Does Spanking kids Work?

[Pogo]

Spanking works just fine.

... says the poster who also advocates that pot smokers be shot in the face.

Coincidence? I think not.

 

[GISMYS]

(Prov 22:15 NLT) A youngster’s heart is filled with foolishness, but physical discipline will drive it far away. IF YOU LOVE YOUR CHILD YOU WILL DISCIPLINE HIM.

 

[oldfart]

There's a major difference between spanking and beating.

When I was a young cub, I'd be spanked for attacking kids, stealing stuff, disrespecting people, endangering others/myself, etc, etc, etc. Getting my rump swatted helped me, hah, understand and remember that these things were not acceptable. Being young and immature with ADHD, I didn't give a darn about being "reasoned" with or chided. It didn't work. Spanking got the message through loud and clear. My father's not perfect, but I do thank him for spanking me because it taught me to not do certain things, and has kept me from getting in trouble with the law.

I will love my future children, and I fully intend to spank them in order to help them survive and thrive in society.

Gotta say, I find that kind of thinking completely bizarre. I will never forgive my father for beating me, ever, would never do it to anyone else, and it was in no way necessary when it happened. It taught nothing but rage. To crawl to one's knees and go "yes sir may I have another" after that is just ..... bizarre. There's no other word.

This opens onto another reason I discourage physical punishment. I have seen way to many children and adults who learned a lesson that if they were willing to endure the punishment, then the behavior that led to it was somehow OK. It's "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time" turned on its head. It's great for training a "tough guy" mentality, which is why we see it used more with boys, but after a while they often conclude they can "get away" with anything if they are willing to accept the punishment. It's not a big step from there to sociopathic behavior.

And this logic parents can be teaching applies both to brutal escalating punishment and to much more moderate punishment. It's not the degree that matters; it's the unintended message.

 

[GISMYS]

There's a major difference between spanking and beating.

When I was a young cub, I'd be spanked for attacking kids, stealing stuff, disrespecting people, endangering others/myself, etc, etc, etc. Getting my rump swatted helped me, hah, understand and remember that these things were not acceptable. Being young and immature with ADHD, I didn't give a darn about being "reasoned" with or chided. It didn't work. Spanking got the message through loud and clear. My father's not perfect, but I do thank him for spanking me because it taught me to not do certain things, and has kept me from getting in trouble with the law.

I will love my future children, and I fully intend to spank them in order to help them survive and thrive in society.

Gotta say, I find that kind of thinking completely bizarre. I will never forgive my father for beating me, ever, would never do it to anyone else, and it was in no way necessary when it happened. It taught nothing but rage. To crawl to one's knees and go "yes sir may I have another" after that is just ..... bizarre. There's no other word.

This opens onto another reason I discourage physical punishment. I have seen way to many children and adults who learned a lesson that if they were willing to endure the punishment, then the behavior that led to it was somehow OK. It's "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time" turned on its head. It's great for training a "tough guy" mentality, which is why we see it used more with boys, but after a while they often conclude they can "get away" with anything if they are willing to accept the punishment. It's not a big step from there to sociopathic behavior.

And this logic parents can be teaching applies both to brutal escalating punishment and to much more moderate punishment. It's not the degree that matters; it's the unintended message.

Do you really know more than GOD abouty children????? Prov 22:15 NLT) A youngster’s heart is filled with foolishness, but physical discipline will drive it far away. IF YOU LOVE YOUR CHILD YOU WILL DISCIPLINE HIM.

 

[Pogo]

Spare us the endless bible babble, K? This is real world stuff. Thank you.

 

[GISMYS]

Spare us the endless bible babble, K? This is real world stuff. Thank you.

now we see the real problem,=ignorant ""parents""===Prov 22:15 NLT) A youngster’s heart is filled with foolishness, but physical discipline will drive it far away. IF YOU LOVE YOUR CHILD YOU WILL DISCIPLINE HIM.

 

[Asclepias]

Gotta say, I find that kind of thinking completely bizarre. I will never forgive my father for beating me, ever, would never do it to anyone else, and it was in no way necessary when it happened. It taught nothing but rage. To crawl to one's knees and go "yes sir may I have another" after that is just ..... bizarre. There's no other word.

