Does God Exist?

[Blues Man]

Your god only loves you if you obey and worship him.

Not true. How did you reach that conclusion?

The first 4 commandments

 

[alang1216]

One evidence of God's existence is the Bible itself - its accuracy.

You do know that there are forged texts as well as later edits and additions in the Christian canon?

 

[Hollie]

If my skepticism means that I end up in the Lake of Fire, I'm fine with that. I wouldn't want to go along with such a sour God. He can go fuck Himself.

There you go. Just let it out.

I'm angry because millions of people are living (and dying) believing that they'll find a better world afterwards, and it doesn't exist. And I don't have to prove that it DOESN'T exist. YOU have to prove that it DOES exist. If I claim that an invisible six-foot rabbit hangs out with me, is it up to YOU to prove that my friend Harvey DOESN'T exist? Or is it up to me to prove that Harvey DOES exist?

Isn't it better to be not angry and don't care? What's the word I'm looking for? Oh, yeah -- APATHY. Why not be apathetic to it?

Do you want to hear the best thing I ever heard an atheist say? This was when apologist Dr. William Lane Craig was debating Professor Lawrence Krauss of ASU and author of A Universe from Nothing fame. The reporters asked Krauss what would make him believe in God and he said if the stars realigned themselves to spell out, "I am here," then he would reconsider.

A week later a regular atheist man made the front pages of the SF - Bay Area paper by saying that's not good enough because the people in the Southern hemisphere woud not see it. Furthermore, every atheist in the past, i.e. the dead, present, and future would have to see it. That was really something. From then on, I thought that atheists would get their proof in the Lake of Fire. Pain and suffering could be a strong persuader -- Is Pain And Suffering The Only Way To Convince Atheists That There Is A God. Yet, in 2019 if discovered that God had said "every eye will see" already in his prophecies. This was around 2000 years ago.

"Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen." Revelation 1:7

The dead atheists would rise again and be reunited with their bodies in order to see. Same with those in the present who died. Those in the present and future still living would see it live.

It meant everything will be settled on Earth. I thought if I was an atheist, then that would make me fall down on my face and beg for forgiveness. That would convince me.

You're easily convinced.

 

[Flash]

To me there are only two possibilities for the existence that we all know.

The first possibility is that there is some intelligent design to this universe.

The only other alternative is that the universe magically created itself out of nothing.

The magic theory is so absurd that the first possibility is much more logical.

I'll go with God.

You're wrong. The second alternative isn't that the universe "magically" created itself. We don't know everything about that singularity yet, but scientists are working on it. But rest assured that "magic" had nothing to do with it. But believe in God if that makes you feel better.

First of all there is no such thing as a "singularity" That is one of those words that scientists use that has no real meaning other than something to describe the unexplainable.

You can come up with any hair brain ideas you want but at the end of the day if you don't believe in intelligent design then you believe that the universe created itself out of nothing, which is magic.

 

[Meriweather]

I asked you if the 10 commandments were the words of your god and you said you had no way of knowing as you were not there.

Ah, but then you always want evidence, and there is no physical evidence. Rather than wrangle about that, if you recall, I went to spiritual data--that of living by the Ten Commandments, and that of skipping over one or two. Worked better to follow them. I imagine you skipped over that as well, dismissing it as anecdotal?

 

[Meriweather]

If you don't know that how do you know any of the rest of the bible is the word of your god?

Because I tested that word. Just as I would do with a science experiment. However, the difference between lab and real life, one cannot control all the variables, which is why science cannot accept this as evidence, either.

 

[Hollie]

Saying "God did it" is an easy dodge. Saying how it was done, that takes science.

Saying that the universe created itself out of nothing is even a bigger dodge. There is nothing in our knowledge of Science that say it is possible. In fact the Laws of Physics as we understand them says that it is impossible. That is why the secularit theorists come up with absurd things like "the Laws of Physics didn't exist when the universe was made", and other silly things.

True as I have also posted. And most scientists ignore the Bible - thankfully Galileo and Newton accepted that truth comes from both science and the Bible.

The most common model of Big Bang theory is that our universe began with a singularity with zero dimensions - but most scientists are at a loss to explain why this happened and so they create fanciful theories with no observational evidence - in other words: blind faith.

I have already posted on Isaiah 40:22,26 as it relates to the fine tuned expansion of our universe involving plural forms of God's energy (Hebrew ohnim) such as gravity and dark energy. But I have not addressed the illustration in verse 22 that hints at how the singularity was formed.

Isaiah 40:22
There is One who dwells above the circle* of the earth,+
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers.
He is stretching out the heavens like a fine gauze,
And he spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.+

Most simply scoff at the illustration of a tent - not realizing this illustration hints at both the shape of the universe (is the universe flat like a stretching out flat tentcloth?). But tents have more than one tent cloth.

