Do You Believe In God?

[Taz]

I don't, but my wife is a devout Catholic. In fact I married her because of her religious faith.

Ya, I hear that the really devout broads are really wild in the sack.

 

[Bonzi]

I don't, but my wife is a devout Catholic. In fact I married her because of her religious faith.

Ya, I hear that the really devout broads are really wild in the sack.

You can bet that she is. Muhammed is very sexual.. he would not stand for anything less...

 

[Pogo]

I don't, but my wife is a devout Catholic. In fact I married her because of her religious faith.

Ya, I hear that the really devout broads are really wild in the sack.

We could kinda tell that back in Catholic grade school. After being forced into all the regimentation of cookie-cutter uniforms, they were delighted to get out of them.

 

[Pogo]

I find God/Life to be very forgiving and full of grace.
But with that openness comes the understanding that people's pride becomes their own downfall.

You don't have to "wish ill" on people, they will fall flat on their behinds if they don't check themselves.
You can be as loving and accepting as can be, and they will still hang themselves on their own rope.

I've always wondered which god. Most of the people in the world believe in a god:

It's a nice thought.

When I was a tot I had some children's book that told a fable about "Indians". Probably entirely made up but it doesn't matter. It said that "Indian" (which one they didn't say) mythology teaches that when you die the question put before you is "how may people were made happier because you were born?"

That made a lot of sense to me and I've always tried to live by it.

Doesn't matter who comes up with the wisdom. It's more important what the wisdom is.

You have cameras in my house? I knew it.

Long as you're watching -- does this lack of clothes make me look fat?

Please I'm eating lunch, I'd like to finish...

So that would be a yes.

 

[Bonzi]

I've always wondered which god. Most of the people in the world believe in a god:

It's a nice thought.

When I was a tot I had some children's book that told a fable about "Indians". Probably entirely made up but it doesn't matter. It said that "Indian" (which one they didn't say) mythology teaches that when you die the question put before you is "how may people were made happier because you were born?"

That made a lot of sense to me and I've always tried to live by it.

Doesn't matter who comes up with the wisdom. It's more important what the wisdom is.

You have cameras in my house? I knew it.

Long as you're watching -- does this lack of clothes make me look fat?

Please I'm eating lunch, I'd like to finish...

So that would be a yes.

I'm a fantasy girl. To me you look like someone I'd lust after (if I weren't married....)

 

[Pogo]

It's a nice thought.

When I was a tot I had some children's book that told a fable about "Indians". Probably entirely made up but it doesn't matter. It said that "Indian" (which one they didn't say) mythology teaches that when you die the question put before you is "how may people were made happier because you were born?"

That made a lot of sense to me and I've always tried to live by it.

Doesn't matter who comes up with the wisdom. It's more important what the wisdom is.

You have cameras in my house? I knew it.

Long as you're watching -- does this lack of clothes make me look fat?

Please I'm eating lunch, I'd like to finish...

So that would be a yes.

I'm a fantasy girl. To me you look like someone I'd lust after (if I weren't married....)

Hey, not bad for a 150-year-old baseball diamond.

 

[September]

I am a Christian.
I believe Jesus is God in human form.
I believe God is 3 person (Father, Son, Holy Spirit)

What do YOU believe?

-I am a Sumero-Abrahamic Mesopagan with heavy ties to Thelema, Christianity, O9A, Luciferianism, the Hermetic order of the Golden Dawn, and other movements...

-I "believe" that what Christians call "God", what Muslims call "Allah", what many others call "YHWH", is the most powerful extraterrestrial force ever experienced by Man... the highest and greatest among many gods and goddesses who have reached out to Man...

-I worship only YHWH but draw a great deal of wisdom and inspiration from Ashtoreth, Lilith, Michael and Lucifer...​

 

[Bonzi]

I am a Christian.
I believe Jesus is God in human form.
I believe God is 3 person (Father, Son, Holy Spirit)

What do YOU believe?

-I am a Sumero-Abrahamic Mesopagan with heavy ties to Thelema, Christianity, O9A, Luciferianism, the Hermetic order of the Golden Dawn, and other movements...

