Ecology and Racism.

[flacaltenn]

Neither of those are scientific silly boy. i thought you were interested in science and the scientific method. You see dear child, the scientific method was developed over centuries to educate religious fanatics such as yourself so that you would stop sacrificing virgins to the volcano God. Clearly you are still locked in the 600's.

It might take up to 50 (fifty) years, but how "scientific" do you think it will be when most of the life on earth is extinct.

it won't be. I suggest you do a little research. If you do, you will find that when it has been even warmer than it is today the plant and animal life has blossomed. The most recent species explosion occurred 55 million years ago during the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum and other than some benthic forams that died in some very localized areas (most likely do to anoxic conditions) the rest of the flora and fauna exploded in both diversity and sheer numbers.

EVERY time you look at the paleo record the facts are clear, when it has been warmer it has been better. FAR better. The end is nigh BS that you idiots spew is just that, BS. There is ZERO empirical evidence to support a single one of the predictions that global warming will lead to mass extinction. It amazes me that supposedly thinking people can look at the billions of years of Earths history and ignore it in favor of predictions made by idiots who have never been correct.

Here's a fact for you.....did you know that the well known charlatan Sylvia Brown has a better predictive rate than your so called experts? And not just a little better, her hit rate is significantly better than ANY of your experts.

That's just sad. But, it just lends further proof that the cult of AGW is just that, a religious cult. You have no facts to back up one iota of your belief, but who needs facts when you have "faith"?

You must be insane. As it is now, there are areas of the planet where createurs that have been arouns sinse before dinosaurs existed that have to hide from the heat of the day. And you think it will be just fine and dandy if the planet got even hotter? Give me a break. Also, you are right about it having been far hotter in the distant past. So hot that methane was less likely to accumulate. Since then, our planet has generally been on a cooling trend. Under such conditions methane is more likely to accumulate. Such as in methane hydrate ice in the ocean and in tundra. As things now stand, I have seen videos of that ice melting and bubbling up to the surface. I have also seen people punch holes in the ice of some lake far up north and set the gas coming out on fire. As the planet warms, all of this is likely to increase and have an exponential effect.

Uh.. Time out. Sit down. You telling me that there are species who see a normal 30 or 40 deg swing in their NORMAL environment that are suffering because of a 1 degC in the past century or so??? The temperature swings DAILY in most environments far exceed 1degC..

I'm not talking about temperature swings. I'm talking about the heat they avoid right now. As in, things are already too hot for them. What do you think that will mean as the planet heats up more.

Hey.. The heat they "avoid" right now is only 1deg MORE than what their ancestors avoided in 1885. Think a bark beetle CARES about 1deg ???

 

[krypto]

Your starvation and smallpox examples are so weak when it comes to climate as to be almost nonexistant. Next, just a couple weeks ago or so I was watching a discussion about natural gas. How it is supposed to be cleaner than coal. But there is so much leakage in the gas distribution network, it is actually worse for the environment than if we just used coal. Which of course is because methane is about 20 times more potent of a greenhouse gas than CO2.

Next, making clothing probably produces no more CO2 than making paper does. In fact, probably less. But what last longer. Paper products or warm clothing. Also, if the plant making the clothing used electricty from solar pannels and wind power, they would take much less CO2 to produce. Another thing is that in Germany, they have been going toward solar energy in a big way. And they receive far less sunlight than we do here in the U.S. Why don't we do the same thing here? Because oil and gas companies, as well as the automotive industry can't make as much money off something that is free.

Your starvation and smallpox examples are so weak

So weak and so not ideal.

Also, if the plant making the clothing used electricty from solar pannels and wind power, they would take much less CO2 to produce.

What about the CO2 from the coal or nat gas plant that needs to spin up every time the wind slows or a cloud blocks the sun?
High tech equipment doesn't work very well with fluctuating current, eh?

Another thing is that in Germany, they have been going toward solar energy in a big way.

Yeah, so much that they had to burn more lignite.
Good stuff, right?

Because oil and gas companies, as well as the automotive industry can't make as much money off something that is free.

Solar and wind are free? I guess we can stop wasting billions to subsidize it. Thanks!

First, you use solar and wind to produce more than you need. The rest you store for when there is no wind or sun. Next, I don't know what "lignite" is. But I take it that it is a form of coal. Well if they didn't have the solar energy that they have, they would probably be burning more of it. Next, today we had both sun and wind. Did you pay for any of it?

First, you use solar and wind to produce more than you need.

You make it sound so easy. How many thousands of square miles will we need?

Next, I don't know what "lignite" is.

If only we could harness the energy of all the things you don't know.......

Well if they didn't have the solar energy that they have, they would probably be burning more of it.

Or they could use something reliable and useful, like nat gas or nuclear........

Next, today we had both sun and wind. Did you pay for any of it?

Based on the stupid subsidies we have in place, probably.

First of all, wind energy isn't even needed. There are more than enough rooftops do do the job. Also, what if we were to start paving roads and parking lots with durable pannels that were transluicent enough to let light through. There is enough pavement in the U.S. to cover the state of West Virginia. Next, you need to worry about what I do know. Next, let me put it this way. What if you paid absolutely nothing for solar and wind. Would the sun still shine and the wind blow?

There are more than enough rooftops do do the job.

How much would it cost? How useful is it at night or on cloudy days?

Also, what if we were to start paving roads and parking lots with durable pannels that were transluicent enough to let light through.

As long as we're building stuff that hasn't been invented yet, let's go straight to fusion.

Next, you need to worry about what I do know.

It's more fun to laugh at your idiocy.

What if you paid absolutely nothing for solar and wind.

Are you hitting the medical marijuana?

How much would it cost if the life on earth went extinct. Next, it would be useful enough when you stored the excess. It HAS been invented. What would you prefer. Plastic or glass. Next, you're the idiot. And maybe you should start smoking weed. Your debates couldn't get any worse.

 

[westwall]

Correlation does not equal causation is a scientific axiom that you should aquaint yourself with.

I have a couple sayings for you to aquaint yourself with. "Where there's smoke, there's fire." Also, "It's better to be safe than sorry." I have something else for you to consider. But it will probably be a little like asking a heroin addict to consider quitting. What "if" you are right. And that's a very very big "IF." What is the worst that can happen by doing something about HCGW. We start living more sustainably with the planet. And in doing so, for instance, stop making creatures go extinct.

But what "if" I am right. And that "if" is nonexistant. Because I am right. What is the worst than can happen by doing nothing about HCGW. Just most of the life on earth going extinct. Which I heard one college professor who had been studying the problem for the last 15 years, could happen in about 20 years. You tell me what is worse. Living sustainably, or destroying most of the life on earth.

Neither of those are scientific silly boy. i thought you were interested in science and the scientific method. You see dear child, the scientific method was developed over centuries to educate religious fanatics such as yourself so that you would stop sacrificing virgins to the volcano God. Clearly you are still locked in the 600's.

It might take up to 50 (fifty) years, but how "scientific" do you think it will be when most of the life on earth is extinct.

it won't be. I suggest you do a little research. If you do, you will find that when it has been even warmer than it is today the plant and animal life has blossomed. The most recent species explosion occurred 55 million years ago during the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum and other than some benthic forams that died in some very localized areas (most likely do to anoxic conditions) the rest of the flora and fauna exploded in both diversity and sheer numbers.

EVERY time you look at the paleo record the facts are clear, when it has been warmer it has been better. FAR better. The end is nigh BS that you idiots spew is just that, BS. There is ZERO empirical evidence to support a single one of the predictions that global warming will lead to mass extinction. It amazes me that supposedly thinking people can look at the billions of years of Earths history and ignore it in favor of predictions made by idiots who have never been correct.

Here's a fact for you.....did you know that the well known charlatan Sylvia Brown has a better predictive rate than your so called experts? And not just a little better, her hit rate is significantly better than ANY of your experts.

That's just sad. But, it just lends further proof that the cult of AGW is just that, a religious cult. You have no facts to back up one iota of your belief, but who needs facts when you have "faith"?

You must be insane. As it is now, there are areas of the planet where createurs that have been arouns sinse before dinosaurs existed that have to hide from the heat of the day. And you think it will be just fine and dandy if the planet got even hotter? Give me a break. Also, you are right about it having been far hotter in the distant past. So hot that methane was less likely to accumulate. Since then, our planet has generally been on a cooling trend. Under such conditions methane is more likely to accumulate. Such as in methane hydrate ice in the ocean and in tundra. As things now stand, I have seen videos of that ice melting and bubbling up to the surface. I have also seen people punch holes in the ice of some lake far up north and set the gas coming out on fire. As the planet warms, all of this is likely to increase and have an exponential effect.

