Do You Believe In God?

[Toro]

Yes.

But I reject the strident, narrow-minded, sectarian ideologues who think that they, and they alone, have all the answers.

God would be ashamed of the extraordinarily arrogance these people.

 

[Vandalshandle]

I think that God is pretty stuck up. He has never spoken a word to me.

 

[RodISHI]

I believe in God and I don't question my belief.

I base my belief on one simple passage in the bible.

Ecclesiastes 12:13 King James Version (KJV)
13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Hey Hoss...
There's an axe murderer standing behind you.

Hey, you just read it here. You gonna take my word for it, or you gonna turn around and look?

Talking about mankinds sole duty.

Oh you're right, I forgot to accentuate that avoiding that axe murderer is your "sole duty".
Fear him too.

I didn't spell that out but there you go, you have your orders.


It baffles me why anyone would read a sentence that commands them to "fear" somebody -- and then actually do so. I just can't wrap the head around that. My reaction would be the exact opposite.

Anyway, there goes the old point made earlier that he "loves" us....

The ''fear'' simply means to ''fear the wrath'' of God if you break the Commandments. That doesn't mean you have to live groveling in fear.

I dunno Hoss, that's not what it says. It says "Fear God". As an imperative sentence. "God" is a direct object, not indirect. So as I read it yeah it does mean groveling.

But either way, it still quashes the "He loves us" line.

Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom (i.e. knowledge and understanding that which is righteous- holy; Proverbs 1:7 & 9:10 along with Psalms 111:10 pretty well explains what fear of the Lord is describing).

Any Common carnal knowledge of the understanding as fear to mean groveling is mere ignorance on the part of the reader. God is not an object as an ultimate Spirit of life (God) is not limited to a certain object.

 

[Pogo]

Spin all you like but the simple imperative sentence "Fear God" is very straightforward. Verb; direct object. No reference to extraneous qualifiers. Don't sit here and preach to me about ignorance; I need English lessons from no one.

 

[Hossfly]

Spin all you like but the simple imperative sentence "Fear God" is very straightforward. Verb; direct object. No reference to extraneous qualifiers. Don't sit here and preach to me about ignorance; I need English lessons from no one.

Pogo, here are some English translations in other versions of the Bible.

AMP
All has been heard; the end of the matter is: Fear God [revere and worship Him, knowing that He is] and keep His commandments, for this is the whole of man [the full, original purpose of his creation, the object of God’s providence, the root of character, the foundation of all happiness, the adjustment to all inharmonious circumstances and conditions under the sun] and the whole [duty] for every man.

CEB
So this is the end of the matter; all has been heard. Worship God and keep God’s commandments because this is what everyone must do.

CEV
Everything you were taught can be put into a few words: Respect and obey God! This is what life is all about.

ERV
Now, what should we learn from everything that is written in this book? The most important thing a person can do is to respect God and obey his commands, because he knows about everything people do—even the secret things. He knows about all the good and all the bad, and he will judge people for everything they do.

EXB
Now, the end of the matter; everything has been heard: ·Honor [Fear] God [Prov. 1:7] and obey his commands, because this is ·all people must do [L the whole duty of humanity].

etc.,etc.

 

[RodISHI]

Spin all you like but the simple imperative sentence "Fear God" is very straightforward. Verb; direct object. No reference to extraneous qualifiers. Don't sit here and preach to me about ignorance; I need English lessons from no one.

You are taking a Biblical phrase and applying your own concept to it. Correcting you because of your ignorance on what that phrase is, is not correcting your English. It is in fact correcting for your Biblical illiteracy.

 

[Pogo]

Spin all you like but the simple imperative sentence "Fear God" is very straightforward. Verb; direct object. No reference to extraneous qualifiers. Don't sit here and preach to me about ignorance; I need English lessons from no one.

You are taking a Biblical phrase and applying your own concept to it. Correcting you because of your ignorance on what that phrase is, is not correcting your English. It is in fact correcting for your Biblical illiteracy.

Oh bullshit. English is English is English. You're trying to tell me the words on the page don't mean what they say because you find them inconvenient?

Thanks for playin'. Dismissed.