-I "believe" that what Christians call "God", what Muslims call "Allah", what many others call "YHWH", is the most powerful extraterrestrial force ever experienced by Man... the highest and greatest among many gods and goddesses who have reached out to Man...

-I worship only YHWH but draw wisdom and inspiration from Ashtoreth, Lilith, Michael and Lucifer...​

well... that's a 1st......

 

[Hossfly]

You are taking a Biblical phrase and applying your own concept to it. Correcting you because of your ignorance on what that phrase is, is not correcting your English. It is in fact correcting for your Biblical illiteracy.

Oh bullshit. English is English is English. You're trying to tell me the words on the page don't mean what they say because you find them inconvenient?

Thanks for playin'. Dismissed.

Translate that phrase back into the original Greek and see what the writers meant.

See, there's what I mean.

someone claiming the bible was written in greek, when it was translated to greek.

religion is absurd, none of you can be right, it's impossible.

Translated to Greek from English?
Or from Hebrew or Aramaic to Greek to English. You and Pogo are nit picking.

hebrew to arab to lating to greek to latin to english

then you throw in the various leaders that threw stuff our or changed things to suit themselves.

Do you have any conception about anything I've said in this thread? We're on different trains of thought here and I can understand your confusion.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Oh bullshit. English is English is English. You're trying to tell me the words on the page don't mean what they say because you find them inconvenient?

Thanks for playin'. Dismissed.

Translate that phrase back into the original Greek and see what the writers meant.

See, there's what I mean.

someone claiming the bible was written in greek, when it was translated to greek.

religion is absurd, none of you can be right, it's impossible.

Translated to Greek from English?
Or from Hebrew or Aramaic to Greek to English. You and Pogo are nit picking.

hebrew to arab to lating to greek to latin to english

then you throw in the various leaders that threw stuff our or changed things to suit themselves.

Do you have any conception about anything I've said in this thread? We're on different trains of thought here and I can understand your confusion.

I didn't read the whole thread, I read what you posted and replied to that.

There is no original greek as jesus and profits didn't speak it

 

[playtime]

I am a Christian. I believe in God... A God.... a higher being. I believe Jesus is the son of God. I believe in Heaven & I believe in Angels. I was baptized Roman Catholic but personally think the church is a political entity, & self serving. I respect other religions' belief systems whether I agree with them or not & I don't think there is only one path to heaven. And some of the most 'soulful', loving, giving people I know are atheists.

 

[playtime]

I believe in God..

The church is NOT God...

That's interesting you say that....
Our Pastor quotes a hierarchy of "priorities" - God, Family, Church, Work.
I think many blur lines between God and Church.... or maybe, like you implied, think they are 1 in the same....

As a former Marine I have a different hierarchy: Semper Fidelis (always faithful) to God, Corps and Country. Marines also live by the code Death Before Dishonor which applies to all things. The Old Testament lists only Ten Commandments. Marines have a hell of a lot more.

My husband is a Marine. ( once a Marine, ALWAYS a Marine) oo-rah! He served 1977-1981.

 

[playtime]

Hey Hoss...
There's an axe murderer standing behind you.

Hey, you just read it here. You gonna take my word for it, or you gonna turn around and look?

Talking about mankinds sole duty.

Oh you're right, I forgot to accentuate that avoiding that axe murderer is your "sole duty".
Fear him too.

I didn't spell that out but there you go, you have your orders.


It baffles me why anyone would read a sentence that commands them to "fear" somebody -- and then actually do so. I just can't wrap the head around that. My reaction would be the exact opposite.

Anyway, there goes the old point made earlier that he "loves" us....

The ''fear'' simply means to ''fear the wrath'' of God if you break the Commandments. That doesn't mean you have to live groveling in fear.

I dunno Hoss, that's not what it says. It says "Fear God". As an imperative sentence. "God" is a direct object, not indirect. So as I read it yeah it does mean groveling.

But either way, it still quashes the "He loves us" line.

Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom (i.e. knowledge and understanding that which is righteous- holy; Proverbs 1:7 & 9:10 along with Psalms 111:10 pretty well explains what fear of the Lord is describing).

