Eating catfish is just as sinful as homosexuality

[bodecea]

they aren't analagous...

They aren't in the same chapter, and christs blood changed many things...

But one thing is consistent from old to new...

Homosexuality is an abomination and sin 100% of the time it's talked about.

It's this easy... If you are a proud homosexual, you have no place in the christian church.

Find another faith.



peace...

um, homosexuality wasn't mentioned. Anal sex was.

duhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!

Anal sex does not always equal homosexual sex.

Homosexual sex does not always equal anal sex.

Glad to have been of help there.

 

[uscitizen]

Being married does not always equal sex either

 

[Sky Dancer]

Being married does not always equal sex either

We have equal sex in my marriage.

 

[logical4u]

Christians eat ham sandwiches and have pig roasts (also prohibited under Judaic law).

My question is........why are Christians beating gays over the head with Judaic law?

Homosexuality is an Abomination Against God EVERY time it's Mentioned in the New and Old Testament... NEVER Embraced... Condoned... Or OK'd...

At no Time did God change his Mind on Fucking your Sister, your Dog or the Same Sex.

Fact.

So pick another Book.



peace...

* Of 32,000 verses in the Bible, only five directly mention homosexuality.
* The Qur'an only directly mentions homosexuality once.
* Leviticus, the book of the Bible which stipulates death for homosexuality, requires the same punishment for adultery, pre-marital sex, disobedient children and blasphemy.
* The Biblical Jesus does not condemn homosexuality.
* The destruction of the Biblical city of Sodom was due to their mistreatment of strangers.
* The Bible never condemns same sex marriage.
* The Biblical David and Jonathan had a formal same-sex union.
* 'Traditional marriage' in the Bible includes polygamy.
* No known sacred text forbids same sex marriage.
* Very few sacred texts even mention homosexuality.
* Hindu and other far eastern sacred texts do not condemn homosexuality.
* Homosexuality is not unnatural, it is practised by hundreds of species of animals.

Internet Sacred Text Archive Home

Why must you make me repeat myself???????????????????????????????????????????????????


Quote: Originally Posted by ABikerSailor
Quote: Originally Posted by logical4u
Quote: Originally Posted by ABikerSailor

Want to talk about the fact that King David and Jonathan hand a formally recognized same sex union in the eyes of the state of Israel?
Yes, please give chapter and verse where it says that David and Jonathan had any relationship besides a close friendship (more like Jonathan idolized David).

They spoke of supporting each other's children (that would mean legitimate marriage, and all that goes with it).

By what authority do you declare homosexuality NOT sinful? The Lord did say that a man sleeping with another man as a woman was wrong. In Leviticus, it says that the man that does that "forfeits" his life (I do not know what that means, but it is the only place, the only sin that I remember having this stigma). In the NT, Yeshua spoke against lewd and perverse behavior. When Yeshua stopped the men from stoning the adulterous woman, what did he tell her? I will give you a hint: STOP THAT (sinful behavior). The Holy Spirit can give us the "grace" to overcome our sinful behavior, and only through the Lord can we go beyond our physical world and walk towards His light.

Today, those that want to practice Christanity, condemn homosexual behavior (notice they do not condemn the homosexual). Every person has sinful behaviors. Christians acknowledge those sins, and work to become better people. It is only homosexual activists that not only want this sin to be "tolerated", but they want this sinful behavior elevated to acceptable and even "preferred" behavior.

For someone that reads the Bible, it should be noted there are numerous places where deceit is strongly condemned. There are also mentions of those that lead the children astray from the Lord; it does not please the Lord. There are also places that mention "twisting" or changing the Bible for our own purposes; it does not please the Lord. Homosexual activists that claim to "love" the Lord should consider how their "love" will be regarded. Yeshua narrowed the Commandments to two. Our job as Christians is even more simple: give thanks and praise to the Lord (notice there is no telling the Lord that He is wrong).

I wish you peace. I hope you can find that passage about David and Jonathan, so you can gain a better understanding of the Lord.
Not a problem......here ya go........

Bible verses are also provided.......


