Doctors Quitting - Wonderful

[daveman]

OP is Pubcrappe. NO DOCTORS ARE QUITTING.

Your view is limited by Obama's transverse colon.

 

[Charles_Main]

Well , I asked a fucking question. Secondly shit for brains not everyone who is uninsured will qualify for MC, and yeah the states will pay for MC. That certainly IS NOT "the government" paying for everyone's health care, now is it?

In so far as the states will have to pay for the MC expansion, and they are part of our government, Yes it is. And don't be Naive, the states will have to come Begging for Bail outs again, and then we will be back passing another bill to Bail them out.

You can claim what ever you want. Facts are Facts.

2 well 3 Things in the ACA will increase federal and State liabilities massively.

First the MC expansion,

Second and Third the Tax Credits to help people buy Insurance, and Tax Credits to Encourage Business to Offer Insurance. Those are Direct Pay outs of Government Money, to Business and People to encourage people to get Insurance.

How you guys can ignore that, and pretend the ACA is not going to massively Increase the Amount State and Fed government spends on peoples health Care is simply Funny, and frankly Very dishonest.

The tax credit offsets a portion of the employer’s federal income tax liability for the year. Tax-exempt employers receive the credit as a refund, with the provision that the refund cannot exceed the amount of federal income tax and Medicare payroll tax that the employer withholds from the employees’ wages, plus the Medicare tax paid by the employer

Here's the specifics:

•The tax credit decreases as the number of employees approaches 25 and as average annual wages approach $50,000.
•To qualify for the credit, an employer must pay at least half the premium for each employee. The percentage paid by the employer should generally be uniform for all employees, although special provisions will apply when a small employer offers its workers a choice of health plans. Since the law was enacted in March 2010, and employers may not have had time to adjust their policies, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) in 2010 allowed employers who paid at least half the premium to qualify, even if the percentage of premium paid was not uniform across their entire work force.
•From 2014 on, the maximum credit will increase to 50 percent (35 percent for taxexempt employers). However, coverage will have to be purchased through one of the new state-based health insurance exchanges. The credit will only be available to any employer for two consecutive tax years after 2013.


Small Business Tax Credits Under the ACA Examined

Additionally, States can choose to NOT expand MC and therefore NOT take the Federal money provided for that purpose.

Although participating states will distribute the funds, the funds themselves come from the Federal revenue. At least thats my understanding. If you can provide a link disputing that, I am open to new information.

The Funds will initially come from the Fed, But this is the Catch, the thing Obama does not want to talk about. The ACA only helps the States fund this Expansion for the First few years, giving them less and less each year. Eventually the States will have to come up with ways to fund it on their own, and you know what that means, The States will have to Increase taxes. But don't worry Obama and the Dems wont be blamed for those Tax Increases either.

Because apparently Americans are Fucking Ignorant.

 

[Vidi]

In so far as the states will have to pay for the MC expansion, and they are part of our government, Yes it is. And don't be Naive, the states will have to come Begging for Bail outs again, and then we will be back passing another bill to Bail them out.

You can claim what ever you want. Facts are Facts.

2 well 3 Things in the ACA will increase federal and State liabilities massively.

First the MC expansion,

Second and Third the Tax Credits to help people buy Insurance, and Tax Credits to Encourage Business to Offer Insurance. Those are Direct Pay outs of Government Money, to Business and People to encourage people to get Insurance.

How you guys can ignore that, and pretend the ACA is not going to massively Increase the Amount State and Fed government spends on peoples health Care is simply Funny, and frankly Very dishonest.

The tax credit offsets a portion of the employer’s federal income tax liability for the year. Tax-exempt employers receive the credit as a refund, with the provision that the refund cannot exceed the amount of federal income tax and Medicare payroll tax that the employer withholds from the employees’ wages, plus the Medicare tax paid by the employer

Here's the specifics:

•The tax credit decreases as the number of employees approaches 25 and as average annual wages approach $50,000.
•To qualify for the credit, an employer must pay at least half the premium for each employee. The percentage paid by the employer should generally be uniform for all employees, although special provisions will apply when a small employer offers its workers a choice of health plans. Since the law was enacted in March 2010, and employers may not have had time to adjust their policies, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) in 2010 allowed employers who paid at least half the premium to qualify, even if the percentage of premium paid was not uniform across their entire work force.
•From 2014 on, the maximum credit will increase to 50 percent (35 percent for taxexempt employers). However, coverage will have to be purchased through one of the new state-based health insurance exchanges. The credit will only be available to any employer for two consecutive tax years after 2013.


