Does anyone actually think that Donald Trump would make a good President?

[Jackson]

Excuse me, but if Americans were scared of a wild card, just how did Obama get in there?

Obama was no wild card. He told you exactly what his agenda would be healthcare, getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan, abolishing Don't Ask, Don't Tell and support gay marriage and providing massive stimulus to the economy to pull the country out of recession. American's both liberal and conservative knew exactly what they were getting.

He also said he was going to "heal America" racially. That was a damn lie. He knew that he was going to make the white guy pay and do all he could for "his" people.

When has president ever accomplished everything on his agenda? You said he was wild card. He was no wildcard. Conservative and liberal knew exactly what they were getting.

Not so. When he was elected, I thought he could make a difference with race relations. He talked a good line. He turned into the most racially divisive president we ever had. That legacy will stay with him.

Obama only alluded to improving race relation relations in his March 2008 speech on race, just as his predecessors have done. After the speech, the Wall Street Journal reported, “Both blacks and whites carry enormous expectations for Mr. Obama”. However, Obama never made any specific promises to improve race relations because fixing race relations is an impossible task for any president black or white because specific racial issues are local problems and must be solved at a local level.

Obama only alluded to improving race relation relations in his March 2008 speech on race,
Obama never made any specific promises to improve race relations
And so he tried to improve race relations by:
Claiming Trayvon Martin could be his son; Sending his stooge Holder to Ferguson to ensure the Brown's family's Civil Rights were not over looked, ignoring the police officer who was getting death threats before the facts were out; stating the police were wrong in the Professor Gates issue, again, before the facts came out.
Then Obama opened an Office for African American students to get additional help in school ignoring the fact that disadvantaged student come in a variety of colors...what about them?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Getting back to the topic of the thread, Would Trump make a good president...I like his ideas but not his personality. I'm afraid he always thinks he's right and would never listen to advisors, as good as they may be.

He thinks he has all the answers and I think he's right on target with most. But he isn't presidential. He can't be a diplomat which is what a president is.

I think he could be used for negotiating treaties and business opportunities for the US. But not president.

Putting that aside, he's getting traction the other candidates aren't getting. Maybe some of the GOP candidates should look at his playbook and learn a few things.

I disagree. I look at someone like Trump as being perhaps a little like Teddy Roosevelt. He marches to his own drummer, he is a leader and not a follower... he is a trailblazer. Teddy was hard as fuck but he could be diplomatic when he needed to be. Trump is the same way, he didn't get to where he is by being a total asshole to people.

Now... That said, Teddy wasn't originally elected to the presidency and didn't win his party's nomination. The GOP actually put him on the ticket as a VP to shut him up and get him out of the way. He was William McKinley's VP and became president after McKinley's assassination. But much like Trump, he was very popular among the people and after serving the remainder of McKinley's term he was re-elected in a landslide.

It remains to be seen what will happen with Trump but I like him being in the race, mixing things up, pushing the Establishment goofballs around and making them look stupid. He probably won't win the nomination. I've said all along, I don't think he will... but for now, I'm liking it.

That's a good post, Boss and you make some good points. I like what Trump stands for, I just wince at his delivery.

You'll be wincing even more when the Leftist media starts really digging into Trumps attitude toward women. No doubt this will include a detailed interview of Carrie Prejean, Miss California.

yes what a lurid affair that was, but why would you think it would adversely affect the Donald??

Contract termination
Pageant organizers investigated Prejean for violating the terms of her contract after a photograph of Prejean partially nude with her back turned to the camera appeared on a celebrity gossip blog. Prejean defended the shots as legitimate modeling,[29][30] and Miss USA owner Donald Trump agreed, stating, "We are in the 21st century. We have determined the pictures taken are fine" and that "in some cases the pictures were lovely."[31] Trump went on to compare Prejean's views on same sex-marriage as being in line with those of President Barack Obama,[32] and National Organization for Marriage president Maggie Gallagher stated on May 5 that the release would not affect Prejean's role with her group.[29]