Quote:
David and Jonathan
There is an extensive and very sympathetic description of a same-sex relationship in the Bible, the story of David and Jonathan, e.g.: 1 Samuel 18:1-5, 1 Samuel 19:1-7, 1 Samuel 20:30-42, 2 Samuel 1:25-6. While their bond is described as non-sexual, it is difficult to characterize it as purely one of friendship.

Jonathan was the son of Saul, David's nemesis. Their souls are described as 'knit together'. David and Jonathan 'made a covenant, because he loved him as his own soul.' The word convenant is significant, because in the Tanach this word always implies a formal legal agreement. To mark this convenant, Jonathan literally gives David the clothes off of his back, as well as other gifts such as weapons.

Later in the narrative, Jonathan successfully intercedes with Saul to spare David's life. At their last meeing, 1 Samuel 20:41, they are described as kissing one another and weeping together. David's grief at Jonathan's death is profound and moving. In Davids lament for Jonathan he describes their friendship as '(sur)passing the love of women'. This elegy, 2 Samuel 1:18-27. known as 'the Bow,' is one of the most beloved passages in the Hebrew Bible.

This narrative far outweighs the two trivial aspersions against same-sex love in Leviticus. The bigots who use the Bible to assault gays are apparently blind to it.

Internet Sacred Text Archive Home
1 Samuel 18

Saul’s Growing Fear of David
1 After David had finished talking with Saul, Jonathan became one in spirit with David, and he loved him as himself. 2 From that day Saul kept David with him and did not let him return home to his family. 3 And Jonathan made a covenant with David because he loved him as himself. 4 Jonathan took off the robe he was wearing and gave it to David, along with his tunic, and even his sword, his bow and his belt.
5 Whatever mission Saul sent him on, David was so successful that Saul gave him a high rank in the army. This pleased all the troops, and Saul’s officers as well.

Are you ignoring this:
1 Samuel 17:37-40

New International Version (NIV)


37 The LORD who rescued me from the paw of the lion and the paw of the bear will rescue me from the hand of this Philistine.”

Saul said to David, “Go, and the LORD be with you.”

38 Then Saul dressed David in his own tunic. He put a coat of armor on him and a bronze helmet on his head. 39 David fastened on his sword over the tunic and tried walking around, because he was not used to them.

“I cannot go in these,” he said to Saul, “because I am not used to them.” So he took them off. 40 Then he took his staff in his hand, chose five smooth stones from the stream, put them in the pouch of his shepherd’s bag and, with his sling in his hand, approached the Philistine.

Do you now want to claim that Saul had a relationship with David because he "gave" him his clothes too?

1 Samuel 19:1-7

New International Version (NIV)



1 Samuel 19

Saul Tries to Kill David
1 Saul told his son Jonathan and all the attendants to kill David. But Jonathan had taken a great liking to David 2 and warned him, “My father Saul is looking for a chance to kill you. Be on your guard tomorrow morning; go into hiding and stay there. 3 I will go out and stand with my father in the field where you are. I’ll speak to him about you and will tell you what I find out.”
4 Jonathan spoke well of David to Saul his father and said to him, “Let not the king do wrong to his servant David; he has not wronged you, and what he has done has benefited you greatly. 5 He took his life in his hands when he killed the Philistine. The LORD won a great victory for all Israel, and you saw it and were glad. Why then would you do wrong to an innocent man like David by killing him for no reason?”

6 Saul listened to Jonathan and took this oath: “As surely as the LORD lives, David will not be put to death.”

7 So Jonathan called David and told him the whole conversation. He brought him to Saul, and David was with Saul as before.


1 Samuel 20:30-42

New International Version (NIV)

No mention of a homosexual union there.

30 Saul’s anger flared up at Jonathan and he said to him, “You son of a perverse and rebellious woman! Don’t I know that you have sided with the son of Jesse to your own shame and to the shame of the mother who bore you? 31 As long as the son of Jesse lives on this earth, neither you nor your kingdom will be established. Now send someone to bring him to me, for he must die!”

32 “Why should he be put to death? What has he done?” Jonathan asked his father. 33 But Saul hurled his spear at him to kill him. Then Jonathan knew that his father intended to kill David.

