Every pre-born baby is conceived by, loved by, and wanted by God. The “choice” is His.

[buttercup]

I think always/never dichotomies are harsh in many cases. Don't you?

`
That's my opinion. I've NEVER seen someone win or lose an abortion discussion...never. It's like rocking in a rocking chair. It gives a person something to do but never gets you anywhere but in your case, I suppose it's hard wired into you. Knock yourself out.

Well I changed my mind on abortion 100% around about 20 years ago, give or take. Went from being a pro-choice feminist to a pro-life conservative. Minds can absolutely be changed.

Same here. It happens. And believe it or not, I’ve even seen it happen because someone was influenced by reading these types of discussions. So Windparadox’s opinion may be based on her experience, but it’s not the reality. People do change their minds.

 

[SweetSue92]

Should we then tell children and adults who were "Severely neglected and abused" that it would have been better had they never been born, then? That's what you're saying, you know.

That isn't what I am saying and you are distorting it.

You said and I quote directly, "The repercussions of women that have had children and then severely neglected or abused them because they didn't want them in the first place."

So you're saying since the women didn't want them in the first place, and then neglected and/or abused them as a result, it would have been better if they had never been born. Right? I can't see another way around this. It's like saying, "See? These women didn't want their babies and then abused them." So what was the better option? Death?

You said and I quote, "Should we then tell children and adults who were "Severely neglected and abused" that it would have been better had they never been born, then?"

They already know that they were not wanted. You don't have to tell them anything---providing they manage to live through it. Abuse/neglect is often generational. So, looking forward then you know that it would clearly be better for a woman to have an abortion rather than have children that she clearly doesn't want.

Wow....you know it is better for someone to be killed in the womb than to be born? You must think you're God. I don't know that, and I would never say that to someone. "It would have been better if you were never born." The only time I can think I would say that is in the case of a known mass murderer--say, Hitler. Someone who did mass injustice on purpose. Otherwise, I'm not going to tell a human being it would have been better if they were never born.

But obviously you're perfectly fine playing God like that.

This is just one way we know we are very close to the End. Thank. God. Maranatha.

Oh? You mean like you are playing God and making that decision for someone else?

Nice try.

It's not their decision to make in the first place. It's not their life.

 

[Disir]

That isn't what I am saying and you are distorting it.

You said and I quote directly, "The repercussions of women that have had children and then severely neglected or abused them because they didn't want them in the first place."

So you're saying since the women didn't want them in the first place, and then neglected and/or abused them as a result, it would have been better if they had never been born. Right? I can't see another way around this. It's like saying, "See? These women didn't want their babies and then abused them." So what was the better option? Death?

You said and I quote, "Should we then tell children and adults who were "Severely neglected and abused" that it would have been better had they never been born, then?"

They already know that they were not wanted. You don't have to tell them anything---providing they manage to live through it. Abuse/neglect is often generational. So, looking forward then you know that it would clearly be better for a woman to have an abortion rather than have children that she clearly doesn't want.

Wow....you know it is better for someone to be killed in the womb than to be born? You must think you're God. I don't know that, and I would never say that to someone. "It would have been better if you were never born." The only time I can think I would say that is in the case of a known mass murderer--say, Hitler. Someone who did mass injustice on purpose. Otherwise, I'm not going to tell a human being it would have been better if they were never born.

But obviously you're perfectly fine playing God like that.

This is just one way we know we are very close to the End. Thank. God. Maranatha.

Oh? You mean like you are playing God and making that decision for someone else?

Nice try.

It's not their decision to make in the first place. It's not their life.

It is their decision to make. You don't have to agree with it. You are not the one that will have to contend with the ramifications of that decision.

 

[SweetSue92]

You said and I quote directly, "The repercussions of women that have had children and then severely neglected or abused them because they didn't want them in the first place."

So you're saying since the women didn't want them in the first place, and then neglected and/or abused them as a result, it would have been better if they had never been born. Right? I can't see another way around this. It's like saying, "See? These women didn't want their babies and then abused them." So what was the better option? Death?

