Fair taxation.

[Dad2three]

"if their wealth is sent to Belize to help stimulate their economy, it can't be working to produce taxable profits here. "

When they bring the money back, is it taxed? IS there a need of capital in the US I'm unaware of?

Yep, when they bring it back it is taxed... which is why there is currently $20 trillion in offshore US wealth.

Yes, there is a need for capital... that's why they charge interest to borrow it.

"The only thing that has shifted in the model is more and more Mondale-Carteresque policies on free market capitalism which simply don't work."

Oh you mean Carter the guy who started deregulation that Ronnie took credit for and had 9+ million private sector jobs in 4 years to Ronnie's 14 million?

LMFAOOoooo... Carter and Mondale advocated and tried to implement price caps! Deregulation? Where? When? No, Carter didn't start anything but the Carter Malaise.

I deleted the rest of your propaganda copy-n-paste because it's all been addressed before and I don't have time to go through all of it again.

STUDY: These Charts Show There's Almost No Correlation Between Tax Rates and GDP

These Charts Show There s Probably No Correlation Between Tax Rates and GDP - Business Insider


Capital Gains Tax Rates and Economic Growth (or not)

If you read the editorial page of the Wall Street Journal (or surf around the nether regions of Forbes.com), you may come to the conclusion that no aspect of tax policy is more important for economic growth than the way we tax capital gains. You’d be wrong

Capital Gains Tax Rates and Economic Growth or not - Forbes

Myth #3: Lower taxes are the best way to grow the economy.


If a Tax Rate Falls...

Will the Economy Notice?

Myth #6: If you unshackle the rich, they'll rev up the economy.

Think of this as the supermyth—the one underlying so many other fallacies. But here's a pesky fact neither corporate America nor the GOP establishment is trumpeting: After-tax corporate profits are currently at an all-time high. The problem businesses face isn't lack of cash but rather a lack of confidence that consumer demand will pick up in the future. So they're not expanding or hiring at the rate they should be.

Wall Street's Gain...

Main Street's Pain

Charts 6 Big Economic Myths Debunked Mother Jones

 

[Boss]

A lifting of all federal income on wealth brought home to the US from abroad for the purpose of creating new business or expanding existing enterprise. This would last for 10 years in conjunction with 0% corporate taxation.

For the sake of discussion let's assume I agree on having corporate taxes dropped to zero.
How do you bring the money out of the derivatives and stock-market casino ... and please considere that there are stock markets all around the world.

Now my point of view is that corporations are quite happy playing in the derivatives market and moving their money all around the stock markets around the world. So even with a zero tax, there is not that much incentive to make actual investments... Ah , yes small businesses might be helped with such a policy, but will it be enough?

Any derivatives and stock market dividends received are taxable personal income. So do you think the rich person had rather earn taxable personal income or non-taxable corporate income?

No corporate tax would be a HUGE incentive for wealthy investment. Yes, it would help many small businesses by making more venture capital money available at lower rates, but that's not the main benefit. I believe it would completely rejuvenate American manufacturing. Suddenly, there would be no real advantage for corporations to go offshore. They would want to concentrate their efforts here, where they would be paying no corporate tax.

In addition, virtually every successful major foreign company would view this as their golden opportunity to capitalize on the US market by opening up shop in the corporate tax-free US. Yes, our general labor costs are higher here than other places, but there are many advantages. An educated work force, an affluent consumer base, stability of government, etc. Plus, they avoid all the tariffs on goods they currently are exporting to us. From a global business perspective, a 0% U.S. Corporate tax would be a game changer.

 

[Boss]

"Yep, when they bring it back it is taxed... which is why there is currently $20 trillion in offshore US wealth."

You do realize ONLY Corps can hide money offshore and not pay taxes on it? YOU want amnesty for the lawbreakers?

You're too stupid for me to have a conversation with this morning. I lack the patience.

There is no lawbreaking, so no need for amnesty. Anyone can move money to a foreign country and avoid US taxation. Plain and simple, it is out of the jurisdiction of the IRS.

What I advocate is removing the incentive for moving wealth abroad and give an incentive to bring it back home and use it to create new jobs. A $20 trillion private sector stimulus plan that wouldn't cost us a dime.

 

[Dad2three]

A lifting of all federal income on wealth brought home to the US from abroad for the purpose of creating new business or expanding existing enterprise. This would last for 10 years in conjunction with 0% corporate taxation.

