Elementary school shooting

[Si modo]

[

Then link it, puke.

I've linked to teh Kellerman study a bunch of times.

And even though it's validity has been verified by the CDC, the gun nutters will still go out there and claim, "THAT'S NOT TRUE"

Kellerman study if proven fact. A gun in the house is 43 times more likely to kill a member of the household than an intruder.

Arthur Kellermann - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In his first publication on the subject, in 1986, Kellermann studied all gunshot related deaths in Seattle over six years, and found that
54% of firearm-related deaths occurred in the home where the gun was kept
70.5% of these (firearm-related deaths in the home where the gun was kept) involved handguns
0.5% of these (firearm-related deaths in the home where the gun was kept) involved an intruder shot while attempting entry
1.8% of these (firearm-related deaths in the home where the gun was kept) were judged by police as self-defense
there were 1.3 times as many accidental firearm-related deaths in the home where the gun was kept as self-protection shootings
there were 4.6 times as many criminal firearm-related homicides in the home where the gun was kept as self-protection shootings
there were 37 times as many suicides in the home where the gun was kept as self-protection shootings.

Can Owning a Gun Really Triple the Owner's Chances of being Murdered?
The Anatomy of an Implausible Causal Mechanism

GARY KLECK

Abstract

Using a case-control design comparing homicide victims with matched nonvictims, Kellermann et al. (1993) concluded that keeping a gun in one's home increased the risk of being murdered by a factor of 2.7. The authors' underlying assumption was that a significant elevation in homicide risk derived from the risk of being murdered with a gun kept in the victim's home. This article shows that homicides are rarely committed with guns belonging to members of the victim's home and that such killings could be responsible for no more than a 2.4% increase in the relative risk of being murdered. Guns in one's own home have little to do with homicide risk. Scholars need to attend more closely to the mechanisms by which an alleged causal effect is supposed to operate and to consider their plausibility before concluding that an association reflects a causal effect.
​

[emphasis added] Can Owning a Gun Really Triple the Owner's Chances of being Murdered?

That's not 43 times more, Joe. Not even close.

 

[squeeze berry]

You forget the other NRA tactic of blaming the victims for not being armed themselves.

link?

Does the name Russell Pearce ring any bells?
Russell Pearce Blames Victims for Dark Knight Massacre (w/Update) - Phoenix - News - Feathered Bastard

here I thought you were going to come up with a Wayne Lapierre quote.

FAIL

 

[longknife]

SANDY HOOK ELEMENTARY: The Sickness of the Media

by directorblue at Doug Ross @ Journal: SANDY HOOK ELEMENTARY: The Sickness of the Media blogs this:

During a special service at St. John's Church in Sandy Hook:
"Bunch of over-zealous photographers were just asked to leave."

with this followup

MEANWHILE, in the nation's safest city...

by directorblue

Chicago, Illinois must be the safest city in the U.S. because: (a) it has the most draconian gun restrictions; and (b) it resides in the state with the strictest firearm regulations in the country.

Shootings across the city Friday afternoon and night wounded at least ten people, according to Chicago police, including four teens in three separate South and West side attacks.

Read more with links at Doug Ross @ Journal: MEANWHILE, in the nation's safest city...

Rules of Gunfighting

by Craig Newmark at “These Are The 13 Rules Of Gunfighting Everyone Should Know” | Right Wing News

Here’s one: The average response time of a 911 call is 23 minutes, the response time of a .357 is 1400 feet per second.

Response

by Owen of Boots & Sabers blog


That’s about right: Here we go again | Rachel Lucas

Another horrific massacre by another psychopath, another inevitable several weeks of hyper-coverage and heartbreaking stories about innocent-child victims who are somehow more worthy of public displays of grief than all the other innocent-child victims of tragic death on the same day, another orgy of sickening anti-American smugness in the international press, and of course another shrieking chorus of poorly-thought-out demands for more gun control laws because evidently our “murder control” laws aren’t enough.

It’s downright Pavlovian.

A second mass shooting avoided on Friday

by Jazz Shaw @ A second mass shooting avoided on Friday « Hot Air

It looks like there might be one bit of good news from yesterday, if such is even possible. Police in Oklahoma are indicating that there was a second mass shooting in a school planned there for the same day, but sharp police work thwarted it before it got off the ground.

BARTLESVILLE, Okla. – A […]


New Details About Sandy Hook Shooting Suspect Adam Lanza

by Michael Kelley

New details are emerging about the troubling circumstances surrounding Adam Lanza, who allegedly shot and killed his mother Nancy at their home in Newtown, Conn. Friday morning before going to Sandy Hook Elementary school and killing 20 children, six adults and himself.