Any Common carnal knowledge of the understanding as fear to mean groveling is mere ignorance on the part of the reader. God is not an object as an ultimate Spirit of life (God) is not limited to a certain object.

IMO, a loving God does not need to be feared.

 

[playtime]

Hey! Here's a curveball.... I also believe that we aren't the only ones in the universe(s)

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear Pogo I understand Fear means to Revere and Respect.

well the dictionary doesn't understand it that way.

Fear is never a positive except to the extent it makes you alert to a threat.
Which is useful. But why would you want to invent a threat in the first place?

Because you're setting your target up for a power trip, that's why.

Hi Pogo
You are still focusing on the external secular level,
with the LITERAL language and terms that people use that aren't perfect.

I think you are missing what is meant by the meaning on the collective level
of laws, principles and concepts of human nature that we DID NOT make up.

It's like the natural workings of the world already exist,
but our "man made" language for these laws are a subset.
And this can include both ABUSES that are "false faith" forced on people;
and CONSISTENT terms and laws the DO describe the physical relations and reactions
going on in nature that we DIDN'T make up..

is it CLEAR between us that the ABUSES that exploit fear-mongering
are SEPARATE from the natural laws of how human conscience and nature work.
I want to make sure you are not running these together, as if religion s are synonymous
with fear-based cult controls, and without making a fair distinction between that
and the TRUE meanings that people seek to express using these systems.

Pogo did we make up the mechanism by which we naturally seek life and avoid
things causing death?
Isn't fear a natural survival instinct and part of that binary system of either:
* yes -- this brings security and stability to prolong health and life
* no -- this is dangerous and to be avoided

Now I UNDERSTAND it is NOT healthy to have
FEAR based guilt-tripping religions for monopolizing authority
You are right to call out ABUSES of religion (or politics) based on fear-mongering,
war-mongering, hate and race baiting,etc. Not fair, not healthy and exploitative instead.

But that is NOT the true meaning and purpose behind religion (or govt laws).
Just because these get corrupted doesn't mean those ABUSES define that's what they are for!

Can we PLEASE make a distinction between
* fear-based religious/cult abuse that ISN'T the goal or purpose of religion
vs.
* natural free choice and knowledge of laws
so that fear and avoidance of ill consequences is part of the
human conscience and learning curve.

If it helps, Pogo, we know there are stages of human development
where children are first taught to obey their parents for safety and stability.
Only after kids are mature enough to reason on their own, can they be
expected to learn to make decisions, not based on reward or punishment
by parental authority, but by their own independent reason and learning
from experience of themselves and others.

Can we agree that in the PAST, when mass populations of people
start off ILLITERATE and working and depending on the upper management
and govt classes of people, then there WAS the tendency to teach
and enforce laws based on patriarchal authority, similar to the Father being the disciplinarian of the house.

Sure, this pattern is historical and can explain why the Catholic Church
has been structured this way, for social order and stability.

That was in the past.
But now that society has developed further
with more people literate, and with access to global media to communicate,
it is possible for people to operate independently, to form their own
groups and not rely on one centralized authority to govern every thing to be built and provided..

We don't need to stick to the "fear-based" simplistic way of
teaching based on "God's approval or not". That may have worked in the past,
but for the future, all people nations and tribes need to have a system of
training members to keep the group "self-sustaining."

We as humanity are supposed to move toward social and political maturity
where we make responsible decisions by reason and experience, by
educated choice, not by force of law or faith to manipulate the masses to obey blindly!

All the old ways of fear based obedience to authority are the OT way
when society was not developed, people were not literate, and collective
institutions have been used to herd people around under the management of more educated
and experienced leadership.

The NT is about sharing collective responsibility where the people realize equality.

I think this must be where you are driving at,
and the main issue is you do not relate to religious terms for this process
of growing socially to embrace Equal Justice for all people. But that is
what the end stages in the Bible are describing.

You would probably communicate this using secular terms,
and just don't relate to a personified God or Jesus that comes across
as controlling people with icons and worship of authority figures.

So if you don't relate to that approach,
I would suggest framing Jesus and God
as representing True Justice and Universal Truth
that isn't decided or made up by man. We can come
to terms and consensus on what it takes to achieve these
but no, we did not make them up. We struggle with our "man made"
perceptions and words to establish Truth and Justice,

I agree this doesn't work to project it as manmade religion.