For the sake of discussion let's assume I agree on having corporate taxes dropped to zero.
How do you bring the money out of the derivatives and stock-market casino ... and please considere that there are stock markets all around the world.

Now my point of view is that corporations are quite happy playing in the derivatives market and moving their money all around the stock markets around the world. So even with a zero tax, there is not that much incentive to make actual investments... Ah , yes small businesses might be helped with such a policy, but will it be enough?

Any derivatives and stock market dividends received are taxable personal income. So do you think the rich person had rather earn taxable personal income or non-taxable corporate income?

No corporate tax would be a HUGE incentive for wealthy investment. Yes, it would help many small businesses by making more venture capital money available at lower rates, but that's not the main benefit. I believe it would completely rejuvenate American manufacturing. Suddenly, there would be no real advantage for corporations to go offshore. They would want to concentrate their efforts here, where they would be paying no corporate tax.

In addition, virtually every successful major foreign company would view this as their golden opportunity to capitalize on the US market by opening up shop in the corporate tax-free US. Yes, our general labor costs are higher here than other places, but there are many advantages. An educated work force, an affluent consumer base, stability of government, etc. Plus, they avoid all the tariffs on goods they currently are exporting to us. From a global business perspective, a 0% U.S. Corporate tax would be a game changer.

YOUR premise is there is $2o trillion sitting offshore, ONLY $2 trillion of that is Corpos. ONCE AGAIN, ANY INCOME OFFSHORE IS SUPPOSED TO BE REPORTED TO THE IRS. If it';s NOW tax free, why move it back?

AGAIN

Is the US lacking capital? lol

CORPS GO OFFSHORE FOR LABOR COSTS (and to create more profit for owner/top exec's, who pay record lowest sustained effective tax burdens on their incomes!)

HONESTY try it



Myth #6: If you unshackle the rich, they'll rev up the economy.

Think of this as the supermyth—the one underlying so many other fallacies. But here's a pesky fact neither corporate America nor the GOP establishment is trumpeting: After-tax corporate profits are currently at an all-time high. The problem businesses face isn't lack of cash but rather a lack of confidence that consumer demand will pick up in the future. So they're not expanding or hiring at the rate they should be.

Wall Street's Gain...

Main Street's Pain

Charts 6 Big Economic Myths Debunked Mother Jones

 

[Dad2three]

A lifting of all federal income on wealth brought home to the US from abroad for the purpose of creating new business or expanding existing enterprise. This would last for 10 years in conjunction with 0% corporate taxation.

For the sake of discussion let's assume I agree on having corporate taxes dropped to zero.
How do you bring the money out of the derivatives and stock-market casino ... and please considere that there are stock markets all around the world.

Now my point of view is that corporations are quite happy playing in the derivatives market and moving their money all around the stock markets around the world. So even with a zero tax, there is not that much incentive to make actual investments... Ah , yes small businesses might be helped with such a policy, but will it be enough?

Any derivatives and stock market dividends received are taxable personal income. So do you think the rich person had rather earn taxable personal income or non-taxable corporate income?

No corporate tax would be a HUGE incentive for wealthy investment. Yes, it would help many small businesses by making more venture capital money available at lower rates, but that's not the main benefit. I believe it would completely rejuvenate American manufacturing. Suddenly, there would be no real advantage for corporations to go offshore. They would want to concentrate their efforts here, where they would be paying no corporate tax.

In addition, virtually every successful major foreign company would view this as their golden opportunity to capitalize on the US market by opening up shop in the corporate tax-free US. Yes, our general labor costs are higher here than other places, but there are many advantages. An educated work force, an affluent consumer base, stability of government, etc. Plus, they avoid all the tariffs on goods they currently are exporting to us. From a global business perspective, a 0% U.S. Corporate tax would be a game changer.

"Any derivatives and stock market dividends received are taxable personal income. So do you think the rich person had rather earn taxable personal income or non-taxable corporate income?"



The Top 0.1% Of The Nation Earn Half Of All Capital Gains

Capital gains are the key ingredient of income disparity in the US– and the force behind the winner takes all mantra of our economic system. If you want even out earning power in the U.S, you have to raise the 15% capital gains tax.

Income and wealth disparities become even more absurd if we look at the top 0.1% of the nation’s earners– rather than the more common 1%. The top 0.1%– about 315,000 individuals out of 315 million– are making about half of all capital gains on the sale of shares or property after 1 year; and these capital gains make up 60% of the income made by the Forbes 400.

