Does anyone NOT think that the Democratic Party has CLEARLY moved Left?

[Tehon]

Opposing the ill conceived and worthless trump tax cuts wouldn't make your point. That same struggle has been going on for over 40 years.

Healthcare? Same shit,new day.

Abortion? Welcome to 1973, people.

Well... let's say, Bernie is driving the debate about ending the largely regressive tax structure. Warren goes about reigning in the financial plutocracy. Pelosi's government ethics package goes some way establishing some semblance of fairness.

President Obama was facing the situation that a public option would never get through a solidly Democratic Congress. These days, the public option is the baseline of what they envision.

Inslee is getting serious about climate change, and so does AOC's Green New Deal.

As to abortion, they are proposing the Hyde Amendment be scrapped - even Biden dropped his support for it.

So, there are in fact tiny, tentative steps to the left. Whether there are going to be legislative majorities for any of these issues remains to be seen, but I find the Democrats are in fact moving, even while they are drawing a boundary between themselves and what they apparently think are Bernie's revolutionary pipe dreams.

"Too far to the left" is, of course, a very, very long way to go.

Whether there are going to be legislative majorities for any of these issues remains to be seen

Until such time as we see it, we are dealing with nothing but composition fallacies. None of these individuals you have pointed out represent the whole of the Democratic Party. And BTW, Democratic candidates have a long history of running against the Hyde Amendment.

 

[Olde Europe]

Until such time as we see it, we are dealing with nothing but composition fallacies. None of these individuals you have pointed out represent the whole of the Democratic Party. And BTW, Democratic candidates have a long history of running against the Hyde Amendment.

Composition fallacies, eh?

As I said, Democrats are in fact moving, and even Biden dropped his support for the Hyde Amendment.

 

[Norman]

When's the last time abortions for men was brought up in a democratic debate... or in any debate where adults were the participants?

 

[Norman]

Until such time as we see it, we are dealing with nothing but composition fallacies. None of these individuals you have pointed out represent the whole of the Democratic Party. And BTW, Democratic candidates have a long history of running against the Hyde Amendment.

Composition fallacies, eh?

As I said, Democrats are in fact moving, and even Biden dropped his support for the Hyde Amendment.

I bet that guy is a huge believer in the magic dirt theory. "Democrat part is not its members". "America is not its people". What a load of nonsense.

 

[Tehon]

Until such time as we see it, we are dealing with nothing but composition fallacies. None of these individuals you have pointed out represent the whole of the Democratic Party. And BTW, Democratic candidates have a long history of running against the Hyde Amendment.

Composition fallacies, eh?

As I said, Democrats are in fact moving, and even Biden dropped his support for the Hyde Amendment.

Yes, a composition fallacy. Biden does not represent the Democratic party in its whole.

The Hyde Amendment is not even a good example of a move to the left, as Democratic Party candidates have run against it going back years. Meaning that it is not even a shift to the left, but status quo. Clinton wanted to get rid of it. Al Gore famously changed his position on the Hyde Amendment and abortion in general.

 

[JoeB131]

You are confused Moon Bat. You can always vote for a corporation. You vote every time you buy their products.

Not really. I didn't "choose" Cigna, who pretty much fucked me over when I got sick at every opportunity. The problem is, the whole, "I can take my business elsewhere" works just fine when you are dealing with Mom's Diner or Bob's Shoe Store... but it really doesn't work so well with a big corporation that can crush you like a bug.

I would trust a corporation producing a product for profit a million times more than I would trust a stupid bureaucrat whose boss is a corrupt politician elected by special interest groups.

You see, this is where you get confused... Who do you think "Special interest groups' are? THEY ARE FUCKING CORPORATIONS WITH TOO MUCH MONEY AND POWER!

 

[JoeB131]

You've got it ass-backwards to reality.
Both Obama and Clinton ran as moderates.
Obama ran as a Christian Moderate, then became a Muslim Socialist while in office.

Actually, Obama never really talked about his religion... and given that he eats pork, drinks beer, etc., he's really not doing a very good job as Muslim.

He waited till he was re-elected to become more "flexible" (Radically Left)...and Clinton wasn't allowed to go far left because he had a GOP congress helping give him a surplus. But he did sell all kinds of missile technology to our enemies.

Wow, man, you go the whole Hate Radio Crazy, don't you. I used to do that... until I realized who my real enemies were.

When the Republicans cut your subsidies to pay for tax cuts for the rich, you might come around. But given you work on a military base, collect a pension and rent to Section 8 Renters, you are probably the biggest welfare queen out there.

 

[JoeB131]

Well, the party is simply doing what the GOP did with Trump, and that's marginalizing anyone who isn't with "the base".

As usual, the two parties can be very similar in their behaviors.

You see, this is where you are a little confused. The PRIMARY season is always about the base. Has been as long as I've been watching politics. It's when the establishment tries to force a moderate that the base isn't keen on (Hillary, Romney, McCain) that you get half-ass enthusiasm from the base and lose in November.

The real problem here is that you would probably be happier with the Republican party given their stance on financial issues (which helps your class but screws the rest of us), but you aren't comfortable with their social issues (which is why they win any elections at all.)

