Exposing the lies about taxes

[WinterBorn]

The pity party for the leisure classes that right wingers throw every April is so tiresome.

The overpaid and leisure classes could easily afford to pay Nordic levels of taxation and still live very comfy lives, which for some reason is really important to conservatives of all classes.

So since they COULD pay that much and still live a lifestyle that you claim is comfy, they should have that much taken from them by force?

In essence, the goal is that we all have the same level of creature comforts. Except some will be busting their asses, making good choices, and risking much to get theirs, and some will be sitting on their asses to have it handed to them, whether they make poor choices or not?

Interesting ideology there.

 

[bripat9643]

The pity party for the leisure classes that right wingers throw every April is so tiresome.

The overpaid and leisure classes could easily afford to pay Nordic levels of taxation and still live very comfy lives, which for some reason is really important to conservatives of all classes.

I don't give a damn about the lifestyles of the people you call "the leisure class." What I care about is growing the economy. Taxing money away from people who invest it so we can send it to Washington and provide cell phones for ticks on the ass of society is not good government policy. High taxes help no one but the parasite class, and in the long run it doesn't even help them.

 

[bripat9643]

Once again we see the parasite class is not paying their fair share while the upper class in this nation are burdened with paying damn near everything.

The bottom 50% earns 12% of the wealth but pays just 2% of the taxes. Meanwhile the top 1% earns 19% of the wealth but pays 37% of the taxes.

Would you care to tell us which of those groups you fall into?

Would you care to tell us why that matters?

If you fall into the top bracket, then he'll tell you that your post is self-serving, that you're just trying to feather your own nest. If you fall into any of the other categories, he'll tell you that you're a loser.

 

[NYcarbineer]

It's not the amount it's the disproportionate percentage.

It's only in the top ten percent if you look at that chart and the only remedy would be to cut taxes for those ten percent and raise everyone else's,

including yours I'm guessing.

Another false narrative. There is a MUCH better "remedy". It's called STOP spending!!!

Revenues to the federal government are as high as they have ever been. We have a spending problem. The Dumbocrats spend like drunken sailors (because they try to buy votes).

It's time to stop the SNAP bullshit, and the welfare bullshit, and the Medicaid bullshit, and all of the other give the people free stuff so they will vote for us Dumbocrat bullshit.

Ah yes, increase the gap between rich and poor, make the poor poorer and the rich richer.

As I have said many many times, that is the main goal of conservative domestic policy.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Once again we see the parasite class is not paying their fair share while the upper class in this nation are burdened with paying damn near everything.

The bottom 50% earns 12% of the wealth but pays just 2% of the taxes. Meanwhile the top 1% earns 19% of the wealth but pays 37% of the taxes.

Would you care to tell us which of those groups you fall into?

Would you care to tell us why that matters?

It matters because you're probably not in the top ten percent and therefore you probably are not paying disproportionately, relatively, high taxes.

 

[bripat9643]

It's only in the top ten percent if you look at that chart and the only remedy would be to cut taxes for those ten percent and raise everyone else's,

including yours I'm guessing.

Another false narrative. There is a MUCH better "remedy". It's called STOP spending!!!

Revenues to the federal government are as high as they have ever been. We have a spending problem. The Dumbocrats spend like drunken sailors (because they try to buy votes).

It's time to stop the SNAP bullshit, and the welfare bullshit, and the Medicaid bullshit, and all of the other give the people free stuff so they will vote for us Dumbocrat bullshit.

Ah yes, increase the gap between rich and poor, make the poor poorer and the rich richer.

As I have said many many times, that is the main goal of conservative domestic policy.

Raising taxes makes everyone poorer, numskull.

 

[Londoner]

The bottom use to make higher wages/benefits - and they use to pay a lot more taxes.

But starting in 1980 - in response to the stagflation of the late 70s - our politicians decided that the owners of Capital required lower labor costs in order to jumpstart investment and resurrect the economic growth of the postwar years. So we aggressively shrank unionization and liberalized trade so that our capitalists could take advantage of cheap foreign labor. After 30 years or lowering labor costs, the average wage at the bottom went from over 20$/hr to less than $10.

The GM Job model - with high wages, great benefits and a substantial tax burden - has been replaced by the Walmart job model where workers make less than 20K/yr and have little to zero benefits, and no surplus to tax. Meanwhile, pay at the top has exploded, with the owners of Capital realizing all the gains from cutting labor costs. So now you have the Walton's making 8 billion, while their workers barely make enough to pay rent.