What I find works is using religion as a language to speak to audiences
who respond to that explanation.

So Pogo if this is NOT your native language and you don't feel it relates to you,
it doesn't make sense to use it, that defeats the whole purpose.

It seems better to translate and stick to Secular terms that do ring true with you,
and then work backwards to translate those terms back into the Christian
or Biblical equivalent of that concept or principle.

So if you and I can agree on concepts like Truth and Justice,
once we agree what is the process of establishing these things,
then we could work backwards and show how the Bible uses
religious symbolism to describe that process of how
Truth is established to bring Justice and Peace.

The intent behind the religion is good, but the politics of power grabbing
has corrupted the institutions and masked and lost the message.

[Same with the true spirit of the Constitution vs. the mucked up
bureaucracies we have today that are not what govt was originally designed for,
so of course it is over backlogged and mucked up.]

 

[emilynghiem]

Hey! Here's a curveball.... I also believe that we aren't the only ones in the universe(s)

How does that cause a curveball?

I don't have any problem with people having knowledge of these other levels of life and existence
and it doesn't contradict or negate the truth in the Bible. Are you being so literal with it, that this causes conflicts?

I interpret the Bible universally to mean the process of humanity
moving from retributive justice to restorative justice.

So anything we learn is part of that process of reaching spiritual maturity and peace.

 

[Bonzi]

Talking about mankinds sole duty.

Oh you're right, I forgot to accentuate that avoiding that axe murderer is your "sole duty".
Fear him too.

I didn't spell that out but there you go, you have your orders.


It baffles me why anyone would read a sentence that commands them to "fear" somebody -- and then actually do so. I just can't wrap the head around that. My reaction would be the exact opposite.

Anyway, there goes the old point made earlier that he "loves" us....

The ''fear'' simply means to ''fear the wrath'' of God if you break the Commandments. That doesn't mean you have to live groveling in fear.

I dunno Hoss, that's not what it says. It says "Fear God". As an imperative sentence. "God" is a direct object, not indirect. So as I read it yeah it does mean groveling.

But either way, it still quashes the "He loves us" line.

Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom (i.e. knowledge and understanding that which is righteous- holy; Proverbs 1:7 & 9:10 along with Psalms 111:10 pretty well explains what fear of the Lord is describing).

Any Common carnal knowledge of the understanding as fear to mean groveling is mere ignorance on the part of the reader. God is not an object as an ultimate Spirit of life (God) is not limited to a certain object.

IMO, a loving God does not need to be feared.

fear in the bible doesn't mean like trembling fear... just awe, reverence...

 

[Hossfly]

Oh you're right, I forgot to accentuate that avoiding that axe murderer is your "sole duty".
Fear him too.

I didn't spell that out but there you go, you have your orders.


It baffles me why anyone would read a sentence that commands them to "fear" somebody -- and then actually do so. I just can't wrap the head around that. My reaction would be the exact opposite.

Anyway, there goes the old point made earlier that he "loves" us....

The ''fear'' simply means to ''fear the wrath'' of God if you break the Commandments. That doesn't mean you have to live groveling in fear.

I dunno Hoss, that's not what it says. It says "Fear God". As an imperative sentence. "God" is a direct object, not indirect. So as I read it yeah it does mean groveling.

But either way, it still quashes the "He loves us" line.

Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom (i.e. knowledge and understanding that which is righteous- holy; Proverbs 1:7 & 9:10 along with Psalms 111:10 pretty well explains what fear of the Lord is describing).

Any Common carnal knowledge of the understanding as fear to mean groveling is mere ignorance on the part of the reader. God is not an object as an ultimate Spirit of life (God) is not limited to a certain object.

IMO, a loving God does not need to be feared.

fear in the bible doesn't mean like trembling fear... just awe, reverence...

That's what I've been trying to tell the chuckleheads but they always come back with

 

[emilynghiem]

Oh you're right, I forgot to accentuate that avoiding that axe murderer is your "sole duty".
Fear him too.