Look at the graphs. They should tell you what organization created them. I have a couple more for you. If you think it will help.

Why can't you give me the formula, the ratio of CO2 to temperature?

X CO2 causes Y warming.

What is X? What is Y?

Why can't you tell me this?

View attachment 75228

If I want to know the sum of squares to find the slop in a regression analysis I can use the above formula.

You see in real science, in legitimate science, things are quantifiable, testable, verifiable, repeatable.

But then AGW, just like Astrology or parapsychology is not legitimate, not science at all.

No son, they sure didn't.

We are the wrong crowd to lie to.

No, it's a con.

Yes fetus, they sure do. Next, "I" am the wrong person to lie to. Next, a couple of years ago, for example, the entire continent of Greenland experienced melting for the first time. Even mountain tops. Was that a con? I have a documentary to suggest to you. It's called "Greedy Lying Bastards." One of the things you can see is the CEO of EXXON admitting that human caused global warming was a reality. If anybody would have reason to tell your kind of lies about HCGW, he would. So what does that have to say about your position on the matter.

Let's ditch this nasty fable of "all of Greenland melting for the first time".. Not unusual in a warm period for LARGE portions of surface ice to melt and then refreeze. Doesn't predict a great loss except thru some sublimation because of clear skies and the sun. And the "first time"? Well that's since we've had the ABILITY TO OBSERVE a quick surface melt of an entire Greenland. Roughly since 1975 when the first reliable satellites went up. --- Not since forever is it? OR -- maybe no one was LOOKING hard enough for an event like that until it became to lucrative to find it..

And it turns out -- the scientists at Exxon called out predictions that were FAR MORE ACCURATE than what the "established" climate science had made about the same time. They should be given credit for the BETTER scientific projections -- not scorned. The "real" climate scientist predictions from that same era --- the ones that PURPOSELY frightened tiny minds in the public --- have all failed miserably.. So the CEO admits his people figured out how warming more CO2 would contribute. They were conservative and they were RIGHT !!! And it's not now the fucking disaster that the GW "establishment believed it would be. They should be HONORED for their research..

See -- it's not enough to say that man is causing some GW -- You need to accurately state HOW much warming to allow society to adapt. And the GW theory is that we're gonna reach a "tipping point" at which the Earth just destroys it's climate system. That's NOT part of what Exxon admitted. And it's not actually likely a real scenario..

First, I've heard it all before. The disappearance or thinning of the polar ice caps is just part of some natural cycle. Well I guess for you, it is better to be sorry than safe. Next, "as it turns out," I said what I said. The CEO of EXXON admitted on camera, (though it was a hidden camera) that human caused global warming was a reality. End of story.

Next, I will tell you a story that never seems to end. When something is going on that it would be unprofitable to put an end to, those in power promise to study the problem further. Into infinity. That way, nothing will change. But you don't have to know absolutely every little thing about human caused global warming to know that it is a problem that must be dealt with.

Next, I will tell you what the "real scenario" is likely to be. HCGW will create more methane release from tundra and shallow parts of the ocean. This will cause more warming. Causing more methane release. In an exponential effect, things will start to get so bad so fast, you will shit your pants. And metaphorically speaking, most of the life on earth will start to die off before the shit has had time to run down your leg.

How thick exactly is Arctic Sea Ice? The fact that it melts does virtually NOTHING to sea level change. It could ALL melt at some point one summer and in less than a decade be restored to where it was 40 years ago. Because the "older ice" up there is 4 to 8 yrs old. That's all. And all indications are that it does indeed cycle over multiple decades. We've only had complete ability to ACCURATELY track it for 40 years..

The Antarctic is a completely different story.. MASSIVE glaciers and permanent ice cover. Could NEVER be restored in less than 10,000 years. And down there -- the concern is the structure of the coastal glaciers mostly. Almost EVERY recent science paper on the topic admits --- straight away -- that there is an extremely POOR understanding of the sea floor footings of these giant ice sculptures and how they move and change. Not even CLOSE to settled science. YET -- that doesn't stop them from making outrageous claims as to what MIGHT happen and when it MIGHT happen..

Would you really want to live in a climate where all the glaciers were healthy and GROWING??

First, I didn't do the measurements myself. But from what I have heard, the northern ice cap is getting thinner. In the documentary, "Greedy Lying Bastards," they even went way up north and talked with eskimos who live on an island just off the coast of northern Canadia. In the lifetime of most of those there, they have had the polar ice retreat. The government had to put up wave barriers to keep the ocean from destroying their village. Because the sea ice wasn't there to protect their village from the waves.

Next, without HCGW, how can the northern ice cap "cycle." Next, the sea ice in antartica is understood well enough. And when you see a part of it as large as some countries break up and drift off, there isn't much to understand about that. All you have to do is see it. Next, I would rather see another ice age rather than another Permian extinction.

Your starvation and smallpox examples are so weak

So weak and so not ideal.

Also, if the plant making the clothing used electricty from solar pannels and wind power, they would take much less CO2 to produce.

What about the CO2 from the coal or nat gas plant that needs to spin up every time the wind slows or a cloud blocks the sun?
High tech equipment doesn't work very well with fluctuating current, eh?

Another thing is that in Germany, they have been going toward solar energy in a big way.

Yeah, so much that they had to burn more lignite.
Good stuff, right?

Because oil and gas companies, as well as the automotive industry can't make as much money off something that is free.

Solar and wind are free? I guess we can stop wasting billions to subsidize it. Thanks!

First, you use solar and wind to produce more than you need. The rest you store for when there is no wind or sun. Next, I don't know what "lignite" is. But I take it that it is a form of coal. Well if they didn't have the solar energy that they have, they would probably be burning more of it. Next, today we had both sun and wind. Did you pay for any of it?

First, you use solar and wind to produce more than you need.

You make it sound so easy. How many thousands of square miles will we need?

Next, I don't know what "lignite" is.

If only we could harness the energy of all the things you don't know.......

Well if they didn't have the solar energy that they have, they would probably be burning more of it.

Or they could use something reliable and useful, like nat gas or nuclear........

Next, today we had both sun and wind. Did you pay for any of it?

Based on the stupid subsidies we have in place, probably.

First of all, wind energy isn't even needed. There are more than enough rooftops do do the job. Also, what if we were to start paving roads and parking lots with durable pannels that were transluicent enough to let light through. There is enough pavement in the U.S. to cover the state of West Virginia. Next, you need to worry about what I do know. Next, let me put it this way. What if you paid absolutely nothing for solar and wind. Would the sun still shine and the wind blow?

There are more than enough rooftops do do the job.

How much would it cost? How useful is it at night or on cloudy days?

Also, what if we were to start paving roads and parking lots with durable pannels that were transluicent enough to let light through.

As long as we're building stuff that hasn't been invented yet, let's go straight to fusion.

Next, you need to worry about what I do know.

It's more fun to laugh at your idiocy.

What if you paid absolutely nothing for solar and wind.

Are you hitting the medical marijuana?

How much would it cost if the life on earth went extinct. Next, it would be useful enough when you stored the excess. It HAS been invented. What would you prefer. Plastic or glass. Next, you're the idiot. And maybe you should start smoking weed. Your debates couldn't get any worse.

Once again for the learning impaired, throughout time when it has been warmer it has been better on THIS planet. Why do you ignore scientific and historical fact?

 

[Unkotare]

Look at the graphs. They should tell you what organization created them. I have a couple more for you. If you think it will help.

Why can't you give me the formula, the ratio of CO2 to temperature?

X CO2 causes Y warming.

What is X? What is Y?

Why can't you tell me this?

View attachment 75228

If I want to know the sum of squares to find the slop in a regression analysis I can use the above formula.

You see in real science, in legitimate science, things are quantifiable, testable, verifiable, repeatable.

But then AGW, just like Astrology or parapsychology is not legitimate, not science at all.

No son, they sure didn't.

We are the wrong crowd to lie to.

No, it's a con.