You said and I quote, "Should we then tell children and adults who were "Severely neglected and abused" that it would have been better had they never been born, then?"

They already know that they were not wanted. You don't have to tell them anything---providing they manage to live through it. Abuse/neglect is often generational. So, looking forward then you know that it would clearly be better for a woman to have an abortion rather than have children that she clearly doesn't want.

Wow....you know it is better for someone to be killed in the womb than to be born? You must think you're God. I don't know that, and I would never say that to someone. "It would have been better if you were never born." The only time I can think I would say that is in the case of a known mass murderer--say, Hitler. Someone who did mass injustice on purpose. Otherwise, I'm not going to tell a human being it would have been better if they were never born.

But obviously you're perfectly fine playing God like that.

This is just one way we know we are very close to the End. Thank. God. Maranatha.

Oh? You mean like you are playing God and making that decision for someone else?

Nice try.

It's not their decision to make in the first place. It's not their life.

It is their decision to make. You don't have to agree with it. You are not the one that will have to contend with the ramifications of that decision.

So the arms and legs that get ripped off the torso in an abortion...those limbs belong to the mother? That DNA is the mother's DNA?

Hey I thought liberals were "the party of science"......

 

[Disir]

You said and I quote, "Should we then tell children and adults who were "Severely neglected and abused" that it would have been better had they never been born, then?"

They already know that they were not wanted. You don't have to tell them anything---providing they manage to live through it. Abuse/neglect is often generational. So, looking forward then you know that it would clearly be better for a woman to have an abortion rather than have children that she clearly doesn't want.

Wow....you know it is better for someone to be killed in the womb than to be born? You must think you're God. I don't know that, and I would never say that to someone. "It would have been better if you were never born." The only time I can think I would say that is in the case of a known mass murderer--say, Hitler. Someone who did mass injustice on purpose. Otherwise, I'm not going to tell a human being it would have been better if they were never born.

But obviously you're perfectly fine playing God like that.

This is just one way we know we are very close to the End. Thank. God. Maranatha.

Oh? You mean like you are playing God and making that decision for someone else?

Nice try.

It's not their decision to make in the first place. It's not their life.

It is their decision to make. You don't have to agree with it. You are not the one that will have to contend with the ramifications of that decision.

So the arms and legs that get ripped off the torso in an abortion...those limbs belong to the mother? That DNA is the mother's DNA?

Hey I thought liberals were "the party of science"......

I'm a liberal. Not a Democrat. Further, this is not a choice that you get to make. You are not the one that will deal with the repercussions.

 

[Dana7360]

It is indeed a great undertaking to assume to know what the Supreme One wills.

Thou shall not kill.
Be fruitful and multiply.

You just aren't happy with being able to follow your religion of choice.

Why?

Why do you believe you have the right to force your religion on complete strangers and the rest of our nation? Believe in your god all you want. No one is stoping you. However you're trying to stop me and other people who aren't christians from having the same rights as you and follow our religion of choice.

There are millions of Americans who aren't christians. We are so tired of only christians having the right to freedom of religion. For your information we who aren't christians have that exact same right and you have no right to force your religion on us.

So why not be happy to have the right to follow your faith? Stop trying to take that right from everyone else.

I don't believe in your bible. I don't believe in your god. So stop forcing it on me and millions of other Americans. We are so sick and tired of it.

No one is forcing you or anyone else to have an abortion. Why are you trying to force women to carry a pregnancy that they don't want?

And by the way, tell me what life is in an ectopic pregnancy.

I bet you don't even know what an ectopic pregnancy is and that there are only 2 outcomes to that situation. Either the woman has an abortion and lives or no abortion is performed and she dies. Over 65 thousand American women each year face an ectopic pregnancy. I guess you want all of them to die.

If you want to spend your life pregnant go for it but I have a feeling if you were a woman you wouldn't want to do that. I wouldn't be surprised if you're a man. It's easy for a man to say those things. You don't have to carry the pregnancy to term then raise that child.

Go pray in your church and follow your faith all you want. Stop forcing it on me and the rest of the nation.