The sacred "tent of meeting" (tabernacle) in geometric terms is/was a rectangular prism. The hint as to how the singularity was formed is in the fact that the corners of this tent are actually points with zero dimensions.

Personally, I favor a collision of branes model but based on membranes/cloths with only 2 dimensions. If two 2-d branes were to intersect on edge, the intersection point would be a singularity!

“The most common model of Big Bang theory is that our universe began with a singularity with zero dimensions - but most scientists are at a loss to explain why this happened and so they create fanciful theories with no observational evidence - in other words: blind faith.”

That’s actually not true. The “singularity” is a mathematical solution (of sorts) to Einstein’s theory of relativity. It’s really solving the equation until a null solution is reached.

The “singularity” and a “universe from nothing” are actually misconceptions typically pressed by religionists in an attempt to denigrate science. This allows them to maintain their super-magical gods without any evidence.

Any Scientist that you ask will tell you that TBB theory is really nothing more than placeholder to explain the unexplainable.

Nobody can tell us:

What was here before the BB?

Where did the energy for BB come from?

What initiated the BB?

The there is this thingy about how can the whole universe, consisting of trillions of galaxies, be reduced to the size of the head of a pin? Actually, even smaller.

I'm not so sure any scientist that you ask will tell you that TBB theory is really nothing more than placeholder to explain the unexplainable. What scientists have you asked?

To "explain the unexplainable" is an oxymoron. What you're missing is that science provides a mechanism to explore the expansion of the universe and what caused that event to happen. You might not have noticed but it wasn't the religious institutions that placed the Hubble in orbit, built radio telescopes or sent the Explorer spacecraft to distant planets.


Lets pose your questions differently, shall we?

What was here before the BB Gods?

Where did the energy for BB The Gods come from?

What initiated the BB Gods?

You have furthered the common misconception that the BB was a point in space, with all matter on the head of a pin. That's not accurate. Further, the BB was not the beginning of the universe but what came after.

So, you don't agree with scientists who claim our universe began from a singularity with no dimensions? Can you link to scientific evidence for anything you do believe?

To dismiss scientific research by saying the origin of our universe is unexplainable stifles scientific discovery and also ignores what has already been discovered.

To be specific: do you agree that the origin of our universe did not violate the law of conservation of matter and energy (E=Mc^2)? And do you agree that origin did not violate the scientific principle of cause and effect?

The universe beginning from a singularity with no dimensions is not something scientists agree with.

If you presume the universe came into existence as a result of the supernatural hands of the gods, there is no science involved.

 

[Meriweather]

The first 4 commandments

1. Put God first in your life
2. Don't using His name disrespectfully, or expect magic from saying it
3. Rest one day

Sounds like practical advice, not a threat.

 

[LittleNipper]

The question is if the bible is fiction why isn't the god in the bible fiction?

Easy answer. The Bible is a collection of books. Law. Plays. History. Song. Biography. Letters.

There is a play about Abraham Lincoln. There is a play about God. Does being in a play mean not existing?

I can dig up Lincols.

The question is if the bible is fiction why isn't the god in the bible fiction?

Easy answer. The Bible is a collection of books. Law. Plays. History. Song. Biography. Letters.

There is a play about Abraham Lincoln. There is a play about God. Does being in a play mean not existing?

I can see a photo of Lincoln, I can dig up his bones.

MAybe you should worship Abe at least there is actual proof he existed

Do you know that President Lincoln was not always a Believer? Apparently, Lincoln made the soul changing decision around the time he made his now famous Gettysburg Address. He also had a dream where he saw himself lying in state in his coffin. Couldn't a premonition be a way GOD speaks to someone to get their attention? I believe that Lincoln was all the better for his conversion and none the worse.

 

[Blues Man]

If you don't know that how do you know any of the rest of the bible is the word of your god?

Because I tested that word. Just as I would do with a science experiment. However, the difference between lab and real life, one cannot control all the variables, which is why science cannot accept this as evidence, either.

A poor analogy.

And in any experiment no one tries to control all variables which is why a control group is used to compare the results of the test to what would have happened naturally.

The main goal of any experiment is that the results are repeatable.

You really don't know what the results are because you won't know until you're dead and no one who you deemed to be a control in your experiment can come back from the dead to tell you what happened to them.

People have felt the need to create gods to explain what they cannot comprehend.

Humans have worshiped multiple gods in the past and there usually was a god for every type of natural phenomenon.

As we understood these things the gods that used to be worshiped were discarded.

Now most people who worship a god worship just one and this god is there really to help people explain the biggest 2 questions that have ever existed,

Where did we come from and what happens after we die.