Yes fetus, they sure do. Next, "I" am the wrong person to lie to. Next, a couple of years ago, for example, the entire continent of Greenland experienced melting for the first time. Even mountain tops. Was that a con? I have a documentary to suggest to you. It's called "Greedy Lying Bastards." One of the things you can see is the CEO of EXXON admitting that human caused global warming was a reality. If anybody would have reason to tell your kind of lies about HCGW, he would. So what does that have to say about your position on the matter.

Let's ditch this nasty fable of "all of Greenland melting for the first time".. Not unusual in a warm period for LARGE portions of surface ice to melt and then refreeze. Doesn't predict a great loss except thru some sublimation because of clear skies and the sun. And the "first time"? Well that's since we've had the ABILITY TO OBSERVE a quick surface melt of an entire Greenland. Roughly since 1975 when the first reliable satellites went up. --- Not since forever is it? OR -- maybe no one was LOOKING hard enough for an event like that until it became to lucrative to find it..

And it turns out -- the scientists at Exxon called out predictions that were FAR MORE ACCURATE than what the "established" climate science had made about the same time. They should be given credit for the BETTER scientific projections -- not scorned. The "real" climate scientist predictions from that same era --- the ones that PURPOSELY frightened tiny minds in the public --- have all failed miserably.. So the CEO admits his people figured out how warming more CO2 would contribute. They were conservative and they were RIGHT !!! And it's not now the fucking disaster that the GW "establishment believed it would be. They should be HONORED for their research..

See -- it's not enough to say that man is causing some GW -- You need to accurately state HOW much warming to allow society to adapt. And the GW theory is that we're gonna reach a "tipping point" at which the Earth just destroys it's climate system. That's NOT part of what Exxon admitted. And it's not actually likely a real scenario..

First, I've heard it all before. The disappearance or thinning of the polar ice caps is just part of some natural cycle. Well I guess for you, it is better to be sorry than safe. Next, "as it turns out," I said what I said. The CEO of EXXON admitted on camera, (though it was a hidden camera) that human caused global warming was a reality. End of story.

Next, I will tell you a story that never seems to end. When something is going on that it would be unprofitable to put an end to, those in power promise to study the problem further. Into infinity. That way, nothing will change. But you don't have to know absolutely every little thing about human caused global warming to know that it is a problem that must be dealt with.

Next, I will tell you what the "real scenario" is likely to be. HCGW will create more methane release from tundra and shallow parts of the ocean. This will cause more warming. Causing more methane release. In an exponential effect, things will start to get so bad so fast, you will shit your pants. And metaphorically speaking, most of the life on earth will start to die off before the shit has had time to run down your leg.

I figured out where you got this Ecology and Racism crap.. You caught it from THIS GUY apparently..

Islamophobia and Ecological Disasters -- How they are related??????

I didn't get it from anywhere. ...

Of course.......

 

[flacaltenn]

Why can't you give me the formula, the ratio of CO2 to temperature?

X CO2 causes Y warming.

What is X? What is Y?

Why can't you tell me this?

View attachment 75228

If I want to know the sum of squares to find the slop in a regression analysis I can use the above formula.

You see in real science, in legitimate science, things are quantifiable, testable, verifiable, repeatable.

But then AGW, just like Astrology or parapsychology is not legitimate, not science at all.

Yes fetus, they sure do. Next, "I" am the wrong person to lie to. Next, a couple of years ago, for example, the entire continent of Greenland experienced melting for the first time. Even mountain tops. Was that a con? I have a documentary to suggest to you. It's called "Greedy Lying Bastards." One of the things you can see is the CEO of EXXON admitting that human caused global warming was a reality. If anybody would have reason to tell your kind of lies about HCGW, he would. So what does that have to say about your position on the matter.

Let's ditch this nasty fable of "all of Greenland melting for the first time".. Not unusual in a warm period for LARGE portions of surface ice to melt and then refreeze. Doesn't predict a great loss except thru some sublimation because of clear skies and the sun. And the "first time"? Well that's since we've had the ABILITY TO OBSERVE a quick surface melt of an entire Greenland. Roughly since 1975 when the first reliable satellites went up. --- Not since forever is it? OR -- maybe no one was LOOKING hard enough for an event like that until it became to lucrative to find it..

And it turns out -- the scientists at Exxon called out predictions that were FAR MORE ACCURATE than what the "established" climate science had made about the same time. They should be given credit for the BETTER scientific projections -- not scorned. The "real" climate scientist predictions from that same era --- the ones that PURPOSELY frightened tiny minds in the public --- have all failed miserably.. So the CEO admits his people figured out how warming more CO2 would contribute. They were conservative and they were RIGHT !!! And it's not now the fucking disaster that the GW "establishment believed it would be. They should be HONORED for their research..

See -- it's not enough to say that man is causing some GW -- You need to accurately state HOW much warming to allow society to adapt. And the GW theory is that we're gonna reach a "tipping point" at which the Earth just destroys it's climate system. That's NOT part of what Exxon admitted. And it's not actually likely a real scenario..

First, I've heard it all before. The disappearance or thinning of the polar ice caps is just part of some natural cycle. Well I guess for you, it is better to be sorry than safe. Next, "as it turns out," I said what I said. The CEO of EXXON admitted on camera, (though it was a hidden camera) that human caused global warming was a reality. End of story.

Next, I will tell you a story that never seems to end. When something is going on that it would be unprofitable to put an end to, those in power promise to study the problem further. Into infinity. That way, nothing will change. But you don't have to know absolutely every little thing about human caused global warming to know that it is a problem that must be dealt with.

Next, I will tell you what the "real scenario" is likely to be. HCGW will create more methane release from tundra and shallow parts of the ocean. This will cause more warming. Causing more methane release. In an exponential effect, things will start to get so bad so fast, you will shit your pants. And metaphorically speaking, most of the life on earth will start to die off before the shit has had time to run down your leg.

See -- now that's the problem here. I admit that more CO2 in the atmos means "some" temperature elevation. I ADMIT IT. Just like you "THINK" the Exxon plead guilty to hiding sometthing. But here's the rub. That's NOT the question that defines GW theory. GW 'science' took the REAL warming powers of CO2 and greatly exaggerated them with speculations about positive feedbacks and runaway conditions and "magic multipliers" to the basic warming power of CO2. THAT is where the real questions are. Not as simply as "is it warming and could man be contributing to that". But the media and politicians rely on folks not following the science deeper than the sound bites and the MASSIVE PR campaign.

Which relates directly into your "new story".. ..... about those massive methane calthrates thawing.
Turns out -- the recent climate history of the planet is a series of FOUR repetitive DEEP and LONG Ice Ages that were punctuated with much shorter "climate optimums" like the one we live in. When the Great Lakes were under a MILE of ice -- there was enough "thawing" to remove them COMPLETELY from the planet. During those periods of thaw --- the CO2 and methane were climbing astronomically because of methane/CO2 released from the frozen land and oceans. The AMOUNTS of GH gases released were HUGE compared to what's left in the tundra regions and under cold seas. Very LITTLE is left to thaw.

So if this "positive feedback" of thawing buried calthrates is gonna cause runaway GW NOW --- why didn't those much more MASSIVE thaws -- involving 16 or 18degC swings CONTINUE to runaway those previous 4 times? Why wouldn't ZOOMING LEVELS of CO2 and methane continue to thaw every last bit of frozen methane calthrates back then? Do we really believe that a mere 2degC average Global change is sufficient to "end it all"? I don't..

Climate science is a fairly new discipline. And it grew at a time when our ability to OBSERVE the present state of the climate improved tremendously. But settling all that science has not yet happened. A lot of folks want to pretend it's all in the books.

First of all, I never said that EXXON pled guilty to anything. All I said was that on a hidden cameria at an EXXON stock holders meeting, the CEO of EXXON admitted that human caused global warming was a reality. Next, you sure do talk a load of crap. For example, you bring up what happened in the past. Well in the past, what was happening with volcanoes was probably pretty much what is happening today. Which is that each year they release about 200 million tons of CO2 into the biosphere. But humans are now responsible for the release of 26.8 BILLION tons of CO2 each year.

How wonderful to find a single solid fact in this quaking bog of misinformation.
.

Well if its numbers you want.. The oceans toss up about 350 Gtons of CO2 every year. The land about an equal amount. So man's 30 Gtons is about 5%.. Then the land and oceans also SINK about that same 700Gtons plus (we think) about 1/2 of man's emissions. So man's contribution to this CO2 cycle that ends up "in the atmos" is about 2.5% of the total cycle. And in fact -- it's pretty much all fungible. Since "old carbon" CO2 is also produced by the land and oceans.