In other words, if you're going to give your working class sub-poverty wages and make them compete with sweatshop-nations for jobs, than those very same workers are not going to be a revenue source. You can't squeeze water from a stone.

Meaning: if you make all the surplus, than you will pay most of the taxes.

Or so we thought, right? Reagan lowered taxes on the wealthy while at the same time passing labor and trade policies which vastly increased their share of the pie. This lead to our ever increasing structural deficits, which are used as a justification to further cut services to the working poor, thus making it even harder for them to pay taxes. But it gets worse. With the reduction of capital gains taxes to far less than the tax on income, many wealthy folks end up paying a lower rate than the non-wealthy.

Your tax chart is exactly what you'd expect to see if we lived in a world of such vast wealth disparity, protected by government policy, molded by lobbying pressure. Reagan's dream of cheap labor for corporations has produced a class of American serfs who can't survive without government assistance. And now you want these people to pay taxes with money they don't have so you can further lower the rates of folks who make all the money?

Why not give the worker more skin in the game? Maybe we should restore livable wages by preventing our capitalists form accessing sweatshop labor in freedom-hating nations. Why should Walmart's greatest partner be Communist China? The government is always intervening in the market for the capitalist, not only with patent protection but with a whole range of anti-competitive policies. For instance, we have regulations that prevent consumers from buying ultra cheap foreign drugs (which gives our pharmaceuticals a virtual domestic monopoly and allows them to rape consumers). Why not restore some balance and have government serve all Americans rather than just the corporations and wealthy individuals who fund their elections?

The wealthy have turned Washington into a subsidy and bailout machine. Washington is where business goes to purchase monopoly control over the domestic economy. Study the 2003 Republican Drug Bill to see who owns Washington, and who Washington serves.

The trend toward ever cheaper labor has brought great wealth to our capitalists, but it vastly undercuts the ability of our newly created class of wage serfs to become a revenue source.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Social security is nothing but forced dependence on government, a fact that you sheep are too stupid to realize.

No, social security is a service that the government provides for you that allows you not to have to fuck with putting money aside, and managing it, etc., your whole working life. And they do it in a highly efficient manner.

I've been getting SS for a short time and it pays my bills. My 2 pensions pay for my fun. I am very thankful the government took that money out of every paycheck I ever earned.

If it is a "service" why am I forced into it?

Also, if the federal government is sooooo good at managing money, why are they $17 trillion in debt?

Finally, how sad is it that you're so lazy you can't put money aside for yourself and need the government to do it for you. Look at that sentence which I highlighted above. That is absolutely amazing. You consider it great that the federal government unconstitutionally forced the American people into a program "that allows you not to have to fuck with putting money aside"? Because not spending every dime you make every month is too much effort? You'd rather "not have to fuck with that"? Un-fucking-believable.

Social Security loans money to the US government, it doesn't borrow it. Social Security is a creditor, not a debtor.

You are 'forced' into it because as a citizen in a democratic republic sometimes there are more votes for what you don't like than there are for what you like.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Skull Pilot, you and millions of others want to privatize your profit and socialize the risk on the rest of us.

Not going to happen.

Wrong again.

I just want to be able to control the 15% of the money the government steals from me.

If you want to give yours to the inept crooks in DC then go ahead.

Fantasize all you want, but you won't be allowed to socialize your risk on the rest of us.

Believe me if I had control of that money you would not have to worry about me at all.

But sheep like you think a guarantee of poverty and dependence is better than independence.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Another false narrative. There is a MUCH better "remedy". It's called STOP spending!!!

Revenues to the federal government are as high as they have ever been. We have a spending problem. The Dumbocrats spend like drunken sailors (because they try to buy votes).

It's time to stop the SNAP bullshit, and the welfare bullshit, and the Medicaid bullshit, and all of the other give the people free stuff so they will vote for us Dumbocrat bullshit.

Ah yes, increase the gap between rich and poor, make the poor poorer and the rich richer.

As I have said many many times, that is the main goal of conservative domestic policy.

Raising taxes makes everyone poorer, numskull.

The rich have been getting their taxes lowered for 30+ years, and remember the argument for that?

The argument for that was that if the rich kept more of their money, that money would find its way down to the not-rich,

trickling down as they called it.