I didn't spell that out but there you go, you have your orders.


It baffles me why anyone would read a sentence that commands them to "fear" somebody -- and then actually do so. I just can't wrap the head around that. My reaction would be the exact opposite.

Anyway, there goes the old point made earlier that he "loves" us....

The ''fear'' simply means to ''fear the wrath'' of God if you break the Commandments. That doesn't mean you have to live groveling in fear.

I dunno Hoss, that's not what it says. It says "Fear God". As an imperative sentence. "God" is a direct object, not indirect. So as I read it yeah it does mean groveling.

But either way, it still quashes the "He loves us" line.

Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom (i.e. knowledge and understanding that which is righteous- holy; Proverbs 1:7 & 9:10 along with Psalms 111:10 pretty well explains what fear of the Lord is describing).

Any Common carnal knowledge of the understanding as fear to mean groveling is mere ignorance on the part of the reader. God is not an object as an ultimate Spirit of life (God) is not limited to a certain object.

IMO, a loving God does not need to be feared.

fear in the bible doesn't mean like trembling fear... just awe, reverence...

We say this as people with a mature understanding.
At the same time, I have met people who refused to get straight and quit destroying
themselves and their lives until they had the "fear of God" struck in them.

So there ARE levels that this applies to. And it has saved people's lives, it does help in some cases
where people won't listen to anything else but a huge wake up call that scares them to death.

I don't need that or like it, but I've seen it save people from worse consequences
and compel them to straighten out.

If it works for people, are you going to deny them that kick in the head they needed? Or the other end? To each his own.

When the Taliban had kidnapped two Baptist missionaries, and the military rescue effort suddenly descended on them and took those girls away, yes, they had the fear of God come down on them and ran away. So the two young volunteers were rescued against all odds.

When a friend of mine was being verbally and emotionally abused by her husband's family who didn't accept her, but did horrible things like throwing hot water at her when she came to the door, it took the "fear of God" coming down on the father-in-law to make him stop his fearful rejection. By the time he accepted that "God was talking to him and telling him to change his course of action" he was apologizing and begging the daughter-in-law to take him to church to repent and be baptized. He was afraid for his soul if he didn't stop the fearful backlashing and make peace. And it saved their family relations from any further abuse and division. All the fighting stopped and made peace. She was obedient and patient as a lamb, never ever abusive to him, no matter how horrible he was to her, but was called by God to help him make peace instead of rejecting her and calling her names and other abusive things (which she laughs at now, the whole thing was resolved and healed). It makes me cry to think how mean they were to her, but the whole family and volunteer group are so joyful without any resentment of the troubles they went through in the past, it is hard to be upset or angry, when they have already forgiven and are working to help other families to heal of worse things. They understand and don't judge because they went through that too. They still 'fear God' in terms of knowing that so many bad things happen in the world, anything can go wrong at any time, and to be mindful and thankful at all times.

 

[emilynghiem]

our man made symbols and religions are used to REFLECT the laws already out there,
but the laws exist in the world by their own design, and no, man did not make those up.

If that were true there would be no such thing as 'Religious Conflict' among humans.

The only laws out there that count are the ones that can be enforced.

If any of the gods described in human culture ever starts to actually enforce his own laws, I'll believe.

BINGO AVG-JOE. By Universal truth justice and laws YES we would agree.
Just like we AGREE there is gravity and how it works, we don't argue.
We AGREE the symbols 1+1 = 2 by definition, we AGREE what they stand for, etc.

We are supposed to be that consistent and keep the rest as relative for their proper context.
Not make religious and political conflicts out of ANY excuse to bully and dominate for control!
That is abusive and we aren't supposed to abuse laws for that.

And YES I would say that the right understanding of laws
WILL be self-enforcing because people will naturally respect that and support each other in doing the same. When it's truly for the Public Good (and not political agenda) people natural unite in support.

So that's how we know we've got it right, we will be in tune, in balance peace and harmony with each other.
Nothing else but the perfectly right focus is going to work to get us there.
If there is any selfish self-interest or political agenda involved, someone will reject and divide over it.
Only what is purely universal, by definition, will ring true across the board and invoke compliance by natural respect for law.