Man also gets cheated for being billed for domestic animals which are a appreciable part of the emissions.

Imagine that. If we REALLY KNEW how this cycle balances out -- we'd have to know it to far less than 1% errors. And we don't.. These are pretty much estimates and not "settled science"...

If we were 1% off on the amount the ocean emits and sinks --- it would be significant -- wouldn't it?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Your starvation and smallpox examples are so weak

So weak and so not ideal.

Also, if the plant making the clothing used electricty from solar pannels and wind power, they would take much less CO2 to produce.

What about the CO2 from the coal or nat gas plant that needs to spin up every time the wind slows or a cloud blocks the sun?
High tech equipment doesn't work very well with fluctuating current, eh?

Another thing is that in Germany, they have been going toward solar energy in a big way.

Yeah, so much that they had to burn more lignite.
Good stuff, right?

Because oil and gas companies, as well as the automotive industry can't make as much money off something that is free.

Solar and wind are free? I guess we can stop wasting billions to subsidize it. Thanks!

First, you use solar and wind to produce more than you need. The rest you store for when there is no wind or sun. Next, I don't know what "lignite" is. But I take it that it is a form of coal. Well if they didn't have the solar energy that they have, they would probably be burning more of it. Next, today we had both sun and wind. Did you pay for any of it?

First, you use solar and wind to produce more than you need.

You make it sound so easy. How many thousands of square miles will we need?

Next, I don't know what "lignite" is.

If only we could harness the energy of all the things you don't know.......

Well if they didn't have the solar energy that they have, they would probably be burning more of it.

Or they could use something reliable and useful, like nat gas or nuclear........

Next, today we had both sun and wind. Did you pay for any of it?

Based on the stupid subsidies we have in place, probably.

First of all, wind energy isn't even needed. There are more than enough rooftops do do the job. Also, what if we were to start paving roads and parking lots with durable pannels that were transluicent enough to let light through. There is enough pavement in the U.S. to cover the state of West Virginia. Next, you need to worry about what I do know. Next, let me put it this way. What if you paid absolutely nothing for solar and wind. Would the sun still shine and the wind blow?

There are more than enough rooftops do do the job.

How much would it cost? How useful is it at night or on cloudy days?

Also, what if we were to start paving roads and parking lots with durable pannels that were transluicent enough to let light through.

As long as we're building stuff that hasn't been invented yet, let's go straight to fusion.

Next, you need to worry about what I do know.

It's more fun to laugh at your idiocy.

What if you paid absolutely nothing for solar and wind.

Are you hitting the medical marijuana?

How much would it cost if the life on earth went extinct. Next, it would be useful enough when you stored the excess. It HAS been invented. What would you prefer. Plastic or glass. Next, you're the idiot. And maybe you should start smoking weed. Your debates couldn't get any worse.

How much would it cost if the life on earth went extinct.

It would be free.

Next, it would be useful enough when you stored the excess.

So beyond the massive cost for the panels, we all need thousands of pounds of lead batteries in each home and business, to store the excess?
That's a relief, I thought you were pushing for something environmentally friendly.

What would you prefer. Plastic or glass.

I prefer reliable energy that actually works. That leaves your "road panels" out.

Your debates couldn't get any worse.

I agree, my debates with grade school intellects like you are unsatisfying.

 

[krypto]

Your starvation and smallpox examples are so weak when it comes to climate as to be almost nonexistant. Next, just a couple weeks ago or so I was watching a discussion about natural gas. How it is supposed to be cleaner than coal. But there is so much leakage in the gas distribution network, it is actually worse for the environment than if we just used coal. Which of course is because methane is about 20 times more potent of a greenhouse gas than CO2.

Next, making clothing probably produces no more CO2 than making paper does. In fact, probably less. But what last longer. Paper products or warm clothing. Also, if the plant making the clothing used electricty from solar pannels and wind power, they would take much less CO2 to produce. Another thing is that in Germany, they have been going toward solar energy in a big way. And they receive far less sunlight than we do here in the U.S. Why don't we do the same thing here? Because oil and gas companies, as well as the automotive industry can't make as much money off something that is free.

Your starvation and smallpox examples are so weak

So weak and so not ideal.

Also, if the plant making the clothing used electricty from solar pannels and wind power, they would take much less CO2 to produce.

What about the CO2 from the coal or nat gas plant that needs to spin up every time the wind slows or a cloud blocks the sun?
High tech equipment doesn't work very well with fluctuating current, eh?

Another thing is that in Germany, they have been going toward solar energy in a big way.

Yeah, so much that they had to burn more lignite.
Good stuff, right?

Because oil and gas companies, as well as the automotive industry can't make as much money off something that is free.

Solar and wind are free? I guess we can stop wasting billions to subsidize it. Thanks!

First, you use solar and wind to produce more than you need. The rest you store for when there is no wind or sun. Next, I don't know what "lignite" is. But I take it that it is a form of coal. Well if they didn't have the solar energy that they have, they would probably be burning more of it. Next, today we had both sun and wind. Did you pay for any of it?

First, you use solar and wind to produce more than you need.

You make it sound so easy. How many thousands of square miles will we need?

Next, I don't know what "lignite" is.

If only we could harness the energy of all the things you don't know.......

Well if they didn't have the solar energy that they have, they would probably be burning more of it.

Or they could use something reliable and useful, like nat gas or nuclear........

Next, today we had both sun and wind. Did you pay for any of it?

Based on the stupid subsidies we have in place, probably.

First of all, wind energy isn't even needed. There are more than enough rooftops do do the job. Also, what if we were to start paving roads and parking lots with durable pannels that were transluicent enough to let light through. There is enough pavement in the U.S. to cover the state of West Virginia. Next, you need to worry about what I do know. Next, let me put it this way. What if you paid absolutely nothing for solar and wind. Would the sun still shine and the wind blow?

Solar panels don't do well being driven over. No quick solution to that. Furthermore, even tiny amounts of dirt or oil would destroy the efficiency.. And pointing directly UP at the sky is not the optimum installation angle. Want me to go on???

First, if they were underneath an inch or two of durable yet fairly translucent material, you could drive a tank over them. Next, there is probably light that will filter through a layer of sand. Also, any oil or dirt on the road would probably be pretty thin. And not likely to stop much sunlight. But if it got really thick and dark, all you need to do is send a streetsweeper over it. Also, of we switched over to all electric cars, as we should, there wouldn't be that much, if any, oil on the streets to begin with. Next any material that would difuse the light going through it would also collect light at any angle. And you can go on if you want to. It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

 

[Unkotare]

Can't wait to get back to the racism connection..

I can help. Humans cause pollution. They are also responsible for things like deforrestation. In some countries, they use cattle as currency. And cattle are also hard on the environment and produce a lot of methane. Many like to have lots of children for cheap labor and as a sort of Social Security. Etc. etc. etc. Obviously, the more humans there are, the worse things will get. The population of White people isn't rising. In some places, it may even be going down a little. But every single day, there are about 228,000 more people on the planet than there was the day before. Taking muslims and mexicans as an example, apparently a lot of those overpopulating non-white lowlifes want to invade, (migrate) to areas where White people live. "Racism" is the best way to stop that.

The birth rate in Mexico is plummeting, you dunce. So is the birth rate among Latino immigrants in the US.


There is no over population. It is an old myth that only mental defectives like you still cling to.

 

[krypto]

Why can't you give me the formula, the ratio of CO2 to temperature?

X CO2 causes Y warming.

What is X? What is Y?

Why can't you tell me this?

View attachment 75228

If I want to know the sum of squares to find the slop in a regression analysis I can use the above formula.

You see in real science, in legitimate science, things are quantifiable, testable, verifiable, repeatable.

But then AGW, just like Astrology or parapsychology is not legitimate, not science at all.

Yes fetus, they sure do. Next, "I" am the wrong person to lie to. Next, a couple of years ago, for example, the entire continent of Greenland experienced melting for the first time. Even mountain tops. Was that a con? I have a documentary to suggest to you. It's called "Greedy Lying Bastards." One of the things you can see is the CEO of EXXON admitting that human caused global warming was a reality. If anybody would have reason to tell your kind of lies about HCGW, he would. So what does that have to say about your position on the matter.

