Do You Think The Fast & Furious Scandal Is Worse Than Watergate Scandal?

[Unkotare]

Uke my man, I know for a fact that I own more because of the sheer amount I own. I only store ten of the guns in my home, the rest are offsite, and that isnt even 1% of what I own.

You can't know how many guns every member of this site owns in order to reach any such conclusion. There are an awful lot of members here. Do you see why your statement is illogical? It would be illogical even if you were the owner of a gun factory because you cannot know the information you are basing your conclusion upon. Understand?

If you mean every BOARD member then yeah I doubt its more than every board member...but I mean everyone who has posted in this thread.

And youre still right. I could be wrong. But Id lay money on it if we could prove it without getting the government involved lol.

Are you expecting something specific, or is collecting just a hobby of yours? (which is fine)

 

[Vidi]

You can't know how many guns every member of this site owns in order to reach any such conclusion. There are an awful lot of members here. Do you see why your statement is illogical? It would be illogical even if you were the owner of a gun factory because you cannot know the information you are basing your conclusion upon. Understand?

If you mean every BOARD member then yeah I doubt its more than every board member...but I mean everyone who has posted in this thread.

And youre still right. I could be wrong. But Id lay money on it if we could prove it without getting the government involved lol.

Are you expecting something specific, or is collecting just a hobby of yours? (which is fine)

Look at this board.

Now I admit, theres alot of bullshit posturing here. Alot of people talk alot of shit theyd never be able or willing to back up in the really real world.

But look at this board, then look at American politics. Look at what the decisive bullshit is doing to us.

We got downgraded for christ sake. Not because of our economy, but because we fight against each other on every last fucking thing just because the letter behind our names is different.

Now on thsi board its fun. Its a good time sink. Soemthing to pass the time while Im watching a machin e turn raw aluminum into an actual product.

But out in the streets and in the hall of Congress, we are at each others throats. And we are KILLING this country. Killing it. Not because one side is right or wrong but because we flat out refuse to work together on ANYTHING.

Back when the housing bubble was in full swing and everyone predicted clear blue skies forever and ever, I said, sooner or later someones going to want their money and its all going to come crashing down. and I was right.

And Im saying this now...As the gap between rich and poor gets larger and the opportunity to become something greater than what you were born into dries up, sooner or later, there will be ONE small little nothing event, that will ignite all this resentment and blame and when that happens, the shooting will start.

And I figured out a long time ago, that the crazy far right had all the guns and that just wouldnt do.

 

[Vidi]

So guns kill people in your mind, but you still have unwavering love and support for an administration that enacted a policy to give automatic guns to terrorists who have a motivation to kill americans?

Any stance that puts the democrat party above the United States and her citizens I guess.

Was that a question?
I have an unwavering love for what?

Don't you think the gun lobby has a lot of responsibility for the amount of weapons heading to Mexico?
Mexicans have been legally purchasing guns for years in the US because it's so easy.

The gun lobby didnt send guns into mexico that was Holder and Obama

but it IS the gun lobby fabricating the story that the guns were sent into Mexico in order to take guns away from us.

And it IS the gun lobby that opposes proper registration of each and every gun as its being purchased even at gun shows.

Jesus if we passed that it would literally take me months to fill out all the paperwork on my guns lol. But Id do it, because THATS what we should be doing right now anyway.

Enforce existing laws, close loop holes that put guns into the hands of criminals and relax some restrictions of guns for law abiding citizens.

 

[Unkotare]

We're Americans, we've always been at each other's throats. It's what we do; what we've always done. I see no reason to be more alarmed now than ever. We'll work through all this shit, then find new shit to fret over.

 

[Vidi]

We're Americans, we've always been at each other's throats. It's what we do; what we've always done. I see no reason to be more alarmed now than ever. We'll work through all this shit, then find new shit to fret over.

No. Its NOT what we have always done.

Go look at the Kennedy Nixon debate sometime. These were guys who HATED each other. But in the debate they simply presented their ideas, their policies and expected an informed public to decide.

