Even if Biden wins, it doesn’t matter.

[Zorro!]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

If Democrats weren’t so easily offended and stopped telling me that trans girls are identical to biological girls then maybe we could have a civil discussion on how to better this country. Currently you and I can barely hold a civil discussion but you want the rest of the country to fall in line. Do explain how. Thanks.

I don’t think this is about anyone falling in line.

By fall in line I mean become civil toward one another.

You and I HAVE held civil conversations. So...where does change start?

It starts by taking people who disagree with you off ignore on this site. It starts with more listening and less talking. It starts with us trying our best not to be offensive but trying 10x harder not to be offended. Racial jokes are funny. Religious jokes are funny. Sex jokes are funny. Allow America to be funny again without feeling guilty about it. Lastly, it starts with the Left halting its divisive rhetoric that this country is systematically racist, was built on racism and taking down statues of our founding fathers.

Again...I wish I had the “informative rating back.

We have gone from a society where we had a socially agreed upon code of behavior, called manners, that laid out how we were expected to behave - to a society where anything goes in the name of free speech, where we have a right to offend and by consequence a right to not be offended. I don’t know how you fix that.

If your goal is to be able to stop expressions that you find offensive, all you have to do is look at academia to see where that leads, suddenly every view that one does not agree with is "offensive".
BLM gear is "not offensive" so allowed.
MAGA hats are "offensive" and some folks think it's ok to physically assault anyone in a MAGA hate because they declared them to be "Nazi's" and it's "OK" to beat a Nazi. If you have spoken out against that, that's to your credit.

If your lamentation is that this election result is not a mandate for extremist agenda, you are right. Many leaders on the Left are sounding the warning:

On a House caucus call today, Democrat Representative Abigail Spanberger, reportedly in an agitated state, warned that Democrats “lost races we shouldn’t have lost.” She further claimed that “defund police almost cost me my race because of an attack ad. Don’t say socialism ever again. Need to get back to basics. . . . If we run this race again we will get f***ng torn apart again in 2022.”

I think she is right.

Former Missouri senator Claire McCaskill had this to say: “Whether you are talking guns or . . . abortion . . . or gay marriage and rights for ‘transsexuals’ and other people who we as a party ‘look after’ and make sure they are treated fairly. As we circled the issues we left voters behind and Republicans dove in.”

If you exclude half the electorate, you have excluded enough to defeat you. The math is fairly simple. This is a self-correcting process that keeps government aligned with who wields legitimate power in this county, The Electorate.

Democrats are grousing today that their candidates in Florida and elsewhere were falsely labeled “socialist.” Perhaps Nancy Pelosi shouldn’t pose with a gaggle of Marxists on the cover of Rolling Stone. Perhaps Democrats should treat Bernie Sanders as a fringe crank rather than a comrade who’s just moving a tad too quickly. Maybe arguing “democratic” socialism is "the good kind" doesn’t quite do it for the folks in Des Moines.

What are voters in Texas supposed to make of every major presidential Democrat presidential candidate, including Joe Biden, giving their blessing to the authoritarian Green New Deal? "Fact"-checkers had to work overtime to help Biden walk back those endorsements of fracking bans, of defunding the police, and of confiscating guns.

McCaskill has already apologized for her use of the word “transsexuals.” Unlike progressive urban dwellers, one suspects the vast majority of suburban Americans have zero clue what McCaskill is sorry about. They may even believe that letting genetic boys compete with their daughters in track and field is ridiculous. They probably wouldn’t be crazy about being accused of being transphobic for taking this rational position.

Identitarianism that’s now overwhelmed left-wing politics isn’t working. We just went through four years solid of liberal pundits accusing every political opponent of being a crypto-Nazi, and yet Democrats lost ground among black and Latino voters. That well is nearly dry, face that.

A white working-class dad in suburban Pittsburgh or the Latina daughter of a Venezuelan immigrant in Miami is not identifying with the tragically ludicrous ravings of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez' pabulum describing modern progressivism.