The Top 0.1 Of The Nation Earn Half Of All Capital Gains - Forbes

 

[Dad2three]

"Yep, when they bring it back it is taxed... which is why there is currently $20 trillion in offshore US wealth."

You do realize ONLY Corps can hide money offshore and not pay taxes on it? YOU want amnesty for the lawbreakers?

You're too stupid for me to have a conversation with this morning. I lack the patience.

There is no lawbreaking, so no need for amnesty. Anyone can move money to a foreign country and avoid US taxation. Plain and simple, it is out of the jurisdiction of the IRS.

What I advocate is removing the incentive for moving wealth abroad and give an incentive to bring it back home and use it to create new jobs. A $20 trillion private sector stimulus plan that wouldn't cost us a dime.

Gawd, you are stupid AND dishonest. NO you can't just 'move money', IF you're a US citizen, you owe US taxes on ANY income created ANYWHERE

ONE policy conservatives have EVER been on the correct side of history on? lol

ONCE MORE, IS THE US LACKING CAPITAL? PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTION. NO THEY ARE NOT. SINCE THEY ARE NOT, WHY WOULD THEY NEED TO LOWER OR GET RID OF TAXES ON THE MONEY? lol

 

[Dad2three]

"Yep, when they bring it back it is taxed... which is why there is currently $20 trillion in offshore US wealth."

You do realize ONLY Corps can hide money offshore and not pay taxes on it? YOU want amnesty for the lawbreakers?

You're too stupid for me to have a conversation with this morning. I lack the patience.

There is no lawbreaking, so no need for amnesty. Anyone can move money to a foreign country and avoid US taxation. Plain and simple, it is out of the jurisdiction of the IRS.

What I advocate is removing the incentive for moving wealth abroad and give an incentive to bring it back home and use it to create new jobs. A $20 trillion private sector stimulus plan that wouldn't cost us a dime.

"There is no lawbreaking, so no need for amnesty. Anyone can move money to a foreign country and avoid US taxation. Plain and simple, it is out of the jurisdiction of the IRS."


The federal government's campaign to track down money held by U.S. taxpayers in foreign countries shifts into high gear July 1


...Unlike most other nations, the U.S. taxes citizens, green-card holders and residents on income earned anywhere in the world. (There is partial relief from double taxation.) It also imposes complex reporting requirements that come with severe potential penalties for those who fail to comply.
Offshore Accounts What to Do Now - WSJ

 

[Boss]

Myth #6: If you unshackle the rich, they'll rev up the economy.

Hey moron? You think you've got the rich shackled? LMFAOooooo!

The number of billionaires has doubled since 2006. Regardless of a good or bad economy, the rich are going to make money because that's what they do best. You can try to use government to take their money but they will always be two steps ahead of you in finding a new way to make money that you can't get to... again, because it's what they do best. You can't close all the loopholes, it doesn't matter what you do, the rich will still keep getting richer.

Personally, I would rather the people get some of the benefits of rich people becoming richer as opposed to driving their wealth to some foreign country who is happy to see it. I would rather it be used to create American jobs and hire American employees. I'd rather have their wealth circulating in the economy as opposed to being locked away in tax-free bonds.

 

[Boss]

"Yep, when they bring it back it is taxed... which is why there is currently $20 trillion in offshore US wealth."

You do realize ONLY Corps can hide money offshore and not pay taxes on it? YOU want amnesty for the lawbreakers?

You're too stupid for me to have a conversation with this morning. I lack the patience.

There is no lawbreaking, so no need for amnesty. Anyone can move money to a foreign country and avoid US taxation. Plain and simple, it is out of the jurisdiction of the IRS.

What I advocate is removing the incentive for moving wealth abroad and give an incentive to bring it back home and use it to create new jobs. A $20 trillion private sector stimulus plan that wouldn't cost us a dime.

Gawd, you are stupid AND dishonest. NO you can't just 'move money', IF you're a US citizen, you owe US taxes on ANY income created ANYWHERE

ONE policy conservatives have EVER been on the correct side of history on? lol

ONCE MORE, IS THE US LACKING CAPITAL? PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTION. NO THEY ARE NOT. SINCE THEY ARE NOT, WHY WOULD THEY NEED TO LOWER OR GET RID OF TAXES ON THE MONEY? lol

IF you're a US citizen, you owe US taxes on ANY income created ANYWHERE

WRONG! Only income you receive in the US is subject to US income tax. You can make all the money you like in a foreign country, as long as you don't bring it here it can't be taxed here. The foreign country can tax it, and some do. You need to review your tax laws.

