Does God Exist?

[ding]

Oh, wait! I know what you're going to say! The DEVIL created sin! Yes, of course! Except... didn't God create the Devil, too?

It might be helpful for you (or not) to know that sin is anything which distances you from God and that evil is not extant.

 

[ding]

Hey Bruce, it’s funny how irony works.

If you want to have a realistic debate about the existence of God and what his advocates believes, fine. Let's do that. But if you simply want to ridicule people who are trying to make their lives better and this country a better place to live in the face of yiur assault on everything they believe in, I won't go along with that.

See what I did there?

Anytime you want to debate me in the bull ring on any subject, let’s go.

Oh, dare I say it? Fuck you. If you want to have a realistic debate about what the Democratic party believes and advocates, fine. Let's do that. But if you simply want to slander progressives who are trying to make this country a better place to live in the face of Trump's assault on everything we believe in, I won't go along with that.

 

[shockedcanadian]

The short answer: No. We're born, we live, we die. That's it. There is no intelligence controlling the universe.

One simple question to stymie yours, "how do you know this"?

 

[ding]

You do realize that matter and energy are equivalent, right?

No. Is a dingbat the equivalent of ding?

You can create matter, but not energy.

So whether I say matter or energy can’t exist without creating space time it like saying the same thing, right.

I think you're confused. People may think matter and energy are the same because they are found together. I agree both need space time. But then you can't create energy. Thus, big bang is impossible.

So what did God do?

so you understand the concept of space but are confused by space time. Space is the 3 dimensions represented by x, y and z coordinates. The 4th dimension t or time represents or is a measurement of expansion. Time doesn’t really exist it’s just a convenient way of demarcating the expansion of space. Space time is usually shown as a cone since the universe is relatively flat.

I’m not your enemy. So stop acting like I am.

C'mon you're just making stuff up. d = r * t, so t = d/r.

You fly from SF to NYC in a jet and your watch shows it takes you almost 6 hours. I go in the transporter and my watch shows less than a second has elapsed. Time exists and it's not always based on space expansion. Are you just saying that to fit big bang? What are you missing? Hint: Einstein.

Are you really an engineer?

And why does my post make you think I am your enemy?

Trying to educate you on science is a waste of time.

 

[ding]

Did you know that the central nervous system of every mammal species got larger over time?

I didn't know that and I'm not sure what it means.

It means that very nature of existence is to create intelligence. It is unavoidable. It is not an accident.

 

[ding]

The reality/truth is, that IF all species of animal life evolved from "Natural Selection", then any evolutionist should be able to "evolve" an entirely new species intentionally from any given existing species. The truth is that for centuries man has been breeding both plants and animals and has never been able to reveal anything other that a designer hybrid of the species he or she started with. Bigger dogs, smaller dogs, hairless cats, and beautiful tomatoes are not new species but a hybrid of what already existed. No one here today will say that an Ethiopian is any closer to an ape than an Englishman.

Classic straw man argument that ignores the mountains of fossil, anatomical, and biological evidence for evolution. Sorry, but evolution is a fact. Natural selection is a likely mechanism but probably not the whole story.

The straw man is in your court as the fossil, anatomical, and biological evidence all point to a catastrophic event that the Bible labels the Flood. I will agree that even "identical" twins display variations. This is what is known as INDIVIDUALITY and UNIQUENESS. And there is evidence that there is variety within every KIND. However, to even suggest that man somehow evolved from a distant ancient slug and that there is plenty of evidence demonstrating some upward progression transcending species of any sort is false. The fact remains that had Darwin known the DNA complexities of what he labeled "simple" single celled organisms, he likely would have re-imagined his view of the subject.

Can you name what fossil, anatomical, and biological evidence point to a catastrophic event that the Bible labels the Flood? Or are you just making stuff up?

The Hiawatha asteroid impact.

Except it didn’t end human life worldwide. Stop reading Genesis literally.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Maybe so. However, I've never met a Christian who didn't think others would be going to hell but not them.

Basically, we know via the Holy Spirit. That said, Blaise Pascal wasn't sure if he would be "annihilated or unhappy forever." I think he knew.

Actually, you know no such thing.

As with religion and ‘god,’ the notion of a ‘holy spirit’ is a creation of man; just as there’s no ‘god’ as perceived by theists, so too is there neither heaven nor hell.