Small Business Tax Credits Under the ACA Examined

Additionally, States can choose to NOT expand MC and therefore NOT take the Federal money provided for that purpose.

Although participating states will distribute the funds, the funds themselves come from the Federal revenue. At least thats my understanding. If you can provide a link disputing that, I am open to new information.

The Funds will initially come from the Fed, But this is the Catch, the thing Obama does not want to talk about. The ACA only helps the States fund this Expansion for the First few years, giving them less and less each year. Eventually the States will have to come up with ways to fund it on their own, and you know what that means, The States will have to Increase taxes. But don't worry Obama and the Dems wont be blamed for those Tax Increases either.

Because apparently Americans are Fucking Ignorant.

I havent seen that aspect. Got a link so I can see for myself?

 

[uscitizen]

We can import plenty more from India, Pakistan, etc.

They are just a commodity.

 

[MarcATL]

And that's just the beginning. This Obama care is going to wreck this country good before anyone wises up and by that time the damage will be done. We'll be decades untangling this mess if it ever takes hold.
People can be so stupid. They will evidently support the downfall of an entire country rather than even consider maybe they're wrong.

This will be one bell that's going to be VERY hard to unring.

This one is doubling down on stupid...

When you trace back the methodology for this survey you find..

KEY FINDINGS

•90% say the medical system is on the WRONG TRACK
•83% say they are thinking about QUITTING
•61% say the system challenges their ETHICS•85% say the patient-physician relationship is in a TAILSPIN
•65% say GOVERNMENT INVOLVEMENT is most to blame for current problems
•72% say individual insurance mandate will NOT result in improved access care
•49% say they will STOP accepting Medicaid patients
•74% say they will STOP ACCEPTING Medicare patients, or leave Medicare completely
•52% say they would rather treat some Medicaid/Medicare patient for FREE
•57% give the AMA a FAILING GRADE representing them
•1 out of 3 doctors is HESITANT to voice their opinion
•2 out of 3 say they are JUST SQUEAKING BY OR IN THE RED financially
•95% say private practice is losing out to CORPORATE MEDICINE
•80% say DOCTORS/MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS are most likely to help solve things
•70% say REDUCING GOVERNMENT would be single best fix.

NOW THOSE i bolded are the IMPORTANT findings if the sample is representative..

Gotta link to this tripe Spruce?

 

[Hum Dinger]

The doctors are quitting? What a laugh!

Whadda they gonna do? Get a job at McDonalds???

 

[francoHFW]

None of these imaginary horrors ever happen. Change the channel.

Doctors are mainly Pub dupes like you fools.

My father was for socialized medicine since 1940. Unique in the area...

 

[ladyliberal]

I haven't read through the thread, so I apologize if someone has already made these points, but...

- This was not a scientifically conducted survey. Respondents were self-selected, and no attempt was made to demographically balance the sample. As such, it cannot be taken to represent the view of doctors as a whole.

- Fewer than 5% of doctors surveyed actually reported that they considered quitting. Most doctors didn't return the survey at all.

- The survey doesn't even ask doctors whether Obamacare is making them consider quitting. It asks them "How do current changes in the medical system affect your desire to practice medicine?" Much fewer than 83% of doctors surveyed viewed government regulation, much less the ACA specifically, as the primary problem.

 

[MarcATL]

I haven't read through the thread, so I apologize if someone has already made these points, but...

- This was not a scientifically conducted survey. Respondents were self-selected, and no attempt was made to demographically balance the sample. As such, it cannot be taken to represent the view of doctors as a whole.

- Fewer than 5% of doctors surveyed actually reported that they considered quitting. Most doctors didn't return the survey at all.

- The survey doesn't even ask doctors whether Obamacare is making them consider quitting. It asks them "How do current changes in the medical system affect your desire to practice medicine?" Much fewer than 83% of doctors surveyed viewed government regulation, much less the ACA specifically, as the primary problem.

CON$ and their junk science.

 

[Charles_Main]

I haven't read through the thread, so I apologize if someone has already made these points, but...

- This was not a scientifically conducted survey. Respondents were self-selected, and no attempt was made to demographically balance the sample. As such, it cannot be taken to represent the view of doctors as a whole.

- Fewer than 5% of doctors surveyed actually reported that they considered quitting. Most doctors didn't return the survey at all.

- The survey doesn't even ask doctors whether Obamacare is making them consider quitting. It asks them "How do current changes in the medical system affect your desire to practice medicine?" Much fewer than 83% of doctors surveyed viewed government regulation, much less the ACA specifically, as the primary problem.

CON$ and their junk science.

Libs, and their Ideological Partisan Blinders.