Our real divisions are not racial, they are class. The Left is largely professional, urban, secular, wealthy and poor. The Right is largely working/middleclass, rural and religious.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

If Democrats weren’t so easily offended and stopped telling me that trans girls are identical to biological girls then maybe we could have a civil discussion on how to better this country. Currently you and I can barely hold a civil discussion but you want the rest of the country to fall in line. Do explain how. Thanks.

I don’t think this is about anyone falling in line.

By fall in line I mean become civil toward one another.

You and I HAVE held civil conversations. So...where does change start?

It starts by taking people who disagree with you off ignore on this site. It starts with more listening and less talking. It starts with us trying our best not to be offensive but trying 10x harder not to be offended. Racial jokes are funny. Religious jokes are funny. Sex jokes are funny. Allow America to be funny again without feeling guilty about it. Lastly, it starts with the Left halting its divisive rhetoric that this country is systematically racist, was built on racism and taking down statues of our founding fathers.

Again...I wish I had the “informative rating back.

We have gone from a society where we had a socially agreed upon code of behavior, called manners, that laid out how we were expected to behave - to a society where anything goes in the name of free speech, where we have a right to offend and by consequence a right to not be offended. I don’t know how you fix that.

If your goal is to be able to stop expressions that you find offensive, all you have to do is look at academia to see where that leads, suddenly every view that one does not agree with is "offensive".
BLM gear is "not offensive" so allowed.
MAGA hats are "offensive" and some folks think it's ok to physically assault anyone in a MAGA hate because they declared them to be "Nazi's" and it's "OK" to beat a Nazi. If you have spoken out against that, that's to your credit.

If your lamentation is that this election result is not a mandate for extremist agenda, you are right. Many leaders on the Left are sounding the warning:

On a House caucus call today, Democrat Representative Abigail Spanberger, reportedly in an agitated state, warned that Democrats “lost races we shouldn’t have lost.” She further claimed that “defund police almost cost me my race because of an attack ad. Don’t say socialism ever again. Need to get back to basics. . . . If we run this race again we will get f***ng torn apart again in 2022.”

I think she is right.

Former Missouri senator Claire McCaskill had this to say: “Whether you are talking guns or . . . abortion . . . or gay marriage and rights for ‘transsexuals’ and other people who we as a party ‘look after’ and make sure they are treated fairly. As we circled the issues we left voters behind and Republicans dove in.”

If you exclude half the electorate, you have excluded enough to defeat you. The math is fairly simple. This is a self-correcting process that keeps government aligned with who wields legitimate power in this county, The Electorate.

Democrats are grousing today that their candidates in Florida and elsewhere were falsely labeled “socialist.” Perhaps Nancy Pelosi shouldn’t pose with a gaggle of Marxists on the cover of Rolling Stone. Perhaps Democrats should treat Bernie Sanders as a fringe crank rather than a comrade who’s just moving a tad too quickly. Maybe arguing “democratic” socialism is "the good kind" doesn’t quite do it for the folks in Des Moines.

What are voters in Texas supposed to make of every major presidential Democrat presidential candidate, including Joe Biden, giving their blessing to the authoritarian Green New Deal? "Fact"-checkers had to work overtime to help Biden walk back those endorsements of fracking bans, of defunding the police, and of confiscating guns.

McCaskill has already apologized for her use of the word “transsexuals.” Unlike progressive urban dwellers, one suspects the vast majority of suburban Americans have zero clue what McCaskill is sorry about. They may even believe that letting genetic boys compete with their daughters in track and field is ridiculous. They probably wouldn’t be crazy about being accused of being transphobic for taking this rational position.

Identitarianism that’s now overwhelmed left-wing politics isn’t working. We just went through four years solid of liberal pundits accusing every political opponent of being a crypto-Nazi, and yet Democrats lost ground among black and Latino voters. That well is nearly dry, face that.

A white working-class dad in suburban Pittsburgh or the Latina daughter of a Venezuelan immigrant in Miami is not identifying with the tragically ludicrous ravings of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez' pabulum describing modern progressivism.

Our real divisions are not racial, they are class. The Left is largely professional, urban, secular, wealthy and poor. The Right is largely working/middleclass, rural and religious.

AOC, a dumb bimbo, is now the spokesperson for the Donkeys

 

[OKTexas]

Yeah, if we had a basic civics test to register to vote, you commies would lose about 70% of your easily led lemmings.