34 Jonathan got up from the table in fierce anger; on that second day of the feast he did not eat, because he was grieved at his father’s shameful treatment of David.

35 In the morning Jonathan went out to the field for his meeting with David. He had a small boy with him, 36 and he said to the boy, “Run and find the arrows I shoot.” As the boy ran, he shot an arrow beyond him. 37 When the boy came to the place where Jonathan’s arrow had fallen, Jonathan called out after him, “Isn’t the arrow beyond you?” 38 Then he shouted, “Hurry! Go quickly! Don’t stop!” The boy picked up the arrow and returned to his master. 39 (The boy knew nothing about all this; only Jonathan and David knew.) 40 Then Jonathan gave his weapons to the boy and said, “Go, carry them back to town.”

41 After the boy had gone, David got up from the south side of the stone and bowed down before Jonathan three times, with his face to the ground. Then they kissed each other and wept together—but David wept the most.

42 Jonathan said to David, “Go in peace, for we have sworn friendship with each other in the name of the LORD, saying, ‘The LORD is witness between you and me, and between your descendants and my descendants forever.’” Then David left, and Jonathan went back to the town.[a]

Friendship is not a homosexual union. This sounds more like a political treaty between tribes than a "homosexual" union.

2 Samuel 1:25-26

New International Version (NIV)



25 “How the mighty have fallen in battle!
Jonathan lies slain on your heights.
26 I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother;
you were very dear to me.
Your love for me was wonderful,
more wonderful than that of women.

Did he ever speak of him after Bathsheba?

1 Samuel 20:41

New International Version (NIV)



41 After the boy had gone, David got up from the south side of the stone and bowed down before Jonathan three times, with his face to the ground. Then they kissed each other and wept together—but David wept the most.

Sounds like the common custom of that area when a great sacrifice has been made for another (Johathan gave up his ability to inherit due to his disobedience to his father)

2 Samuel 1:18-27

New International Version (NIV)


18 and he ordered that the people of Judah be taught this lament of the bow (it is written in the Book of Jashar):

19 “A gazelle[a] lies slain on your heights, Israel.
How the mighty have fallen!

20 “Tell it not in Gath,
proclaim it not in the streets of Ashkelon,
lest the daughters of the Philistines be glad,
lest the daughters of the uncircumcised rejoice.

21 “Mountains of Gilboa,
may you have neither dew nor rain,
may no showers fall on your terraced fields.
For there the shield of the mighty was despised,
the shield of Saul—no longer rubbed with oil.

22 “From the blood of the slain,
from the flesh of the mighty,
the bow of Jonathan did not turn back,
the sword of Saul did not return unsatisfied.
23 Saul and Jonathan—
in life they were loved and admired,
and in death they were not parted.
They were swifter than eagles,
they were stronger than lions.

24 “Daughters of Israel,
weep for Saul,
who clothed you in scarlet and finery,
who adorned your garments with ornaments of gold.

25 “How the mighty have fallen in battle!
Jonathan lies slain on your heights.
26 I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother;
you were very dear to me.
Your love for me was wonderful,
more wonderful than that of women.

27 “How the mighty have fallen!
The weapons of war have perished!”

2 Samuel 9:7-12

New International Version (NIV)



7 “Don’t be afraid,” David said to him, “for I will surely show you kindness for the sake of your father Jonathan. I will restore to you all the land that belonged to your grandfather Saul, and you will always eat at my table.”

8 Mephibosheth bowed down and said, “What is your servant, that you should notice a dead dog like me?”

9 Then the king summoned Ziba, Saul’s steward, and said to him, “I have given your master’s grandson everything that belonged to Saul and his family. 10 You and your sons and your servants are to farm the land for him and bring in the crops, so that your master’s grandson may be provided for. And Mephibosheth, grandson of your master, will always eat at my table.” (Now Ziba had fifteen sons and twenty servants.)

11 Then Ziba said to the king, “Your servant will do whatever my lord the king commands his servant to do.” So Mephibosheth ate at David’s[a] table like one of the king’s sons.

12 Mephibosheth had a young son named Mika, and all the members of Ziba’s household were servants of Mephibosheth.


Funny how quiet you get when the actual text is posted.