Well? Did it? Does it?

 

[bripat9643]

No, social security is a service that the government provides for you that allows you not to have to fuck with putting money aside, and managing it, etc., your whole working life. And they do it in a highly efficient manner.

I've been getting SS for a short time and it pays my bills. My 2 pensions pay for my fun. I am very thankful the government took that money out of every paycheck I ever earned.

If it is a "service" why am I forced into it?

Also, if the federal government is sooooo good at managing money, why are they $17 trillion in debt?

Finally, how sad is it that you're so lazy you can't put money aside for yourself and need the government to do it for you. Look at that sentence which I highlighted above. That is absolutely amazing. You consider it great that the federal government unconstitutionally forced the American people into a program "that allows you not to have to fuck with putting money aside"? Because not spending every dime you make every month is too much effort? You'd rather "not have to fuck with that"? Un-fucking-believable.

Social Security loans money to the US government, it doesn't borrow it. Social Security is a creditor, not a debtor..

Social Security is part of the government, so these transactions you are referring to are purely imaginary.

You are 'forced' into it because as a citizen in a democratic republic sometimes there are more votes for what you don't like than there are for what you like.

That's called "the tyranny of the majority" or "mob rule" for short. That's the main problem with democracy.

 

[WinterBorn]

No, social security is a service that the government provides for you that allows you not to have to fuck with putting money aside, and managing it, etc., your whole working life. And they do it in a highly efficient manner.

I've been getting SS for a short time and it pays my bills. My 2 pensions pay for my fun. I am very thankful the government took that money out of every paycheck I ever earned.

If it is a "service" why am I forced into it?

Also, if the federal government is sooooo good at managing money, why are they $17 trillion in debt?

Finally, how sad is it that you're so lazy you can't put money aside for yourself and need the government to do it for you. Look at that sentence which I highlighted above. That is absolutely amazing. You consider it great that the federal government unconstitutionally forced the American people into a program "that allows you not to have to fuck with putting money aside"? Because not spending every dime you make every month is too much effort? You'd rather "not have to fuck with that"? Un-fucking-believable.

Social Security loans money to the US government, it doesn't borrow it. Social Security is a creditor, not a debtor.

You are 'forced' into it because as a citizen in a democratic republic sometimes there are more votes for what you don't like than there are for what you like.

Which is why there are all sorts of IOUs in the Social Security coffers. So when the baby boomers start to retire, taxes will have to be raised to repay the loans.

They even named the debt the gov't owes the Social Security program. They call it "Social Security Trust Fund". That is a laugh!!!

The "Social Security Trust Fund" is the amount that the federal gov't owes Social Security. At the end of 2011 it was $2.7 trillion.

 

[WinterBorn]

If it is a "service" why am I forced into it?

Also, if the federal government is sooooo good at managing money, why are they $17 trillion in debt?

Finally, how sad is it that you're so lazy you can't put money aside for yourself and need the government to do it for you. Look at that sentence which I highlighted above. That is absolutely amazing. You consider it great that the federal government unconstitutionally forced the American people into a program "that allows you not to have to fuck with putting money aside"? Because not spending every dime you make every month is too much effort? You'd rather "not have to fuck with that"? Un-fucking-believable.

Social Security loans money to the US government, it doesn't borrow it. Social Security is a creditor, not a debtor..

Social Security is part of the government, so these transactions you are referring to are purely imaginary.

You are 'forced' into it because as a citizen in a democratic republic sometimes there are more votes for what you don't like than there are for what you like.

That's called "the tyranny of the majority" or "mob rule" for short. That's the main problem with democracy.

The Social Security program is completely separate from the federal budget.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Ah yes, increase the gap between rich and poor, make the poor poorer and the rich richer.

As I have said many many times, that is the main goal of conservative domestic policy.

Raising taxes makes everyone poorer, numskull.

The rich have been getting their taxes lowered for 30+ years, and remember the argument for that?

The argument for that was that if the rich kept more of their money, that money would find its way down to the not-rich,

trickling down as they called it.

Well? Did it? Does it?

No one should have to pay a higher percentage of their money to the government than another.

Tell me if you buy a gallon of gas do you not pay the same tax that a rich person does?

Why should a dollar of income be any different?