 

[Newtonian]

Maybe so. However, I've never met a Christian who didn't think others would be going to hell but not them.

Basically, we know via the Holy Spirit. That said, Blaise Pascal wasn't sure if he would be "annihilated or unhappy forever." I think he knew.

Actually, you know no such thing.

As with religion and ‘god,’ the notion of a ‘holy spirit’ is a creation of man; just as there’s no ‘god’ as perceived by theists, so too is there neither heaven nor hell.

Genesis 1:1 refers to the creation of heavens and earth - not Hell. We do not believe in the doctrine of eternal torment in Hell Fire. But the stars of the heavens do exist.

One evidence of God's existence is the Bible itself - its accuracy.

The origin of life required all the necessary molecules to be in the same place at the same time - this is impossible by chance. So, what was God's spirit doing going to and fro over earth's primordial waters in darkness (and, from science: hot) as per Genesis 1:2

 

[Newtonian]

I think there is. I don't believe any human knows who or what God is exactly, but IMO there's too much evidence to discount the existence of a God or Gods.

There is no evidence that proves the existence of a God or Gods. My argument is: There is no God. The onus is on YOU to PROVE that God exists.

The existence of God isn't provable in the mathematical or legal sense. So like I said I don't claim to know who or what God is. I just see a lot of evidence that supports God or the Gods existence.

I think there is. I don't believe any human knows who or what God is exactly, but IMO there's too much evidence to discount the existence of a God or Gods.

There is no evidence that proves the existence of a God or Gods. My argument is: There is no God. The onus is on YOU to PROVE that God exists.

The evidence is circumstantial, but there is a lot of it. Kind of like the O.J. case.

And yet you don't cite any evidence at all.

The evidence is all around you.

What? The universe? That's your evidence for God? The universe proves that IT exists. It proves nothing about God.

Actually, it does. The truth is that our universe has laws and properties that could not have been produced by chance. You cannot have laws without a lawgiver:

Job 38:33
Do you know the laws governing the heavens,+
Or can you impose their* authority on the earth?

 

[Newtonian]

Why does the thought of The Universe without G-d make you so angry?

Why does it make you so fearful and gullible? Are you afraid you just might not live forever?

I'm definitely not living forever. How boring would that be.

It will never be boring. For example, the joy of discovery in science (Romans 1:20) will continue forever:

Ecclesiastes 3:10,11
I have seen the occupation that God has given to the sons of men to keep them occupied. 11 He has made everything beautiful* in its time.+ He has even put eternity in their heart; yet mankind will never find out the work that the true God has made from start to finish.

 

[Newtonian]

Saying "God did it" is an easy dodge. Saying how it was done, that takes science.

Saying that the universe created itself out of nothing is even a bigger dodge. There is nothing in our knowledge of Science that say it is possible. In fact the Laws of Physics as we understand them says that it is impossible. That is why the secularit theorists come up with absurd things like "the Laws of Physics didn't exist when the universe was made", and other silly things.

True as I have also posted. And most scientists ignore the Bible - thankfully Galileo and Newton accepted that truth comes from both science and the Bible.

The most common model of Big Bang theory is that our universe began with a singularity with zero dimensions - but most scientists are at a loss to explain why this happened and so they create fanciful theories with no observational evidence - in other words: blind faith.

I have already posted on Isaiah 40:22,26 as it relates to the fine tuned expansion of our universe involving plural forms of God's energy (Hebrew ohnim) such as gravity and dark energy. But I have not addressed the illustration in verse 22 that hints at how the singularity was formed.

Isaiah 40:22
There is One who dwells above the circle* of the earth,+
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers.
He is stretching out the heavens like a fine gauze,
And he spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.+

Most simply scoff at the illustration of a tent - not realizing this illustration hints at both the shape of the universe (is the universe flat like a stretching out flat tentcloth?). But tents have more than one tent cloth.

The sacred "tent of meeting" (tabernacle) in geometric terms is/was a rectangular prism. The hint as to how the singularity was formed is in the fact that the corners of this tent are actually points with zero dimensions.

Personally, I favor a collision of branes model but based on membranes/cloths with only 2 dimensions. If two 2-d branes were to intersect on edge, the intersection point would be a singularity!

“The most common model of Big Bang theory is that our universe began with a singularity with zero dimensions - but most scientists are at a loss to explain why this happened and so they create fanciful theories with no observational evidence - in other words: blind faith.”