I'm a commie? I guess you haven't read many of my posts.

If the shoe doesn't fit, you shouldn't be offended.

Well I am offended. You're making a false claim. I'm vehemently anti-socialist. So, prove it, or shut the fuck up.

It's pretty damn simple, when you call for compromise with evil, you get nothing but evil. There's been way too much of that over the last 50 years. That's exactly what the commies want, taking the country inch by inch. I say we don't give them another inch.

.

 

[Devils_Advocate]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

The failure to win big in 2020 for the Democratic Party should be placed at Nancy Pelosi feet for her gamble to think she could outsmart Trump and his base.

Coyote, you and the left must understand that not every American is Progressive and some of us are Joe Manchin and Mark Kelly left and that mean Blue Dog Left and no we do not want a one size fit all type of government to solve our daily lives.

Biden has won and the GOP is in good position to make bigger gains in 2022 for the House and still retain the Senate then and by 2024 will most likely beat Harris for the Oval Office unless the Democratic Party wises up and run someone like Mark Kelly.

Progressive Politics sell in New York City, Chicago and San Francisco but it does not sell in mainstream America and to make the radical changes that many of you want is impossible and frankly will never happen.

Stop blaming Trump or the American voting base for the rejection and start realizing many Americans do not want the brand of Socialism that the Democratic Socialist of America are selling ( Cortez and Sanders and Company )...

Many will disagree with me but what America need all the time is a moderate and stronger leadership at State and Local levels of Government and less radical leadership from either side or we will be getting those like Trump every other election.

The Democratic Party had this election won and as usual they screwed it up and let me say if the House does not jettison Pelosi from her speakership job then expect a major defeat in 2022.

The Democratic Party need fresh new leadership and not the Dinosaurs from the past and it is time for change and the Democratic Party need to shift to left leaning moderate and not Democratic Socialist of America!

So as you get ready to write your response again the failure is on Pelosi and she need to go or the failure will continue...

 

[flacaltenn]

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

I like the way you navigated there.. LOL.. No one's worried about "what, AT BEST will happen".. If you're conscious and smart -- you're worried about what, AT WORST, will happen.. Because Biden is not strong enough or smart enough to defuse the coming battles in his OWN PARTY..

Want me to list the possibilities for ya? Or do you know what Nancy/Chuck are gonna do.. Because Nancy/Chuck don't know what they're gonna do... You place WAAY too much confidence in this crew.

So if you LIST all the major ways Trump ACTUALLY destroyed "your America" -- I'll list the ugly shit that everyone else in this country is worried about when the Dems are in charge..

 

[Daryl Hunt]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

A President Biden will open up the borders and admit millions of Illegals which will change the demographics, even if he doesn't have the Senate and can't admit new liberal states and pack the courts.

I expect the Lincoln Project to be big in 2024 to try and capture the nomination, but if the Trumps are still around, Don Jr. will be the opposition in the primaries to Romney or Flake.

 

[flacaltenn]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

The failure to win big in 2020 for the Democratic Party should be placed at Nancy Pelosi feet for her gamble to think she could outsmart Trump and his base.

Coyote, you and the left must understand that not every American is Progressive and some of us are Joe Manchin and Mark Kelly left and that mean Blue Dog Left and no we do not want a one size fit all type of government to solve our daily lives.

Biden has won and the GOP is in good position to make bigger gains in 2022 for the House and still retain the Senate then and by 2024 will most likely beat Harris for the Oval Office unless the Democratic Party wises up and run someone like Mark Kelly.

Progressive Politics sell in New York City, Chicago and San Francisco but it does not sell in mainstream America and to make the radical changes that many of you want is impossible and frankly will never happen.

Stop blaming Trump or the American voting base for the rejection and start realizing many Americans do not want the brand of Socialism that the Democratic Socialist of America are selling ( Cortez and Sanders and Company )...

Many will disagree with me but what America need all the time is a moderate and stronger leadership at State and Local levels of Government and less radical leadership from either side or we will be getting those like Trump every other election.

The Democratic Party had this election won and as usual they screwed it up and let me say if the House does not jettison Pelosi from her speakership job then expect a major defeat in 2022.