 

[JoeB131]

Well not really. You complained that Trump was pandering to his base...America. I dont see that as a failing. If Hillary pandered to her Mexican and Muslim base perhaps that is good politics but it isnt good for America. You have to shuck your reliance on the Fallacy of the Middle Ground. It is erroneous.

Pandering to your fear a Mexican might move in next store is a failing.

 

[JoeB131]

The Democratic party, however, has clearly moved Left, at least in my view.

But you never give any examples.

 

[Norman]

The Democratic party, however, has clearly moved Left, at least in my view.

But you never give any examples.

Well, in your view anything that's not to the left of Marx is far right, so of curse they were and still are the far right from that perspective.

To anyone with eyes they have moved, which is scientifically confirmed now as well, to those without eyes and ears. That only leaves the batshit insane raving lunatic communists such as yourself.

 

[JoeB131]

1960 "ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country!"

2019 "free stuff for everybody!" "Reparations for whiney assed babies"! "You are a victim of old white men!" "Down with free speech!" "Jews are evil!" "Abort those babies as they are being born!" "We will punish you if you do not admit there are 32 genders!"

The Corporatists on Stage weren't nearly as liberal as JFK was..

I mean, i know that women and people of color having a say terrifies you. You are still suffering from ODS (Obama Derangement Syndrome).

 

[JoeB131]

Well, in your view anything that's not to the left of Marx is far right, so of curse they were and still are the far right from that perspective.

No, I asked for concrete examples.. Where has the Democratic Party really moved to the left on issues since, let's say, 2000.

They really haven't.

 

[Norman]

Well, in your view anything that's not to the left of Marx is far right, so of curse they were and still are the far right from that perspective.

No, I asked for concrete examples.. Where has the Democratic Party really moved to the left on issues since, let's say, 2000.

They really haven't.

On every single issue. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.

Back then they were about securing the border. Today, open borders and free health care for illegals. If they tried that in the past the party would not even exist today. Today they can do that because there are so many invaders in the country.

 

[JoeB131]

After the conservatives failed conserving anything, the right has moved towards nationalism and Americanism.

Which is kind of the problem. The world has changed. We've become much more internationalized... This is actually a GOOD thing, but unfortunately, the GOP plays on your fears.

 

[Norman]

After the conservatives failed conserving anything, the right has moved towards nationalism and Americanism.

Which is kind of the problem. The world has changed. We've become much more internationalized... This is actually a GOOD thing, but unfortunately, the GOP plays on your fears.

So now you are saying that they have indeed moved to the left.

I can show you an example of a good thing for the country: Your deportation. That's actually good thing, too bad you don't embrace it because you know you are full of shit.

 

[JoeB131]

On every single issue. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.

Back then they were about securing the border. Today, open borders and free health care for illegals. If they tried that in the past the party would not even exist today. Today they can do that because there are so many invaders in the country.

Except nobody is really saying "Open Borders". We are just saying a wall is stupid, concentration camps are bad, and we really should give some of the people who've been here a while a path to citizenship.

The Democratic position really is exactly the SAME position taken by Bush and McCain in 2008, which they couldn't get past your xenophobic base.

 

[JoeB131]

So now you are saying that they have indeed moved to the left.

I can show you an example of a good thing for the country: Your deportation. That's actually good thing, too bad you don't embrace it because you know you are full of shit.

Again, buddy, I'm a Veteran. I've done more for this country than you ever have or will.

 

[Mac1958]

1960 "ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country!" 2019 "free stuff for everybody!" "Reparations for whiney assed babies"! "You are a victim of old white men!" "Down with free speech!" "Jews are evil!" "Abort those babies as they are being born!" "We will punish you if you do not admit there are 32 genders!" Ya think??!!??

And yet four or five posters here have said "no", that the party hasn't moved Left.

Politics really can be mind-blowing.
.

a
They must be childten, still, so have no yardstick by which to measure.

Ideology can be one helluva powerful thing.
.

Especially when the ideology involves consists of nothing beyond hating what is perceived as the opposing ideology.

Today's leftists have no idea what they stand FOR, only what they stand against.

Well, I think they're making their desires pretty clear, and that's the point of the thread.

The most interesting part of the thread has been the number of them who don't see any change. I think they're being perfectly honest, and that's why I find this stuff so interesting.

I'm also getting the impression that for some of them, this direction is where the party should have been headed all along, and so in their minds, that's not really a change.

Always fascinating to toss a generic idea out there and just see what happens.
.

 

[Norman]

On every single issue. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.

Back then they were about securing the border. Today, open borders and free health care for illegals. If they tried that in the past the party would not even exist today. Today they can do that because there are so many invaders in the country.

Except nobody is really saying "Open Borders". We are just saying a wall is stupid, concentration camps are bad, and we really should give some of the people who've been here a while a path to citizenship.

The Democratic position really is exactly the SAME position taken by Bush and McCain in 2008, which they couldn't get past your xenophobic base.

No, they literally said that the law that makes it illegal to cross the border should be taken out of the books, if I recall correctly.

And then, the illegals need free health care.

Mr. Veteran, is cheering all the way as they suggest the invasion of their own country. Joe B, besides being a communist, is probably a satanist as well.