Let's ditch this nasty fable of "all of Greenland melting for the first time".. Not unusual in a warm period for LARGE portions of surface ice to melt and then refreeze. Doesn't predict a great loss except thru some sublimation because of clear skies and the sun. And the "first time"? Well that's since we've had the ABILITY TO OBSERVE a quick surface melt of an entire Greenland. Roughly since 1975 when the first reliable satellites went up. --- Not since forever is it? OR -- maybe no one was LOOKING hard enough for an event like that until it became to lucrative to find it..

And it turns out -- the scientists at Exxon called out predictions that were FAR MORE ACCURATE than what the "established" climate science had made about the same time. They should be given credit for the BETTER scientific projections -- not scorned. The "real" climate scientist predictions from that same era --- the ones that PURPOSELY frightened tiny minds in the public --- have all failed miserably.. So the CEO admits his people figured out how warming more CO2 would contribute. They were conservative and they were RIGHT !!! And it's not now the fucking disaster that the GW "establishment believed it would be. They should be HONORED for their research..

See -- it's not enough to say that man is causing some GW -- You need to accurately state HOW much warming to allow society to adapt. And the GW theory is that we're gonna reach a "tipping point" at which the Earth just destroys it's climate system. That's NOT part of what Exxon admitted. And it's not actually likely a real scenario..

First, I've heard it all before. The disappearance or thinning of the polar ice caps is just part of some natural cycle. Well I guess for you, it is better to be sorry than safe. Next, "as it turns out," I said what I said. The CEO of EXXON admitted on camera, (though it was a hidden camera) that human caused global warming was a reality. End of story.

Next, I will tell you a story that never seems to end. When something is going on that it would be unprofitable to put an end to, those in power promise to study the problem further. Into infinity. That way, nothing will change. But you don't have to know absolutely every little thing about human caused global warming to know that it is a problem that must be dealt with.

Next, I will tell you what the "real scenario" is likely to be. HCGW will create more methane release from tundra and shallow parts of the ocean. This will cause more warming. Causing more methane release. In an exponential effect, things will start to get so bad so fast, you will shit your pants. And metaphorically speaking, most of the life on earth will start to die off before the shit has had time to run down your leg.

I figured out where you got this Ecology and Racism crap.. You caught it from THIS GUY apparently..

Islamophobia and Ecological Disasters -- How they are related??????

I didn't get it from anywhere. I just looked at the obvious.

Well there is in that current event is a dedicated leftist America hater that has the same agenda as you do. Except ---- he's claiming that GW is accelerating racism against Islam (or some damn thing I can't navigate).. I think the 2 of you ought to meet...

Don't worry about what about what other people say. Focus more on what I say.

 

[flacaltenn]

Your starvation and smallpox examples are so weak

So weak and so not ideal.

Also, if the plant making the clothing used electricty from solar pannels and wind power, they would take much less CO2 to produce.

What about the CO2 from the coal or nat gas plant that needs to spin up every time the wind slows or a cloud blocks the sun?
High tech equipment doesn't work very well with fluctuating current, eh?

Another thing is that in Germany, they have been going toward solar energy in a big way.

Yeah, so much that they had to burn more lignite.
Good stuff, right?

Because oil and gas companies, as well as the automotive industry can't make as much money off something that is free.

Solar and wind are free? I guess we can stop wasting billions to subsidize it. Thanks!

First, you use solar and wind to produce more than you need. The rest you store for when there is no wind or sun. Next, I don't know what "lignite" is. But I take it that it is a form of coal. Well if they didn't have the solar energy that they have, they would probably be burning more of it. Next, today we had both sun and wind. Did you pay for any of it?

First, you use solar and wind to produce more than you need.

You make it sound so easy. How many thousands of square miles will we need?

Next, I don't know what "lignite" is.

If only we could harness the energy of all the things you don't know.......

Well if they didn't have the solar energy that they have, they would probably be burning more of it.

Or they could use something reliable and useful, like nat gas or nuclear........

Next, today we had both sun and wind. Did you pay for any of it?

Based on the stupid subsidies we have in place, probably.

First of all, wind energy isn't even needed. There are more than enough rooftops do do the job. Also, what if we were to start paving roads and parking lots with durable pannels that were transluicent enough to let light through. There is enough pavement in the U.S. to cover the state of West Virginia. Next, you need to worry about what I do know. Next, let me put it this way. What if you paid absolutely nothing for solar and wind. Would the sun still shine and the wind blow?

Solar panels don't do well being driven over. No quick solution to that. Furthermore, even tiny amounts of dirt or oil would destroy the efficiency.. And pointing directly UP at the sky is not the optimum installation angle. Want me to go on???

First, if they were underneath an inch or two of durable yet fairly translucent material, you could drive a tank over them. Next, there is probably light that will filter through a layer of sand. Also, any oil or dirt on the road would probably be pretty thin. And not likely to stop much sunlight. But if it got really thick and dark, all you need to do is send a streetsweeper over it. Also, of we switched over to all electric cars, as we should, there wouldn't be that much, if any, oil on the streets to begin with. Next any material that would difuse the light going through it would also collect light at any angle. And you can go on if you want to. It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

Every effort is made to NOT diffuse the light. In fact, much work has been done to CONCENTRATE it. Why do think all those commercial solar farm pictures you see are not pointing straight up to the sky? If they are gimbaled -- they might SOMETIMES,.. But if they are installed stationary -- they are southward pointing at an optimum angle for that latitude..

You dream on.. It just doesn't pan out. A TREE, a building, even the shadows from the traffic itself would make this less than merely devastingly POOR economic performance.. Should I go on???

Not to mention that this only supplies power about 6 hours a day..

 

[krypto]

It might take up to 50 (fifty) years, but how "scientific" do you think it will be when most of the life on earth is extinct.

it won't be. I suggest you do a little research. If you do, you will find that when it has been even warmer than it is today the plant and animal life has blossomed. The most recent species explosion occurred 55 million years ago during the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum and other than some benthic forams that died in some very localized areas (most likely do to anoxic conditions) the rest of the flora and fauna exploded in both diversity and sheer numbers.

EVERY time you look at the paleo record the facts are clear, when it has been warmer it has been better. FAR better. The end is nigh BS that you idiots spew is just that, BS. There is ZERO empirical evidence to support a single one of the predictions that global warming will lead to mass extinction. It amazes me that supposedly thinking people can look at the billions of years of Earths history and ignore it in favor of predictions made by idiots who have never been correct.

Here's a fact for you.....did you know that the well known charlatan Sylvia Brown has a better predictive rate than your so called experts? And not just a little better, her hit rate is significantly better than ANY of your experts.

That's just sad. But, it just lends further proof that the cult of AGW is just that, a religious cult. You have no facts to back up one iota of your belief, but who needs facts when you have "faith"?

You must be insane. As it is now, there are areas of the planet where createurs that have been arouns sinse before dinosaurs existed that have to hide from the heat of the day. And you think it will be just fine and dandy if the planet got even hotter? Give me a break. Also, you are right about it having been far hotter in the distant past. So hot that methane was less likely to accumulate. Since then, our planet has generally been on a cooling trend. Under such conditions methane is more likely to accumulate. Such as in methane hydrate ice in the ocean and in tundra. As things now stand, I have seen videos of that ice melting and bubbling up to the surface. I have also seen people punch holes in the ice of some lake far up north and set the gas coming out on fire. As the planet warms, all of this is likely to increase and have an exponential effect.

Uh.. Time out. Sit down. You telling me that there are species who see a normal 30 or 40 deg swing in their NORMAL environment that are suffering because of a 1 degC in the past century or so??? The temperature swings DAILY in most environments far exceed 1degC..

I'm not talking about temperature swings. I'm talking about the heat they avoid right now. As in, things are already too hot for them. What do you think that will mean as the planet heats up more.

Hey.. The heat they "avoid" right now is only 1deg MORE than what their ancestors avoided in 1885. Think a bark beetle CARES about 1deg ???

They would probably prefer it if it was one degree less. Just a few days ago I was watching some nature show about ants in some desert. For some reason, they like to gather some food during the day. They only have minutes that they can be out in the sun before it kills them. If it was one degree cooler, more would survive.

 

[flacaltenn]

it won't be. I suggest you do a little research. If you do, you will find that when it has been even warmer than it is today the plant and animal life has blossomed. The most recent species explosion occurred 55 million years ago during the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum and other than some benthic forams that died in some very localized areas (most likely do to anoxic conditions) the rest of the flora and fauna exploded in both diversity and sheer numbers.