They had different ideas as to the direction the country should go based on the facts before them but they agreed on the FACTS.

today, we cant even agree on the facts. We have been so propgandized that facts are a thing of the past.

Look at the argument over Fast and furious.

FACT: The Bush era ATF used the gunwalking tactic starting in 2005.

Now get a right winger to concede that fact.

FACT: The Bush era programs that used gunwalking ended on 2007. Fast and Furious was a completely seperate operation started in 2009.

Now get a left winger to concede that fact.


FACT: Holder has appeared before the commitee no less than 9 times, sixof which they changed AT THE LAST MINUTE which documents they wanted him to bring with him. Never the less he has provided more than 9000 pages of documents pertaining to F&F to Congress.

Now get a right winger to concede that fact

FACT: The gunwalking operations that ended during the Bush years clearly showed that gunwalking was a failed and dangerous tactic. Yet, they were reinstated during the Obama years.

Now get a left winegr to concede that fact.


If we cant agree on the facts. if all we are going to do it point at the libtards and the rightynutters and spew out name calling like a bunch of third graders, then eventually, just like every third grade argument, it...will... escalate.

 

[Unkotare]

We're Americans, we've always been at each other's throats. It's what we do; what we've always done. I see no reason to be more alarmed now than ever. We'll work through all this shit, then find new shit to fret over.

No. Its NOT what we have always done.

Of course it is. Study American history. We've been at each other's throats much worse than this lots of times.

And every generation thinks it's never been so bad. There have been people saying that since before we formed the republic.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Ah, but it is - because executive privilege cannot cover acts the president was not aware.

Who says? I mean not to be combative but really, who says? Its my understanding that executive priviledge has never been clearly defined and while traditionally it has been used in only the way youre describing, theres no set of rules as to how it can be applied. If that be the case, then could executive priviledge then be applied not to the President himself, but to the entire executive branch?

That question being asked, I hope that theres a battle over this use of executive priviledge and Obama loses. I support Obamas re-election, but to use EP in this way, in my opinion, sets a very dangerous precedent. A precedent that cannot be allowed to stand.

It hasn't been fully established what it does cover, but SCOTUS clearly said it doesn't apply to what the type of communication Obama is trying to shield unless he was personally privy to it.

 

[snowbound]

Ah, but it is - because executive privilege cannot cover acts the president was not aware.

Who says? I mean not to be combative but really, who says? Its my understanding that executive priviledge has never been clearly defined and while traditionally it has been used in only the way youre describing, theres no set of rules as to how it can be applied. If that be the case, then could executive priviledge then be applied not to the President himself, but to the entire executive branch?

That question being asked, I hope that theres a battle over this use of executive priviledge and Obama loses. I support Obamas re-election, but to use EP in this way, in my opinion, sets a very dangerous precedent. A precedent that cannot be allowed to stand.

It hasn't been fully established what it does cover, but SCOTUS clearly said it doesn't apply to what the type of communication Obama is trying to shield unless he was personally privy to it.

As a response to Watergate, the Supreme Court ruled Executive Privilege can't be used to cover up criminal activity. I also believe EP only applies to communications to the President or policy decisions made by the President. If so, it doesn't apply to the first part because criminal activity did take place, and it doesn't apply to the second part UNLESS Obama had direct involvement or knowledge of F&F. Emails from ATF field agents in AZ were sent directly to members of the WH Security Council, soooooo......

 

[Vidi]

We're Americans, we've always been at each other's throats. It's what we do; what we've always done. I see no reason to be more alarmed now than ever. We'll work through all this shit, then find new shit to fret over.

No. Its NOT what we have always done.

Of course it is. Study American history. We've been at each other's throats much worse than this lots of times.

And every generation thinks it's never been so bad. There have been people saying that since before we formed the republic.

If you want three amazing sources of American history, read Howard Zinn's a People history of the United States and Paul Johnsons A history of the American People. Either one by itself is one sided, but put together they are amazing.

Then follow it up by going to your local library and getting American Experience: New York. Its an 18 hour documentary on the complete history of New York...there was an addition after 9/11 happened. If you know the history of New York, you know the history of America.

