Does Spanking kids Work?

[asterism]

Spare us the endless bible babble, K? This is real world stuff. Thank you.

now we see the real problem,=ignorant ""parents""===Prov 22:15 NLT) A youngster’s heart is filled with foolishness, but physical discipline will drive it far away. IF YOU LOVE YOUR CHILD YOU WILL DISCIPLINE HIM.

Physical discipline does not always mean spanking. I have my son run laps to get his Roblox back. Another daughter has to pull weeds to get her Roku back.

 

[Asclepias]

If you can only speak to where your people came from (and I'm not sure how you get that from visiting, but I'll pass that) why did you start by claiming to speak for black people?

Because I am Black and I know a lot about African History and culture. I know that beating kids was just one of the hangovers from slavery.

So whites don't beat their kids? Or they only have done it when they or their ancestors were slaves? I don't see how you can know that parents beating their children is something that only came about as a result of slavery, particularly US slavery.

I'm white. I'd never claim to know whether whites beat their children or not based on my own racial makeup. Why do you think your being black gives you insight into the practices of cultures other than your own?

I'm not sure where you're getting your information from. I'm very curious to hear, actually. Have there been a lot of studies and surveys done in the distant past about parents beating their children, and the answers given put in modern context?

Couple of things. I am talking in general. I dont know every single African or African American. Surely you understand this. However, being Black I am privy to things it would take you a lifetime to understand if you are not Black. White people most definitely beat their kids. As I said this behavior came about via slavery and the particular pathology is something Black people learned from white slave drivers . It was a power struggle and beatings were meant to intimidate and control Blacks. If you were ever privy to an episode of Black people "whipping" their children you would see that same mentality and language reflected. It doesn't take a genius to see the parallels as a lay person and realize its handed down. I have also taken classes back in college and it only reinforced what my mother and grandmother told me about how it was handed down from slavery. There are some books on it. I recall one entitled Black Rage. I forgot the author. I'm sure there are dozens of studies if you google it.

Beating Black Children = A SLAVE TRADITION = Racism/White Supremacy | Racism Is White Supremacy

 

[Asclepias]

If you can only speak to where your people came from (and I'm not sure how you get that from visiting, but I'll pass that) why did you start by claiming to speak for black people?

Because I am Black and I know a lot about African History and culture. I know that beating kids was just one of the hangovers from slavery.

But it's not.

Yes but it is. Just because you are not aware of it doesnt make you right. I am aware of it.

 

[Chaussette]

Gotta say, I find that kind of thinking completely bizarre. I will never forgive my father for beating me, ever, would never do it to anyone else, and it was in no way necessary when it happened. It taught nothing but rage. To crawl to one's knees and go "yes sir may I have another" after that is just ..... bizarre. There's no other word.

This opens onto another reason I discourage physical punishment. I have seen way to many children and adults who learned a lesson that if they were willing to endure the punishment, then the behavior that led to it was somehow OK. It's "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time" turned on its head. It's great for training a "tough guy" mentality, which is why we see it used more with boys, but after a while they often conclude they can "get away" with anything if they are willing to accept the punishment. It's not a big step from there to sociopathic behavior.

And this logic parents can be teaching applies both to brutal escalating punishment and to much more moderate punishment. It's not the degree that matters; it's the unintended message.

Do you really know more than GOD abouty children????? Prov 22:15 NLT) A youngster’s heart is filled with foolishness, but physical discipline will drive it far away. IF YOU LOVE YOUR CHILD YOU WILL DISCIPLINE HIM.

So now god wants you to beat your child. Geez, will your stupidities quoting a book never end?

 

[FA_Q2]

That ^^ right there.

As I said before, by that logic all parental discipline sends the message that if you are bigger than someone else, it is OK to enforce your will on them. Whether the method is physical pain or emotional pain, the message remains. Should parents never discipline then?