 

[Dana7360]

if this is so ...why does the bible give instructions on how to abort?

Where does it do that?

It's funny how many who profess to be christians and followers of that god, don't know what's in the book they claim their god wrote. Even though it was written by humans.

Read the book of Numbers for heaven's sake. I used to be a christian and have read that book from cover to cover a few times. Though it was in the early 70s. I know what's in that book For instance the book of Genesis says when the christian god believes life starts. Which it's when air is taken through the nose, not when an egg is fertilized.

I know that in the book of Numbers 5:11 to 5:31 your god tells you how to perform an abortion. Here it is since you're too lazy to read the book you believe your god wrote and is his words:

11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah[a] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.

16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”

 

[Dana7360]

The christian god and bible most certainly approves of abortion. You people just need to actually read that whole book. Not just parts you've been brainwashed with.


What the Bible says about Abortion
Abortion is not murder. A fetus is not considered a human life.
If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life. -- Exodus 21:22-23
The Bible places no value on fetuses or infants less than one month old.
And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver. -- Leviticus 27:6
Fetuses and infants less than one month old are not considered persons.
Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers, by their families: every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them. And Moses numbered them according to the word of the LORD. -- Numbers 3:15-16
God sometimes approves of killing fetuses.
And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. -- Numbers 31:15-17
(Some of the non-virgin women must have been pregnant. They would have been killed along with their unborn fetuses.)
Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. -- Hosea 9:14
Yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb. -- Hosea 9:16
Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up. -- Hosea 13:16
God sometimes kills newborn babies to punish their parents.
Because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. -- 2 Samuel 12:14
God sometimes causes abortions by cursing unfaithful wives.
The priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell. And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen. ...
And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed. -- Numbers 5:21-21, 27-28
God's law sometimes requires the execution (by burning to death) of pregnant women.
Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt. -- Genesis 38:24

 

[playtime]

for the fundies, it pretty much is imo. & money --- which is the root of all evil... is always a CONsideration, the at the very least food or medical care wouldn't be taken away so easily & the first 'go tos' for budget cuts.

I think that there is an argument for poverty is a sin stemming from the Protestant work ethic--Max Weber.

Again, because it's overly simplified. The Democratic Party and the Republican Party are all about making sure the regular people do without before they stop funding their special projects and corporations. So, it's oversimplified slogan crap and presented as either/or. That's how propaganda works.

Take the same group of people on the ground and you come up with different solutions and very different conversations.

& yet jesus didn't preach politics.

Christology wasn't fully developed until the 7th century and it was political from the get go. It's neither here nor there.

At some point, you have to choose whether you want to get shit done and arrive at solutions to force a change or............succumb to propaganda and verbally abuse each other on the interwebs as you are told to do.

wait- what?

i am 'TOLD' to do? what does that even mean? lol... am i being paid too?

No. I don't think you are paid. Propaganda tactics employed by those who have a vested interest in keeping us divided in order to maintain the status quo.

true enough - but i deal in facts... not mere propaganda. when i hear something, i research it enough to usually know what i am talking about- even when it's an opinion based reply.

 

[deanrd]

For Planned Parenthood to defy Him is demonic and diabolical evil.

Yet god killed every first born in Egypt, not to mention all the babies killed in the flood. Maybe it’s a different god?

But they were born. That’s why Republicans feel that’s OK.

 

[playtime]

For Planned Parenthood to defy Him is demonic and diabolical evil.

But once the little fucker is born, then the choice is for anyone with a gun to do as they fucking please. Bang bang little fucker, you're dead.

That's the free will kicking in

uh-huh... what say you about trump signing off to get rid of the protection against the mentally ill having the right to own a gun when they can't even manage their own legal affairs? their free will is defective.

 

[whitehall]

Can you use that same logic for "post born" babies?

 

[K9Buck]

You just aren't happy with being able to follow your religion of choice. Why? Why do you believe you have the right to force your religion on complete strangers and the rest of our nation?

I'm not forcing my religion on anyone. I'm of the opinion to "live and let live", until it adversely affects a third person. And abortion most definitely and adversely affects a third person. That's where I draw the line.

