Does it bother you that our entire government is based on forcing people via gunpoint

[taichiliberal]

None of your quotes are from any of the current leadership of the Democratic Party in the last 30 years, you imbecile. Put up or shut up.

That isn't the question you asked, nimrod. You only asked for "leftists."

Oh and did they cheer before or after they actually READ the damned thing? And FYI, the Patriot Act was formulated and signed UNDER GW BUSH, you blithering idiot!

Get your act together, man.

Obama also formulated and signed a new version of the Patriot Act.

And most of on the left don't support Obama either - the PA is just another reason on the growing list. State tyranny is state tyranny, no matter what label you put on it.

Clarification: "Most of the left" does not support Obama on SPECIFIC ISSUES....the continuation of the Patriot Act, half-assed support of fracking, off shore drilling, etc. But then you have the Affordable Healthcare Act and other things that they DO support.

If you want to know what real tyranny is, look to other countries in Asia and the Middle East and parts of Africa...then look at the history of Europe and South America in the last 50 years. That's why calling the Obama administration "tyrannical" is an irrational exaggeration.

 

[taichiliberal]

Did you get that, Kevin? FACTS, goddammit! FACTS. Take that!

If EITHER one of you could honestly answer my questions, I'd be happy.

If I RANDOMLY capitalize different WORDS in a sentence, does IT make my point BETTER?

Regardless, if you want to ask a question that doesn't make a nonsensical assumption that only goes to show your agenda is to "win" an argument, or try to make somebody else look foolish rather than engage in an actual discussion then I'd be more than willing to indulge you.

you're STILL blowing smoke, my intellectually dishonest friend. So let me put an end to your empty rhetoric:

As the chronology of the posts shows, I responded to the subject title by asking what exactly does the author (or anyone who agrees with him, for that matter) feel he is being made to do by "gunpoint" that is so reprehensible and heinous.

The only coherent answer I got was "taxes".

So I pointed out that without taxes and a federal gov't to regulate them, the poster WOULD NOT be able to enjoy all that he takes for granted (road maintenance, food & water quality, consumer product quality protection, medical standards, etc., etc.).

Then some self professed libertarian yahoo whined that they just couldn't stand paying taxes for anyone needing public assistance. I pointed out that WITHOUT taxes for gov't regulation, he would live in a world where slavery and indentured servitude would return, as private enterprise and the "free market" would have total rule. Also, he would be in financial dire straits, as prices for ALL he takes for granted would be at the whim of various companies, as well as his salary (of which negotiation with his boss would become a joke).

So the question stands, the above points stand...unless YOU or your like minded compadres can logically and factually counter such. I'll wait.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

If EITHER one of you could honestly answer my questions, I'd be happy.

If I RANDOMLY capitalize different WORDS in a sentence, does IT make my point BETTER?

Regardless, if you want to ask a question that doesn't make a nonsensical assumption that only goes to show your agenda is to "win" an argument, or try to make somebody else look foolish rather than engage in an actual discussion then I'd be more than willing to indulge you.

you're STILL blowing smoke, my intellectually dishonest friend. So let me put an end to your empty rhetoric:

As the chronology of the posts shows, I responded to the subject title by asking what exactly does the author (or anyone who agrees with him, for that matter) feel he is being made to do by "gunpoint" that is so reprehensible and heinous.

The only coherent answer I got was "taxes".

So I pointed out that without taxes and a federal gov't to regulate them, the poster WOULD NOT be able to enjoy all that he takes for granted (road maintenance, food & water quality, consumer product quality protection, medical standards, etc., etc.).

Then some self professed libertarian yahoo whined that they just couldn't stand paying taxes for anyone needing public assistance. I pointed out that WITHOUT taxes for gov't regulation, he would live in a world where slavery and indentured servitude would return, as private enterprise and the "free market" would have total rule. Also, he would be in financial dire straits, as prices for ALL he takes for granted would be at the whim of various companies, as well as his salary (of which negotiation with his boss would become a joke).

So the question stands, the above points stand...unless YOU or your like minded compadres can logically and factually counter such. I'll wait.

Making ridiculous demagogic assertions does not count as providing facts. Regardless, you're more than welcome to "win" this argument, as I can see that any attempt at further discussion on my part would be a severe waste of time. You're "right," I'm "wrong." Have a pleasant day.