Read more: Who Was Adam Lanza, The Sandy Hook Shooter - Business Insider

More than 50 shots fired at Fashion Island mall; suspect held

Marcos Gurrola, 42, of Garden Grove is suspected of firing a handgun in the mall parking lot in Newport Beach. No one was hit.

From More than 50 shots fired at Fashion Island mall; suspect arrested - latimes.com


Thinking the Unthinkable

Michael holding a butterfly

In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it’s easy to talk about guns. But it’s time to talk about mental illness.

Read more of this horrified mother's story @ The Anarchist Soccer Mom: Thinking the Unthinkable courtesy of FARK

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I've linked to teh Kellerman study a bunch of times.

And even though it's validity has been verified by the CDC, the gun nutters will still go out there and claim, "THAT'S NOT TRUE"

Kellerman study if proven fact. A gun in the house is 43 times more likely to kill a member of the household than an intruder.

Arthur Kellermann - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In his first publication on the subject, in 1986, Kellermann studied all gunshot related deaths in Seattle over six years, and found that
54% of firearm-related deaths occurred in the home where the gun was kept
70.5% of these (firearm-related deaths in the home where the gun was kept) involved handguns
0.5% of these (firearm-related deaths in the home where the gun was kept) involved an intruder shot while attempting entry
1.8% of these (firearm-related deaths in the home where the gun was kept) were judged by police as self-defense
there were 1.3 times as many accidental firearm-related deaths in the home where the gun was kept as self-protection shootings
there were 4.6 times as many criminal firearm-related homicides in the home where the gun was kept as self-protection shootings
there were 37 times as many suicides in the home where the gun was kept as self-protection shootings.

The actual study by Arthur Kellermann from which that statistic is pulled doesn't say that. The number includes suicides. The study doesn't take into account defensive uses in which a shot was not fired (99% of the uses), and it doesn't reflect intruders avoiding homes with firearms inside.

I know that's the talking point. "No fair counting suicides!!!!"

It's bullshit. A gun in the house makes it a lot easier to kill yourself. In fact, the ONLY two gun fatalities I know of personally were sucides.

Joe I'm going to use wiki since you seem to like the source

1 Bleeding
1.1 Wrist cutting
2 Drowning
3 Suffocation
4 Hypothermia
5 Electrocution
6 Jumping from height
7 Firearms
8 Hanging

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_methods
Guns are one of the last choices to use.
What do you ban in that list?

 

[idb]

link?

Does the name Russell Pearce ring any bells?
Russell Pearce Blames Victims for Dark Knight Massacre (w/Update) - Phoenix - News - Feathered Bastard

here I thought you were going to come up with a Wayne Lapierre quote.

FAIL

Well...SURPRIIIISE!!!!
There are more nutters representing the gun lobby than you realised.

 

[squeeze berry]

[

The study by Arthur Kellermann from which that statistic is pulled doesn't say that. The number includes suicides. The study doesn't take into account defensive uses in which a shot was not fired (99% of the uses), and it doesn't reflect intruders avoiding homes with firearms inside.

No, and it doesn't include cases where the Hillbilly redneck father terrorized his family by threatening to shoot the family dog, either.

Kellerman found that for every INTRUDER killed, 43 HOUSEHOLD members were.

Which is pretty much good enough for me. The suicides are just as dead as the spouse who gets shot in an argument over who got the last sausage link.

Both of which are far more likely to happen than plugging a bad guy.

Who is saying crazy people should be allowed guns? Crazy people cannot buy any firearms and you need to stop saying they can it does nothing to promote your view but makes you into a liar.

Loughner, Holmes and Cho. All crazy. Able to buy guns with little difficulty.

And until you offer a way to keep them from buying guns, you condone their ability to do so.

bigot much?

 

[squeeze berry]

Does the name Russell Pearce ring any bells?
Russell Pearce Blames Victims for Dark Knight Massacre (w/Update) - Phoenix - News - Feathered Bastard

here I thought you were going to come up with a Wayne Lapierre quote.

FAIL

Well...SURPRIIIISE!!!!
There are more nutters representing the gun lobby than you realised.

Well...SURPRIIIISE!!!!
there are more liars and nutters from New Zealand than you realised

 

[LoneLaugher]

Posted long ago. You must have missed it. Maybe those massive digits got in the way.

I read the post..... still waiting liar.

Hey, I have an idea for you. If you call me a liar enough times.....like in every post addressed to me......maybe someone who doesn't know better will get the impression that I am a liar. Isn't that cool!