EVERY time you look at the paleo record the facts are clear, when it has been warmer it has been better. FAR better. The end is nigh BS that you idiots spew is just that, BS. There is ZERO empirical evidence to support a single one of the predictions that global warming will lead to mass extinction. It amazes me that supposedly thinking people can look at the billions of years of Earths history and ignore it in favor of predictions made by idiots who have never been correct.

Here's a fact for you.....did you know that the well known charlatan Sylvia Brown has a better predictive rate than your so called experts? And not just a little better, her hit rate is significantly better than ANY of your experts.

That's just sad. But, it just lends further proof that the cult of AGW is just that, a religious cult. You have no facts to back up one iota of your belief, but who needs facts when you have "faith"?

You must be insane. As it is now, there are areas of the planet where createurs that have been arouns sinse before dinosaurs existed that have to hide from the heat of the day. And you think it will be just fine and dandy if the planet got even hotter? Give me a break. Also, you are right about it having been far hotter in the distant past. So hot that methane was less likely to accumulate. Since then, our planet has generally been on a cooling trend. Under such conditions methane is more likely to accumulate. Such as in methane hydrate ice in the ocean and in tundra. As things now stand, I have seen videos of that ice melting and bubbling up to the surface. I have also seen people punch holes in the ice of some lake far up north and set the gas coming out on fire. As the planet warms, all of this is likely to increase and have an exponential effect.

Uh.. Time out. Sit down. You telling me that there are species who see a normal 30 or 40 deg swing in their NORMAL environment that are suffering because of a 1 degC in the past century or so??? The temperature swings DAILY in most environments far exceed 1degC..

I'm not talking about temperature swings. I'm talking about the heat they avoid right now. As in, things are already too hot for them. What do you think that will mean as the planet heats up more.

Hey.. The heat they "avoid" right now is only 1deg MORE than what their ancestors avoided in 1885. Think a bark beetle CARES about 1deg ???

They would probably prefer it if it was one degree less. Just a few days ago I was watching some nature show about ants in some desert. For some reason, they like to gather some food during the day. They only have minutes that they can be out in the sun before it kills them. If it was one degree cooler, more would survive.

It gets cold in the desert at night. They ought to work then.. That one degree is not their largest problem in life.. The day to day changes are much larger than that..

 

[krypto]

Let's ditch this nasty fable of "all of Greenland melting for the first time".. Not unusual in a warm period for LARGE portions of surface ice to melt and then refreeze. Doesn't predict a great loss except thru some sublimation because of clear skies and the sun. And the "first time"? Well that's since we've had the ABILITY TO OBSERVE a quick surface melt of an entire Greenland. Roughly since 1975 when the first reliable satellites went up. --- Not since forever is it? OR -- maybe no one was LOOKING hard enough for an event like that until it became to lucrative to find it..

And it turns out -- the scientists at Exxon called out predictions that were FAR MORE ACCURATE than what the "established" climate science had made about the same time. They should be given credit for the BETTER scientific projections -- not scorned. The "real" climate scientist predictions from that same era --- the ones that PURPOSELY frightened tiny minds in the public --- have all failed miserably.. So the CEO admits his people figured out how warming more CO2 would contribute. They were conservative and they were RIGHT !!! And it's not now the fucking disaster that the GW "establishment believed it would be. They should be HONORED for their research..

See -- it's not enough to say that man is causing some GW -- You need to accurately state HOW much warming to allow society to adapt. And the GW theory is that we're gonna reach a "tipping point" at which the Earth just destroys it's climate system. That's NOT part of what Exxon admitted. And it's not actually likely a real scenario..

First, I've heard it all before. The disappearance or thinning of the polar ice caps is just part of some natural cycle. Well I guess for you, it is better to be sorry than safe. Next, "as it turns out," I said what I said. The CEO of EXXON admitted on camera, (though it was a hidden camera) that human caused global warming was a reality. End of story.

Next, I will tell you a story that never seems to end. When something is going on that it would be unprofitable to put an end to, those in power promise to study the problem further. Into infinity. That way, nothing will change. But you don't have to know absolutely every little thing about human caused global warming to know that it is a problem that must be dealt with.

Next, I will tell you what the "real scenario" is likely to be. HCGW will create more methane release from tundra and shallow parts of the ocean. This will cause more warming. Causing more methane release. In an exponential effect, things will start to get so bad so fast, you will shit your pants. And metaphorically speaking, most of the life on earth will start to die off before the shit has had time to run down your leg.

See -- now that's the problem here. I admit that more CO2 in the atmos means "some" temperature elevation. I ADMIT IT. Just like you "THINK" the Exxon plead guilty to hiding sometthing. But here's the rub. That's NOT the question that defines GW theory. GW 'science' took the REAL warming powers of CO2 and greatly exaggerated them with speculations about positive feedbacks and runaway conditions and "magic multipliers" to the basic warming power of CO2. THAT is where the real questions are. Not as simply as "is it warming and could man be contributing to that". But the media and politicians rely on folks not following the science deeper than the sound bites and the MASSIVE PR campaign.

Which relates directly into your "new story".. ..... about those massive methane calthrates thawing.
Turns out -- the recent climate history of the planet is a series of FOUR repetitive DEEP and LONG Ice Ages that were punctuated with much shorter "climate optimums" like the one we live in. When the Great Lakes were under a MILE of ice -- there was enough "thawing" to remove them COMPLETELY from the planet. During those periods of thaw --- the CO2 and methane were climbing astronomically because of methane/CO2 released from the frozen land and oceans. The AMOUNTS of GH gases released were HUGE compared to what's left in the tundra regions and under cold seas. Very LITTLE is left to thaw.

So if this "positive feedback" of thawing buried calthrates is gonna cause runaway GW NOW --- why didn't those much more MASSIVE thaws -- involving 16 or 18degC swings CONTINUE to runaway those previous 4 times? Why wouldn't ZOOMING LEVELS of CO2 and methane continue to thaw every last bit of frozen methane calthrates back then? Do we really believe that a mere 2degC average Global change is sufficient to "end it all"? I don't..

Climate science is a fairly new discipline. And it grew at a time when our ability to OBSERVE the present state of the climate improved tremendously. But settling all that science has not yet happened. A lot of folks want to pretend it's all in the books.

First of all, I never said that EXXON pled guilty to anything. All I said was that on a hidden cameria at an EXXON stock holders meeting, the CEO of EXXON admitted that human caused global warming was a reality. Next, you sure do talk a load of crap. For example, you bring up what happened in the past. Well in the past, what was happening with volcanoes was probably pretty much what is happening today. Which is that each year they release about 200 million tons of CO2 into the biosphere. But humans are now responsible for the release of 26.8 BILLION tons of CO2 each year.

How wonderful to find a single solid fact in this quaking bog of misinformation.
.

Well if its numbers you want.. The oceans toss up about 350 Gtons of CO2 every year. The land about an equal amount. So man's 30 Gtons is about 5%.. Then the land and oceans also SINK about that same 700Gtons plus (we think) about 1/2 of man's emissions. So man's contribution to this CO2 cycle that ends up "in the atmos" is about 2.5% of the total cycle. And in fact -- it's pretty much all fungible. Since "old carbon" CO2 is also produced by the land and oceans.

Man also gets cheated for being billed for domestic animals which are a appreciable part of the emissions.

Imagine that. If we REALLY KNEW how this cycle balances out -- we'd have to know it to far less than 1% errors. And we don't.. These are pretty much estimates and not "settled science"...

If we were 1% off on the amount the ocean emits and sinks --- it would be significant -- wouldn't it?

What you have to say about the amount that nature puts out is absolutely meaningless. The point is that what humans are responsible for releasing, or keeping from being absorbed through deforrestation, is making quite an impact. Next, as I said before, you don't have to know absolutely everything about everything to see that there is a problem. But refusing to see is no solution to any problem.

 

[krypto]

First, you use solar and wind to produce more than you need. The rest you store for when there is no wind or sun. Next, I don't know what "lignite" is. But I take it that it is a form of coal. Well if they didn't have the solar energy that they have, they would probably be burning more of it. Next, today we had both sun and wind. Did you pay for any of it?

First, you use solar and wind to produce more than you need.