That’s actually not true. The “singularity” is a mathematical solution (of sorts) to Einstein’s theory of relativity. It’s really solving the equation until a null solution is reached.

The “singularity” and a “universe from nothing” are actually misconceptions typically pressed by religionists in an attempt to denigrate science. This allows them to maintain their super-magical gods without any evidence.

Any Scientist that you ask will tell you that TBB theory is really nothing more than placeholder to explain the unexplainable.

Nobody can tell us:

What was here before the BB?

Where did the energy for BB come from?

What initiated the BB?

The there is this thingy about how can the whole universe, consisting of trillions of galaxies, be reduced to the size of the head of a pin? Actually, even smaller.

I'm not so sure any scientist that you ask will tell you that TBB theory is really nothing more than placeholder to explain the unexplainable. What scientists have you asked?

To "explain the unexplainable" is an oxymoron. What you're missing is that science provides a mechanism to explore the expansion of the universe and what caused that event to happen. You might not have noticed but it wasn't the religious institutions that placed the Hubble in orbit, built radio telescopes or sent the Explorer spacecraft to distant planets.


Lets pose your questions differently, shall we?

What was here before the BB Gods?

Where did the energy for BB The Gods come from?

What initiated the BB Gods?

You have furthered the common misconception that the BB was a point in space, with all matter on the head of a pin. That's not accurate. Further, the BB was not the beginning of the universe but what came after.

So, you don't agree with scientists who claim our universe began from a singularity with no dimensions? Can you link to scientific evidence for anything you do believe?

To dismiss scientific research by saying the origin of our universe is unexplainable stifles scientific discovery and also ignores what has already been discovered.

To be specific: do you agree that the origin of our universe did not violate the law of conservation of matter and energy (E=Mc^2)? And do you agree that origin did not violate the scientific principle of cause and effect?

 

[alang1216]

So how did Satan create the quantum particle called singularity of infinite temperature and infinite density? Which Gospel was that again? I'd hate to think you were just making this stuff up. (You do know that matter can be converted to energy, right?)

He whispered it into atheist scientist's Stephen Hawking's brain. No one but Satan's follower would call it "Gospel."

One of the closest Bible verses is:
"Covering yourself with light as with a garment, stretching out the heavens like a tent." Psalm 104:2

OK, now I know you're just making stuff up. Satan whispered to Hawking? How do you know it wasn't God?

Your Bible verse is way off in left field. Face it, quantum mechanics was unknown to the ancients. They didn't even know why it rained.

 

[alang1216]

Did you know that the central nervous system of every mammal species got larger over time?

I didn't know that and I'm not sure what it means.

It means that very nature of existence is to create intelligence. It is unavoidable. It is not an accident.

I'd say that something that waited over 4 billion years to happen is hardly unavoidable. We don't even know if it will last. Maybe it is just a random happenstance?

 

[Blues Man]

So the bible is fiction that you just happen to think is truth.

Not what I said or what I believe. However, I have the impression that is your take--that the Bible is fiction that people of faith happen to think is true. And that is farther from what I said as the East is from the West.

If you (and others) want to think the Bible is merely fiction and fables, I am here to listen, and I will certainly not talk you out of your your perception. However, nor will you change my perception, mostly because I have done too much in depth study for so long (and yes, including from those who state the Bible is fiction and fable) to go back to those views. The Bible needs and deserves long, in depth study--not just a casual read-through with the belief that is all that is needed to make up one's mind. That is my take. That and about $4 will get you a nice cup of coffee at Starbucks. (They may even let you have the coffee without my opinion! )

You yourself said the Bible in not the actual word of your god but rather something written men.

You also said you don't know which parts are the ones that are merely the musings of mere mortals.

And I'm not stupid enough to pay $4 for a cup of coffee

 

[Blues Man]

MAybe you should worship Abe at least there is actual proof he existed

I think not. I do admire him, particularly because of a couple of statements he made: When asked if he though God was on the side of the Union, he responded that he thought it best if the Union was on God's side. He also remarked that most people are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.

I have no need to view Lincoln's bones. Besides, I would choose God's eternal love over dry bones any day of the week--not to mention twice on Sundays.

Your god only loves you if you obey and worship him.