Again there is no mention of a homosexual union. There is respect and honor.

Point: if David was homosexual, why didn't he use his power as king to have male lovers? Why did he take wives?

 

[logical4u]

They aren't Analagous...

They aren't in the same Chapter, and Christs Blood changed MANY things...

But one thing is Consistent from Old to New...

Homosexuality is an Abomination and Sin 100% of the time it's Talked about.

It's this Easy... If you are a Proud Homosexual, you have no place in the Christian Church.

Find another Faith.



peace...

My Lutheran church accepts proud homosexuals.
We don't listen or take orders from you.
No Christian I have ever met in my 57 years has told another Christian "you have no place in the Christian church, find another faith".
What denomination are you? You are not Christlike. If anyone needs to find another faith it is you. The Muslims will take you as they hate homosexuals almost as much as you do.

Our laws allow discrimination against gay men and lesbians because they are not allowed to marry a man or woman respectively. If straight men can marry women, and lesbian women cannot, they are being discriminated against.

What is next? Will it be discrimination to stop a man from using a woman's restroom? If a woman can, .....? Will women have to undergo prostate exams because they are being discriminated against, by not having something done that men have done? Will women sue men, because they are physically unable to bear children?

Marriage is between one man and one woman in this country (legally). If you are the same sex, you don't fit the "definition". You cannot change your physical sex. You can pretend, and you can make yourself "more" like the opposite sex, but you cannot change your assigned chromosones. Basically, that is what this is about: people want to deny their true sex and pretend they are something different. When Christians are attacked for "disagreeing" with that lifestyle, and the homosexual activists want to "pretend" they have the "authority of the Lord" to declare something not sinful, after the Lord has declared it sinful, they want to cry "discrimination". News flash, if a murderer declared that murder was not sinful, there would be many Christians standing in line to tell them that they, too, were wrong.

 

[bodecea]

My Lutheran church accepts proud homosexuals.
We don't listen or take orders from you.
No Christian I have ever met in my 57 years has told another Christian "you have no place in the Christian church, find another faith".
What denomination are you? You are not Christlike. If anyone needs to find another faith it is you. The Muslims will take you as they hate homosexuals almost as much as you do.

Our laws allow discrimination against gay men and lesbians because they are not allowed to marry a man or woman respectively. If straight men can marry women, and lesbian women cannot, they are being discriminated against.

What is next? Will it be discrimination to stop a man from using a woman's restroom? If a woman can, .....? Will women have to undergo prostate exams because they are being discriminated against, by not having something done that men have done? Will women sue men, because they are physically unable to bear children?

Marriage is between one man and one woman in this country (legally). If you are the same sex, you don't fit the "definition". You cannot change your physical sex. You can pretend, and you can make yourself "more" like the opposite sex, but you cannot change your assigned chromosones. Basically, that is what this is about: people want to deny their true sex and pretend they are something different. When Christians are attacked for "disagreeing" with that lifestyle, and the homosexual activists want to "pretend" they have the "authority of the Lord" to declare something not sinful, after the Lord has declared it sinful, they want to cry "discrimination". News flash, if a murderer declared that murder was not sinful, there would be many Christians standing in line to tell them that they, too, were wrong.

Wow! Haven't heard that old chestnut since the ERA days.

 

[logical4u]

I'm assuming the denomination that knows;

Judge not, lest ye be judged.

By the same measure with which you judge, you will be judged.

He that is without sin, cast the first stone.

If you are aware that someone is committing a sin, and you do not notify them of their wrongdoing, then you, will be held accountable for that sin, the same as if you had committed the sin, yourself.

Telling someone they are making the "wrong" choices is not judging. That is trying to show them the error of their ways, the same as you would for an addict, or a clepto. Only the homosexual activists want to declare their particular sin, "clean". They do not have the authority of the Lord.

If you can show me where the Lord says "homosexual acts are not sinful", then we could actually have something substantial from the homosexual activists. Otherwise, you are just blowing hot air, bearing false witness, against the Lord, and leading others into temptation (I believe those last two are worse than homosexual acts).