The conclusion doesn't follow. Nothing about disciplining with emotional or other non-physical methods requires owning greater physical force. Beating does. If you weren't bigger/stronger than the other person, you couldn't beat him because he'll beat you back.

More, I'm pretty sure the 4 year old I nanny is not coming to that sort of conclusion based on the very occasional swat to the behind. I believe it's likely that, at least until very recently perhaps, most children were spanked at some point. It's just a common form of parental discipline in this country. Did those children all grow up believing that it is ok to cause physical pain if you are bigger than someone?

Obviously, that's the message. Just look around -- we're a society swimming in violence. Some of us get past that message, others still struggle with it. Some never reconcile.
It might be better if such a message wasn't propagated in the first place. This could be step one.

As for "common", hey it used to be common to bleed people with illnesses too. George Washington died from it. Sometimes we humans have to stop and take stock of what's "always been done this way" and decide, "this is fucked up".

Such a blanket statement is rather inane though. That is not the only message that spanking can send and I think that declaring it so is completely off base. I have spanked my eldest three times and physical punishments do have their place though I don’t see many uses for term.

All three of those times were in direct relation to violent behavior – two to others and one in general while throwing a fit that would not be contained. The message is clear to him – violence begets violence and it does not end well for him.

Further, as pointed out through this thread, children are not of the same mold. They do not react the same to given discipline or reward. To state blankly that spanking leads to X is to completely gloss over this fact. Limiting a parent’s toolkit (other than abuse) without any knowledge of the child itself is asinine to say the least. I don’t pretend to know what is best for other parents and their children because I am well aware of the fact that I do NOT know what is best. I know that I don’t need to spank my youngest. I also know that my eldest needs something extra at times. They are each different and require different disciplinary actions. If that is so obvious within the same household within brothers I can only imagine how different others children may or may not be.

 

[Agit8r]

Corporal punishment likely made sense in a society that punished relatively minor crimes with death. If it made the child a timid and submissive subject it might well have kept them alive.

In a society which demands self-governance, it is poorly suited.

 

[Iceweasel]

The other position is a rigid unwillingness to believe that children raised without physical punishment could ever turn out OK.

Who said that? The point was that some kids need it sometimes.

Some posters seem to realize this and don't want to go there. For them I ask, "If spanking doesn't work, and you don't want to escalate, what do you do? And why, if that works, don't you do it instead of spanking in the first place?"

That made no sense. A spanking probably won't instantly turn the child into a model citizen. You could use your argument about any form of punishment. What do you mean "if it doesn't work"? Growing up is a process, it doesn't happen in a day.

I posit that those defending physical punishment simply can't admit that any other way could ever work for anyone, because to admit it is to admit their actions were unnecessary.

I posit that kids are more undisciplined than ever so your theory is a bunch of bull.

So if you want to use limited physical punishment in your childrearing, that's one thing. But to claim that somehow everyone who doesn't must be lying or produce worthless children is simple self-delusion, and a pathetic one at that.

Looks like you picked an extreme view to argue with, although I must have missed the individual that said that.

 

[Asclepias]

The other position is a rigid unwillingness to believe that children raised without physical punishment could ever turn out OK.

Who said that? The point was that some kids need it sometimes.

Some posters seem to realize this and don't want to go there. For them I ask, "If spanking doesn't work, and you don't want to escalate, what do you do? And why, if that works, don't you do it instead of spanking in the first place?"

That made no sense. A spanking probably won't instantly turn the child into a model citizen. You could use your argument about any form of punishment. What do you mean "if it doesn't work"? Growing up is a process, it doesn't happen in a day.

I posit that those defending physical punishment simply can't admit that any other way could ever work for anyone, because to admit it is to admit their actions were unnecessary.

I posit that kids are more undisciplined than ever so your theory is a bunch of bull.

So if you want to use limited physical punishment in your childrearing, that's one thing. But to claim that somehow everyone who doesn't must be lying or produce worthless children is simple self-delusion, and a pathetic one at that.

Looks like you picked an extreme view to argue with, although I must have missed the individual that said that.

