Do SCOTUS' Gay Marriage Stays-In-Interim Apply to All 50 States?

[TheOldSchool]

Virginia gay marriage ban is unconstitutional, federal court rules

[YOUTUBE]rY0WxgSXdEE[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Silhouette]

Seems with a stay the SCOTUS is as least leaning towards its Windsor Opinion? A stay is assumed in Virginia's case and all the other states now that Utah won it on the grounds that its voters would be denied the power of their vote without the stay. Power of the vote cannot only be applied to just one state.

You know full well that if the power of voters was the swaying argument in Utah, that a federal entity like SCOTUS may not disenfranchise that same protection in other states, even in the interim. All one voter would have to do is ask. It isn't the AG's civil rights being suppressed in California, or Virginia for that matter. It's the 7 million voters as of the day the Utah stay was granted... Or any one of that 7 million who pressed the issue legally. Any single one of them or group of them would have standing. SCOTUS could simply not deny them protection.

You know it.

 

[Peach]

At the rate the "bans" are being overturned, some states will stop wasting money, and end the "gays cannot marry" void ab initio "laws". This is costing taxpayers a fortune!

 

[Inevitable]

At the rate the "bans" are being overturned, some states will stop wasting money, and end the "gays cannot marry" void ab initio "laws". This is costing taxpayers a fortune!

But people like Sil just have to use the state to force everybody to conform to their beliefs. You see he suffers from severe existential angst. So much so that he makes up some crap about pride parades, which seem to happen without same sex couples being allowed to marry.

You know, I don't really get his caterwalling at all. He dislikes the fact that homosexuals exist and I guess he thinks they will all just disappear if they can't get married soon.

 

[Peach]

At the rate the "bans" are being overturned, some states will stop wasting money, and end the "gays cannot marry" void ab initio "laws". This is costing taxpayers a fortune!

But people like Sil just have to use the state to force everybody to conform to their beliefs. You see he suffers from severe existential angst. So much so that he makes up some crap about pride parades, which seem to happen without same sex couples being allowed to marry.

You know, I don't really get his caterwalling at all. He dislikes the fact that homosexuals exist and I guess he thinks they will all just disappear if they can't get married soon.

I care not about angst, be it existential or rational. I dislike the existance of grocery shelves beyond my reach, but do not ask that overgrown humans cease existing.

(Nobody is BORN tall, they CHOOSE to be that way)

 

[WorldWatcher]

Seems with a stay the SCOTUS is as least leaning towards its Windsor Opinion?

Really it's unknown, but noting they may be leaning toward a Windsor like opinion where they found discrimination against homosexuals unconstitutional might not be a far stretch.

Remember, at it's core Windsor found unequal treatment of homosexual unconstitutional.

A stay is assumed in Virginia's case...

There is no "assumed stay", it will depend on if those with standing apply for one or not. It's unlikely the Governor or AG will, but since the Clerk of the Courts in Norfolk is a named entity - then he has standing to apply for one.

If he chooses not to do that, then in about 3-weeks the appeal period will pass and SSCM's will start in Virginia.

and all the other states now that Utah won it on the grounds that its voters would be denied the power of their vote without the stay. Power of the vote cannot only be applied to just one state.

Nope, stays are by case and are applicable to that case. Decisions set precedence within a jurisdiction. No decision has been issued on whether States can discriminate against homosexuals for no compelling government reason.

Utah Governor applied for one - accepted.

Oregon Governor declined to apply, a citizens group tried - rejected.


SSCM's on hold in Utah, but not in Oregon.



>>>>

 

[Silhouette]

Really it's unknown, but noting they may be leaning toward a Windsor like opinion where they found discrimination against homosexuals unconstitutional might not be a far stretch.

Remember, at it's core Windsor found unequal treatment of homosexual unconstitutional.

It's not unknown. SCOTUS was debating the role of states vs fed in who determines marriage. "At its core" was this question and not the question of if homosexuals have intrinsic "civil rights" because of their sexual behaviors.

