Do Works Really Count?

[Meriweather]

The point was the better person who doesn't worship gods is often deemed as living a less worthy life than the person who does not live as good a life as the nonbeliever and is often deemed to have lived a better life because he worships a god.

A better life in whose eyes? Someone who struggles with sin turns to God for help and struggles on. Another who does not have these struggles sails through life without help, patting himself on the back proud of his own power.

(I am setting aside hypocrites for this scenario. True hypocrites are found everywhere, but are much more rare than those who state the ideal they are striving to reach, yet continually fail. They keep trying. These are not hypocrites, merely someone who continues to pursue a lofty goal despite failures.)

 

[Road Runner]

I guess we need to define what is meant by "works" first.

More like actions then. How you think, speak, and act.

 

[Blues Man]

The point was the better person who doesn't worship gods is often deemed as living a less worthy life than the person who does not live as good a life as the nonbeliever and is often deemed to have lived a better life because he worships a god.

A better life in whose eyes? Someone who struggles with sin turns to God for help and struggles on. Another who does not have these struggles sails through life without help, patting himself on the back proud of his own power.

(I am setting aside hypocrites for this scenario. True hypocrites are found everywhere, but are much more rare than those who state the ideal they are striving to reach, yet continually fail. They keep trying. These are not hypocrites, merely someone who continues to pursue a lofty goal despite failures.)

That's quite an assumption.

A humble man does not "pat himself on the back".

There is this assumption in at least the Abrahamic religions I have experience with that people who believe in a particular god are somehow living a life that is a cut above those who don't share their religion.

 

[Meriweather]

There is this assumption in at least the Abrahamic religions I have experience with that people who believe in a particular god are somehow living a life that is a cut above those who don't share their religion.

And those who have no belief in God never put themselves as a cut above those who must rely on God?

 

[Blues Man]

There is this assumption in at least the Abrahamic religions I have experience with that people who believe in a particular god are somehow living a life that is a cut above those who don't share their religion.

And those who have no belief in God never put themselves as a cut above those who must rely on God?

I don't.

I can't speak for anyone else.

 

[Meriweather]

I can't speak for anyone else.

Wasn't it speaking for everyone else with the remark:

There is this assumption in at least the Abrahamic religions I have experience with that people who believe in a particular god are somehow living a life that is a cut above those who don't share their religion.

 

[Blues Man]

I can't speak for anyone else.

Wasn't it speaking for everyone else with the remark:

There is this assumption in at least the Abrahamic religions I have experience with that people who believe in a particular god are somehow living a life that is a cut above those who don't share their religion.

You ignore the part where i said that "I have experience with".

 

[Meriweather]

You ignore the part where i said that "I have experience with".

I did not. Our conversation began with you describing a Christian who did wrong throughout his life, and an atheist who lived a good life. I noted the disparity in the comparison--comparing a good atheist with, at best, a mediocre Christian. The better comparison would have been a good atheist and a good Christian.

So you upped the ante saying your experience with those of Abrahamic faiths is a sense that they feel they are a cut above. My remark was about a good Christian and a good atheist, and your response expanded to bring in people of all Abrahamic faiths. Can't you even imagine a good Christian, even if you haven't had an experience with someone of faith who didn't consider him/herself a cut above you?

 

[Blues Man]

You ignore the part where i said that "I have experience with".

I did not. Our conversation began with you describing a Christian who did wrong throughout his life, and an atheist who lived a good life. I noted the disparity in the comparison--comparing a good atheist with, at best, a mediocre Christian. The better comparison would have been a good atheist and a good Christian.

So you upped the ante saying your experience with those of Abrahamic faiths is a sense that they feel they are a cut above. My remark was about a good Christian and a good atheist, and your response expanded to bring in people of all Abrahamic faiths. Can't you even imagine a good Christian, even if you haven't had an experience with someone of faith who didn't consider him/herself a cut above you?

I never mentioned the religion of the person in my example. And I never said one was an atheist.

I'm not an atheist as there is insufficient proof as to whether gods exist or not in my opinion.

I do not worship any gods and even if there was irrefutable proof that gods exist published in tomorrow's paper I still wouldn't worship any gods.

And I don't have any experience with any religions but the Abrahamic religions but I do have more than a casual experience with all 3.

 

[Meriweather]

I never mentioned the religion of the person in my example. And I never said one was an atheist.

Fine. Let's try answering my question. A good person who believes in God. A good person who is an atheist. Who is often deemed of living the better life? By whom? And why?

 

[Blues Man]

I never mentioned the religion of the person in my example. And I never said one was an atheist.

Fine. Let's try answering my question. A good person who believes in God. A good person who is an atheist. Who is often deemed of living the better life? By whom? And why?

I don't think one is better than the other all things being equal.

I don't see how worshiping a god gives anyone an additional plus.

Which is why I always have to wonder why so many people think it is a plus

 

[Meriweather]

I don't think one is better than the other all things being equal.

I don't see how worshiping a god gives anyone an additional plus.

Which is why I always have to wonder why so many people think it is a plus

1. I don't think one is better than the other all things being equal.
2. Connecting with, and or experiencing God, does give added depth and meaning to my individual life.
3. Think of one of the people in this life you love/have loved. Is/was knowing and loving that person (being) a plus in your life?

I understand not wanting God in one's life--or not caring whether or not God is in one's life or not. But I can't imagine being reduced to wondering why God is a plus in someone's life.

It would be like me (who hardly ever needs a doctor) wondering why anyone else bothers with doctors. I don't need a doctor and isn't that wonderful. You don't need God and isn't that wonderful. However, I think we are both capable of figuring out the positives of having either being available to others.

 

[Blues Man]

I don't think one is better than the other all things being equal.

I don't see how worshiping a god gives anyone an additional plus.

Which is why I always have to wonder why so many people think it is a plus

1. I don't think one is better than the other all things being equal.
2. Connecting with, and or experiencing God, does give added depth and meaning to my individual life.
3. Think of one of the people in this life you love/have loved. Is/was knowing and loving that person (being) a plus in your life?

I understand not wanting God in one's life--or not caring whether or not God is in one's life or not. But I can't imagine being reduced to wondering why God is a plus in someone's life.

It would be like me (who hardly ever needs a doctor) wondering why anyone else bothers with doctors. I don't need a doctor and isn't that wonderful. You don't need God and isn't that wonderful. However, I think we are both capable of figuring out the positives of having either being available to others.

Comparing a god to a doctor is a stretch. Although some doctors do have a god complex.