No kid needs to be spanked or beat. You just need to release your frustration at your inability to handle the situation. Stop being lazy and parent.

The post makes complete sense. If beating or spanking is your first resort you have nowhere to go from there. If a child is willful you will not break them with physical punishment. It will only serve to make them mean and or sneaky.

Kids today are undisciplined because they are not taught respect for themselves and others. You dont have to beat them to teach them respect. Remember your job is teach your child to grow up and be a productive adult. Your job is not to intimidate bully them or be their best friend. Some people let their kids run wild with no restrictions or punishment. Others physically abuse them. Both methods are wrong.

 

[Iceweasel]

No kid needs to be spanked or beat. You just need to release your frustration at your inability to handle the situation. Stop being lazy and parent.

Stop being a retard. Your inability to distinguish between spanking and beat isn't someone elses fault.

The post makes complete sense. If beating or spanking is your first resort you have nowhere to go from there. If a child is willful you will not break them with physical punishment. It will only serve to make them mean and or sneaky.

Except that it's been going on since the dawn of man. So your opinion can be dismissed for what it is.

Kids today are undisciplined because they are not taught respect for themselves and others. You dont have to beat them to teach them respect. Remember your job is teach your child to grow up and be a productive adult. Your job is not to intimidate bully them or be their best friend. Some people let their kids run wild with no restrictions or punishment. Others physically abuse them. Both methods are wrong.

Sounds a lot like you weren't spanked. Spoiled, smug, self righteous, etc. XXX XXXXX All the signs of the undisciplined child.

 

[candycorn]

This something that has interest me for quite awhile now. Since I was spanked as a kid when I did wrong and for the most part I came out fine other than my Depression that I still haven't kicked out of.

But for the most part a sane human being. But new this new data of people who spank their kids for the most part do not do well in schools and are more aggressive is this old school way of discipline hurting are kids this the question I ask you guys here.

Do Not Hit Your Children with Belts - YouTube

Study Links Spanking Kids To Aggression, Language Problems

Maternal spanking at age 5, even at low levels, was associated with higher levels of child externalizing behavior at age 9, even after an array of risks and earlier child behavior were controlled for. Father’s high-frequency spanking at age 5 was associated with lower child receptive vocabulary scores at age 9.

Womanist Musings: Dear Black Community: Beating Children With Belts Is Not Discipline, It's Abuse

He further goes on to state that he is going to give the child a reason to cry and then beats him some more. In the next scene we see the child outside with a tear streaked face. The father makes him run, crab walk and then do push ups. When he realizes that the child did the push up on his knees he accuses him of cheating and demands 15 push ups. At the end of the video you see the child doing a push up with strain more than evident on his face with the words job well done on the screen.

After about age 5 or 6 in most kids, spanking has no effect. Discipline is all about removing "satisfiers". At 5 or 6 pain free living is the best satisfier. When you become a bit older, you have other satisfiers as you develop interest. So as a parent, you remove those which has a more acute effect.

Basically it's like feeding someone the same meal for 10 years early in life....when they don't know there is any other food out there, they like it. When they realize there are other things to eat, they gravitate toward the "forbidden fruit"

The goal of a parent or disciplinarian is to find the fruit and forbid it to modify behavior.

 

[Chaussette]

No kid needs to be spanked or beat. You just need to release your frustration at your inability to handle the situation. Stop being lazy and parent.

Stop being a retard. Your inability to distinguish between spanking and beat isn't someone elses fault.

The post makes complete sense. If beating or spanking is your first resort you have nowhere to go from there. If a child is willful you will not break them with physical punishment. It will only serve to make them mean and or sneaky.

Except that it's been going on since the dawn of man. So your opinion can be dismissed for what it is.

Kids today are undisciplined because they are not taught respect for themselves and others. You dont have to beat them to teach them respect. Remember your job is teach your child to grow up and be a productive adult. Your job is not to intimidate bully them or be their best friend. Some people let their kids run wild with no restrictions or punishment. Others physically abuse them. Both methods are wrong.