SCOTUS defined constitutionally that states have the right to say yes or no to gay marriage and based on that Finding, the fed had to listen. Not because being gay has special protections! Nice try.

 

[Silhouette]

..There is no "assumed stay", it will depend on if those with standing apply for one or not. It's unlikely the Governor or AG will, but since the Clerk of the Courts in Norfolk is a named entity - then he has standing to apply for one.

If he chooses not to do that, then in about 3-weeks the appeal period will pass and SSCM's will start in Virginia...

...stays are by case and are applicable to that case. Decisions set precedence within a jurisdiction. No decision has been issued on whether States can discriminate against homosexuals for no compelling government reason.

Utah Governor applied for one - accepted.

Oregon Governor declined to apply, a citizens group tried - rejected.


SSCM's on hold in Utah, but not in Oregon.



>>>>

So what jurisdiction does SCOTUS have in protecting the civil rights of voters in the interim? Last time I checked, SCOTUS on the question of civil rights has the jurisdiction of all 50 states and that even for one minute it cannot favor one state over another when civil rights are concerned.

Based on that if I was a California voter, I would file for redress to bypass the AG and governor and legislature of my state [because they are the culpable parties and cannot be expected to advocate on behalf of those they are knowingly suppressing ...see Windsor 2013 and the recent Utah stay grant] to get relief for my civil rights as a voter and citizen of the USA.

 

[Silhouette]

The two cultures? Complete hogwash. Plenty of heterosexual people love miley cyrus and are actively involved in that culture or don't care. Plenty of gay people do not strip down at pride parades or even go. There is no such thing as a single "homosexual culture" and "heterosexual culture."

But there are such things as gay pride parades where lewd acts are performed soberly in a parade, in anticipation and hopes that children will be onlooking, constructed to portray the general cultures values and pride, sexually speaking. There are no such parades in public on behalf of the hetero culture.

People can buy Miley Cyrus' albums, watch videos of her and so forth in private. Down a public thoroughfare in broad daylight as a matter of "pride" children cannot escape the spectacle....with all the bright rainbow colors and decorative floats that seemed designed wiht the attraction of a child's eye in mind...

 

[September]

Anyone who is young and beautiful should experiment with both sexes during our youth and discover the pleasures that males and females both can offer!

Explore your inherant bisexuality with the most beautiful of women and the most handsome of males!

Know what it is like to dominate someone sexually. Know what it is like to submit to someone sexually. Know what it is like to embrace both at once!

Explore all those areas of your body that offer great sexual sensations. Explore those taboos that you know you've always wanted to try.

Young females- explore the physical sensations of double penetration! Explore the mental sensation of strapon fucking a male! Learn to appreciate the beautiful sexual areas of your fellow females! Don't deny the female orgasm, and don't deny the pleasures of oral and anal! Learn to appreciate the most beautiful feminine characteristics among one another that makes us females sexually superior to men! Learn to appreciate the beauty of a healthy, attractive, and sexually endowed female! Look into her eyes, run your fingers through her hair and other places, feel the curves of her sexual areas, the warmth of her body, her smooth skin, and the taste of her lips and other areas...

Young males- explore the sensations of anal intercourse, whether receptive or otherwise. Learn to appreciate a huge cock, and the body of a tall, built, muscular manly man... or a slim, smooth beautiful male.

For all genders, learn the sensations of clean, safe sex in a group setting!

Or explore BDSM, and discover the sensations that await in partaking in those taboos and fetishes you know you always wanted to experience!

Or know what it is like to explore your sexual Nature while under the influence!

If you are spiritual, learn to explore that spirituality sexually with ritual sex, sexual invocation, sexual evocation, or sexual sacrifice!

Give yourself to Babalon!