 

[Uncensored2008]

And most of on the left don't support Obama either - the PA is just another reason on the growing list. State tyranny is state tyranny, no matter what label you put on it.

Most on the left blindly follow Obama. Issues they screamed about with Bush are supported now that Obama does them. While the left wailed and gnashed teeth over waterboarding, the same people think the extrajudicial assassination of American citizens is just peachy, since the Messiah® does it.

 

[taichiliberal]

Let's see, the Daily Beast post an editorial by the AUTHOR of the Patriot Act, and you latch onto a website that has been documented to be flawed and fallable to any yahoo with an agenda to alter the material contained within.

First off, Viet D. Dinh is not the author of the USA Patriot act. Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner is credited as the author, with a full legal staff supporting.

Wrong, stupid....It was enacted by the 107th United States Congress and was introduced in the House of Representatives as H.R. 3162 by Frank James Sensenbrenner, Jr. on October 23, 2001

Secondly, to bitch that Wikipedia is "flawed" while quoting the notorious, far left hate site, Dailybeast is beyond ironic.

Call names all you want, but you cannot fault the DOCUMENTED facts that appear on the site, nor is the Daily Beast open to any jackass to "edit" it's content on a daily basis. But like a broken clock, even Wikipedia gets it right once or twice. Here, for your education:

"...he was the chief architect of the USA PATRIOT Act"

"After 9/11, Dinh conducted a comprehensive review of DOJ priorities, policies and practices, and played a key role in developing the USA PATRIOT Act and revising the Attorney General's Guidelines, which govern federal law enforcement activities and national security investigations"

Viet D. Dinh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I swear, just when I think you can't get any dumber, you surprise me.

Now Remember, the AUTHOR of the Patriot Act was NOT Biden.

Look, you're stupid, it's why you're a leftist.

Wow...did you consult an 8th grader for that response?

But try and grasp simple concepts; no one said that Biden wrote the damned thing, what they - including Biden himself, said is that the USA Patriot act is partly BASED on the Omnibus Counterterrorism Act of 1995, which was drafted by Biden.

Once more for the cheap seats....I gave you Congressional record documentation that Biden was ONE of the CO-SPONSORS the OCA of 1995, NOT the sole draftsman, as the neocon/teabagger wingnuts would have you believe.

Biden was a CO-SPONSOR of the Omnibu-Counterterrorism Act of 1995....one of the reasons why I didn't vote for Slick Willy in his second term, and why I'm a registered Independent.

Here, for your education:

Which is the FOUNDATION of the Patriot act. And why avoid Clinton, when it is Obama that chose old plugs as his VP?

Sorry, but your original claim was that Biden was the SOLE author/draftsman for the core points of the Patriot Act. That was a not true, as the FACTS show.

The record shows Dinh was the main architect of the Patriot Act under Bush.

And who said I avoided Clinton? I clearly stated that one of the reasons I didn't vote for his second term was things like the OCT of 1995. WTF is the matter with you? Can't you read?

 

[taichiliberal]

Conclusions drawn from a flawed premise don't bother us either. Genius.

I point to FACTS, my intellectually cowering libertarian....FACTS that reduce the premise of the subject title of this thread to the rubbish that it is. Neither YOU or your like minded compadres can honestly answer the questions I put forth...not surprising. But do keep dodging and blowing smoke, as all libertarians are want to do when properly challenged.

"And please point out the society in any part of the world throughout history where each individual citizen or subject were allowed to do whatever the hell they want without respect to or consideration of their neighbors and fellow citizens/subjects?" - You

Since that is a flawed premise, none of your conclusions can possibly be called "facts."

All one has to do is see what prompted that question to know that YOU are intellectually dishonest in your quest to defend libertarian lunkheads. Remember, it's the libertarians who are always on about as little to no federal gov't interference in their lives, while letting the "free market" and private enterprise rule the day. Yeah, Somalia is a prime example of that mindset.

You don't have the guts to link the post to the quotes you take out of context, do ya bunky? Not surprising.

My questions and statements stand.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Sorry, but your original claim was that Biden was the SOLE author/draftsman for the core points of the Patriot Act. That was a not true, as the FACTS show.

The fuck you say.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...rcing-people-via-gunpoint-27.html#post6825591

The record shows Dinh was the main architect of the Patriot Act under Bush.