Despite his initial support, Trump agreed to terminate Prejean's contract on June 10, 2009, citing "continued breach of contract issues."[33] Prejean claimed that K2 Productions, producers of the Miss California USA pageant, wanted her to pose for Playboy and appear on the reality television show I'm a Celebrity... Get Me out of Here!, though K2 Productions executive Keith Lewis claimed he was simply notifying Prejean of all offers for appearances.[33]

In August 2009, Prejean sued Miss California USA officials on a variety of civil grounds, including libel, slander, religious discrimination and the unauthorized release of private medical records.[34] K2 Productions and pageant officials filed counterclaims seeking the profits from Prejean's forthcoming book, which it claims was written in violation of the Miss California USA contract, and the return of $5,200 loaned to Prejean for breast implants.[35] On November 3, 2009, Prejean and K2 announced a settlement with undisclosed terms, with both sides dropping their lawsuits.[36] CNN subsequently reported that Prejean's settlement with Miss California USA officials was driven by the discovery of a recording in which Prejean masturbated while another individual filmed her.[37]
Carrie Prejean - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Looks like she sued Miss California USA officials, that would be Pam Wilson and Top 10 Productions, Inc.

Trump had ended his dealings with her as stated from a "continuing breach of contract", but no statement was ever released by Trump or his organization as for exact causation. Looks like the legal grounds, which is where the relevancy lies, were sufficient for Trump to win.

I love it when folks try to personalize or make the reader empathize with these moral train wrecks who end up getting what life has in store for them .............

Trump said he fired her for not maintaining her commitments as Miss California, but let's face it, she didn't want to debase herself by doing photo shoots with Playboy Magazine. The media has been reticent on this because they don't like Prejean either, but soon they will present this as Trump's exploitation with women, which feminists already think of pageants in general.

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

Getting back to the topic of the thread, Would Trump make a good president...I like his ideas but not his personality. I'm afraid he always thinks he's right and would never listen to advisors, as good as they may be.

He thinks he has all the answers and I think he's right on target with most. But he isn't presidential. He can't be a diplomat which is what a president is.

I think he could be used for negotiating treaties and business opportunities for the US. But not president.

Putting that aside, he's getting traction the other candidates aren't getting. Maybe some of the GOP candidates should look at his playbook and learn a few things.

I disagree. I look at someone like Trump as being perhaps a little like Teddy Roosevelt. He marches to his own drummer, he is a leader and not a follower... he is a trailblazer. Teddy was hard as fuck but he could be diplomatic when he needed to be. Trump is the same way, he didn't get to where he is by being a total asshole to people.

Now... That said, Teddy wasn't originally elected to the presidency and didn't win his party's nomination. The GOP actually put him on the ticket as a VP to shut him up and get him out of the way. He was William McKinley's VP and became president after McKinley's assassination. But much like Trump, he was very popular among the people and after serving the remainder of McKinley's term he was re-elected in a landslide.

It remains to be seen what will happen with Trump but I like him being in the race, mixing things up, pushing the Establishment goofballs around and making them look stupid. He probably won't win the nomination. I've said all along, I don't think he will... but for now, I'm liking it.

That's a good post, Boss and you make some good points. I like what Trump stands for, I just wince at his delivery.

You'll be wincing even more when the Leftist media starts really digging into Trumps attitude toward women. No doubt this will include a detailed interview of Carrie Prejean, Miss California.

yes what a lurid affair that was, but why would you think it would adversely affect the Donald??

Contract termination
Pageant organizers investigated Prejean for violating the terms of her contract after a photograph of Prejean partially nude with her back turned to the camera appeared on a celebrity gossip blog. Prejean defended the shots as legitimate modeling,[29][30] and Miss USA owner Donald Trump agreed, stating, "We are in the 21st century. We have determined the pictures taken are fine" and that "in some cases the pictures were lovely."[31] Trump went on to compare Prejean's views on same sex-marriage as being in line with those of President Barack Obama,[32] and National Organization for Marriage president Maggie Gallagher stated on May 5 that the release would not affect Prejean's role with her group.[29]

Despite his initial support, Trump agreed to terminate Prejean's contract on June 10, 2009, citing "continued breach of contract issues."[33] Prejean claimed that K2 Productions, producers of the Miss California USA pageant, wanted her to pose for Playboy and appear on the reality television show I'm a Celebrity... Get Me out of Here!, though K2 Productions executive Keith Lewis claimed he was simply notifying Prejean of all offers for appearances.[33]