You make it sound so easy. How many thousands of square miles will we need?

Next, I don't know what "lignite" is.

If only we could harness the energy of all the things you don't know.......

Well if they didn't have the solar energy that they have, they would probably be burning more of it.

Or they could use something reliable and useful, like nat gas or nuclear........

Next, today we had both sun and wind. Did you pay for any of it?

Based on the stupid subsidies we have in place, probably.

First of all, wind energy isn't even needed. There are more than enough rooftops do do the job. Also, what if we were to start paving roads and parking lots with durable pannels that were transluicent enough to let light through. There is enough pavement in the U.S. to cover the state of West Virginia. Next, you need to worry about what I do know. Next, let me put it this way. What if you paid absolutely nothing for solar and wind. Would the sun still shine and the wind blow?

There are more than enough rooftops do do the job.

How much would it cost? How useful is it at night or on cloudy days?

Also, what if we were to start paving roads and parking lots with durable pannels that were transluicent enough to let light through.

As long as we're building stuff that hasn't been invented yet, let's go straight to fusion.

Next, you need to worry about what I do know.

It's more fun to laugh at your idiocy.

What if you paid absolutely nothing for solar and wind.

Are you hitting the medical marijuana?

How much would it cost if the life on earth went extinct. Next, it would be useful enough when you stored the excess. It HAS been invented. What would you prefer. Plastic or glass. Next, you're the idiot. And maybe you should start smoking weed. Your debates couldn't get any worse.

How much would it cost if the life on earth went extinct.

It would be free.

Next, it would be useful enough when you stored the excess.

So beyond the massive cost for the panels, we all need thousands of pounds of lead batteries in each home and business, to store the excess?
That's a relief, I thought you were pushing for something environmentally friendly.

What would you prefer. Plastic or glass.

I prefer reliable energy that actually works. That leaves your "road panels" out.

Your debates couldn't get any worse.

I agree, my debates with grade school intellects like you are unsatisfying.

First, for example, you can't build or sell many cars with only dead people around. Next, it probably didn't cost the pharaohs much to build pyramids. Pretty much all they had to do was tell the people to do it, and they did it. And just about nothing can be as useless to the average person as a pyramid. But solar pannels are useful. Next, battery technology has advanced far beyond led acid batteries. Massive capicators could also be used. Energy can also be stored as heat.

Next, what I am talking about is reliable energy. And easy to do technology. That leaves my "road pannels" in. Next, I can see how your being defeated in debate can be unsatisfying to you. It must kill you that it comes from a high school dropout.

 

[krypto]

Can't wait to get back to the racism connection..

I can help. Humans cause pollution. They are also responsible for things like deforrestation. In some countries, they use cattle as currency. And cattle are also hard on the environment and produce a lot of methane. Many like to have lots of children for cheap labor and as a sort of Social Security. Etc. etc. etc. Obviously, the more humans there are, the worse things will get. The population of White people isn't rising. In some places, it may even be going down a little. But every single day, there are about 228,000 more people on the planet than there was the day before. Taking muslims and mexicans as an example, apparently a lot of those overpopulating non-white lowlifes want to invade, (migrate) to areas where White people live. "Racism" is the best way to stop that.

The birth rate in Mexico is plummeting, you dunce. So is the birth rate among Latino immigrants in the US.


There is no over population. It is an old myth that only mental defectives like you still cling to.

Is that the best you can do? Lies? The birth rate in mexico is probably the same as it ever was. Also, I have heard that latinos are the fastest growing ethnic group in the U.S. They also have mexicans of a sort in Canadia. They call them native peoples. They are the fastest growing ethnic group there too. It is probably just a shortcoming of the species. It doesn't matter which part of the Western Hemisphere they come from. Also, I showed you the graph of human population growth before. It isn't a myth. Or are you going to tell me that there were over 7 billion people on the planet 50 years ago.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

First, you use solar and wind to produce more than you need.

You make it sound so easy. How many thousands of square miles will we need?

Next, I don't know what "lignite" is.

If only we could harness the energy of all the things you don't know.......

Well if they didn't have the solar energy that they have, they would probably be burning more of it.

Or they could use something reliable and useful, like nat gas or nuclear........

Next, today we had both sun and wind. Did you pay for any of it?

Based on the stupid subsidies we have in place, probably.

First of all, wind energy isn't even needed. There are more than enough rooftops do do the job. Also, what if we were to start paving roads and parking lots with durable pannels that were transluicent enough to let light through. There is enough pavement in the U.S. to cover the state of West Virginia. Next, you need to worry about what I do know. Next, let me put it this way. What if you paid absolutely nothing for solar and wind. Would the sun still shine and the wind blow?

There are more than enough rooftops do do the job.

How much would it cost? How useful is it at night or on cloudy days?

Also, what if we were to start paving roads and parking lots with durable pannels that were transluicent enough to let light through.

As long as we're building stuff that hasn't been invented yet, let's go straight to fusion.

Next, you need to worry about what I do know.

It's more fun to laugh at your idiocy.

What if you paid absolutely nothing for solar and wind.

Are you hitting the medical marijuana?

How much would it cost if the life on earth went extinct. Next, it would be useful enough when you stored the excess. It HAS been invented. What would you prefer. Plastic or glass. Next, you're the idiot. And maybe you should start smoking weed. Your debates couldn't get any worse.

How much would it cost if the life on earth went extinct.

It would be free.

Next, it would be useful enough when you stored the excess.

So beyond the massive cost for the panels, we all need thousands of pounds of lead batteries in each home and business, to store the excess?
That's a relief, I thought you were pushing for something environmentally friendly.

What would you prefer. Plastic or glass.

I prefer reliable energy that actually works. That leaves your "road panels" out.

Your debates couldn't get any worse.

I agree, my debates with grade school intellects like you are unsatisfying.

First, for example, you can't build or sell many cars with only dead people around. Next, it probably didn't cost the pharaohs much to build pyramids. Pretty much all they had to do was tell the people to do it, and they did it. And just about nothing can be as useless to the average person as a pyramid. But solar pannels are useful. Next, battery technology has advanced far beyond led acid batteries. Massive capicators could also be used. Energy can also be stored as heat.

Next, what I am talking about is reliable energy. And easy to do technology. That leaves my "road pannels" in. Next, I can see how your being defeated in debate can be unsatisfying to you. It must kill you that it comes from a high school dropout.

Energy can also be stored as heat.

That is an awesome idea! How would you suggest we turn it back into useful electricity?

Next, what I am talking about is reliable energy.

How many hours a day would your "road panel" generate useful amounts of electricity?
How about in the winter, when it's covered with snow?

It must kill you that it comes from a high school dropout.

Yeah, mocking a high school dropout and his moronic ideas isn't very satisfying.

 

[krypto]

First, you use solar and wind to produce more than you need. The rest you store for when there is no wind or sun. Next, I don't know what "lignite" is. But I take it that it is a form of coal. Well if they didn't have the solar energy that they have, they would probably be burning more of it. Next, today we had both sun and wind. Did you pay for any of it?

First, you use solar and wind to produce more than you need.

You make it sound so easy. How many thousands of square miles will we need?

Next, I don't know what "lignite" is.

If only we could harness the energy of all the things you don't know.......

Well if they didn't have the solar energy that they have, they would probably be burning more of it.

Or they could use something reliable and useful, like nat gas or nuclear........

Next, today we had both sun and wind. Did you pay for any of it?

Based on the stupid subsidies we have in place, probably.

First of all, wind energy isn't even needed. There are more than enough rooftops do do the job. Also, what if we were to start paving roads and parking lots with durable pannels that were transluicent enough to let light through. There is enough pavement in the U.S. to cover the state of West Virginia. Next, you need to worry about what I do know. Next, let me put it this way. What if you paid absolutely nothing for solar and wind. Would the sun still shine and the wind blow?

Solar panels don't do well being driven over. No quick solution to that. Furthermore, even tiny amounts of dirt or oil would destroy the efficiency.. And pointing directly UP at the sky is not the optimum installation angle. Want me to go on???