 

[Hollie]

With atheists, I've found that they have to repent their atheism first. I think it's hard for them to have faith in God because their atheism gets in the way.

So, let me get this straight, an atheist first needs to ask a god they don't believe exists
to be forgiven for an offense they are not aware of, otherwise,....

Thus, even if they pray, God does not come. They're not being open minded and sincere in their prayer.

Without faith, an open mind and a sincere heart
God ignores you and doesn't want to be bothered

First of all, what is more important...
Having faith or Who you have faith in

Anyone who professes there is no God and for whatever reason
find themselves reaching out to this God they've heard about but don't believe in...
You best believe that is God's doing

Faith comes by hearing
and hearing by the Word of God

Romans 10:17

Secondly
Babies are not fed solid foods their bodies can't digest yet
Their nutrients first come from milk until they are capable of handling solid foods

Who can recognize sin unless they realize what God considers sin
Who can ask for forgiveness unless they acknowledge sin according to God as sin

I think its hard for people to have faith in the God and Father of Jesus
because of those who do

I think it’s difficult to have faith in superstition and supernaturalism.

No faith is faith too

No. No faith in the supernatural is a conclusion.

Faith is belief, believing, blind trust
Conclusions are based on convictions

How can you have beliefs
without having faith in what you believe

You don't believe there is a God,
then you have faith there isn't
You have faith in what you believe

faith

complete trust or confidence in someone or something.

There’s no requirement for faith in the methods of science.
The earth isn't flat. Species evolved. These are not spiritual facts, they're material.

So, you don't draw your own conclusions, you accept someone else's
You can not accept a Creator leaning on your own intellect
but you will accept the human race evolved from apes

The earth isn't flat, so what is your point
The earth was at one time determined to be flat

Science evolves and changes, God does not
He is the same yesterday, today and for infinity

And when religionists proclaim they've found a verse in a holy book that contradicts them, they're wrong because they've read into the verse something beyond its spiritual intent.

You saying as much doesn't make it so

What qualifies you to discern spiritual matters

"Science evolves and changes, God does not
He is the same yesterday, today and for infinity"

"...because I say so"

You haven't made an argument.

BTW, gods change all the time. Mankind has invented hundreds of them.

 

[Meriweather]

You also said you don't know which parts are the ones that are merely the musings of mere mortals.

No, I did not say that.

 

[alang1216]

The reality/truth is, that IF all species of animal life evolved from "Natural Selection", then any evolutionist should be able to "evolve" an entirely new species intentionally from any given existing species. The truth is that for centuries man has been breeding both plants and animals and has never been able to reveal anything other that a designer hybrid of the species he or she started with. Bigger dogs, smaller dogs, hairless cats, and beautiful tomatoes are not new species but a hybrid of what already existed. No one here today will say that an Ethiopian is any closer to an ape than an Englishman.

Classic straw man argument that ignores the mountains of fossil, anatomical, and biological evidence for evolution. Sorry, but evolution is a fact. Natural selection is a likely mechanism but probably not the whole story.

The straw man is in your court as the fossil, anatomical, and biological evidence all point to a catastrophic event that the Bible labels the Flood. I will agree that even "identical" twins display variations. This is what is known as INDIVIDUALITY and UNIQUENESS. And there is evidence that there is variety within every KIND. However, to even suggest that man somehow evolved from a distant ancient slug and that there is plenty of evidence demonstrating some upward progression transcending species of any sort is false. The fact remains that had Darwin known the DNA complexities of what he labeled "simple" single celled organisms, he likely would have re-imagined his view of the subject.

Can you name what fossil, anatomical, and biological evidence point to a catastrophic event that the Bible labels the Flood? Or are you just making stuff up?

The Hiawatha asteroid impact.

Except it didn’t end human life worldwide. Stop reading Genesis literally.

Genesis is a miraculous story but you are saying it was not supernatural but a natural event. Are there any miracles in the Bible that can be read literally? Was the loaves and fishes more of a 'stone soup' event?

 

[Meriweather]

Your god only loves you if you obey and worship him.

Not true. How did you reach that conclusion?

 

[Blues Man]

You also said you don't know which parts are the ones that are merely the musings of mere mortals.

No, I did not say that.

You certainly implied it

I asked you if the 10 commandments were the words of your god and you said you had no way of knowing as you were not there.

If you don't know that how do you know any of the rest of the bible is the word of your god?