Dinh was a DOJ Legal consultant, that is a far cry from "architect." You are desperately attempting to recast history in support of your far left agenda.

And who said I avoided Clinton?

You did.

Biden was a CO-SPONSOR of the Omnibu-Counterterrorism Act of 1995....one of the reasons why I didn't vote for Slick Willy in his second term, and why I'm a registered Independent.

Are you on drugs?

I clearly stated that one of the reasons I didn't vote for his second term was things like the OCT of 1995. WTF is the matter with you? Can't you read?

And in your alleged mind, that isn't avoiding?

So why did you not hold your Messiah® to the same standard, after all, he picked Plugs as his VP?

 

[taichiliberal]

If I RANDOMLY capitalize different WORDS in a sentence, does IT make my point BETTER?

Regardless, if you want to ask a question that doesn't make a nonsensical assumption that only goes to show your agenda is to "win" an argument, or try to make somebody else look foolish rather than engage in an actual discussion then I'd be more than willing to indulge you.

you're STILL blowing smoke, my intellectually dishonest friend. So let me put an end to your empty rhetoric:

As the chronology of the posts shows, I responded to the subject title by asking what exactly does the author (or anyone who agrees with him, for that matter) feel he is being made to do by "gunpoint" that is so reprehensible and heinous.

The only coherent answer I got was "taxes".

So I pointed out that without taxes and a federal gov't to regulate them, the poster WOULD NOT be able to enjoy all that he takes for granted (road maintenance, food & water quality, consumer product quality protection, medical standards, etc., etc.).

Then some self professed libertarian yahoo whined that they just couldn't stand paying taxes for anyone needing public assistance. I pointed out that WITHOUT taxes for gov't regulation, he would live in a world where slavery and indentured servitude would return, as private enterprise and the "free market" would have total rule. Also, he would be in financial dire straits, as prices for ALL he takes for granted would be at the whim of various companies, as well as his salary (of which negotiation with his boss would become a joke).

So the question stands, the above points stand...unless YOU or your like minded compadres can logically and factually counter such. I'll wait.

Making ridiculous demagogic assertions does not count as providing facts. Regardless, you're more than welcome to "win" this argument, as I can see that any attempt at further discussion on my part would be a severe waste of time. You're "right," I'm "wrong." Have a pleasant day.

Notice, dear reader that Kevin Kennedy NEVER responds directly to what is being posted...instead we just get generalized personal attacks.

Bottom line: Kevin Kennedy just cannot defend his ideology in a logical and/or fact based manner. All one has to do is use a little general history and analyze his libertarian laziness to it's logical conclusion to see the intellectual dishonesty of his mindset. I glad Kevin ran off, because quite frankly I'm growing tired of making a fool of his dodges as I make specific points to what is being presented.

 

[taichiliberal]

Sorry, but your original claim was that Biden was the SOLE author/draftsman for the core points of the Patriot Act. That was a not true, as the FACTS show.

The fuck you say.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...rcing-people-via-gunpoint-27.html#post6825591


I do say, you fucking moron, because the CONGRESSSIONAL RECORD that I linked earlier shows Biden to be ONE OF SEVERAL people involved. Hubris on Biden's part according to the (alleged) New Republic quote nonwithstanding.

The record shows Dinh was the main architect of the Patriot Act under Bush.

Dinh was a DOJ Legal consultant, that is a far cry from "architect." You are desperately attempting to recast history in support of your far left agenda.

Stop lying....because your sainted Wikipedia says different, as the quote I put forth showed. Come, come you Uncensored idiot from 2008....either you believe what Wikipedia tells you or you don't.

Quote:
And who said I avoided Clinton?

You did.

And you can provide the link to that quote? Because if you can't, that makes YOU a LIAR. I'll wait.

Biden was a CO-SPONSOR of the Omnibu-Counterterrorism Act of 1995....one of the reasons why I didn't vote for Slick Willy in his second term, and why I'm a registered Independent.

Are you on drugs?

Translation: Our Uncensored idiot of 2008 doesn't have the stones to deal with being proven wrong, much less the honesty to acknowledge what has previously transpired on this thread.

I clearly stated that one of the reasons I didn't vote for his second term was things like the OCT of 1995. WTF is the matter with you? Can't you read?