It is such an effective strategy.....maybe you should pass it on to some of your friends. Who knows, maybe a cable network will adopt it too.

 

[SFC Ollie]

No, it's based on pragmatism.

You don't need a fucking gun, and the cost of your lifestyle is too high for the rest of us to pay.

You don't need a fucking right to vote but you have one anyway.

There's a right to vote enshrined in the constitution.

There's only a right to militias in the second Amendment. If you aren't part of a well-regulated militia, you don't need a gun.

Now, personally, I'd have no problem with reasonable people having guns... if you guys could police yourselves. you simply refuse to do it.

So again, if we have to impose a bunch of laws on you, I'm completely good with that.

So who is "you guys"? I've owned weapons as long as i can remember, i have never had any reason to use my privately owned weapon on a person and hope that i never have to. Yet all you do is talk shit about my lifestyle when you know nothing about it....And then you hit us with these calls of racist and paint "you guys" with a broad brush....

Why don't you just quit while you can save some face....

 

[Si modo]

Posted long ago. You must have missed it. Maybe those massive digits got in the way.

I read the post..... still waiting liar.

Hey, I have an idea for you. If you call me a liar enough times.....like in every post addressed to me......maybe someone who doesn't know better will get the impression that I am a liar. Isn't that cool!

It is such an effective strategy.....maybe you should pass it on to some of your friends. Who knows, maybe a cable network will adopt it too.

I dunno, but I would imagine a poster knows more about himself than you do, yet you make claims as "facts" about a person whose name you don't even know.



That's pretty fucking stupid.

 

[SFC Ollie]

[

The study by Arthur Kellermann from which that statistic is pulled doesn't say that. The number includes suicides. The study doesn't take into account defensive uses in which a shot was not fired (99% of the uses), and it doesn't reflect intruders avoiding homes with firearms inside.

No, and it doesn't include cases where the Hillbilly redneck father terrorized his family by threatening to shoot the family dog, either.

Kellerman found that for every INTRUDER killed, 43 HOUSEHOLD members were.

Which is pretty much good enough for me. The suicides are just as dead as the spouse who gets shot in an argument over who got the last sausage link.

Both of which are far more likely to happen than plugging a bad guy.

Who is saying crazy people should be allowed guns? Crazy people cannot buy any firearms and you need to stop saying they can it does nothing to promote your view but makes you into a liar.

Loughner, Holmes and Cho. All crazy. Able to buy guns with little difficulty.

And until you offer a way to keep them from buying guns, you condone their ability to do so.

Most everyone i know has at least one gun in their house....Always have, and i cannot remember one person ever being shot or any accidental firings in any of those houses....You would think......

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Posted long ago. You must have missed it. Maybe those massive digits got in the way.

I read the post..... still waiting liar.

Hey, I have an idea for you. If you call me a liar enough times.....like in every post addressed to me......maybe someone who doesn't know better will get the impression that I am a liar. Isn't that cool!

It is such an effective strategy.....maybe you should pass it on to some of your friends. Who knows, maybe a cable network will adopt it too.

I have an idea why don't you prove it or shut the fuck up?

 

[LoneLaugher]

I read the post..... still waiting liar.

Hey, I have an idea for you. If you call me a liar enough times.....like in every post addressed to me......maybe someone who doesn't know better will get the impression that I am a liar. Isn't that cool!

It is such an effective strategy.....maybe you should pass it on to some of your friends. Who knows, maybe a cable network will adopt it too.

I dunno, but I would imagine a poster knows more about himself than you do, yet you make claims as "facts" about a person whose name you don't even know.



That's pretty fucking stupid.

I am more than willing to admit my mistake and apologize to the BR if he can just say something that makes me believe that he was once a police officer. He has said that he was. So far........not even an attempt.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I read the post..... still waiting liar.

Hey, I have an idea for you. If you call me a liar enough times.....like in every post addressed to me......maybe someone who doesn't know better will get the impression that I am a liar. Isn't that cool!

It is such an effective strategy.....maybe you should pass it on to some of your friends. Who knows, maybe a cable network will adopt it too.

I have an idea why don't you prove it or shut the fuck up?

I'm the forgiving sort, BR. I won't hold it against you. But believing what you say has become a bit difficult, as you can imagine. For some reason, I have a pretty accurate bullshit detector. Not perfect......but usually on target.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If there were people at the school who were armed they may have stopped the shooter.

Guess what? It is a pistol free zone, however, the psycho didn't care,

It only stoped law abiding people who could make a difference.