 

[BDBoop]

And the anti-gay drone goes on and on and on and on and on........

Good lord, tell me about it.

Being gay cannot be unnatural. Were it unnatural, it would not occur in nature. Hello.

 

[logical4u]

Not to mention;

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to."

Replace Pharisees with homosexual activists and you will understand why Christians are against legitimizing homosexual acts.

 

[logical4u]

The Old Testament taught that man could have multiple wives and slaves. Maybe cons would like to go back to those values.

Great dodge! Christians (followers of Christ) believed Him when he said that a man will leave his parents house and take a wife and the two shall become one. Homosexuals stay, two of a kind.

There are many lessons in the OT, too bad, you didn't pay closer attention, especially to the parts that demonstrate the wisdom and justice of the Lord.

 

[logical4u]

The Old Testament taught that man could have multiple wives and slaves. Maybe cons would like to go back to those values.

The Old Testament merely reflected the society in which the people of those days lived.

Perhaps you libs would prefer to REJECT all the things that the Old and New Testaments "teach?"

Most of the Old Testament is rejected by christians, thankfully.

If it weren't I'd be dead (non-believer), the few remaining people allowed to live on this Earth would abide by some crazy rules too.

I disagree, most Christians that I know consider the OT as a great learning tool. Not only does it demonstrate the patience and sincerity of the Lord, it demonstrates how His enemies (those that sin against Him) were defeated. Yeshua told us that He came to "fullfill" the law, not relplace it. He also told us about laws that were made for rituals, that were hypocritical, and not worshipping the Lord. Ignore the OT at your own peril.

 

[logical4u]

Most of the Old Testament is rejected by christians, thankfully.

If it weren't I'd be dead (non-believer), the few remaining people allowed to live on this Earth would abide by some crazy rules too.

You are dead wrong Doc.
The so called Christians, and my new found cousins here, on this board reject all of the new Testament EXCEPT comparing gays to dog fuckers.
They eat their BBQ hog sammiches, shrimp and cat fish galore. God stated it was abominable to do so but God had just put down his Redbook magazine and was only giving ceremonial advice.

Yeah sadly history and modern day has shown that a certain group of bigots within christianity will use and abuse parts of the Old Testament to rationalize and promote their hate.

Even though Jesus rejected the entire concept of hate, even for your enemies as my sig shows.

Informing someone that they are making a mistake is not "hate".


Letting someone continue to make a mistake that will cost them dearly is not "love".

 

[logical4u]

Most of the Old Testament is rejected by christians, thankfully.

If it weren't I'd be dead (non-believer), the few remaining people allowed to live on this Earth would abide by some crazy rules too.

You are dead wrong Doc.
The so called Christians, and my new found cousins here, on this board reject all of the old Testament EXCEPT comparing gays to dog fuckers.
They eat their BBQ hog sammiches, shrimp and cat fish galore. God stated it was abominable to do so but God had just put down his Redbook magazine and was only giving ceremonial advice.

If I remember correctly does not Leviticus call for death for someone the curses their parents.

I also believe there is a call that women are not to speak, teach or have authority over men - I wonder how that jives with Bachmann possibly being the Commander-in-Chief.


For those that claim to follow all laws laid out in the Bible I wonder how those work.


>>>>

How many times must the Lord declare something sinful, before you believe Him?

 

[logical4u]

Oh the old argument "the bible refers to slaves so we must throw out the bible! It's no good I tell ya!"

SLAVES in the bible were essentially indentured servants, and freed every 7 years.

Link?

Judaism and slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of course, that doesn't explain the standoff between Moses and the Pharaoh, and Exodus. I mean really! Just move up the free date. Why lose all the first born over his stubbornness?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIxToZmJwdI]Google Exodus - YouTube[/ame]

How would the most powerful men in the world know the power of the Lord, if He just made a puff of smoke and His will was done? Read about Exodus, to understand the power of the Lord. If you check out Numbers, you will see where the Hebrews could not deal with the Lord in their midst, and requested Moses to petition the Lord, not to travel with them or appear among them.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

What is next? Will it be discrimination to stop a man from using a woman's restroom? If a woman can, .....? Will women have to undergo prostate exams because they are being discriminated against, by not having something done that men have done? Will women sue men, because they are physically unable to bear children?