First, if they were underneath an inch or two of durable yet fairly translucent material, you could drive a tank over them. Next, there is probably light that will filter through a layer of sand. Also, any oil or dirt on the road would probably be pretty thin. And not likely to stop much sunlight. But if it got really thick and dark, all you need to do is send a streetsweeper over it. Also, of we switched over to all electric cars, as we should, there wouldn't be that much, if any, oil on the streets to begin with. Next any material that would difuse the light going through it would also collect light at any angle. And you can go on if you want to. It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

Every effort is made to NOT diffuse the light. In fact, much work has been done to CONCENTRATE it. Why do think all those commercial solar farm pictures you see are not pointing straight up to the sky? If they are gimbaled -- they might SOMETIMES,.. But if they are installed stationary -- they are southward pointing at an optimum angle for that latitude..

You dream on.. It just doesn't pan out. A TREE, a building, even the shadows from the traffic itself would make this less than merely devastingly POOR economic performance.. Should I go on???

Not to mention that this only supplies power about 6 hours a day..

Do you know what is worse than having a solar pannel that doesn't have sunlight directly over it? Not having a solar pannel at all. Also, slight imperfections could be put into glass that would act like built in reflectors and direct sunlight from any angle downward. Not that it would really be necessary. Need proof? Get a solar pannel and put a piece of wax paper over it. Which would cause the light reaching it to be diffuse. Hook it up to a multimeter and see if it still works. Also, please go on. Maybe you can tell me why there are only leaves on one side of a tree or something.

 

[krypto]

First of all, wind energy isn't even needed. There are more than enough rooftops do do the job. Also, what if we were to start paving roads and parking lots with durable pannels that were transluicent enough to let light through. There is enough pavement in the U.S. to cover the state of West Virginia. Next, you need to worry about what I do know. Next, let me put it this way. What if you paid absolutely nothing for solar and wind. Would the sun still shine and the wind blow?

There are more than enough rooftops do do the job.

How much would it cost? How useful is it at night or on cloudy days?

Also, what if we were to start paving roads and parking lots with durable pannels that were transluicent enough to let light through.

As long as we're building stuff that hasn't been invented yet, let's go straight to fusion.

Next, you need to worry about what I do know.

It's more fun to laugh at your idiocy.

What if you paid absolutely nothing for solar and wind.

Are you hitting the medical marijuana?

How much would it cost if the life on earth went extinct. Next, it would be useful enough when you stored the excess. It HAS been invented. What would you prefer. Plastic or glass. Next, you're the idiot. And maybe you should start smoking weed. Your debates couldn't get any worse.

How much would it cost if the life on earth went extinct.

It would be free.

Next, it would be useful enough when you stored the excess.

So beyond the massive cost for the panels, we all need thousands of pounds of lead batteries in each home and business, to store the excess?
That's a relief, I thought you were pushing for something environmentally friendly.

What would you prefer. Plastic or glass.

I prefer reliable energy that actually works. That leaves your "road panels" out.

Your debates couldn't get any worse.

I agree, my debates with grade school intellects like you are unsatisfying.

First, for example, you can't build or sell many cars with only dead people around. Next, it probably didn't cost the pharaohs much to build pyramids. Pretty much all they had to do was tell the people to do it, and they did it. And just about nothing can be as useless to the average person as a pyramid. But solar pannels are useful. Next, battery technology has advanced far beyond led acid batteries. Massive capicators could also be used. Energy can also be stored as heat.

Next, what I am talking about is reliable energy. And easy to do technology. That leaves my "road pannels" in. Next, I can see how your being defeated in debate can be unsatisfying to you. It must kill you that it comes from a high school dropout.

Energy can also be stored as heat.

That is an awesome idea! How would you suggest we turn it back into useful electricity?

Next, what I am talking about is reliable energy.

How many hours a day would your "road panel" generate useful amounts of electricity?
How about in the winter, when it's covered with snow?

It must kill you that it comes from a high school dropout.

Yeah, mocking a high school dropout and his moronic ideas isn't very satisfying.

It is being done right now at various solar farms out west. One was is using liquid sodium. Next, that'w why I said that use use enough to make MORE than you need. The rest can be stored and used when there is no sunlight. Also, inless the snow is pretty thick, solar pannels will still create electricty. But they may only work as well as on a cloudy day until the snowplows come through. Next, consider yourself lucky that you don't have this high school dropout mocking you. Because that it would be justified would kill you even more.

 

[Unkotare]

Can't wait to get back to the racism connection..

I can help. Humans cause pollution. They are also responsible for things like deforrestation. In some countries, they use cattle as currency. And cattle are also hard on the environment and produce a lot of methane. Many like to have lots of children for cheap labor and as a sort of Social Security. Etc. etc. etc. Obviously, the more humans there are, the worse things will get. The population of White people isn't rising. In some places, it may even be going down a little. But every single day, there are about 228,000 more people on the planet than there was the day before. Taking muslims and mexicans as an example, apparently a lot of those overpopulating non-white lowlifes want to invade, (migrate) to areas where White people live. "Racism" is the best way to stop that.

The birth rate in Mexico is plummeting, you dunce. So is the birth rate among Latino immigrants in the US.


There is no over population. It is an old myth that only mental defectives like you still cling to.

Is that the best you can do? Lies? The birth rate in mexico is probably the same as it ever was. .........

http://www.economist.com/node/15959332


What the Plummeting Hispanic Birthrate Means for the U.S. Economy


Demographics: Birth rate fall and prospect of longer life cloud Mexico’s future - FT.com


U.S. Birth Rate Falls to a Record Low; Decline Is Greatest Among Immigrants


Why is the teen birth rate falling?


From what I hear, you are willfully ignorant. This is the difference between sitting on your ass somewhere imagining things and actually learning things. By 2050, if trends continue, Mexico is likely to have a lower birthrate than the US. Your racism isn't why you're stupid, but it's not helping.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

There are more than enough rooftops do do the job.

How much would it cost? How useful is it at night or on cloudy days?

Also, what if we were to start paving roads and parking lots with durable pannels that were transluicent enough to let light through.

As long as we're building stuff that hasn't been invented yet, let's go straight to fusion.

Next, you need to worry about what I do know.

It's more fun to laugh at your idiocy.

What if you paid absolutely nothing for solar and wind.

Are you hitting the medical marijuana?

How much would it cost if the life on earth went extinct. Next, it would be useful enough when you stored the excess. It HAS been invented. What would you prefer. Plastic or glass. Next, you're the idiot. And maybe you should start smoking weed. Your debates couldn't get any worse.

How much would it cost if the life on earth went extinct.

It would be free.

Next, it would be useful enough when you stored the excess.

So beyond the massive cost for the panels, we all need thousands of pounds of lead batteries in each home and business, to store the excess?
That's a relief, I thought you were pushing for something environmentally friendly.

What would you prefer. Plastic or glass.

I prefer reliable energy that actually works. That leaves your "road panels" out.

Your debates couldn't get any worse.

I agree, my debates with grade school intellects like you are unsatisfying.

First, for example, you can't build or sell many cars with only dead people around. Next, it probably didn't cost the pharaohs much to build pyramids. Pretty much all they had to do was tell the people to do it, and they did it. And just about nothing can be as useless to the average person as a pyramid. But solar pannels are useful. Next, battery technology has advanced far beyond led acid batteries. Massive capicators could also be used. Energy can also be stored as heat.

Next, what I am talking about is reliable energy. And easy to do technology. That leaves my "road pannels" in. Next, I can see how your being defeated in debate can be unsatisfying to you. It must kill you that it comes from a high school dropout.

Energy can also be stored as heat.

That is an awesome idea! How would you suggest we turn it back into useful electricity?

Next, what I am talking about is reliable energy.

How many hours a day would your "road panel" generate useful amounts of electricity?
How about in the winter, when it's covered with snow?

It must kill you that it comes from a high school dropout.

Yeah, mocking a high school dropout and his moronic ideas isn't very satisfying.

It is being done right now at various solar farms out west. One was is using liquid sodium. Next, that'w why I said that use use enough to make MORE than you need. The rest can be stored and used when there is no sunlight. Also, inless the snow is pretty thick, solar pannels will still create electricty. But they may only work as well as on a cloudy day until the snowplows come through. Next, consider yourself lucky that you don't have this high school dropout mocking you. Because that it would be justified would kill you even more.

Yes, a vat of liquid sodium in my basement would be much easier to handle than tons of lead batteries.

Also, inless the snow is pretty thick, solar pannels will still create electricty.

Really? What % would be lost?

Next, consider yourself lucky that you don't have this high school dropout mocking you.

Why? An idiot mocking me would be kinda pathetic.
Even more pathetic than you have been.