 

[Hossfly]

Spin all you like but the simple imperative sentence "Fear God" is very straightforward. Verb; direct object. No reference to extraneous qualifiers. Don't sit here and preach to me about ignorance; I need English lessons from no one.

You are taking a Biblical phrase and applying your own concept to it. Correcting you because of your ignorance on what that phrase is, is not correcting your English. It is in fact correcting for your Biblical illiteracy.

Oh bullshit. English is English is English. You're trying to tell me the words on the page don't mean what they say because you find them inconvenient?

Thanks for playin'. Dismissed.

Translate that phrase back into the original Greek and see what the writers meant.

 

[BreezeWood]

Spin all you like but the simple imperative sentence "Fear God" is very straightforward. Verb; direct object. No reference to extraneous qualifiers. Don't sit here and preach to me about ignorance; I need English lessons from no one.

Pogo, here are some English translations in other versions of the Bible.

AMP
All has been heard; the end of the matter is: Fear God [revere and worship Him, knowing that He is] and keep His commandments, for this is the whole of man [the full, original purpose of his creation, the object of God’s providence, the root of character, the foundation of all happiness, the adjustment to all inharmonious circumstances and conditions under the sun] and the whole [duty] for every man.

CEB
So this is the end of the matter; all has been heard. Worship God and keep God’s commandments because this is what everyone must do.

CEV
Everything you were taught can be put into a few words: Respect and obey God! This is what life is all about.

ERV
Now, what should we learn from everything that is written in this book? The most important thing a person can do is to respect God and obey his commands, because he knows about everything people do—even the secret things. He knows about all the good and all the bad, and he will judge people for everything they do.

EXB
Now, the end of the matter; everything has been heard: ·Honor [Fear] God [Prov. 1:7] and obey his commands, because this is ·all people must do [L the whole duty of humanity].

etc.,etc.

.

... and keep His commandments,

is that a reference to the "Ten Commandments of Moses" ?

.

 

[Two Thumbs]

I am a Christian.
I believe Jesus is God in human form.
I believe God is 3 person (Father, Son, Holy Spirit)

What do YOU believe?

the idea that was are some cosmic accident is absurd.

The main idea of how we got here is (basically}= rock + water + really high tides + lightning = life

That's absurd, the reasoning about how we left the water, why we left the water and how we became people is absurd.

but the claim that any religion is the right religion is just as absurd.

The main religions aren't even close to having been the first religions. And we know the bible has been heavily edited through the ages.

 

[Hossfly]

Spin all you like but the simple imperative sentence "Fear God" is very straightforward. Verb; direct object. No reference to extraneous qualifiers. Don't sit here and preach to me about ignorance; I need English lessons from no one.

Pogo, here are some English translations in other versions of the Bible.

AMP
All has been heard; the end of the matter is: Fear God [revere and worship Him, knowing that He is] and keep His commandments, for this is the whole of man [the full, original purpose of his creation, the object of God’s providence, the root of character, the foundation of all happiness, the adjustment to all inharmonious circumstances and conditions under the sun] and the whole [duty] for every man.

CEB
So this is the end of the matter; all has been heard. Worship God and keep God’s commandments because this is what everyone must do.

CEV
Everything you were taught can be put into a few words: Respect and obey God! This is what life is all about.

ERV
Now, what should we learn from everything that is written in this book? The most important thing a person can do is to respect God and obey his commands, because he knows about everything people do—even the secret things. He knows about all the good and all the bad, and he will judge people for everything they do.

EXB
Now, the end of the matter; everything has been heard: ·Honor [Fear] God [Prov. 1:7] and obey his commands, because this is ·all people must do [L the whole duty of humanity].

etc.,etc.

.

... and keep His commandments,

is that a reference to the "Ten Commandments of Moses" ?

.

Aye, Captain.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Spin all you like but the simple imperative sentence "Fear God" is very straightforward. Verb; direct object. No reference to extraneous qualifiers. Don't sit here and preach to me about ignorance; I need English lessons from no one.

You are taking a Biblical phrase and applying your own concept to it. Correcting you because of your ignorance on what that phrase is, is not correcting your English. It is in fact correcting for your Biblical illiteracy.