The Democratic Party need fresh new leadership and not the Dinosaurs from the past and it is time for change and the Democratic Party need to shift to left leaning moderate and not Democratic Socialist of America!

So as you get ready to write your response again the failure is on Pelosi and she need to go or the failure will continue...

Super brilliant man.. They started with 14 candidates and ended up with a "No on Trump" candidate that never really articulated any solutions and didn't discuss issues. Even REFUSED ARROGANTLY to tell voters his intentions on "packing the courts"..

You nailed it.. It's the PROGRESSIVE AGENDA that all 14 candidates SUPPORTED in the primary that is the POLARIZING motion here. That's MUCH further left than the GOP has moved right.. In fact, one can truly argue that with a populist example like Trump -- he moved his party closer to center..

 

[Daryl Hunt]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

the people havent won in quite a while.....

I don’t know...but this election, tbe historically huge turn out, what does that say about the people?

THE ONLY HUGE TURN OUT FOR BIDEN WAS MILLIONS OF FAKE VOTES FOR HIM, WHILE THE TRUMP POLLSTERS WERE BLOCKED OUT.

 

[Wyatt earp]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

The failure to win big in 2020 for the Democratic Party should be placed at Nancy Pelosi feet for her gamble to think she could outsmart Trump and his base.

Coyote, you and the left must understand that not every American is Progressive and some of us are Joe Manchin and Mark Kelly left and that mean Blue Dog Left and no we do not want a one size fit all type of government to solve our daily lives.

Biden has won and the GOP is in good position to make bigger gains in 2022 for the House and still retain the Senate then and by 2024 will most likely beat Harris for the Oval Office unless the Democratic Party wises up and run someone like Mark Kelly.

Progressive Politics sell in New York City, Chicago and San Francisco but it does not sell in mainstream America and to make the radical changes that many of you want is impossible and frankly will never happen.

Stop blaming Trump or the American voting base for the rejection and start realizing many Americans do not want the brand of Socialism that the Democratic Socialist of America are selling ( Cortez and Sanders and Company )...

Many will disagree with me but what America need all the time is a moderate and stronger leadership at State and Local levels of Government and less radical leadership from either side or we will be getting those like Trump every other election.

The Democratic Party had this election won and as usual they screwed it up and let me say if the House does not jettison Pelosi from her speakership job then expect a major defeat in 2022.

The Democratic Party need fresh new leadership and not the Dinosaurs from the past and it is time for change and the Democratic Party need to shift to left leaning moderate and not Democratic Socialist of America!

So as you get ready to write your response again the failure is on Pelosi and she need to go or the failure will continue...

Super brilliant man.. They started with 14 candidates and ended up with a "No on Trump" candidate that never really articulated any solutions and didn't discuss issues. Even REFUSED ARROGANTLY to tell voters his intentions on "packing the courts"..

You nailed it.. It's the PROGRESSIVE AGENDA that all 14 candidates SUPPORTED in the primary that is the POLARIZING motion here. That's MUCH further left than the GOP has moved right.. In fact, one can truly argue that with a populist example like Trump -- he moved his party closer to center..

Exactly no new wars...

 

[Daryl Hunt]

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

I like the way you navigated there.. LOL.. No one's worried about "what, AT BEST will happen".. If you're conscious and smart -- you're worried about what, AT WORST, will happen.. Because Biden is not strong enough or smart enough to defuse the coming battles in his OWN PARTY..

Want me to list the possibilities for ya? Or do you know what Nancy/Chuck are gonna do.. Because Nancy/Chuck don't know what they're gonna do... You place WAAY too much confidence in this crew.

So if you LIST all the major ways Trump ACTUALLY destroyed "your America" -- I'll list the ugly shit that everyone else in this country is worried about when the Dems are in charge..

One problem. Most of the things that is listed of the bad things Rump did he actually did. But ,most of the fears of what Biden will do he hasn't done yet and are probably not going to be done. As much as the Rumpsters believe, a real President just doesn't have that much power. At any time, the Congress can step in and throttle almost anything a President tries to do. I think Congress has had enough of an out of control President and will actually start doing it's job instead of one side crying about it and the other side covering for it.

it's time to start healing America. You can join in or not. Your choice.