This opens onto another reason I discourage physical punishment. I have seen way to many children and adults who learned a lesson that if they were willing to endure the punishment, then the behavior that led to it was somehow OK. It's "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time" turned on its head. It's great for training a "tough guy" mentality, which is why we see it used more with boys, but after a while they often conclude they can "get away" with anything if they are willing to accept the punishment. It's not a big step from there to sociopathic behavior.

And this logic parents can be teaching applies both to brutal escalating punishment and to much more moderate punishment. It's not the degree that matters; it's the unintended message.

Do you really know more than GOD abouty children????? Prov 22:15 NLT) A youngster’s heart is filled with foolishness, but physical discipline will drive it far away. IF YOU LOVE YOUR CHILD YOU WILL DISCIPLINE HIM.

That book was written by humans not God.

 

[GISMYS]

This opens onto another reason I discourage physical punishment. I have seen way to many children and adults who learned a lesson that if they were willing to endure the punishment, then the behavior that led to it was somehow OK. It's "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time" turned on its head. It's great for training a "tough guy" mentality, which is why we see it used more with boys, but after a while they often conclude they can "get away" with anything if they are willing to accept the punishment. It's not a big step from there to sociopathic behavior.

And this logic parents can be teaching applies both to brutal escalating punishment and to much more moderate punishment. It's not the degree that matters; it's the unintended message.

Do you really know more than GOD abouty children????? Prov 22:15 NLT) A youngster’s heart is filled with foolishness, but physical discipline will drive it far away. IF YOU LOVE YOUR CHILD YOU WILL DISCIPLINE HIM.

That book was written by humans not God.

wow!!! more of your ignorance!!!!------------------------------------------all scripture is inspired (God breathed) by God!!!!

 

[Pogo]

There's a solution. Instead of spanking or whatever, send GISMYS to the kid to ramble on and on and on and on and on and on incessantly from the Babble.
Might be cruel and unusual punishment but at least it's not violence.

 

[GISMYS]

There's a solution. Instead of spanking or whatever, send GISMYS to the kid to ramble on and on and on incessantly from the Babble.
Might be cruel and unusual punishment but at least it's not violence.

Be a real parent=follow God's instruction or visit your child in jail or see him dead!!! your choice!!!===Prov 22:15 NLT) A youngster’s heart is filled with foolishness, but physical discipline will drive it far away. IF YOU LOVE YOUR CHILD YOU WILL DISCIPLINE HIM.

 

[Asclepias]

Do you really know more than GOD abouty children????? Prov 22:15 NLT) A youngster’s heart is filled with foolishness, but physical discipline will drive it far away. IF YOU LOVE YOUR CHILD YOU WILL DISCIPLINE HIM.

That book was written by humans not God.

wow!!! more of your ignorance!!!!------------------------------------------all scripture is inspired (God breathed) by God!!!!

Your religion is a knock off of the Egyptian fable of Ausar, Auset, and Heru. They predate Christianity by thousands of years. Go look it up if you doubt me.

 

[GISMYS]

That book was written by humans not God.

wow!!! more of your ignorance!!!!------------------------------------------all scripture is inspired (God breathed) by God!!!!

Your religion is a knock off of the Egyptian fable of Ausar, Auset, and Heru. They predate Christianity by thousands of years. Go look it up if you doubt me.

Why come here and show the message board your ignorance???? GOD AND GOD'S WORD IS ETERNAL, GOD is outside time!!

 

[Pogo]

That book was written by humans not God.

wow!!! more of your ignorance!!!!------------------------------------------all scripture is inspired (God breathed) by God!!!!

Your religion is a knock off of the Egyptian fable of Ausar, Auset, and Heru. They predate Christianity by thousands of years. Go look it up if you doubt me.

True but don't let him hijack the thread. Do it in the religion forum.

 

[Asclepias]

wow!!! more of your ignorance!!!!------------------------------------------all scripture is inspired (God breathed) by God!!!!

Your religion is a knock off of the Egyptian fable of Ausar, Auset, and Heru. They predate Christianity by thousands of years. Go look it up if you doubt me.

