be nothing, so it has to be infinite. How fucked is that? Everything and nothing, unceasing for eternity. How can it be?

I need a whiskey.

This is probably the reason so many seek refuge in believing in a god, creator, etc. Humans have an instinctive dislike and fear of the unknown. They seek continuity in every aspect of life. Thats why we develop habits and beliefs.

Possibly. Also possible God is real and one needs to be fully engaged and open to accept the truth. I've seen enough to understand that there are things that defy explanations.

But yes, we look for answers when often there are no definable ones as we understand. So then some say the process of wondering is wasteful, energy focused on folly and fantasy, etc. That I disagree with 100%, because I truly believe that the journey toward understanding makes us better people because we realize that those with whom we share the earth have rights too, and maybe we dig deep down to our spirit and forgive them when they annoy us or trespass on us. I often fail at that goal.

I'm comfortable with possibly being wrong. I would love nothing better than to be wrong about this. I know for certain I don't have all the answers and I like exploring the possibilities that other truths are the real path. Fear is the root of all "evil" we tend to get afraid when someone disrupts our reality.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

oh damn----I didn't see the hypothetical rule book you wrote.

It wasn't my hypothesis, I just played by the rules set up by Asclepias.

Actually the island was my contribution.

The guy not having any rights because the island government didn't give them to him wasn't.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Who made up philosophy?

No one, it is a process of man's understanding of man. It has evolved over millenia, like language.

No one? How did it come to be part of human evolution? Where did we pick it up from?

Where did you pick up the ability to walk upright? To see?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No one? How did it come to be part of human evolution? Where did we pick it up from?

It is through enlightenment: a spiritual awakening of the mind. It became part of human evolution like language and art as we broke free from basic instincts and sought to understand our place in the universe.

Despite what some believe, we are not the same as beasts; we are better because we are introspective. This doesn't mean all of us are better or even that the better among us are always better, but it means our ability to empathize shows that we know we are just a small part of the greater universe.

Not to demean your religion or belief but why is that simply not just a function of our specific biology? Why does it have to have a religious explanation? Animals have languages. They communicate with each other with sounds that represent concepts.

And those concepts include right and wrong, and even rights.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It is through enlightenment: a spiritual awakening of the mind. It became part of human evolution like language and art as we broke free from basic instincts and sought to understand our place in the universe.

Despite what some believe, we are not the same as beasts; we are better because we are introspective. This doesn't mean all of us are better or even that the better among us are always better, but it means our ability to empathize shows that we know we are just a small part of the greater universe.

Not to demean your religion or belief but why is that simply not just a function of our specific biology? Why does it have to have a religious explanation? Animals have languages. They communicate with each other with sounds that represent concepts.

I didn't mention religion.

All Asclepias has is hatred of religion, which is why he cannot think beyond those terms.

 

[Asclepias]

For many centuries in Europe the most important natural, aka God given, right was the divine right of the king.

All the same sort of arguments for the legitimacy of that right were made that were later made to defend the natural rights espoused by those who contested the kings' divine rights.

Was divine right an invented right? Or were the so-called natural rights of the people invented to displace divine right by those who simply wanted to take the king's power away from him and make it their own?

Let me guess....the kings were in power?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

That was unexpected. I was sure you were going to say the divine side. Thanks for being honest.

The older I get, the more I realize how little I know with certainty in these matters. It makes my head hurt sometimes, but I keep wondering anyway. I often think about the universe and where it ends and if it does, what is beyond? It can't be nothing, so it has to be infinite. How fucked is that? Everything and nothing, unceasing for eternity. How can it be?

I need a whiskey.

This is probably the reason so many seek refuge in believing in a god, creator, etc. Humans have an instinctive dislike and fear of the unknown. They seek continuity in every aspect of life. Thats why we develop habits and beliefs.

Humans have an instinctive dislike and fear of the unknown? What possible justification can you use to defend that absurd idea? Every iota of evidence from science and history contradicts the idea that humans are afraid of what they don't know. If we were really the cowards you are we wouldn't be where we are now, we would either be extinct, or still living on the plains of Africa hiding from all the dangers in the world.

No wonder you can't see the rights that are right in front of your face, you are hiding under the bed. Want to tell me how you aren't afraid of freedom again?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The older I get, the more I realize how little I know with certainty in these matters. It makes my head hurt sometimes, but I keep wondering anyway. I often think about the universe and where it ends and if it does, what is beyond? It can't be nothing, so it has to be infinite. How fucked is that? Everything and nothing, unceasing for eternity. How can it be?

I need a whiskey.

This is probably the reason so many seek refuge in believing in a god, creator, etc. Humans have an instinctive dislike and fear of the unknown. They seek continuity in every aspect of life. Thats why we develop habits and beliefs.

security thoughts---zillions of them

Only the insecure need security thoughts, the real humans only need their wits.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

For many centuries in Europe the most important natural, aka God given, right was the divine right of the king.

All the same sort of arguments for the legitimacy of that right were made that were later made to defend the natural rights espoused by those who contested the kings' divine rights.

Was divine right an invented right? Or were the so-called natural rights of the people invented to displace divine right by those who simply wanted to take the king's power away from him and make it their own?

Do you even know what the divine right of kings means, or do you just throw the term around to sound pretentious?

 

[dilloduck]

This is probably the reason so many seek refuge in believing in a god, creator, etc. Humans have an instinctive dislike and fear of the unknown. They seek continuity in every aspect of life. Thats why we develop habits and beliefs.

security thoughts---zillions of them

Only the insecure need security thoughts, the real humans only need their wits.

true----that's why we have zillions---we have zillions of witless people.