 

[JoeB131]

The two cultures? Complete hogwash. Plenty of heterosexual people love miley cyrus and are actively involved in that culture or don't care. Plenty of gay people do not strip down at pride parades or even go. There is no such thing as a single "homosexual culture" and "heterosexual culture."

But there are such things as gay pride parades where lewd acts are performed soberly in a parade, in anticipation and hopes that children will be onlooking, constructed to portray the general cultures values and pride, sexually speaking. There are no such parades in public on behalf of the hetero culture.

Isn't that like saying, "Why isn't there a White HIstory Month?"

People can buy Miley Cyrus' albums, watch videos of her and so forth in private. Down a public thoroughfare in broad daylight as a matter of "pride" children cannot escape the spectacle....with all the bright rainbow colors and decorative floats that seemed designed wiht the attraction of a child's eye in mind...

Wouldn't parents have to KNOWINGLY bring their kids to a Pride Parade for them to see the "Lewd" acts?

And how is that any different than what goes on in Madi gras in NOLA?

Whatever your problem with gays are, you need to get the fuck over it. Seriously.

 

[Inevitable]

The two cultures? Complete hogwash. Plenty of heterosexual people love miley cyrus and are actively involved in that culture or don't care. Plenty of gay people do not strip down at pride parades or even go. There is no such thing as a single "homosexual culture" and "heterosexual culture."

But there are such things as gay pride parades where lewd acts are performed soberly in a parade, in anticipation and hopes that children will be onlooking, constructed to portray the general cultures values and pride, sexually speaking. There are no such parades in public on behalf of the hetero culture.

Isn't that like saying, "Why isn't there a White HIstory Month?"

People can buy Miley Cyrus' albums, watch videos of her and so forth in private. Down a public thoroughfare in broad daylight as a matter of "pride" children cannot escape the spectacle....with all the bright rainbow colors and decorative floats that seemed designed wiht the attraction of a child's eye in mind...

Wouldn't parents have to KNOWINGLY bring their kids to a Pride Parade for them to see the "Lewd" acts?

And how is that any different than what goes on in Madi gras in NOLA?

Whatever your problem with gays are, you need to get the fuck over it. Seriously.

They're not lewd. It's just propaganda

 

[Silhouette]

Wouldn't parents have to KNOWINGLY bring their kids to a Pride Parade for them to see the "Lewd" acts?

And how is that any different than what goes on in Madi gras in NOLA?

Whatever your problem with gays are, you need to get the fuck over it. Seriously.

Yes, parents who bring their kids to gay pride parades knowing what that culture is proud of to display in front of kids and the rest of the general public as they go about their normal day in town are the same as parents bringing their kids to a burlesque show in the red light district. They are legally the same, indistinguishable.

Pride parades are a display of values that participants are 'proud' of meant for onlookers as a display [parade]. Mardis Gras is a well known, yearly boozed bacchanal where most of the participants are inebriated or just out of their mind partying. They wake up the next day anything but "proud". And therein is the cultural difference.

 

[Silhouette]

Nope, stays are by case and are applicable to that case. Decisions set precedence within a jurisdiction. No decision has been issued on whether States can discriminate against homosexuals for no compelling government reason.

Utah Governor applied for one - accepted.

Oregon Governor declined to apply, a citizens group tried - rejected.


SSCM's on hold in Utah, but not in Oregon.



>>>>

Actually I believe the Utah AG applied for a stay. Germane is why he got one. He got one citing Windsor and arguing that to not have one meant suppression of the power of democracy in his state.

You cannot have even an interim decision that allows for Upholding democracy in one state on the same legal question and not in other states on the same legal question. SCOTUS doesn't enjoy that type of arbitrary power to deny a voter appeal to have his or her vote counted.

I can only imagine what Sotomayor or other Justice would say to them upon their appeal: "No, sorry. In California we won't support your right to have your vote counted. Yes, we know that your AG is part of the active suppression of your initiative law and this counts as sedition, but you don't have any legal avenues to protect your right to vote on the same legal questions while other states do have that right".