Oh bullshit. English is English is English. You're trying to tell me the words on the page don't mean what they say because you find them inconvenient?

Thanks for playin'. Dismissed.

Translate that phrase back into the original Greek and see what the writers meant.

See, there's what I mean.

someone claiming the bible was written in greek, when it was translated to greek.

religion is absurd, none of you can be right, it's impossible.

 

[emilynghiem]

I have met two people who teach the process as being shown everything in advance that we are going to experience before we are born, agreeing first, then erasing all that so we live it blind?

Great post Emily. I just copied this portion to chat on. If someone is shown something in the spirit prior to being born into this world it is very likely they could have been shown what their life would be in the world apart from living strictly as a spiritual being. If one is shown something in the spiritual realm it is not always an easy task to transfer that into the carnal flesh realm. For some I have notice it is easy to add one's own desires or belief system into that which has been seen in the spirit. Just a thought to ponder.

I thought my friends were trying to rationalize some way to say we CHOSE this life.
They were saying before birth, God shows each soul everything they go through and why.
And the soul accepts before being born. But then the vision and knowledge is 'wiped clean'
so it doesn't interfere with going through the process in life in physical reality.

I don't think it is necessary to go to this extent to "tell people on some level you chose this
life but don't remember agreeing to it"
That to me is like coercion or brainwashing.
I don't think it is necessary to even go there.

I think it is enough to say we know what we need to in order to grow in life.
The more open we are, the more unconditional, the more information we can handle in advance.
if we are going to ABUSE that information or knowledge, then it is blocked from our access.

For some reason, some people "need to see it this way"
I don't think we even need to know everything that happens in life and why
and certainly don't need to "know in advance" in order to have faith things happen for a reason
and will turn out good in the end, where the good outweighs the bad.

it seems to me that adding the "condition" that we "knew in advance and agreed" is
NOT UNconditional acceptance. It is adding some condition, and then being at peace, feeling that condition was met.

I believe that TRUE unconditional acceptance
means NOT knowing in advance, but trusting that the arc of life curves toward justice
so all things work out over time. Anything bad is going to be resolved, and the debts
paid forward to correct things in the future when we get to that point.

We don't have to see all the details to agree in advance before we are born.

Even when I am trying to show people "examples" of what is possible in the future,
I don't know the future in detail. I can point to rough examples to give an idea of
sustainable solutions that "hypothetically" could work; and trust that whatever will
happen is going to come out different from the example I offer anyway.

I can show examples or counterexamples of what is "possible"
but that's not the same as a Condition, that someone AGREES to change
their mind on the Condition that a certain solution happens. It's not like that.
Forgiveness and acceptance works by being unconditional -- regardless how, when or if
a problem gets solved in the future, if someone agrees to accept and let go that allows
corrections and healing to enter the picture. But if someone Conditions their forgiveness
on mandated terms, that isn't pure forgiveness, and can obstruct the process by attaching
terms that must be met before the emotions are let go. The closing of the mind by adding
restrictive conditions can limit or obstruct the process.

I think this is close to what you and Pogo said about people "adding their own" spin on things.
There is nothing wrong with explaining things in terms we can grasp.
But if it is "adding a man made condition" then that is what creates religious bias
that some people may follow but other people don't have, and is not "universal truth."
So this can become divisive when someone else like me says "I don't relate"
to that description of the process.

Frankly I am baffled by the idea of being shown everything and agreeing before birth.

From what I understand, people who were shown things as a spiritual vision
KEPT that memory so it would help them work through their process.

I understand that and have gone through spiritual experiences that are more like THAT.
Where the point is to REMEMBER not forget!

I also found my experiences may be different from others in terms of free will.
Making/discovering the commitment to enforce Constitutional laws and protections for all people
limits choices to what is Constitutionally fair, consistent and inclusive of all people.

So I am not going to have the freedom, for example, to go around violating other people's rights
when I made the commitment to enforce the same standards for people as for govt.

There is nothing "illegal" about accusing people of lying or being a jerk,
but to me, it is against the "spirit" or principle of "due process" to "convict condemn and punish someone"
without first proving what they did, and letting them answer and defend themselves to address the conflicts
objections or grievances.