Of course not, that’s just idiotic.

Marriage is between one man and one woman in this country (legally).

Incorrect. There are states which have reformed their marriage laws to conform to the Constitution.

If you are the same sex, you don't fit the "definition". You cannot change your physical sex. You can pretend, and you can make yourself "more" like the opposite sex, but you cannot change your assigned chromosones. Basically, that is what this is about: people want to deny their true sex and pretend they are something different.

Nonsense, it has only to do with two individuals wishing equal access to their state’s marriage laws in accordance with the 14th Amendment.

Christians are attacked for "disagreeing" with that lifestyle, and the homosexual activists want to "pretend" they have the "authority of the Lord" to declare something not sinful, after the Lord has declared it sinful, they want to cry "discrimination". News flash, if a murderer declared that murder was not sinful, there would be many Christians standing in line to tell them that they, too, were wrong.

This seems a common misconception among many conservatives, that to defend minorities from attacks by Christians predicated on Christian dogma constitutes an ‘attack.’

Christians are entitled to disagree with whatever they want, and no one’s compelling them to do anything which conflicts with their religious dogma. Christians may not, however, attempt to codify that dogma into secular law in an attempt to discriminate against a given minority. And prohibiting Christians from doing just that is not an ‘attack’ on Christians nor does it ‘discriminate’ against them.

 

[logical4u]

Where was Homosexuality Embraced anywhere in the Old or New?...

And what did Christ say about Marriage?...

Find another Book... Seriously, it's not the only one out there.



peace...

He's pointing out that you blindly pick and choose which parts of the Old Testament to take with 100% seriousness and which parts you completely reject, anyone with common sense can see that you're picking and choosing in order to justify your hate.

What did Christ say about homosexuality?

What did he say about treating people the way you wanted to be treated and loving your fellow person? These are the parts of the New Testament that you sadly reject as well.

Find another prophet, Jesus isn't the only one out there.

Sermon on the Mount......Jesus was just joking.

You mock the Lord and want to tell us (US population) to take "you" seriously over your rights? Get back to us when you can quiet the seas, calm the storm, and walk on water, sooner.

 

[logical4u]

Of the few times that homosexuality is referred to in the Bible, it's considered an abomination, not a sin.

The only sins that I'm currently aware of are the ones in the 10 Commandments.

You puritanical assholes need to slow yer fucking roll.

Yes, and homosexual acts break at least three of the 10 Commandments. You were saying.....

 

[logical4u]

Of the few times that homosexuality is referred to in the Bible, it's considered an abomination, not a sin.

The only sins that I'm currently aware of are the ones in the 10 Commandments.

You puritanical assholes need to slow yer fucking roll.

Wishing you had your neighbor's new stereo is a far worse sin than anything involving sodomy or being gay according to the Bible.


But bigots like Mal pick and choose what parts of the OLD Testament to live by and the overwhelming majority of the NEW testament and Jesus' teachings he pisses on.

So you agree that homosexual acts are sinful, now you want to argue over the severity of the sin?

 

[logical4u]

I just had an interesting thought. How many people would drop the gay issue if they knew that they could keep up the good work, once everybody sees a video of their sins thus far.

Gays are born sinners just like every other baby on the planet (saying this from my fundy upbringing). They aren't born sinners because they're gay, they are born sinners because they are human.

I still haven't seen anybody say that they chose to be straight, or that a choice ever was even given to them. So how can they POSSIBLY believe that gays made a decision?

Do you choose with who you have sex? Or do you walk down the street waiting for someone to force you, and that's how you know if you are straight or not?

 

[logical4u]

You DO realize that Levitical law is for those who are Jewish priests, right?

When did you convert?

Yeah, you're Right... God Embraces Homosexuality and Beastiality.



peace...

Never said anything about God embracing any of that stuff. I just told you that Levitical moral law was for the Levites, who were the priests of Israel.

And.......if you're gonna follow Levitical law, you must have converted.

So, you agree that homosexual acts are sinful?