 

[Fang]

I think it's a very interesting question. Most were very willing to crucify the President over Watergate. So what about 'Fast & Furious?' What do you think?

No one died in Watergate. In Fast & Furious a US border agent was murdered and Obama wants to cover it up.

 

[Vidi]

I think it's a very interesting question. Most were very willing to crucify the President over Watergate. So what about 'Fast & Furious?' What do you think?

No one died in Watergate. In Fast & Furious a US border agent was murdered and Obama wants to cover it up.

Again...thats up for debate.

Watergate Deaths - Midnight 7/12/76

Some claim that up to 30 people died because of Watergate. If it were true, would that mean Watergate was worse?

 

[FactFinder]

Do You Think The Fast & Furious Scandal Is Worse Than Watergate Scandal?


i DO. And I think that snake Holder should be held fully accountable.

 

[buckeye45_73]

I think it's a very interesting question. Most were very willing to crucify the President over Watergate. So what about 'Fast & Furious?' What do you think?

No one died in Watergate. In Fast & Furious a US border agent was murdered and Obama wants to cover it up.

Again...thats up for debate.

Watergate Deaths - Midnight 7/12/76

Some claim that up to 30 people died because of Watergate. If it were true, would that mean Watergate was worse?

It was invesitgated heavily, go put on the tin foil hat.

 

[Annie]

I think it's a very interesting question. Most were very willing to crucify the President over Watergate. So what about 'Fast & Furious?' What do you think?

No one died in Watergate. In Fast & Furious a US border agent was murdered and Obama wants to cover it up.

Again...thats up for debate.

Watergate Deaths - Midnight 7/12/76

Some claim that up to 30 people died because of Watergate. If it were true, would that mean Watergate was worse?

Considering this has more to do with Clinton as a comparison of conspiracy nuttiness...

However, accepting the nuttiness, if the 'up to 30 people', held true for Watergate, still not a comparison. Literally hundreds at least of Mexicans were killed with walked guns.

 

[FactFinder]

That being said, this ***INDEPENDENT*** is most likely going to vote for Obama this year cuz already lived under Romney and I just 'plain ole' don't trust the critter.

 

[Unkotare]

No. Its NOT what we have always done.

Of course it is. Study American history. We've been at each other's throats much worse than this lots of times.

And every generation thinks it's never been so bad. There have been people saying that since before we formed the republic.

If you want three amazing sources of American history, read Howard Zinn's a People history of the United States and Paul Johnsons A history of the American People. Either one by itself is one sided, but put together they are amazing.

Do you have some reason for thinking I haven't already read both of those?

 

[Unkotare]

That being said, this ***INDEPENDENT*** is most likely going to vote for Obama this year cuz already lived under Romney and I just 'plain ole' don't trust the critter.

Be more specific.

 

[Unkotare]

If you know the history of New York, you know the history of America.

Um, no that is not correct.

 

[Vidi]

Of course it is. Study American history. We've been at each other's throats much worse than this lots of times.

And every generation thinks it's never been so bad. There have been people saying that since before we formed the republic.

If you want three amazing sources of American history, read Howard Zinn's a People history of the United States and Paul Johnsons A history of the American People. Either one by itself is one sided, but put together they are amazing.

Do you have some reason for thinking I haven't already read both of those?

most right leaners avoid Zinn like the plague. And left leaners tend to stop at Zinn and Chomsky. so finding people who have read both is rare.

 

[FactFinder]

That being said, this ***INDEPENDENT*** is most likely going to vote for Obama this year cuz already lived under Romney and I just 'plain ole' don't trust the critter.

Be more specific.

Hey, Romney started all this Obama Care crap. Without him it wouldn't exist. It is a prayer answered for the insurance and hospital industry. They are forcing everyone to pay the dues. Romney is an old time establishment man. He thrives in those echelons. Common man? He hasn't a clue. But, he can relate to insurance execs. So buyer beware. Romney/Obama...they both suck for regular folks I just trust Obama a bit more.