Why come here and show the message board your ignorance???? GOD AND GOD'S WORD IS ETERNAL, GOD is outside time!!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yK3EdnC9Vs]Hidden History of The Nile - Religious Evolution & The Holy Trinity - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Montrovant]

I can only speak to where my people came from. Never been to Somalia or Kenya. The ones I know over here dont beat their kids either.

If you can only speak to where your people came from (and I'm not sure how you get that from visiting, but I'll pass that) why did you start by claiming to speak for black people?

Because I am Black and I know a lot about African History and culture. I know that beating kids was just one of the hangovers from slavery.

So whites don't beat their kids? Or they only have done it when they or their ancestors were slaves? I don't see how you can know that parents beating their children is something that only came about as a result of slavery, particularly US slavery.

I'm white. I'd never claim to know whether whites beat their children or not based on my own racial makeup. Why do you think your being black gives you insight into the practices of cultures other than your own?

I'm not sure where you're getting your information from. I'm very curious to hear, actually. Have there been a lot of studies and surveys done in the distant past about parents beating their children, and the answers given put in modern context?

 

[Montrovant]

Spanking sends a message. The message is that if you are bigger than someone else, it is OK to enforce your will on them by inducing physical pain. In short, this is how bullies are born. It is also a fact that those who are victims of physical abiuse as a child tend to abuse children themselves as they grow up.

That ^^ right there.

As I said before, by that logic all parental discipline sends the message that if you are bigger than someone else, it is OK to enforce your will on them. Whether the method is physical pain or emotional pain, the message remains. Should parents never discipline then?

More, I'm pretty sure the 4 year old I nanny is not coming to that sort of conclusion based on the very occasional swat to the behind. I believe it's likely that, at least until very recently perhaps, most children were spanked at some point. It's just a common form of parental discipline in this country. Did those children all grow up believing that it is ok to cause physical pain if you are bigger than someone?

 

[Pogo]

Spanking sends a message. The message is that if you are bigger than someone else, it is OK to enforce your will on them by inducing physical pain. In short, this is how bullies are born. It is also a fact that those who are victims of physical abiuse as a child tend to abuse children themselves as they grow up.

That ^^ right there.

As I said before, by that logic all parental discipline sends the message that if you are bigger than someone else, it is OK to enforce your will on them. Whether the method is physical pain or emotional pain, the message remains. Should parents never discipline then?

The conclusion doesn't follow. Nothing about disciplining with emotional or other non-physical methods requires owning greater physical force. Beating does. If you weren't bigger/stronger than the other person, you couldn't beat him because he'll beat you back.

More, I'm pretty sure the 4 year old I nanny is not coming to that sort of conclusion based on the very occasional swat to the behind. I believe it's likely that, at least until very recently perhaps, most children were spanked at some point. It's just a common form of parental discipline in this country. Did those children all grow up believing that it is ok to cause physical pain if you are bigger than someone?

Obviously, that's the message. Just look around -- we're a society swimming in violence. Some of us get past that message, others still struggle with it. Some never reconcile.
It might be better if such a message wasn't propagated in the first place. This could be step one.

As for "common", hey it used to be common to bleed people with illnesses too. George Washington died from it. Sometimes we humans have to stop and take stock of what's "always been done this way" and decide, "this is fucked up".

 

[asterism]

It's my impression that many of those who are adamantly opposed to spanking, who equate it to beating children, etc. were themselves abused and beaten as children. That makes such an opinion understandable, but it does make me wonder about the possible differences in reasoning between those who were abused and those who were not that think any form of spanking is wrong.

OK, since I stated that I did not believe all physical punishment rose to the level of child abuse, but that I felt that physical punishment was not necessary, I am not in the "many of those" category. But I find it interesting that those defending physical punishment take one of two positions. One is that spanking is rare, almost symbolic, never delivered in anger, and is discontinued by age six or seven. I find this unobjectionable.

The other position is a rigid unwillingness to believe that children raised without physical punishment could ever turn out OK. This really implies and often is used to justify escalating violence. If a little slap on the behind doesn't work, and you don't want Suzy to become a shiftless lazy undisciplined child, so the reasoning goes, it's time for the paddle. If you accept the premise that physical punishment is unavoidable and the only solution when confronted with willful disobedience, then I think the conclusion of escalating violence is inevitable.