 

[Charles_Main]

Even if no doctors Quit. Less and less are going to School to be Doctors, and the Current Supply is growing older and closer to Retirement. Now is not the time to be doing things that make the Profession less desirable, and less lucrative to be in.

Which is exactly what we have been doing for many Years.

 

[ladyliberal]

I haven't read through the thread, so I apologize if someone has already made these points, but...

- This was not a scientifically conducted survey. Respondents were self-selected, and no attempt was made to demographically balance the sample. As such, it cannot be taken to represent the view of doctors as a whole.

- Fewer than 5% of doctors surveyed actually reported that they considered quitting. Most doctors didn't return the survey at all.

- The survey doesn't even ask doctors whether Obamacare is making them consider quitting. It asks them "How do current changes in the medical system affect your desire to practice medicine?" Much fewer than 83% of doctors surveyed viewed government regulation, much less the ACA specifically, as the primary problem.

CON$ and their junk science.

Libs, and their Ideological Partisan Blinders.

Am I to understand that you feel that I have mischaracterized the interpretations of the survey? If so, could you explain?

 

[flacaltenn]

Additionally, States can choose to NOT expand MC and therefore NOT take the Federal money provided for that purpose.

Although participating states will distribute the funds, the funds themselves come from the Federal revenue. At least thats my understanding. If you can provide a link disputing that, I am open to new information.

The Funds will initially come from the Fed, But this is the Catch, the thing Obama does not want to talk about. The ACA only helps the States fund this Expansion for the First few years, giving them less and less each year. Eventually the States will have to come up with ways to fund it on their own, and you know what that means, The States will have to Increase taxes. But don't worry Obama and the Dems wont be blamed for those Tax Increases either.

Because apparently Americans are Fucking Ignorant.

I havent seen that aspect. Got a link so I can see for myself?

The States are also expected to absorb many more MediCaid patients from that fictitious 40 Mill uninsured.. So when you discuss COSTS --- we haven't even scratched the surface in terms of STATE TAX impacts...

 

[flacaltenn]

CON$ and their junk science.

Libs, and their Ideological Partisan Blinders.

Am I to understand that you feel that I have mischaracterized the interpretations of the survey? If so, could you explain?

Yeah you have... Respondents can't be bound and shackled to respond. The percent response was actually not unexpectedly low for a fax survey. A phone survey would be even markedly lower. (Here nurse, hold her colon for 20 minutes -- I've got an important phone survey to respond to)

The last thing you want is a belligerent poll respondent. Also, the demographics need not be finely balanced if you don't expect a major change in the response..

They disclosed that the majority was from small practice. This is probably because in a LARGE practice -- the doctors would never see the fax.. I think it's JUST AS important a finding if it is restricted to the small practices that we all know and love...

 

[hortysir]

And that's just the beginning. This Obama care is going to wreck this country good before anyone wises up and by that time the damage will be done. We'll be decades untangling this mess if it ever takes hold.
People can be so stupid. They will evidently support the downfall of an entire country rather than even consider maybe they're wrong.

This will be one bell that's going to be VERY hard to unring.

This one is doubling down on stupid...

When you trace back the methodology for this survey you find..

KEY FINDINGS

•90% say the medical system is on the WRONG TRACK
•83% say they are thinking about QUITTING
•61% say the system challenges their ETHICS•85% say the patient-physician relationship is in a TAILSPIN
•65% say GOVERNMENT INVOLVEMENT is most to blame for current problems
•72% say individual insurance mandate will NOT result in improved access care
•49% say they will STOP accepting Medicaid patients
•74% say they will STOP ACCEPTING Medicare patients, or leave Medicare completely
•52% say they would rather treat some Medicaid/Medicare patient for FREE
•57% give the AMA a FAILING GRADE representing them
•1 out of 3 doctors is HESITANT to voice their opinion
•2 out of 3 say they are JUST SQUEAKING BY OR IN THE RED financially
•95% say private practice is losing out to CORPORATE MEDICINE
•80% say DOCTORS/MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS are most likely to help solve things
•70% say REDUCING GOVERNMENT would be single best fix.

NOW THOSE i bolded are the IMPORTANT findings if the sample is representative..

Gotta link to this tripe Spruce?

Physician Attitudes Survey - June 2012 | Doctor Patient Medical Association

 

[ladyliberal]

Yeah you have... Respondents can't be bound and shackled to respond. The percent response was actually not unexpectedly low for a fax survey. A phone survey would be even markedly lower. (Here nurse, hold her colon for 20 minutes -- I've got an important phone survey to respond to)

The last thing you want is a belligerent poll respondent. Also, the demographics need not be finely balanced if you don't expect a major change in the response..