Basically what you're saying is that a state doesn't have democracy. Once elected to high offices, state officials may perform an effective coup on democracy against the citizens there, turn their state into an oligarchy and the citizens of that state have no legal recourse to stop it. That's kind of how Adolph Hitler and his gang of merry men rose to power in Germany. Once they were in power they simply dissolved all forms and choked off all channels of citizen redress. Next thing you know, Nazi Germany.

The founding fathers were right. Without a true democracy fascism takes root very very quickly. There can be no procedural-loopholes that foster fascism at such a base level: dissolving the power of a citizen's vote! That's constitutional territory. A voter has a right to redress on that issue.

 

[Silhouette]

SCOTUS hold on Utah but not Oregon... why? Which voters in which state have more of a civil right to have their vote count? It's a trick question.

 

[Silhouette]

Here's the gist of the stay appeal from Utah's AG:

A three-judge 10th Circuit panel in a split decision last month found marriage is a fundamental right under the 14th Amendment, and that access to marriage cannot be denied to same-sex couples. The state intends to appeal the ruling in Kitchen v. Herbert to the Supreme Court.

Gene Schaerr, the state's lead attorney in same-sex marriage cases, contends that appeal would give the Supreme Court the opportunity to determine whether the 14th Amendment prohibits a state from defining marriage as between one man and one woman.

"That decision will also likely dictate the outcome in this case: If Utah’s laws are struck down, Utah will recognize plaintiffs’ interim marriages; if Utah’s laws are upheld, Utah will do everything possible to comply with them," he wrote in a 28-page emergency brief...

...The state's petition for a stay is directed to Justice Sonia Sotomayor, who oversees the six states that make up the 10th Circuit. Sotomayor put the brakes on same-sex marriage in Utah last December with an order that appeared to have the support of all nine justices because there were no dissenting votes...

...John Mejia, an ACLU attorney for the couples, said he's unconvinced that the state has met the requirements for the Supreme Court to issue a stay.

Utah hasn't demonstrated that the court would disagree with 10th Circuit decision for the marriages to be recognize, Mejia said.

"We don't think they have shown that at all. We think the 10th Circuit's opinion is very well reasoned and thoughtful," he said.

Mejia also said there's no harm to the state in forcing it to validate the marriages because that's what it should be doing anyway.

"From our perspective, the law is clear and there is certainty that these marriages should be recognized. The uncertainty is created by continuing to try to strip them of recognition," he said.... Utah asks U.S. Supreme Court for stay in gay marriage recognition case | Deseret News

And of course, the Supreme Court of the US granted Utah the stay on gay marriages while on one man/one woman voter-enacted law in that state remains binding until the decision upon final appeal.

So what about the one man/one woman decisions AT LEAST granted in the other five states in the 10th district's jurisdiction? Colorado is implementing gay marriage in violation of law. The 10th's ambiguity and refusal to implement a stay was overruled by SCOTUS issuing a stay for Utah. So its reach is all six states, not JUST Utah.

And for that matter, since this is a question affecting all 50 states ultimately, since that is the challenge, to make this federal, sweeping and binding outside democratic rule [in complete opposition to Windsor's findings I might add], why aren't all 50 states enjoying the same protection of their voted-laws of "one man/one woman"?

 

[Peach]

Anyone who is young and beautiful should experiment with both sexes during our youth and discover the pleasures that males and females both can offer!

Explore your inherant bisexuality with the most beautiful of women and the most handsome of males!

Know what it is like to dominate someone sexually. Know what it is like to submit to someone sexually. Know what it is like to embrace both at once!

Explore all those areas of your body that offer great sexual sensations. Explore those taboos that you know you've always wanted to try.

