Do we all agree yet that obamacare was always a single payer trojan horse?

[BoSoxGal]

Do you know how the people in those countries have to pay for their SP system? And not just the top 50% but EVERYBODY.

I think you are confused. The people in those countries spend 9% of their GDP on average on health care, while we spend 18%. Why do you think our industries aren't competitive?

It's you who seems to be confused, I'm talking about how much each family pays for that great SP health care system, which BTW in most of those countries is rising just like ours is. For instance the average Canadian family pays a bit less than $12,000 in taxes for that SP system; most of those other countries pay a good bit of their paycheck too, and I mean everybody pays. I'm waiting for the first democrat to go on TV and tell the American voter they can have a single payer health care system, but that 47% that currently pays no federal income tax is now going to have pony up.

Added: A national single-payer system would require a payroll tax of 11.7 percent, according to the National Institute for Health Care Reform. Try selling that to the American public and see how that goes over.

Yes countries with national healthcare have higher tax rates - but Americans actually pay MORE overall because of all the out of pocket involved in the current system. 50% of personal bankruptcies every year are due to medical costs, and a great many of those folks had insurance!

Need your appendix removed in Canada? It might cost you $100, or even less. Most Americans would pay a couple thousand total in deductibles, co-pays, out of network costs, etc. - maybe more in a really high deductible plan - all OUT OF POCKET. Or even more if not insured! That's a kind of tax, just in a different form. The countries that have these higher taxes and more expansive public programs like national healthcare, very low cost or free higher education, etc. report far higher rates of satisfaction with value provided in exchange for taxation than we Americans do.

I suspect going to the doctor without dreading the costs would sit very well with most Americans. I assert that the millions on Obamacare (myself included, due to self employment) have already begun to experience that, and they aren't willing to go backward. I suspect they'd be easily convinced to go forward to single payer.

I think I'll live to see that. And y'all will just have to deal.

 

[task0778]

Do you know how the people in those countries have to pay for their SP system? And not just the top 50% but EVERYBODY.

I think you are confused. The people in those countries spend 9% of their GDP on average on health care, while we spend 18%. Why do you think our industries aren't competitive?

It's you who seems to be confused, I'm talking about how much each family pays for that great SP health care system, which BTW in most of those countries is rising just like ours is. For instance the average Canadian family pays a bit less than $12,000 in taxes for that SP system; most of those other countries pay a good bit of their paycheck too, and I mean everybody pays. I'm waiting for the first democrat to go on TV and tell the American voter they can have a single payer health care system, but that 47% that currently pays no federal income tax is now going to have pony up.

Added: A national single-payer system would require a payroll tax of 11.7 percent, according to the National Institute for Health Care Reform. Try selling that to the American public and see how that goes over.

Yes countries with national healthcare have higher tax rates - but Americans actually pay MORE overall because of all the out of pocket involved in the current system. 50% of personal bankruptcies every year are due to medical costs, and a great many of those folks had insurance!

Need your appendix removed in Canada? It might cost you $100, or even less. Most Americans would pay a couple thousand total in deductibles, co-pays, out of network costs, etc. - maybe more in a really high deductible plan - all OUT OF POCKET. Or even more if not insured! That's a kind of tax, just in a different form. The countries that have these higher taxes and more expansive public programs like national healthcare, very low cost or free higher education, etc. report far higher rates of satisfaction with value provided in exchange for taxation than we Americans do.

I suspect going to the doctor without dreading the costs would sit very well with most Americans. I assert that the millions on Obamacare (myself included, due to self employment) have already begun to experience that, and they aren't willing to go backward. I suspect they'd be easily convinced to go forward to single payer.

I think I'll live to see that. And y'all will just have to deal.

Everybody will just have to deal, and I mean everybody including the 47% who don't pay any federal income tax. Consider this: a national single-payer system would require a payroll tax of 11.7 percent, according to the National Institute for Health Care Reform. Try selling that to the American public and see how that goes over.