They disclosed that the majority was from small practice. This is probably because in a LARGE practice -- the doctors would never see the fax.. I think it's JUST AS important a finding if it is restricted to the small practices that we all know and love...

I don't mean to imply that fax surveys are worthless. If you want to know what thousands of doctors think, they're a good way of finding out. Your sample just won't reflect that of doctors as a whole. When the Daily Caller claims that 83% of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare that is completely unsupported by their evidence. If I were to conduct a survey of all the doctors who would talk to me, I would find that my sample would be wildly in favor of the ACA. But that would tell us nothing about what the average American doctor feels.

I agree that demographic balancing is unnecessary if you happen to know that it won't change the response. But if you already know what the response would have been, why do the survey at all? In real surveys, failure to demographically balance surveys (or even to do so poorly) produces wildly inaccurate results.

 

[flacaltenn]

And that's just the beginning. This Obama care is going to wreck this country good before anyone wises up and by that time the damage will be done. We'll be decades untangling this mess if it ever takes hold.
People can be so stupid. They will evidently support the downfall of an entire country rather than even consider maybe they're wrong.

This will be one bell that's going to be VERY hard to unring.

This one is doubling down on stupid...

When you trace back the methodology for this survey you find..

KEY FINDINGS

•90% say the medical system is on the WRONG TRACK
•83% say they are thinking about QUITTING
•61% say the system challenges their ETHICS•85% say the patient-physician relationship is in a TAILSPIN
•65% say GOVERNMENT INVOLVEMENT is most to blame for current problems
•72% say individual insurance mandate will NOT result in improved access care
•49% say they will STOP accepting Medicaid patients
•74% say they will STOP ACCEPTING Medicare patients, or leave Medicare completely
•52% say they would rather treat some Medicaid/Medicare patient for FREE
•57% give the AMA a FAILING GRADE representing them
•1 out of 3 doctors is HESITANT to voice their opinion
•2 out of 3 say they are JUST SQUEAKING BY OR IN THE RED financially
•95% say private practice is losing out to CORPORATE MEDICINE
•80% say DOCTORS/MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS are most likely to help solve things
•70% say REDUCING GOVERNMENT would be single best fix.

NOW THOSE i bolded are the IMPORTANT findings if the sample is representative..

Gotta link to this tripe Spruce?

Physician Attitudes Survey - June 2012 | Doctor Patient Medical Association

Good save HortySir.. Another troller who didn't care to track back the link to the ACTUAL SURVEY to see how it was done....

 

[g5000]

"Doctor, this survey just came in from the DPMA."

"Those whackos? Throw it out."

 

[hortysir]

"Doctor, this survey just came in from the DPMA."

"Those whackos? Throw it out."

True enough, probably.
I was always throwing away 'junk faxes'

 

[flacaltenn]

Yeah you have... Respondents can't be bound and shackled to respond. The percent response was actually not unexpectedly low for a fax survey. A phone survey would be even markedly lower. (Here nurse, hold her colon for 20 minutes -- I've got an important phone survey to respond to)

The last thing you want is a belligerent poll respondent. Also, the demographics need not be finely balanced if you don't expect a major change in the response..

They disclosed that the majority was from small practice. This is probably because in a LARGE practice -- the doctors would never see the fax.. I think it's JUST AS important a finding if it is restricted to the small practices that we all know and love...

I don't mean to imply that fax surveys are worthless. If you want to know what thousands of doctors think, they're a good way of finding out. Your sample just won't reflect that of doctors as a whole. When the Daily Caller claims that 83% of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare that is completely unsupported by their evidence. If I were to conduct a survey of all the doctors who would talk to me, I would find that my sample would be wildly in favor of the ACA. But that would tell us nothing about what the average American doctor feels.

I agree that demographic balancing is unnecessary if you happen to know that it won't change the response. But if you already know what the response would have been, why do the survey at all? In real surveys, failure to demographically balance surveys (or even to do so poorly) produces wildly inaccurate results.

You are correct about the hype in the Daily Caller interpretation. But c'mon, have you seen a news outlet do methodology and literal interpretation of surveys?

You are also correct about it being incomplete.. It would have been better to carefully disclose that mostly small practice doctors responded. These folks are heroes and they ARE BEING PRESSED TO THE LIMITS of tolerance. So I find the results extremely believable.

But it is a little dishonest to throw a hissy fit and multiply the poll result by the % of respondents. NO one scientific does that. It is what it is.. A factoid with probable worth to consider..