 

[OKTexas]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

View attachment 411707


It's you commies that were proposing fundamentally changing the system. You're the ones advocating a tyranny of the majority. So FOAD.

.

Commie commie commie.

That's all you can come up with.

Yep, you're a typical commie, you deflect instead of addressing what I said.

.

When you start with “you commies” you have already indicated a depth of ignorance that makes answering a serious a waste of time. Want a serious answer? Consider how you frame your statements.

I'll frame my statements as I chose, within the board rules, if you don't like it, don't respond.

.

 

[flacaltenn]

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this?

NOBODY has tried to CODIFY "rules of behavior and social norms" MORE then modern day Democrats. It's not even close.. What were you thinking here? The entire "political correctness" and "diversity points" paradigms are Progressive inventions and it get WORSE from there..

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad.

You mean like herding the Middle East into a more stable and peaceful order? You mean like making us "energy independent" and nullifying the whole "blood for oil" meme?

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s?

I just got the biggest gift from a politician with a "phone and pen" that ANY politician in my lifetime has given me.. I just bought a LEGAL PACK of 60W incandescent lightbulbs. LONG overdue.. And now I can SEE the brick exterior of my house and the brown aggregate driveway again.. And I don't feel like a alien hostage in my own home with blueish light at night. In fact, I'm running out TOMORROW to buy a couple dozen packages to get thru Biden's "dark winter"...

If we don't AGREE on THAT EOrder-- we're certainly not gonna agree on many of the others you might have in mind...

 

[OKTexas]

Every problem discussed here would be solved if we began to value education and critical thinking skills. Then as Hannah Arendt tells us, we’d collectively work toward what is in the best interests of ourselves AND others.

When OANN is considered to be a viable member of the 4th estate by the leader of the free world, we have a long way to go.

You should educate yourself, what you're talking about is constitutionally the responsibility of the States, not the feds. The biggest problem is people look to the feds to fix every boo-boo, that's not their freaking job.

.

 

[Devils_Advocate]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

The failure to win big in 2020 for the Democratic Party should be placed at Nancy Pelosi feet for her gamble to think she could outsmart Trump and his base.

Coyote, you and the left must understand that not every American is Progressive and some of us are Joe Manchin and Mark Kelly left and that mean Blue Dog Left and no we do not want a one size fit all type of government to solve our daily lives.

Biden has won and the GOP is in good position to make bigger gains in 2022 for the House and still retain the Senate then and by 2024 will most likely beat Harris for the Oval Office unless the Democratic Party wises up and run someone like Mark Kelly.

Progressive Politics sell in New York City, Chicago and San Francisco but it does not sell in mainstream America and to make the radical changes that many of you want is impossible and frankly will never happen.

Stop blaming Trump or the American voting base for the rejection and start realizing many Americans do not want the brand of Socialism that the Democratic Socialist of America are selling ( Cortez and Sanders and Company )...

Many will disagree with me but what America need all the time is a moderate and stronger leadership at State and Local levels of Government and less radical leadership from either side or we will be getting those like Trump every other election.

The Democratic Party had this election won and as usual they screwed it up and let me say if the House does not jettison Pelosi from her speakership job then expect a major defeat in 2022.

The Democratic Party need fresh new leadership and not the Dinosaurs from the past and it is time for change and the Democratic Party need to shift to left leaning moderate and not Democratic Socialist of America!

So as you get ready to write your response again the failure is on Pelosi and she need to go or the failure will continue...

Super brilliant man.. They started with 14 candidates and ended up with a "No on Trump" candidate that never really articulated any solutions and didn't discuss issues. Even REFUSED ARROGANTLY to tell voters his intentions on "packing the courts"..

You nailed it.. It's the PROGRESSIVE AGENDA that all 14 candidates SUPPORTED in the primary that is the POLARIZING motion here. That's MUCH further left than the GOP has moved right.. In fact, one can truly argue that with a populist example like Trump -- he moved his party closer to center..

I have my long hatred for Trump way before he ever thought about running for the Oval Office but I also know Trump is smarter than many give him credit for.

I will give Trump credit for keeping us out of major conflicts and trying to pull us off the World Stage as being police of the World.