In August 2009, Prejean sued Miss California USA officials on a variety of civil grounds, including libel, slander, religious discrimination and the unauthorized release of private medical records.[34] K2 Productions and pageant officials filed counterclaims seeking the profits from Prejean's forthcoming book, which it claims was written in violation of the Miss California USA contract, and the return of $5,200 loaned to Prejean for breast implants.[35] On November 3, 2009, Prejean and K2 announced a settlement with undisclosed terms, with both sides dropping their lawsuits.[36] CNN subsequently reported that Prejean's settlement with Miss California USA officials was driven by the discovery of a recording in which Prejean masturbated while another individual filmed her.[37]
Carrie Prejean - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Looks like she sued Miss California USA officials, that would be Pam Wilson and Top 10 Productions, Inc.

Trump had ended his dealings with her as stated from a "continuing breach of contract", but no statement was ever released by Trump or his organization as for exact causation. Looks like the legal grounds, which is where the relevancy lies, were sufficient for Trump to win.

I love it when folks try to personalize or make the reader empathize with these moral train wrecks who end up getting what life has in store for them .............

Trump said he fired her for not maintaining her commitments as Miss California, but let's face it, she didn't want to debase herself by doing photo shoots with Playboy Magazine. The media has been reticent on this because they don't like Prejean either, but soon they will present this as Trump's exploitation with women, which feminists already think of pageants in general.

What part of Trump doesn't own the Miss California pageant do you keep missing??

My last post which you seem to have read and ignored clearly states which entity owns that pageant and who owns that entity. At no point and time does Trump connect up, can you not get that through your head??

I know it doesn't fit your talking points but give it a fucking rest .........................

 

[Flopper]

Obama was no wild card. He told you exactly what his agenda would be healthcare, getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan, abolishing Don't Ask, Don't Tell and support gay marriage and providing massive stimulus to the economy to pull the country out of recession. American's both liberal and conservative knew exactly what they were getting.

He also said he was going to "heal America" racially. That was a damn lie. He knew that he was going to make the white guy pay and do all he could for "his" people.

When has president ever accomplished everything on his agenda? You said he was wild card. He was no wildcard. Conservative and liberal knew exactly what they were getting.

Not so. When he was elected, I thought he could make a difference with race relations. He talked a good line. He turned into the most racially divisive president we ever had. That legacy will stay with him.

Obama only alluded to improving race relation relations in his March 2008 speech on race, just as his predecessors have done. After the speech, the Wall Street Journal reported, “Both blacks and whites carry enormous expectations for Mr. Obama”. However, Obama never made any specific promises to improve race relations because fixing race relations is an impossible task for any president black or white because specific racial issues are local problems and must be solved at a local level.

Obama only alluded to improving race relation relations in his March 2008 speech on race,
Obama never made any specific promises to improve race relations
And so he tried to improve race relations by:
Claiming Trayvon Martin could be his son; Sending his stooge Holder to Ferguson to ensure the Brown's family's Civil Rights were not over looked, ignoring the police officer who was getting death threats before the facts were out; stating the police were wrong in the Professor Gates issue, again, before the facts came out.
Then Obama opened an Office for African American students to get additional help in school ignoring the fact that disadvantaged student come in a variety of colors...what about them?

Actually, he said Trayvon Martin could have been me"
The attorney general did not say that President Obama is dispatching him to Ferguson. Instead, Holder said that when he met with Mr. Obama on Monday, "I informed him of my plan to personally travel to Ferguson Wednesday."

Get your facts straight.

Eric Holder heads to Ferguson with a clear message - CBS News
Obama Trayvon Martin could have been me - CNNPolitics.com

 

[Pogo]

Conservative love the idea of a no nonsense, candidate who will tell the media to fuck off, insult America's enemy's, and give no quarter to his opponents. However, they also know, corporate sponsors and most middle of the road Americans are scared shirtless of having a wild card in the white house that's subject to temper tantrums and is more likely to speak for himself than the nation when dealing with other countries.