Some posters seem to realize this and don't want to go there. For them I ask, "If spanking doesn't work, and you don't want to escalate, what do you do? And why, if that works, don't you do it instead of spanking in the first place?"

Of course there are plenty of individuals, families, and societies that raise children without much physical punishment at home, in schools, and anywhere else. America is the anomaly in many ways. So why the need to deny an obvious reality? I posit that those defending physical punishment simply can't admit that any other way could ever work for anyone, because to admit it is to admit their actions were unnecessary.

So if you want to use limited physical punishment in your childrearing, that's one thing. But to claim that somehow everyone who doesn't must be lying or produce worthless children is simple self-delusion, and a pathetic one at that.

I'll answer this even though I fall into the category you listed as "unobjectionable."

If spanking doesn't work (due to the kid being THAT hard-headed or that spanking just doesn't work on the kid) then things must change fundamentally. Kid won't keep the fork out of the light socket even after a spanking? Cut the power to his room and use battery-powered lights. Kid won't stay away from the stove? He's locked in the bedroom when anyone is cooking. Kid won't stop eating dog shit? Keep her inside. Kid won't stop messing with the dog? Get rid of the dog.

In all of those cases the reason to try spanking is because it so often works without having to rearrange entire lifestyles, and because when spanking is effective it is indeed rare. Long time-outs, weeks of time in solitary - or worse weeks of time with direct adult micromanagement and correction can be psychologically damaging. A proper swat on the butt isn't. The key is to not do it first and not do it if it doesn't immediately work.

I agree that not all nor even most kids need to be spanked, I've got one of those. But there are a shit-ton of kids that have never been spanked and really need to. It'd fix them right up if done correctly.

 

[asterism]

I can only speak to where my people came from. Never been to Somalia or Kenya. The ones I know over here dont beat their kids either.

If you can only speak to where your people came from (and I'm not sure how you get that from visiting, but I'll pass that) why did you start by claiming to speak for black people?

Because I am Black and I know a lot about African History and culture. I know that beating kids was just one of the hangovers from slavery.

But it's not.

 

[asterism]

There's a major difference between spanking and beating.

When I was a young cub, I'd be spanked for attacking kids, stealing stuff, disrespecting people, endangering others/myself, etc, etc, etc. Getting my rump swatted helped me, hah, understand and remember that these things were not acceptable. Being young and immature with ADHD, I didn't give a darn about being "reasoned" with or chided. It didn't work. Spanking got the message through loud and clear. My father's not perfect, but I do thank him for spanking me because it taught me to not do certain things, and has kept me from getting in trouble with the law.

I will love my future children, and I fully intend to spank them in order to help them survive and thrive in society.

Gotta say, I find that kind of thinking completely bizarre. I will never forgive my father for beating me, ever, would never do it to anyone else, and it was in no way necessary when it happened. It taught nothing but rage. To crawl to one's knees and go "yes sir may I have another" after that is just ..... bizarre. There's no other word.

This opens onto another reason I discourage physical punishment. I have seen way to many children and adults who learned a lesson that if they were willing to endure the punishment, then the behavior that led to it was somehow OK. It's "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time" turned on its head. It's great for training a "tough guy" mentality, which is why we see it used more with boys, but after a while they often conclude they can "get away" with anything if they are willing to accept the punishment. It's not a big step from there to sociopathic behavior.

And this logic parents can be teaching applies both to brutal escalating punishment and to much more moderate punishment. It's not the degree that matters; it's the unintended message.

That's why it's good to have more than one form of punishment and to keep the goal in mind - to teach the kids how to make decisions for themselves.

My oldest daughter still remembers the time I said I was counting to five and said, "No TV for a month" on "two."

"Three, four, five. What? I didn't tell you when I'd take the TV away, I told you to stop yelling and that I was counting to five." That got her attention.

Now I use that cell phone as a means to teach her. She REALLY hates losing that. Soon I'll get her addicted to something else, car keys.