I did disagree with him on his handling of Mexico and believe we as a nation need better trade relations with Mexico, Central and South America if we ( The United States of America ) want to limit China and Russia influence in our part of the World.

I am not a fan of Trump WWE style of Politics but it sell to his base and they believe him even when I know he is just selling them a lie.

Biden is not ushering in a new era and let be clear the person many of us should fear is not Trump or Biden but it is Harris because she is a heartbeat from being President once the count is done!

The Democratic Party ignores the outcry by those that voted for Trump and call his voting base ignorant and not worthy listening to and that is why the Democratic Party keep on losing when they should have won!

Has anyone realized that the Libertarian Candidate did better than expected?

Of course she did not have Johnson numbers but she did a lot more better than I would have expected and why?

The voting base is disgruntled and Trump and third party candidates are tapping into this!

Many on the left and right dismiss this and that is why we get someone like Trump and they think Trump is the radical when the fact is the two political parties have become so radical that we get someone like Trump to show us how insane all this has become!

How the hell did we end up with Biden?

Biden shouldn’t have been the candidate but when the Democratic Party field a majority of Democratic Socialist of America type and a ex-Republican ( Bloomberg ) then you can see how it happened and yet Biden could barely beat a very weaken Trump in a National Election!

So the Democratic Party need to wake up and realize they are the radical element that is being rejected even if they won the Oval Office because failing to capture the Senate and losing seats in the House when it was a clear path for a blue wave tell those like me the Democratic Party is the radical side and need change in leadership...

Ohhh, I am tired and need rest and will sleep!

 

[Daryl Hunt]

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this?

NOBODY has tried to CODIFY "rules of behavior and social norms" MORE then modern day Democrats. It's not even close.. What were you thinking here? The entire "political correctness" and "diversity points" paradigms are Progressive inventions and it get WORSE from there..

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad.

You mean like herding the Middle East into a more stable and peaceful order? You mean like making us "energy independent" and nullifying the whole "blood for oil" meme?

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s?

I just got the biggest gift from a politician with a "phone and pen" that ANY politician in my lifetime has given me.. I just bought a LEGAL PACK of 60W incandescent lightbulbs. LONG overdue.. And now I can SEE the brick exterior of my house and the brown aggregate driveway again.. And I don't feel like a alien hostage in my own home with blueish light at night. In fact, I'm running out TOMORROW to buy a couple dozen packages to get thru Biden's "dark winter"...

If we don't AGREE on THAT EOrder-- we're certainly not gonna agree on many of the others you might have in mind...

Wow, you are in for a rough life ahead of you. But like everything else, it will soften with time. If it doesn't......... The Party of the Rump is Gone, it's dead. The sooner you allow it to expire the better things will become for everyone.

 

[flacaltenn]

The gulf is too wide between the ideologies.

That only matters to ideologues.

The rest of the country -- the majority -- would rather see the ideologues get over themselves, drop the bullshit and start working together.

Unfortunately, the ideologues are much angrier and louder and therefore get most of the attention.

Folks cant' sit back and watch their govt get bigger and more powerful when the leadership is lightyears below their "Peter Principle" of competence and effort.. Not gonna watch the left try to push us into a DANGEROUSLY UNSTABLE electrical grid based on solar panels and wind toys..

The "divide" comes down to a few basics.

How BIG govt should be.

How much RISK in life can and should be tolerated.

Retaining or Reforming beyond recognition our Republic form of democracy..

The ability to speak freely,

Everything starts from there.
It's not the RIGHT pulling on all these things. This is obvious..

 

[Wyatt earp]

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

I like the way you navigated there.. LOL.. No one's worried about "what, AT BEST will happen".. If you're conscious and smart -- you're worried about what, AT WORST, will happen.. Because Biden is not strong enough or smart enough to defuse the coming battles in his OWN PARTY..

Want me to list the possibilities for ya? Or do you know what Nancy/Chuck are gonna do.. Because Nancy/Chuck don't know what they're gonna do... You place WAAY too much confidence in this crew.

So if you LIST all the major ways Trump ACTUALLY destroyed "your America" -- I'll list the ugly shit that everyone else in this country is worried about when the Dems are in charge..