And in your alleged mind, that isn't avoiding?

Avoiding what, you blithering idiot? All I'm doing is deconstructing yet another neocon/teabagger exaggeration that solely blames Biden for something Bush and Dinh put forth. Remember, I asked did the Dems whine before or after they signed the damned thing without reading it? If you don't understand, get an adult to explain that is indicating that I don't hold the Dems above reproach.

So why did you not hold your Messiah® to the same standard, after all, he picked Plugs as his VP?

First off, the racist "messiah" dig was trashed by the American people of all races, creeds and colors and religions in the 2008 and 2012 elections....which shows what an irrational, stubborn POS you are. Secondly, who said I didn't criticize Obama for NOT putting stop gaps on the Patriot Act? Since neither YOU or any other neocon/teabagger/libertarian yahoo asked, you shouldn't assume.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I do say, you fucking moron, because the CONGRESSSIONAL RECORD that I linked earlier shows Biden to be ONE OF SEVERAL people involved. Hubris on Biden's part according to the (alleged) New Republic quote nonwithstanding.

Shit fer brains, the link demonstrates that I made no such claim. You built a straw man, assigned it to me, then jousted with windmills.

Now you think you are some sort of hero.

And you wonder why leftism is viewed as a mental disease...

Stop lying....because your sainted Wikipedia says different, as the quote I put forth showed. Come, come you Uncensored idiot from 2008....either you believe what Wikipedia tells you or you don't.

The issue isn't Wiki, sparky - the issue is you.

Translation: Our Uncensored idiot of 2008 doesn't have the stones to deal with being proven wrong, much less the honesty to acknowledge what has previously transpired on this thread.

So that would be a ""yes?" You are on drugs?

First off, the racist "messiah" dig was trashed by the American people of all races, creeds and colors and religions in the 2008 and 2012 elections....

Ah, pointing out you're cult like in devotion is "racist."

Of course it is, so is opposing anything Dear Leader commands.

which shows what an irrational, stubborn POS you are. Secondly, who said I didn't criticize Obama for NOT putting stop gaps on the Patriot Act?

Criticizing Obama is racist. Are you a racist, sparky?

Since neither YOU or any other neocon/teabagger/libertarian yahoo asked, you shouldn't assume.

Don't be so determined to demonstrate what a fucktard you are. You are one of the most outspoken Obamunists in the forum. The question isn't whether you voted for him last November, but how many times and in how many precincts?

Besides, voting against Obama is racist.

 

[dblack]

you're STILL blowing smoke, my intellectually dishonest friend. So let me put an end to your empty rhetoric:

As the chronology of the posts shows, I responded to the subject title by asking what exactly does the author (or anyone who agrees with him, for that matter) feel he is being made to do by "gunpoint" that is so reprehensible and heinous.

The only coherent answer I got was "taxes".

So I pointed out that without taxes and a federal gov't to regulate them, the poster WOULD NOT be able to enjoy all that he takes for granted (road maintenance, food & water quality, consumer product quality protection, medical standards, etc., etc.).

Then some self professed libertarian yahoo whined that they just couldn't stand paying taxes for anyone needing public assistance. I pointed out that WITHOUT taxes for gov't regulation, he would live in a world where slavery and indentured servitude would return, as private enterprise and the "free market" would have total rule. Also, he would be in financial dire straits, as prices for ALL he takes for granted would be at the whim of various companies, as well as his salary (of which negotiation with his boss would become a joke).

So the question stands, the above points stand...unless YOU or your like minded compadres can logically and factually counter such. I'll wait.

Making ridiculous demagogic assertions does not count as providing facts. Regardless, you're more than welcome to "win" this argument, as I can see that any attempt at further discussion on my part would be a severe waste of time. You're "right," I'm "wrong." Have a pleasant day.

Notice, dear reader that Kevin Kennedy NEVER responds directly to what is being posted...instead we just get generalized personal attacks.

Bottom line: Kevin Kennedy just cannot defend his ideology in a logical and/or fact based manner. All one has to do is use a little general history and analyze his libertarian laziness to it's logical conclusion to see the intellectual dishonesty of his mindset. I glad Kevin ran off, because quite frankly I'm growing tired of making a fool of his dodges as I make specific points to what is being presented.

Iron E