Excuse me, but if Americans were scared of a wild card, just how did Obama get in there?

Obama was no wild card. He told you exactly what his agenda would be healthcare, getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan, abolishing Don't Ask, Don't Tell and support gay marriage and providing massive stimulus to the economy to pull the country out of recession. American's both liberal and conservative knew exactly what they were getting.

He also said he was going to "heal America" racially. That was a damn lie. He knew that he was going to make the white guy pay and do all he could for "his" people.

When has president ever accomplished everything on his agenda? You said he was wild card. He was no wildcard. Conservative and liberal knew exactly what they were getting.

Not so. When he was elected, I thought he could make a difference with race relations. He talked a good line. He turned into the most racially divisive president we ever had. That legacy will stay with him.

Pure bullshit. "Most racially divisive" only if your history stops at 2009.

Buchanan -- failed to address the coming Civil War, just wanted to get out of office before the SHTF...
(A) Johnson -- did little to help and some to hinder the healing after the War...
Grant -- drove a Big Government truck through the South suppressing resistance by force, in effect treating the symptom instead of the disease... see also Lincoln...
Wilson -- segregated the Federal government at the time of the worst everyday racial strife in our history.....

And that's only the African population, doesn't even touch the Native American history...

 

[Pogo]

Obama was a better candidate than McCain. And yes....the economic meltdown was pinned on the GOP by the media....(that's what they do). But the easy lending policies went back to Clinton. Their are an equal number of fingers in that pie....on both sides of the political spectrum.

Wrong, a head of cabbage would have been a better candidate than obama. if you are saying he was a better campaigner than McCain, I agree. But a better candidate------NO.

So what is your evidence that Obama was either born in Kenya....or lied to his college.

If you can't back that claim, just say so.

His publisher said he was born in Kenya on the jacket to his book. So are you now saying that obama lied when he said he was born in Kenya? WTF ?

First sentence: "his publisher said"... next sentence: "Obama said"....
You're saying O'bama was his own publisher?

so, you are saying the publisher made it up and published it without obama's approval? Is that really what you are now claiming?

What I'm "claiming" -- not a 'claim' but simply observing in your own words -- is that first you said "the publisher said X" and then immediately in the next sentence shift to "O'bama said X". It seems you don't know the difference between a publisher and her subject.

The publisher has long ago admitted it was an error anyway. BFD.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

I disagree. I look at someone like Trump as being perhaps a little like Teddy Roosevelt. He marches to his own drummer, he is a leader and not a follower... he is a trailblazer. Teddy was hard as fuck but he could be diplomatic when he needed to be. Trump is the same way, he didn't get to where he is by being a total asshole to people.

Now... That said, Teddy wasn't originally elected to the presidency and didn't win his party's nomination. The GOP actually put him on the ticket as a VP to shut him up and get him out of the way. He was William McKinley's VP and became president after McKinley's assassination. But much like Trump, he was very popular among the people and after serving the remainder of McKinley's term he was re-elected in a landslide.

It remains to be seen what will happen with Trump but I like him being in the race, mixing things up, pushing the Establishment goofballs around and making them look stupid. He probably won't win the nomination. I've said all along, I don't think he will... but for now, I'm liking it.

That's a good post, Boss and you make some good points. I like what Trump stands for, I just wince at his delivery.

You'll be wincing even more when the Leftist media starts really digging into Trumps attitude toward women. No doubt this will include a detailed interview of Carrie Prejean, Miss California.

yes what a lurid affair that was, but why would you think it would adversely affect the Donald??

Contract termination
Pageant organizers investigated Prejean for violating the terms of her contract after a photograph of Prejean partially nude with her back turned to the camera appeared on a celebrity gossip blog. Prejean defended the shots as legitimate modeling,[29][30] and Miss USA owner Donald Trump agreed, stating, "We are in the 21st century. We have determined the pictures taken are fine" and that "in some cases the pictures were lovely."[31] Trump went on to compare Prejean's views on same sex-marriage as being in line with those of President Barack Obama,[32] and National Organization for Marriage president Maggie Gallagher stated on May 5 that the release would not affect Prejean's role with her group.[29]