One problem. Most of the things that is listed of the bad things Rump did he actually did. But ,most of the fears of what Biden will do he hasn't done yet and are probably not going to be done. As much as the Rumpsters believe, a real President just doesn't have that much power. At any time, the Congress can step in and throttle almost anything a President tries to do. I think Congress has had enough of an out of control President and will actually start doing it's job instead of one side crying about it and the other side covering for it.

it's time to start healing America. You can join in or not. Your choice.

Biden appears he won't be a in your face asshole like Trump.. I think he will govern with respect

I think he has a heart and comprehends both sides

This is a guy who used to take the subway to work in Washington

 

[theHawk]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

It’s still baffling that long time Dems hate President Trump so much. He fundamentally changed the GOP to focus on the everyday people and jobs, instead of being corporate ass kissers. Now the Dems are corporate ass kissers and do nothing serious to keep manufacturing jobs in this country.

All of your belief that President Trump is a “racist” and encourages conservatives to be racist is based on lies and is utter nonsense, a lie you choose to believe in to make you feel morally superior.

All the man wanted to do was change this country to a nation that can become a manufacturing powerhouse again, to allow every man and woman a chance to find work and advance in life. And he wanted to stop idiotic perpetual wars that have cost us trillions.

You people need to do some serious soul searching.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

I like the way you navigated there.. LOL.. No one's worried about "what, AT BEST will happen".. If you're conscious and smart -- you're worried about what, AT WORST, will happen.. Because Biden is not strong enough or smart enough to defuse the coming battles in his OWN PARTY..

Want me to list the possibilities for ya? Or do you know what Nancy/Chuck are gonna do.. Because Nancy/Chuck don't know what they're gonna do... You place WAAY too much confidence in this crew.

So if you LIST all the major ways Trump ACTUALLY destroyed "your America" -- I'll list the ugly shit that everyone else in this country is worried about when the Dems are in charge..

One problem. Most of the things that is listed of the bad things Rump did he actually did. But ,most of the fears of what Biden will do he hasn't done yet and are probably not going to be done. As much as the Rumpsters believe, a real President just doesn't have that much power. At any time, the Congress can step in and throttle almost anything a President tries to do. I think Congress has had enough of an out of control President and will actually start doing it's job instead of one side crying about it and the other side covering for it.

it's time to start healing America. You can join in or not. Your choice.

Biden appears he won't be a in your face asshole like Trump.. I think he will govern with respect

I think he has a heart and comprehends both sides

This is a guy who used to take the subway to work in Washington

Don't kid yourself.

Biden is a shithead.

And as for these fucks that want to heal America, why is it that they start out by saying "I can't believe you voted for Trump." Great way to start a healing conversation.

I've been asked that 3 times. Nobody will ask me because I informed that last person it was "none of your fucking business". I don't ask them how they can vote for a petrified piece of shit. But I have my suspicions.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this?

NOBODY has tried to CODIFY "rules of behavior and social norms" MORE then modern day Democrats. It's not even close.. What were you thinking here? The entire "political correctness" and "diversity points" paradigms are Progressive inventions and it get WORSE from there..

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad.

You mean like herding the Middle East into a more stable and peaceful order? You mean like making us "energy independent" and nullifying the whole "blood for oil" meme?

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s?

I just got the biggest gift from a politician with a "phone and pen" that ANY politician in my lifetime has given me.. I just bought a LEGAL PACK of 60W incandescent lightbulbs. LONG overdue.. And now I can SEE the brick exterior of my house and the brown aggregate driveway again.. And I don't feel like a alien hostage in my own home with blueish light at night. In fact, I'm running out TOMORROW to buy a couple dozen packages to get thru Biden's "dark winter"...

If we don't AGREE on THAT EOrder-- we're certainly not gonna agree on many of the others you might have in mind...

Wow, you are in for a rough life ahead of you. But like everything else, it will soften with time. If it doesn't......... The Party of the Rump is Gone, it's dead. The sooner you allow it to expire the better things will become for everyone.

Make me laugh.

Even with turncoat chickenshits like you, who deserve to catch COVID, we pretty much showed the world they can go fuck themselves.