And then consider this:

" For example, Britain has a relatively well-regarded universal healthcare system that every citizen pays for through national income tax. The tax rate for income tax and National Health Insurance in the United Kingdom (England) in 2015-16 for all citizens earning between zero and £31,785, considered basic-rate (flat rate) taxpayers, is a whopping 20 percent of their entire income. It is a full 15 percent more than America’s middle class tax rate and would entail a 20 percent tax hike for 45 percent of Americans who pay nothing now.

If a British citizen earns just one pence over that “basic threshold,” their income tax rate jumps to 40 percent up to £150,000. For income over that number the rate is 45 percent; all to cover the National Health plan administered solely by the government with a form of rationing.

For a comparison, and one reason why many Democrats are reticent to go all-in to support enactment of single-payer in America, in 2015, 45 percent of Americans with earned income paid zero income tax. One cannot comprehend how nearly half of the population living in poverty and barely making it and then saddled with a 20 percent tax bill will embrace being poorer to have basic healthcare when they will be unable to eat or pay rent. "

Why Americans Can't Have Universal Healthcare Like Europeans

 

[Markle]

Been saying it since it happened. The one thing that you cannot do politically is take away something from millions of people that have been GIVEN something. We know obama counted on this. They knew it would be next to impossible to take the insurance away from millions of people who have it. We also know that it is impossible to be sustained. Both things counted on and Grubber admitted this.

EXACTLY correct.

Here's more proof in then-Senator Obama:

"Obama, speaking at SEIU's New Leadership Health Care Forum on March 24, 2007, said, "My commitment is to make sure that we have universal healthcare for all Americans by the end of my first term as President."

Later in the discussion, he elaborated (video embedded below the fold):

I would hope that we could set up a system that allows those who can go through their employer to access a federal system or a state pool of some sort. But I don't think we're going to be able to eliminate employer coverage immediately. There's going to be potentially some transition process.

In 2003, Obama stated at an AFL-CIO Civil, Human and Women's Rights Conference:

I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal healthcare plan...That's what I'd like to see.

Later in the video, viewers are treated to Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) saying on July 27 of this year:

I think that if we get a good public option, it could lead to single payer, and that's the best way to reach single payer.

Yet, the way media are reporting this issue, those who want to stay with private insurance -- which is the vast majority of Americans -- will be able to do so.

Will these new revelations about what Obama really wants make it to a news outlet near you?

Stay tuned.

*****Update: Here's a more complete transcript of Obama's relevant statement at SEIU's New Leadership Health Care Forum on March 24, 2007 --

As I indicated before, I think that we're going to have to have some system where people can buy into a larger pool. Right now their pool typically is the employer, but there are other ways of doing it. I would like to -- I would hope that we could set up a system that allows those who can go through their employer to access a federal system or a state pool of some sort. But I don't think we're going to be able to eliminate employer coverage immediately. There's going to be potentially some transition process. I can envision a decade out or 15 years out or 20 years out where we've got a much more portable system. Employers still have the option of providing coverage, but many people may find that they get better coverage, or at least coverage that gives them more for health care dollars than they spend outside of their employer. And I think we've got to facilitate that and let individuals make that choice to transition out of employer coverage.

Those interested can find a complete transcript of Obama at this event here and a video here.

Obama in 2007 Said He Wanted to Eliminate Private Health Insurance

 

[Markle]

Would you tell us why the ACA cannot be sustained, and when it may collapse?

You REALLY need that explained to you? Really? You only do see and hear far left progressive sources don't you?

 

[Markle]

we should stop struggling against the single payer universal coverage we will inevitably get, and just go for it. We deserve it.

NO ONE "deserves" single payer government health care. There is nothing the government does that cannot be done better, cheaper and more efficiently by private industry.

 

[Markle]

How is Medicare going broke?

Really? What part do you not comprehend?

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

 

[Markle]

Nobody has come up with any method of population control better than what Hitler did.

I hope you're getting help.

 

[Markle]

It's not failing in Europe.

Yes, actually it is failing, you just don't go beyond your far left Progressive/Socialist sources.

Else why do so many people of wealth come here to the US for health care?