The 2 ultimate unknowns.

What happens to the last god if we crack the code to the universe and are able to answer these questions?

 

[Blues Man]

The question is if the bible is fiction why isn't the god in the bible fiction?

Easy answer. The Bible is a collection of books. Law. Plays. History. Song. Biography. Letters.

There is a play about Abraham Lincoln. There is a play about God. Does being in a play mean not existing?

I can dig up Lincols.

The question is if the bible is fiction why isn't the god in the bible fiction?

Easy answer. The Bible is a collection of books. Law. Plays. History. Song. Biography. Letters.

There is a play about Abraham Lincoln. There is a play about God. Does being in a play mean not existing?

I can see a photo of Lincoln, I can dig up his bones.

MAybe you should worship Abe at least there is actual proof he existed

Do you know that President Lincoln was not always a Believer? Apparently, Lincoln made the soul changing decision around the time he made his now famous Gettysburg Address. He also had a dream where he saw himself lying in state in his coffin. Couldn't a premonition be a way GOD speaks to someone to get their attention? I believe that Lincoln was all the better for his conversion and none the worse.

Every man knows he is going to die so it's not a great leap to think a person has imagined himself in a coffin.

 

[Blues Man]

The first 4 commandments

1. Put God first in your life
2. Don't using His name disrespectfully, or expect magic from saying it
3. Rest one day

Sounds like practical advice, not a threat.

Those are only 3

And of you do not follow his orders what happens?

 

[Newtonian]

One evidence of God's existence is the Bible itself - its accuracy.

You do know that there are forged texts as well as later edits and additions in the Christian canon?

Yes, I do. But they are not in my favorite Bible translation, the 1984 reference edition of NW:

Reference Bible (Rbi8) — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

My user namesake, Isaac Newton, did extensive Biblical research - in fact, he wrote more on his Biblical research than his scientific research - here is a good article on that:

Isaac Newton’s Search for God — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

One if his books is on two examples of corruptions of Scripture (aka forged texts) [1 John 5:7; 1 Timothy 3:16] - quoting from the above link concerning 1 John 5:7:

"Using early Church writers, the Greek and Latin manuscripts and the testimony of the first versions of the Bible, Newton proved that the words “in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one,” in support of the Trinity doctrine, did not appear in the original inspired Greek Scriptures. He then traced the way in which the spurious reading crept into the Latin versions, first as a marginal note, and later into the text itself. He showed that it was first taken into a Greek text in 1515 by Cardinal Ximenes on the strength of a late Greek manuscript corrected from the Latin. Finally, Newton considered the sense and context of the verse, concluding, “Thus is the sense plain and natural, and the argument full and strong; but if you insert the testimony of ‘the Three in Heaven’ you interrupt and spoil it.”4"

Reference 4 -
4. An Historical Account of Two Notable Corruptions of Scripture, by Sir Isaac Newton, Edition of 1830, London, p. 60.

 

[Newtonian]

The first 4 commandments

1. Put God first in your life
2. Don't using His name disrespectfully, or expect magic from saying it
3. Rest one day

Sounds like practical advice, not a threat.

And what is God's name, Meriweather? (see Psalms 83:18 KJV)

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

To the believer evidence is everywhere

Because its not evidence. You already believe, and so retrofit it.

 

[Newtonian]

Saying "God did it" is an easy dodge. Saying how it was done, that takes science.

Saying that the universe created itself out of nothing is even a bigger dodge. There is nothing in our knowledge of Science that say it is possible. In fact the Laws of Physics as we understand them says that it is impossible. That is why the secularit theorists come up with absurd things like "the Laws of Physics didn't exist when the universe was made", and other silly things.

True as I have also posted. And most scientists ignore the Bible - thankfully Galileo and Newton accepted that truth comes from both science and the Bible.

The most common model of Big Bang theory is that our universe began with a singularity with zero dimensions - but most scientists are at a loss to explain why this happened and so they create fanciful theories with no observational evidence - in other words: blind faith.

I have already posted on Isaiah 40:22,26 as it relates to the fine tuned expansion of our universe involving plural forms of God's energy (Hebrew ohnim) such as gravity and dark energy. But I have not addressed the illustration in verse 22 that hints at how the singularity was formed.

Isaiah 40:22
There is One who dwells above the circle* of the earth,+
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers.
He is stretching out the heavens like a fine gauze,
And he spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.+

Most simply scoff at the illustration of a tent - not realizing this illustration hints at both the shape of the universe (is the universe flat like a stretching out flat tentcloth?). But tents have more than one tent cloth.

The sacred "tent of meeting" (tabernacle) in geometric terms is/was a rectangular prism. The hint as to how the singularity was formed is in the fact that the corners of this tent are actually points with zero dimensions.