 

[Darkwind]

It's only in the top ten percent if you look at that chart and the only remedy would be to cut taxes for those ten percent and raise everyone else's,

including yours I'm guessing.

Another false narrative. There is a MUCH better "remedy". It's called STOP spending!!!

Revenues to the federal government are as high as they have ever been. We have a spending problem. The Dumbocrats spend like drunken sailors (because they try to buy votes).

It's time to stop the SNAP bullshit, and the welfare bullshit, and the Medicaid bullshit, and all of the other give the people free stuff so they will vote for us Dumbocrat bullshit.

Ah yes, increase the gap between rich and poor, make the poor poorer and the rich richer.

As I have said many many times, that is the main goal of conservative domestic policy.

When was the last time that a poor person became rich by taking the money of a rich person and giving it to government?

BTW...what programs and/or policies have the Democrats promoted or passed that helps people to get off of government assistance?

 

[Darkwind]

Ah yes, increase the gap between rich and poor, make the poor poorer and the rich richer.

As I have said many many times, that is the main goal of conservative domestic policy.

Raising taxes makes everyone poorer, numskull.

The rich have been getting their taxes lowered for 30+ years, and remember the argument for that?

The argument for that was that if the rich kept more of their money, that money would find its way down to the not-rich,

trickling down as they called it.

Well? Did it? Does it?

In fact it does. Take note of the number of businesses that have been created in the past 6 years, and then compare them to the number of businesses in any previous administration. Lower taxes allows for more investment.


Currently, the investment scheme of this administration is to pump phoney dollars, fresh off the presses, into a stock market that is now hyper-inflated.

A recipe for disaster if ever one existed.

 

[The T]

Another false narrative. There is a MUCH better "remedy". It's called STOP spending!!!

Revenues to the federal government are as high as they have ever been. We have a spending problem. The Dumbocrats spend like drunken sailors (because they try to buy votes).

It's time to stop the SNAP bullshit, and the welfare bullshit, and the Medicaid bullshit, and all of the other give the people free stuff so they will vote for us Dumbocrat bullshit.

Ah yes, increase the gap between rich and poor, make the poor poorer and the rich richer.

As I have said many many times, that is the main goal of conservative domestic policy.

When was the last time that a poor person became rich by taking the money of a rich person and giving it to government?

BTW...what programs and/or policies have the Democrats promoted or passed that helps people to get off of government assistance?

Agreed. The Statists make it hard on purpose to get off assistance...by design.

 

[Darkwind]

Ah yes, increase the gap between rich and poor, make the poor poorer and the rich richer.

As I have said many many times, that is the main goal of conservative domestic policy.

When was the last time that a poor person became rich by taking the money of a rich person and giving it to government?

BTW...what programs and/or policies have the Democrats promoted or passed that helps people to get off of government assistance?

Agreed. The Statists make it hard on purpose to get off assistance...by design.

I'm just wondering where their compassion is? After all, if caring about people is the right thing to do, why do they not create laws and policy that creates incentives for people to get their dignity back? Simply handing out money and benefits forever is no kind of caring that I would recognize.

 

[P@triot]

It's only in the top ten percent if you look at that chart and the only remedy would be to cut taxes for those ten percent and raise everyone else's,

including yours I'm guessing.

Another false narrative. There is a MUCH better "remedy". It's called STOP spending!!!

Revenues to the federal government are as high as they have ever been. We have a spending problem. The Dumbocrats spend like drunken sailors (because they try to buy votes).

It's time to stop the SNAP bullshit, and the welfare bullshit, and the Medicaid bullshit, and all of the other give the people free stuff so they will vote for us Dumbocrat bullshit.

Ah yes, increase the gap between rich and poor, make the poor poorer and the rich richer.

As I have said many many times, that is the main goal of conservative domestic policy.

Sadly, the goal of liberal policy is to place the poor in poverty, the middle class in poverty, and the wealthy in poverty, all so that everyone is dependent on the government plantation.

Conservatives want to grow the economy. Liberals want to grow power.

 

[P@triot]

Would you care to tell us which of those groups you fall into?

Would you care to tell us why that matters?

It matters because you're probably not in the top ten percent and therefore you probably are not paying disproportionately, relatively, high taxes.

So just to be clear [MENTION=18701]NYcarbineer[/MENTION], you are now admitting that the wealthy in this country are paying (and I quote) "disproportionately, relatively high taxes"? Do I have this right?