Sounds a lot like you weren't spanked. Spoiled, smug, self righteous, etc. XXX XXXXX all the signs of the undisciplined child.

Anyone who hits children is a loser.

 

[Agit8r]

I know that I was spanked plenty as a child. I'll let others judge whether I turned out "okay"

 

[Iceweasel]

Anyone who hits children is a loser

Anyone that doesn't know a spanking from a beating is a loser.

 

[Asclepias]

No kid needs to be spanked or beat. You just need to release your frustration at your inability to handle the situation. Stop being lazy and parent.

Stop being a retard. Your inability to distinguish between spanking and beat isn't someone elses fault.

The post makes complete sense. If beating or spanking is your first resort you have nowhere to go from there. If a child is willful you will not break them with physical punishment. It will only serve to make them mean and or sneaky.

Except that it's been going on since the dawn of man. So your opinion can be dismissed for what it is.

Kids today are undisciplined because they are not taught respect for themselves and others. You dont have to beat them to teach them respect. Remember your job is teach your child to grow up and be a productive adult. Your job is not to intimidate bully them or be their best friend. Some people let their kids run wild with no restrictions or punishment. Others physically abuse them. Both methods are wrong.

Sounds a lot like you weren't spanked. Spoiled, smug, self righteous, etc. XXX XXXXX All the signs of the undisciplined child.

If I were not able to distinguish between the 2 i would not have listed them separately. How did you miss that obvious paradox in your logic when you quoted my sentence?

Lots of things have gone on since the dawn of time. You inability to evolve would render you extinct if we didn't have a place in our society for those unable to process complex issues. Normally you would be put down as a hinderance to the progress of the human race.

Funny you associate all those things with me. I'm told i am one of the coolest people on earth to be around. I do know people that lack confidence in themselves frequently express those same views of people that intimidate them. Do i intimidate you a little bit?

 

[Asclepias]

Anyone who hits children is a loser

Anyone that doesn't know a spanking from a beating is a loser.

Everyone knows the difference. However physically striking a child regardless of it being a beating or spanking is unnecessary and yes could be construed as loser behavior.

 

[Iceweasel]

If I were not able to distinguish between the 2 i would not have listed them separately. How did you miss that obvious paradox in your logic when you quoted my sentence?

Well duh Einstein. Who agrees with beating children? Why mention it if you aren't equating the two like the others here?

Lots of things have gone on since the dawn of time. You inability to evolve would render you extinct if we didn't have a place in our society for those unable to process complex issues. Normally you would be put down as a hinderance to the progress of the human race.

And lots of smug assholes died because they weren't as smart as they thought they were.

Funny you associate all those things with me. I'm told i am one of the coolest people on earth to be around. I do know people that lack confidence in themselves frequently express those same views of people that intimidate them. Do i intimidate you a little bit?

Sure. When I order fries I'll be watching to make sure you don't spit on them.

 

[Chaussette]

Anyone who hits children is a loser

Anyone that doesn't know a spanking from a beating is a loser.

Everyone knows the difference. However physically striking a child regardless of it being a beating or spanking is unnecessary and yes could be construed as loser behavior.

In other words, weasel is a loser.

 

[candycorn]

Clean debate zone...

 

[Chaussette]

So Candy, what's the "clean" word for someone so pathetic that they hit children?

 

[eflatminor]

But new this new data of people who spank their kids for the most part do not do well in schools and are more aggressive

Self fulfilling findings...false conclusion. OF COURSE kids that were spanked did less well in school...the very fact they had to be spanked is a predictor of future bad behavior. That does not however, mean the THREAT of spanking isn't a good deterrent to bad behavior.

My father would have beat the crap out of me if I crossed certain lines. I knew it. Guess what? I didn't cross those lines and was therefore never spanked. Subsequently, I did very well in school and had no aggression problems. See how that works?