Despite his initial support, Trump agreed to terminate Prejean's contract on June 10, 2009, citing "continued breach of contract issues."[33] Prejean claimed that K2 Productions, producers of the Miss California USA pageant, wanted her to pose for Playboy and appear on the reality television show I'm a Celebrity... Get Me out of Here!, though K2 Productions executive Keith Lewis claimed he was simply notifying Prejean of all offers for appearances.[33]

In August 2009, Prejean sued Miss California USA officials on a variety of civil grounds, including libel, slander, religious discrimination and the unauthorized release of private medical records.[34] K2 Productions and pageant officials filed counterclaims seeking the profits from Prejean's forthcoming book, which it claims was written in violation of the Miss California USA contract, and the return of $5,200 loaned to Prejean for breast implants.[35] On November 3, 2009, Prejean and K2 announced a settlement with undisclosed terms, with both sides dropping their lawsuits.[36] CNN subsequently reported that Prejean's settlement with Miss California USA officials was driven by the discovery of a recording in which Prejean masturbated while another individual filmed her.[37]
Carrie Prejean - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Looks like she sued Miss California USA officials, that would be Pam Wilson and Top 10 Productions, Inc.

Trump had ended his dealings with her as stated from a "continuing breach of contract", but no statement was ever released by Trump or his organization as for exact causation. Looks like the legal grounds, which is where the relevancy lies, were sufficient for Trump to win.

I love it when folks try to personalize or make the reader empathize with these moral train wrecks who end up getting what life has in store for them .............

Trump said he fired her for not maintaining her commitments as Miss California, but let's face it, she didn't want to debase herself by doing photo shoots with Playboy Magazine. The media has been reticent on this because they don't like Prejean either, but soon they will present this as Trump's exploitation with women, which feminists already think of pageants in general.

What part of Trump doesn't own the Miss California pageant do you keep missing??

My last post which you seem to have read and ignored clearly states which entity owns that pageant and who owns that entity. At no point and time does Trump connect up, can you not get that through your head??

I know it doesn't fit your talking points but give it a fucking rest .........................

Funny how he had the power to terminate Prejean's contract. What is he, chairman of the board? Whatever his position with the pageant, clearly his word was final. Keep up your sycophantic cheerleading for Trump, though, more embarrassments are forthcoming as the media exposes him for the creep he is.

 

[Boss]

you just got done saying they pay taxes as individuals........the income taxed is used as income by the business owner...
however, money flows back and forth in an economy between businesses and individuals, so the trite little saying "business dont pay taxes" has little real meaning.

I guess you don't get it?

Small businesses pay taxes as individuals on individual tax returns. Corporations pay corporate taxes. We don't have retroactive taxation, everyone knows beforehand how much their tax rates will be, so when you raise a businesses tax by.. let's say, 1%... they simply raise their prices by 1%. If they are in a competitive market where they can't afford to do that, they lay off a worker or they don't hire a new worker when someone leaves. In other words, the taxes they pay are not coming out of their pocket. They adjust their business to compensate and at the end of the day, the business doesn't pay taxes. The cost of any and all taxes are included in the price of what they sell.

 

[dcraelin]

you just got done saying they pay taxes as individuals........the income taxed is used as income by the business owner...
however, money flows back and forth in an economy between businesses and individuals, so the trite little saying "business dont pay taxes" has little real meaning.

Tax is a cost of business - it is amortized into the price goods and services. When taxes go up, prices go up. The consumer ultimately pays all taxes.

" When taxes go up, prices go up."..........well then why would the business complain? Why do they complain?

money flows back and forth in an economy, so I could just as easily say businesses ultimately pay all taxes.

 

[Boss]

you just got done saying they pay taxes as individuals........the income taxed is used as income by the business owner...
however, money flows back and forth in an economy between businesses and individuals, so the trite little saying "business dont pay taxes" has little real meaning.

Tax is a cost of business - it is amortized into the price goods and services. When taxes go up, prices go up. The consumer ultimately pays all taxes.

" When taxes go up, prices go up."..........well then why would the business complain? Why do they complain?

money flows back and forth in an economy, so I could just as easily say businesses ultimately pay all taxes.

...then why would the business complain?