 

[Markle]

No one is forced to purchase anything

And if they do not purchase the specific health insurance mandated by the government, what happens to the taxpayer?

 

[Markle]

Now your a phyucking constitutional lawyer? Spare us this BS

That's true, please show us anywhere in the US Constitution where our government has any authority to buy anything from a private corporation.

Chief Justice Roberts had to turn back flips and turn himself inside out to interpret tax as a fee and now what was written in the law.

 

[Markle]

I have never bought insurance on my life, and I am not about to either.

Then you are either independently wealthy or you hate your wife and daughters. Which one?

 

[Markle]

xcept the UK, Germany, Japan, France, Canada, Italy, and every other industrialized democracy... but other than everyplace it's actually been tried, it aint' working at all.

Not true. As for the expense, it is as much or more than ours when you include taxes.

 

[Markle]

I think you are confused. The people in those countries spend 9% of their GDP on average on health care, while we spend 18%. Why do you think our industries aren't competitive?

You have to calculate ALL their taxes and how their income is crushed.

 

[Markle]

50% of personal bankruptcies every year are due to medical costs, and a great many of those folks had insurance!

The study that bogus claim was based on was made by none other than Pocahontas Elizabeth Warren.

Next time, make some sort of effort to find the FACTS!

 

[Skull Pilot]

genius?

Single payer has failed everywhere it's been tried

Except the UK, Germany, Japan, France, Canada, Italy, and every other industrialized democracy... but other than everyplace it's actually been tried, it aint' working at all.

you don't know how to use Google do you?

France does not have single payer
France does not have a true single-payer system. Not-for-profit insurance funds closely supervised by the government pay most of the cost of care, but people also carry supplementary insurance, similar to Medigap plans, that cover deductibles and co-pays.


'Single Payer' Healthcare Has Failed The U.S. Indian Health Service -- So Why Does The Left Keep Advocating It?

http://www.investors.com/politics/c...of-canadian-health-care-admits-its-a-failure/
How Single-Payer Health Care Failed in Progressive Paradise

 

[JoeB131]

It's you who seems to be confused, I'm talking about how much each family pays for that great SP health care system, which BTW in most of those countries is rising just like ours is. For instance the average Canadian family pays a bit less than $12,000 in taxes for that SP system; most of those other countries pay a good bit of their paycheck too, and I mean everybody pays. I'm waiting for the first democrat to go on TV and tell the American voter they can have a single payer health care system, but that 47% that currently pays no federal income tax is now going to have pony up.

Added: A national single-payer system would require a payroll tax of 11.7 percent, according to the National Institute for Health Care Reform. Try selling that to the American public and see how that goes over.

Here's the thing. If you give every American family the amount of money that their employers currently spend as insurance as pay, that would more than make up that 11.7%.

Oh, and why are you repeating Mitt Romney's lie that 47% of us don't pay taxes. That was horseshit when it fell out of his lying Mormon mouth then, which is why everyone mocked him for it?

 

[JoeB131]

you don't know how to use Google do you?

France does not have single payer

they have universal coverage. We don't.

They also have paid family and medical leave and a government employee stops by and helps new mothers for the first few months. Somehow, I don't think you want us to be more like the French, and you'll sputter out some nonsense about "Freedom" and "Founding Fathers" if anyone suggested we did.

 

[Skull Pilot]

you don't know how to use Google do you?

France does not have single payer

they have universal coverage. We don't.

They also have paid family and medical leave and a government employee stops by and helps new mothers for the first few months. Somehow, I don't think you want us to be more like the French, and you'll sputter out some nonsense about "Freedom" and "Founding Fathers" if anyone suggested we did.

it is NOT single payer

 

[JoeB131]

it is NOT single payer

Again, I'll take the French or German system any day of the week.

Don't much care what you call it, as long as everyone is covered.

 

[Skull Pilot]

it is NOT single payer

Again, I'll take the French or German system any day of the week.

Don't much care what you call it, as long as everyone is covered.

you just can't admit you're wrong about France having single payer can you?