Personally, I favor a collision of branes model but based on membranes/cloths with only 2 dimensions. If two 2-d branes were to intersect on edge, the intersection point would be a singularity!

“The most common model of Big Bang theory is that our universe began with a singularity with zero dimensions - but most scientists are at a loss to explain why this happened and so they create fanciful theories with no observational evidence - in other words: blind faith.”

That’s actually not true. The “singularity” is a mathematical solution (of sorts) to Einstein’s theory of relativity. It’s really solving the equation until a null solution is reached.

The “singularity” and a “universe from nothing” are actually misconceptions typically pressed by religionists in an attempt to denigrate science. This allows them to maintain their super-magical gods without any evidence.

Any Scientist that you ask will tell you that TBB theory is really nothing more than placeholder to explain the unexplainable.

Nobody can tell us:

What was here before the BB?

Where did the energy for BB come from?

What initiated the BB?

The there is this thingy about how can the whole universe, consisting of trillions of galaxies, be reduced to the size of the head of a pin? Actually, even smaller.

I'm not so sure any scientist that you ask will tell you that TBB theory is really nothing more than placeholder to explain the unexplainable. What scientists have you asked?

To "explain the unexplainable" is an oxymoron. What you're missing is that science provides a mechanism to explore the expansion of the universe and what caused that event to happen. You might not have noticed but it wasn't the religious institutions that placed the Hubble in orbit, built radio telescopes or sent the Explorer spacecraft to distant planets.


Lets pose your questions differently, shall we?

What was here before the BB Gods?

Where did the energy for BB The Gods come from?

What initiated the BB Gods?

You have furthered the common misconception that the BB was a point in space, with all matter on the head of a pin. That's not accurate. Further, the BB was not the beginning of the universe but what came after.

So, you don't agree with scientists who claim our universe began from a singularity with no dimensions? Can you link to scientific evidence for anything you do believe?

To dismiss scientific research by saying the origin of our universe is unexplainable stifles scientific discovery and also ignores what has already been discovered.

To be specific: do you agree that the origin of our universe did not violate the law of conservation of matter and energy (E=Mc^2)? And do you agree that origin did not violate the scientific principle of cause and effect?

The universe beginning from a singularity with no dimensions is not something scientists agree with.

If you presume the universe came into existence as a result of the supernatural hands of the gods, there is no science involved.

And your reference to support this?

According to the big bang theory, all the matter in the universe erupted from a singularity. Why didn't all this matter--cheek by jowl as it was--immediately collapse into a black hole?

www.scientificamerican.com

"According to the big bang theory, all the matter in the universe erupted from a singularity. Why didn't all this matter--cheek by jowl as it was--immediately collapse into a black hole?...

In some ways, you can think of the universe as a black hole turned inside out. A black hole is a singularity into which material flows. The universe is a singularity out of which material has flowed. A black hole is surrounded by an event horizon, a surface inside which we cannot see. The universe is surrounded by a cosmological horizon, a surface outside of which we cannot see. (A crucial difference, though, is that the event horizon is fixed whereas the cosmological horizon varies from observer to observer.)"

Of course, there are other theories besides the Big Bang, and other models of the Big Bang. Which theory/model do you prefer?

Oh, and God is the greatest scientist that ever existed - he actually created the laws and properties of our universe:

Job 38:33
Do you know the laws governing the heavens,+
Or can you impose their* authority on the earth?

So how do you think those laws and properties were created/formed/formulated - e.g. E=Mc^2?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You can come up with any hair brain ideas you want but at the end of the day if you don't believe in intelligent design then you believe that the universe created itself out of nothing, which is magic.

You know, this was wrong the first time you said it. It's not getting any more correct with repetition.

 

[Newtonian]

To the believer evidence is everywhere

Because its not evidence. You already believe, and so retrofit it.

Evidence is not evidence. Typical debate tactic. So which evidence is not evidence and why?

 

[ding]

To the believer evidence is everywhere

Because its not evidence. You already believe, and so retrofit it.

Anything which is tangible is evidence of something, Einstein.

 

[ding]

Did you know that the central nervous system of every mammal species got larger over time?

I didn't know that and I'm not sure what it means.

It means that very nature of existence is to create intelligence. It is unavoidable. It is not an accident.

I'd say that something that waited over 4 billion years to happen is hardly unavoidable. We don't even know if it will last. Maybe it is just a random happenstance?

Well we don’t know this is the first occurrence, right?

And unless you are expecting magic, which must be what you seem to be expecting to believe that intelligence created intelligence, then I have no faith idea why you would dismiss it based upon timing.

Do you really believe the organic micro machines of living organisms are happenstance? Have you seen the animations of the assembly line like machinations of these organic machines?