Because when prices go up, fewer people are motivated to buy. In certain circumstances, prices don't go up precisely because of this. Instead, downsizing happens, production demands increase, people are laid off or not replaced when they leave. Another thing that often happens is price stays the same but the quantity or quality declines. Certain perks and benefits may be cut... all kinds of things can happen to offset the increased tax. What DOES NOT happen is, the head honcho doesn't take it in the shorts like Liberals fantasize.

 

[Flopper]

you just got done saying they pay taxes as individuals........the income taxed is used as income by the business owner...
however, money flows back and forth in an economy between businesses and individuals, so the trite little saying "business dont pay taxes" has little real meaning.

I guess you don't get it?

Small businesses pay taxes as individuals on individual tax returns. Corporations pay corporate taxes. We don't have retroactive taxation, everyone knows beforehand how much their tax rates will be, so when you raise a businesses tax by.. let's say, 1%... they simply raise their prices by 1%. If they are in a competitive market where they can't afford to do that, they lay off a worker or they don't hire a new worker when someone leaves. In other words, the taxes they pay are not coming out of their pocket. They adjust their business to compensate and at the end of the day, the business doesn't pay taxes. The cost of any and all taxes are included in the price of what they sell.

I had a small business for some years and when faced with higher taxes and other expenses, my first thought was not who to layoff but rather what could be done to cut my tax bill, increase revenue, and lower other expenses which resulted in a visit to my accountant, actually my brother in law. My taxes and other expenses were going up about $20,000. We did cut one employee and contracted his work out and saved about $10,000. We renegotiated a lease and a couple of contracts and saved about $4,000 and consolidated our two offices into one that saved a few thousand. The remainder, I ended up eating because cutting any more staff would reduce revenue. I think most viable small businesses take a similar approach. Just because your taxes are going up X dollars doesn't mean can or will cut X dollars in wages.

 

[Uncensored2008]

" When taxes go up, prices go up."..........well then why would the business complain? Why do they complain?

When prices go up, sales go down - at least in the short term.

You have no clue at all how business operates, do you.

money flows back and forth in an economy, so I could just as easily say businesses ultimately pay all taxes.

No, you sure couldn't.

You have no grasp at all of how an economy functions.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

T-Rump goes Waffen SS

The tweet is now deleted. Why did Trump delete it? Maybe it has something to with those the soldiers marching next to The Donald's shoulder:

#MEGAFAIL ===> Yes, those aren't just WW2 Germans, they're Waffen-SS in the Trump campaign pic Michael Niemerg on Twitter realDonaldTrump 20committee are those troops in the bottom Wehrmacht falseflag

— John Schindler (@20committee) July 14, 2015
Yes, Trump (or his graphic design minions) apparently included a photo of soldiers from the Waffen-SS, the notorious military wing of the Nazi SS, in the image. John Schindler, who seems to know his World War II German uniforms, has been detailing the Trump campaign's photo-research fail:

100% certain Waffen-SS ID on the Trump pic....if media want an explainer how I am certain, ask me John Schindler on Twitter MEGAFAIL Yes those aren t just WW2 Germans they re Waffen-SS in the Trump campaign pic https t.co BSFNuNrK6R

— John Schindler (@20committee) July 14, 2015

 

[dcraelin]

you just got done saying they pay taxes as individuals........the income taxed is used as income by the business owner...
however, money flows back and forth in an economy between businesses and individuals, so the trite little saying "business dont pay taxes" has little real meaning.

I guess you don't get it?

Small businesses pay taxes as individuals on individual tax returns. Corporations pay corporate taxes. We don't have retroactive taxation, everyone knows beforehand how much their tax rates will be, so when you raise a businesses tax by.. let's say, 1%... they simply raise their prices by 1%. If they are in a competitive market where they can't afford to do that, they lay off a worker or they don't hire a new worker when someone leaves. In other words, the taxes they pay are not coming out of their pocket. They adjust their business to compensate and at the end of the day, the business doesn't pay taxes. The cost of any and all taxes are included in the price of what they sell.

or perhaps they cut their own salary, or find other efficiencies....or perhaps they were never really viable in the first place and shut their doors.....