Other people who don't make this commitment are more free to go around posting whatever
they want to say to slam someone else.

I believe I have more free speech in terms of a receptive audience where my point is better received
by NOT violating people's right of defense. So I think it is worth it to exercise more restraint,
and make the same points but without attaching unnecessary value judgments on people.

On one level, I may not have the same level of free will as other people who didn't make such a commitment.
But if my commitment allows me more freedom and peace to work with diverse people, without fear or threat of conflicts obstructing our ability to work together, then it actually allows for more freedom in a sense.

In the meantime, it seems to make a difference in how I perceive relations and the authority of law
versus how other people see it, if I believe I SHARE equal responsibility for enforcing laws as govt has.

Maybe my path is just not like these other people who feel like they were shown their lives in advance
but then the memory was wiped clear. At the point in life where I felt I was first aware of how much
had to change to get from where things came from in the past to where they were going in the future,
the point of my process was to reconcile with that knowledge while fully aware, knowing it is going to change
by the time to get to each stage and step. My friends who told me this idea of seeing things in advance
before being born could NOT convince me that I would have EVER agreed to go through things like this
had I seen it.

From my experience, I felt without any doubt that the good would outweigh the bad, even without seeing it.
The knowledge of each and every step is so detailed and interconnected with everyone else's paths in life,
there is NO way any soul can be shown all that "as a condition" to agree to it in advance.

Just find this baffling. I can barely deal with knowledge one step at a time, there is no way to see all things over all time. Nobody has the capacity to see all that. I think we can know and accept it unconsciously on a spiritual level, but this idea of showing all the events, how is that even necessary if the point is to accept without condition, knowing we don't know it all and will always be limited to the parts we need to know to get by.

If you can explain this better, RodISHI I'd appreciate it
My friends were shocked that "i didn't know I had chosen and accepted all this in advance"
I was more shocked that they thought we had free will to choose (by the process of being shown all things in advance before being born), when we will never know all things
as needed to be fully informed enough to have truly free choice.

Whatever point of the process they were talking about, and again I've run into this before
with other highminded well intended people teaching it this way,
I must have missed that bus or slept through that PowerPoint
because there is NO WAY I would have agreed to all this mess had I been given a choice.
I would still be backstage arguing with God and refusing to go on and play whatever part.

You'd have better luck convincing a dog to get back in the cage and go to the vet for more pain and suffering.
Or convincing that clerk in Kentucky to get off the soap box and get back to work issuing licenses.

Maybe everyone else got to see a preview trailer before agreeing to the movie.
Maybe I was sliding down in my seat, covering my eyes and just missed that part where I get warned in advance!

 

[Hossfly]

Spin all you like but the simple imperative sentence "Fear God" is very straightforward. Verb; direct object. No reference to extraneous qualifiers. Don't sit here and preach to me about ignorance; I need English lessons from no one.

You are taking a Biblical phrase and applying your own concept to it. Correcting you because of your ignorance on what that phrase is, is not correcting your English. It is in fact correcting for your Biblical illiteracy.

Oh bullshit. English is English is English. You're trying to tell me the words on the page don't mean what they say because you find them inconvenient?

Thanks for playin'. Dismissed.

Translate that phrase back into the original Greek and see what the writers meant.

See, there's what I mean.

someone claiming the bible was written in greek, when it was translated to greek.

religion is absurd, none of you can be right, it's impossible.

Translated to Greek from English?
Or from Hebrew or Aramaic to Greek to English. You and Pogo are nit picking.

 

[BreezeWood]

Spin all you like but the simple imperative sentence "Fear God" is very straightforward. Verb; direct object. No reference to extraneous qualifiers. Don't sit here and preach to me about ignorance; I need English lessons from no one.

Pogo, here are some English translations in other versions of the Bible.

AMP
All has been heard; the end of the matter is: Fear God [revere and worship Him, knowing that He is] and keep His commandments, for this is the whole of man [the full, original purpose of his creation, the object of God’s providence, the root of character, the foundation of all happiness, the adjustment to all inharmonious circumstances and conditions under the sun] and the whole [duty] for every man.

CEB
So this is the end of the matter; all has been heard. Worship God and keep God’s commandments because this is what everyone must do.