His mother was armed, and she's dead.

For all you know his mother had trigger locks on all her weapons.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If there were people at the school who were armed they may have stopped the shooter.

Guess what? It is a pistol free zone, however, the psycho didn't care,

It only stoped law abiding people who could make a difference.

The way to put out a fire is not adding gasoline. More guns aren't the answer. Eliminating the one tool that makes "Mass Shootings" "Mass" is the answer.

Ban weapons designed for military and law enforcement use to the general public. No one "needs" a semi or fully automatic firing system. No one "needs" a high capacity magazine. In fact, before such horrid weapons were made cheaply and in great quantities, there was no such thing as a "Mass Shooting".

No, the way to stop gun violence isn't adding more guns, it's subtracting them.

Isn't that what they said about alcohol and drugs?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

My goodness. A demand for a plan! Whatever shall I do? I think this really sweet cookie wants to catch me contradicting myself.....and thinks I will surely do so if I accept her sugary challenge.

Shall I discuss my ideal society? Or shall I consider the realities of our American society? Surely, if I choose one, she will reply to the other! Worry....worry...worry!

Listen here, miss.

I am a gun owner and have been one all my life. I am someone who has never fired a gun at another human being, but who thinks he could if the threat was clear. I like having my gun in my home. It is a little ol' thing...but it shoots real bullets and I can shoot straight. I don't anticipate ever having to give it up.

Now....I cannot imagine ever needing a weapon that can mow down a half dozen humans in a few seconds. I'm thinking that we could do something about those kinds of guns. You know....make it really hard to get one and even harder to get ammunition for one.
I'm not too confident that you and BigReb and Matthew, with your full arsenal, could hold off the US Military if they went nuts and decided to turn their weapons on the citizens. I'd probably live longer than you in that situation.

As I have said.....our system of government is based on the will of the people. And the will of the people is that we shall have the right to own guns. But I think that there is an appetite for a real discussion about what types of guns are necessary to meet the will of the people. I am advocating that we have that discussion. Being silly and equating bullets aimed and fired with car accidents and plane crashes......and an attempt to avoid having the discussion.....gets us nowhere fast. As we have seen in this thread.

Along with that discussion..........there is a need to discuss other causes of the increase in these types of slaughters. The guns need a finger. The finger is operated by a brain that has problems. Those problems were caused by something.

let me know if you want that ideal society plan too. My ideal society kicks ass!

You think a person has the right to self defense unless he is attacked by 6 people at once.

I have to admit I stopped reading your post at that point.

You think I said that?

You sure do take license.

Are you saying you didn't post this?

I cannot imagine ever needing a weapon that can mow down a half dozen humans in a few seconds. I'm thinking that we could do something about those kinds of guns.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

When he started getting prickly and personal with me and behaving as if he knows me by stereotyping me and lumping me into some group of posters here I realized I wasted my time. He's a lightweight with no real argument just an agenda he refuses to comment on in detail.

Oh no! YOU think I am a lightweight! This might be the end.

What is my agenda, genius?

I tried to discuss this issue respectfully with you in numerous posts and you danced around every question and then when cornered got personal. Honestly you are boring me now and there are too many other posters here to discuss this topic with to waste my time with childish crap. Besides I have to leave now anyhow. Enjoy your evening boss.

I stopped treating idiots with respect a long time ago. I find it easier to mock them.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Hey, I have an idea for you. If you call me a liar enough times.....like in every post addressed to me......maybe someone who doesn't know better will get the impression that I am a liar. Isn't that cool!

It is such an effective strategy.....maybe you should pass it on to some of your friends. Who knows, maybe a cable network will adopt it too.

I dunno, but I would imagine a poster knows more about himself than you do, yet you make claims as "facts" about a person whose name you don't even know.



That's pretty fucking stupid.

I am more than willing to admit my mistake and apologize to the BR if he can just say something that makes me believe that he was once a police officer. He has said that he was. So far........not even an attempt.

What does it take to make you understand I don't give a fuck if you believe me or not?
How are Police supposed to talk on the internet? Do you want my arrest record, the citations I issued? Court docket numbers? How many investigation I was a part of?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Murderers think the murder laws are "unjust". Rapists think the sexual assault laws are "unjust".

That's pretty much the most restarded thing you've said yet, and frankly, you say retarded things all day.

You really should stop posting when you are drunk. Name one murderer that ever argued that laws against murder were unjust.

Murderers don't argue anything, their lawyers do.

Are you always this stupid, or just when your medications aren't kicking in?

Why don't you just admit you are afflicted with posting with your head up your ass?