 

[playtime]

You're in no position to question what He does

Sure I am... because one time I asked him to cure my Mom's cancer... and she died.

No God. And we are all better off for it.

Death is inevitable, we are not immortal. Sorry your mother passed but God doesn't grant all prayers and He has His reasons for all He does. At times we don't understand but we have to trust in Him.

I've lost people very dear to me, I've never blamed God, I understand that is life (or the end of it) but they were not killed because they might be an inconvenience, might be a hindrance or simply unwanted. There is something wrong with a society that allows for that and if you support it I have a feeling I know why God didn't answer your prayers

The last sentence might come off as harsh, but it is wholly Biblical. We are free will humans. We have the free will to push God away. Since we are actually made in His image, He too can push us away as well--and at some point, He does and He will.

Much is made, for example, about "submitted marriage" and what is a woman's obligation to her husband in Christianity. But the Bible makes clear that if a husband abuses his wife, God will NOT EVEN HEAR HIS PRAYERS.

And that is about as serious as it gets.

but the only biblical sanctioned means to a divorce is infidelity. abuse is not good enough.

 

[K9Buck]

You're obviously pleased to have your life. Why do you oppose others having theirs?

only difference between us you ( and take all rest of childrens with yourself ) and me ( and those who are followers of mum aka recognized agent of Lord Krishna ) is this that you are doing everything whimsically.

and im not spoiled child like you. for i have mum ( aka recognzied agent of Lord Krishna ) behind me.

and im trying to live my life according to the higher authorities, but you are too superior than even mother. ( say authority ) and im not superior but ( certainly ) under him.
_______________
and it is certain fact that by the grace of mum im pleased or happy with my life ( now whatever the hell condition may stay ) but why are you so much envious of me ? ( for you also obviously seems so much envious )

I think you're a sandwich short of a picnic. I just don't believe that women should kill their offspring. You apparently think it's great.

 

[playtime]

For Planned Parenthood to defy Him is demonic and diabolical evil.

But once the little fucker is born, then the choice is for anyone with a gun to do as they fucking please. Bang bang little fucker, you're dead.

So you support infanticide, correct? That is seriously sickening.

that was called 'sarcasm', marion.

 

[playtime]

How many would give a shit if it was an illegal immigrant brown woman having an abortion in the US?

Me.

A baby is a baby. Brown, black, any color. Every baby is made in the image of God. The question is: does that give any person the right to flood into our borders and basically squat. No, it doesn't. But that doesn't mean you endorse infanticide.

It does when you throw bullets at humans seeking to improve their lives in a country of extremely fat assholes..

I can't make any sense of this. What country are you talking about?

USA.

"Throwing bullets at humans seeking to improve their lives...." What are you on about? And what does being "extremely fat" have to do with ANY of that? (And no, I'm not fat, and would put my BMI up to yours if you doubt me. Not that we have any reason to believe each other online. But liberals usually have a hang up about fat people as if it's any of their business....)

lol, that one went right over you head, didn't it.... bless your heart.

 

[John Shaw]

Some are then aborted by God. Too bad I guess.

 

[deanrd]

For Planned Parenthood to defy Him is demonic and diabolical evil.

But once the little fucker is born, then the choice is for anyone with a gun to do as they fucking please. Bang bang little fucker, you're dead.

That's the free will kicking in

uh-huh... what say you about trump signing off to get rid of the protection against the mentally ill having the right to own a gun when they can't even manage their own legal affairs? their free will is defective.

Yeah but they’ll get to own a gun. That’s all Republicans care about.

 

[playtime]

For Planned Parenthood to defy Him is demonic and diabolical evil.

But once the little fucker is born, then the choice is for anyone with a gun to do as they fucking please. Bang bang little fucker, you're dead.

That's the free will kicking in

uh-huh... what say you about trump signing off to get rid of the protection against the mentally ill having the right to own a gun when they can't even manage their own legal affairs? their free will is defective.

Yeah but they’ll get to own a gun. That’s all Republicans care about.

they claim to have a good PR guy...