CEV
Everything you were taught can be put into a few words: Respect and obey God! This is what life is all about.

ERV
Now, what should we learn from everything that is written in this book? The most important thing a person can do is to respect God and obey his commands, because he knows about everything people do—even the secret things. He knows about all the good and all the bad, and he will judge people for everything they do.

EXB
Now, the end of the matter; everything has been heard: ·Honor [Fear] God [Prov. 1:7] and obey his commands, because this is ·all people must do [L the whole duty of humanity].

etc.,etc.

.

... and keep His commandments,

is that a reference to the "Ten Commandments of Moses" ?

.

Aye, Captain.

.

Aye, Captain.

I'm confused, what are the commandments from the Almighty a person is to follow ... only one, the religion referenced by the parable of Noah, the salvation for all of mankind or none, comes to mind.

.

 

[JohnA]

It's pretty basic -- nothing exists where there's no evidence of it. This computer does not exist, except I can feel my fingers on the keyboard and see the words pop up; therefore this computer DOES exist.

According to your rules, precepts and experiences.
And you have the free will to choose to go by that.
I can tell you, God is VERY real for those who experience him.
How can you know that he doesn't provide "real" proof when you don't have a relationship with Him?
You are just not being provided the proof YOU want on YOUR terms.

 

[Pogo]

Spin all you like but the simple imperative sentence "Fear God" is very straightforward. Verb; direct object. No reference to extraneous qualifiers. Don't sit here and preach to me about ignorance; I need English lessons from no one.

You are taking a Biblical phrase and applying your own concept to it. Correcting you because of your ignorance on what that phrase is, is not correcting your English. It is in fact correcting for your Biblical illiteracy.

Oh bullshit. English is English is English. You're trying to tell me the words on the page don't mean what they say because you find them inconvenient?

Thanks for playin'. Dismissed.

Translate that phrase back into the original Greek and see what the writers meant.

See, there's what I mean.

someone claiming the bible was written in greek, when it was translated to greek.

religion is absurd, none of you can be right, it's impossible.

Translated to Greek from English?
Or from Hebrew or Aramaic to Greek to English. You and Pogo are nit picking.

Hoss, you may have a point. No Greek was not the original but crucial meaning can be lost in a mistranslation -- I'm thinking specifically here of almah and bethulah which may have contributed to the whole "virgin birth" fiasco.

But the poster above was trying to tell me an English version doesn't mean what its own words say -- regardless what the original said. I don't have access to the original and I doubt anyone here does either. So as far as a mismatch between the original and the English, we have no evidence. But clearly the English phrase means what the English phrase means.

Now if the bible editors/translators blew it, that would be on them, but the undertook that with a mission, and the end result was apparently where they wanted that mission to go, so that's what we got.

 

[dblack]

Gods are as real as any of us.

 

[Pogo]

The main religions aren't even close to having been the first religions. And we know the bible has been heavily edited through the ages.

Hear hear, true fact.

And if we have any interest at all in the area we owe it to ourselves to go at least investigate some of those alternatives, rather than just blindly accepting what we've been handed at birth.

 

[emilynghiem]

And The Word was God.

What if the voice of God that you think is in your head is just you having a conversation with yourself?

If we didn't think in words, would 'God' be an issue?

Dear AVG-JOE
that wouldn't explain how each person's "conversation with themselves"
keep following the same trinity pattern.

all religions and systems of law/philosophy about human relations
keep mirroring the same "trinity" of
spiritual/psychological/physical
mind/body/spirit
individual/relationship/collective whole

You can say that it's because people project ourselves onto everything we see and describe.

But AVG-JOE we didn't INVENT the laws of gravity, of human nature, etc. etc.

So the fact that these inherent principles in our human nature
INSPIRE us to express these laws "using our own words"
still come out in the same universal patterns found in every cultural language for the laws.

The words may come from us culturally,
but the CONCEPTS behind the words didn't.

We didn't make up the rules of how our own human nature operates,
in connection with all the other workings in the world.

our man made symbols and religions are used to REFLECT the laws already out there,
but the laws exist in the world by their own design, and no, man did not make those up.