Young females- explore the physical sensations of double penetration! Explore the mental sensation of strapon fucking a male! Learn to appreciate the beautiful sexual areas of your fellow females! Don't deny the female orgasm, and don't deny the pleasures of oral and anal! Learn to appreciate the most beautiful feminine characteristics among one another that makes us females sexually superior to men! Learn to appreciate the beauty of a healthy, attractive, and sexually endowed female! Look into her eyes, run your fingers through her hair and other places, feel the curves of her sexual areas, the warmth of her body, her smooth skin, and the taste of her lips and other areas...

Young males- explore the sensations of anal intercourse, whether receptive or otherwise. Learn to appreciate a huge cock, and the body of a tall, built, muscular manly man... or a slim, smooth beautiful male.

For all genders, learn the sensations of clean, safe sex in a group setting!

Or explore BDSM, and discover the sensations that await in partaking in those taboos and fetishes you know you always wanted to experience!

Or know what it is like to explore your sexual Nature while under the influence!

If you are spiritual, learn to explore that spirituality sexually with ritual sex, sexual invocation, sexual evocation, or sexual sacrifice!

Give yourself to Babalon!

Learn to read, write, or a learn a trade, follow laws, be a responsible, decent human; forget sex until you are 21

 

[Silhouette]

Anyone who is young and beautiful should experiment with both sexes during our youth and discover the pleasures that males and females both can offer!

Explore your inherant bisexuality with the most beautiful of women and the most handsome of males!

Know what it is like to dominate someone sexually. Know what it is like to submit to someone sexually. Know what it is like to embrace both at once!

Explore all those areas of your body that offer great sexual sensations. Explore those taboos that you know you've always wanted to try.

Young females- explore the physical sensations of double penetration! Explore the mental sensation of strapon fucking a male! Learn to appreciate the beautiful sexual areas of your fellow females! Don't deny the female orgasm, and don't deny the pleasures of oral and anal! Learn to appreciate the most beautiful feminine characteristics among one another that makes us females sexually superior to men! Learn to appreciate the beauty of a healthy, attractive, and sexually endowed female! Look into her eyes, run your fingers through her hair and other places, feel the curves of her sexual areas, the warmth of her body, her smooth skin, and the taste of her lips and other areas...

Young males- explore the sensations of anal intercourse, whether receptive or otherwise. Learn to appreciate a huge cock, and the body of a tall, built, muscular manly man... or a slim, smooth beautiful male.

For all genders, learn the sensations of clean, safe sex in a group setting!

Or explore BDSM, and discover the sensations that await in partaking in those taboos and fetishes you know you always wanted to experience!

Or know what it is like to explore your sexual Nature while under the influence!

If you are spiritual, learn to explore that spirituality sexually with ritual sex, sexual invocation, sexual evocation, or sexual sacrifice!

Give yourself to Babalon!

Learn to read, write, or a learn a trade, follow laws, be a responsible, decent human; forget sex until you are 21

Also:

Learn to stay on topic

 

[Silhouette]

Funny how all the other threads get attention from the gay crowd but this one.

Telling. Very telling. It scares the crap out of them. There is a "no bump" order from "the lavender gang" at USMB on this thread I can guarantee you. PMs are flying like hotcakes off the griddle on that order.

 

[ShackledNation]

Funny how all the other threads get attention from the gay crowd but this one.

Telling. Very telling. It scares the crap out of them. There is a "no bump" order from "the lavender gang" at USMB on this thread I can guarantee you. PMs are flying like hotcakes off the griddle on that order.

You've gotten plenty of attention. The stay SCOTUS granted for the Utah case applies only to the Utah case. Saying otherwise is stupid. Why? Well let's read the actual decision:

"The application for stay presented to Justice Sotomayor and by her referred to the Court is granted. The permanent injunction issued by the United States District Court for the District of Utah, case No. 2:13-cv-217, on December 20, 2013, is stayed pending final disposition of the appeal by the United States Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit. "

SCOTUS specifically said the stay only applies to that single decision by the District Court in Utah. Learn to read.