 

[dcraelin]

" When taxes go up, prices go up."..........well then why would the business complain? Why do they complain?

When prices go up, sales go down - at least in the short term.

You have no clue at all how business operates, do you.

money flows back and forth in an economy, so I could just as easily say businesses ultimately pay all taxes.

No, you sure couldn't.

You have no grasp at all of how an economy functions.

Why do business complain then Einstein?...why should they care?

 

[dcraelin]

you just got done saying they pay taxes as individuals........the income taxed is used as income by the business owner...
however, money flows back and forth in an economy between businesses and individuals, so the trite little saying "business dont pay taxes" has little real meaning.

Tax is a cost of business - it is amortized into the price goods and services. When taxes go up, prices go up. The consumer ultimately pays all taxes.

" When taxes go up, prices go up."..........well then why would the business complain? Why do they complain?

money flows back and forth in an economy, so I could just as easily say businesses ultimately pay all taxes.

...then why would the business complain?

Because when prices go up, fewer people are motivated to buy. In certain circumstances, prices don't go up precisely because of this. Instead, downsizing happens, production demands increase, people are laid off or not replaced when they leave. Another thing that often happens is price stays the same but the quantity or quality declines. Certain perks and benefits may be cut... all kinds of things can happen to offset the increased tax. What DOES NOT happen is, the head honcho doesn't take it in the shorts like Liberals fantasize.

you're contradicting yourself

 

[dcraelin]

" When taxes go up, prices go up."..........well then why would the business complain? Why do they complain?

When prices go up, sales go down - at least in the short term.

You have no clue at all how business operates, do you.

money flows back and forth in an economy, so I could just as easily say businesses ultimately pay all taxes.

No, you sure couldn't.

You have no grasp at all of how an economy functions.

and I could say if you tax the consumer more.....sales go down...........its the same thing

 

[Boss]

you just got done saying they pay taxes as individuals........the income taxed is used as income by the business owner...
however, money flows back and forth in an economy between businesses and individuals, so the trite little saying "business dont pay taxes" has little real meaning.

I guess you don't get it?

Small businesses pay taxes as individuals on individual tax returns. Corporations pay corporate taxes. We don't have retroactive taxation, everyone knows beforehand how much their tax rates will be, so when you raise a businesses tax by.. let's say, 1%... they simply raise their prices by 1%. If they are in a competitive market where they can't afford to do that, they lay off a worker or they don't hire a new worker when someone leaves. In other words, the taxes they pay are not coming out of their pocket. They adjust their business to compensate and at the end of the day, the business doesn't pay taxes. The cost of any and all taxes are included in the price of what they sell.

I had a small business for some years and when faced with higher taxes and other expenses, my first thought was not who to layoff but rather what could be done to cut my tax bill, increase revenue, and lower other expenses which resulted in a visit to my accountant, actually my brother in law. My taxes and other expenses were going up about $20,000. We did cut one employee and contracted his work out and saved about $10,000. We renegotiated a lease and a couple of contracts and saved about $4,000 and consolidated our two offices into one that saved a few thousand. The remainder, I ended up eating because cutting any more staff would reduce revenue. I think most viable small businesses take a similar approach. Just because your taxes are going up X dollars doesn't mean can or will cut X dollars in wages.

Well that correlates with what I said... there are a variety of methods a business has to compensate for a tax increase. The fact is, you didn't just sit there and eat a $20k tax hike. In your example, I see where someone lost a tenant and the income they brought in... that has an effect on the economy. You consolidated two offices into one... another tenant was lost and the income they brought in. Someone else lost $4k in re-negotiated contracts and leases... that has to be factored in as well. Not to mention a job was lost in the process, that person has to go find new work... and in a market that is laying people off because of the higher taxes. Property owners stuck without a tenant in a market that is consolidating offices because of the higher tax. Across the board the tax increase effected all kinds of other things, other businesses, other lives. In the end, it didn't really punish you, the owner, all that much. And it never does.

 

[Boss]

you're contradicting yourself

No, I am trying to explain business to a person who is business illiterate and you are confused.

 

[dcraelin]

you're contradicting yourself

No, I am trying to explain business to a person who is business illiterate and you are confused.

ok Einstein ...you genius you