And I did answer your question. Capital is always in demand, that's why they charge interest on venture capital loans. The more capital available, the less that interest becomes and the easier it becomes to acquire such a loan.

 

[Boss]

...Unlike most other nations, the U.S. taxes citizens, green-card holders and residents on income earned anywhere in the world.

Income earned is income you reported earning for the year. This means you received this income. If your money remained invested in whatever foreign investments you have, it has not been received and is not reported as earned income. Income is not Wealth.

 

[CultureCitizen]

Any derivatives and stock market dividends received are taxable personal income. So do you think the rich person had rather earn taxable personal income or non-taxable corporate income?

No corporate tax would be a HUGE incentive for wealthy investment. Yes, it would help many small businesses by making more venture capital money available at lower rates, but that's not the main benefit. I believe it would completely rejuvenate American manufacturing. Suddenly, there would be no real advantage for corporations to go offshore. They would want to concentrate their efforts here, where they would be paying no corporate tax.

In addition, virtually every successful major foreign company would view this as their golden opportunity to capitalize on the US market by opening up shop in the corporate tax-free US. Yes, our general labor costs are higher here than other places, but there are many advantages. An educated work force, an affluent consumer base, stability of government, etc. Plus, they avoid all the tariffs on goods they currently are exporting to us. From a global business perspective, a 0% U.S. Corporate tax would be a game changer.

That depends on the returns of the investments. If moving around the money in the stocks yields a 50% gain vs a local investment that yields 15%, its a no-brainner.

I work in a small company, and I can certainly appreciate how such measure could beneffit small companies that want to expand. I am not certain such a measure will attract investments from large corporations.

Fortunately there is a way to test your theory in small scale. A special economic zone could be created. Companies that employ certain amount of local people from the zone could get tax exemption. It could be an option to promote development in zones which are completely depressed like Detroit or Cleveland ( Detroit is a really tough case though).

If this works in small scale I would have no objection on applying it on a larger scale.
Any caveats you can think of to applying this on a small scale ?

 

[Boss]

Fortunately there is a way to test your theory in small scale. A special economic zone could be created. Companies that employ certain amount of local people from the zone could get tax exemption. It could be an option to promote development in zones which are completely depressed like Detroit or Cleveland ( Detroit is a really tough case though).

If this works in small scale I would have no objection on applying it on a larger scale.
Any caveats you can think of to applying this on a small scale ?

The problem is the politics of this idea. What representative is going to vote to send all the jobs to Detroit, other than the politicians from that district and state? In general, I don't have a problem with viable economic development programs for depressed areas, but I think that should be a completely different matter from this.

Remember, the idea here is to return money from overseas and have it invested in new business here. The more stipulations and caveats you apply, the less results you can expect. When you start applying these caveats, the opposition simply loads legislation down with so many that the bill becomes a joke. Here, Mr. Rich Guy, take your money out of securities where you are guaranteed a decent return and invest it in a slum where you'll probably lose all your money in short order, and we'll be nice enough not to charge you any taxes!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

DON'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE ON TAX RATES VERSUS EFFECTIVE RATES ACTUALLY PAID? US IS ONLY BEATEN BY CHILE AND MEXICO IN THE DEVELOPED WORLD

Most importantly , USA is at very top in pushing corporations, jobs, and investment capital off shore with taxes that collects little revenue but do provide incentives to move off shore.

It is pure liberal stupidity. We have the tax only to pander to the pure ignorance of marxist liberals who are brainwashed to imagine they need to punish corportions.

More right wing nonsense. Shocking that it comes from you, lol

Neo-Liberalism/Conservatives is/has destroyed the American Economy in favor of the so called "Job Creator"... In reality are "Job Exporters"...

The Republican sham of lower taxes and less regulation doesn't help anyone but the richest Americans and Big Business and kill jobs and opportunity for almost everyone, especially in the middle class and poor.


The jobs lost in the recession were lost BECAUSE of Republican Policies, lies and fallacies- Can we say Trickle Down (Voodoo!) Economics? Hell, even Dubya's Dad knew that stuff was, uh, Bunk!

Now they want you to believe them when they claim they know what's best for the rest of us?

too stupid!! the liberal cant respond to the post so changes the subject hoping no one will notice his ignorance!!

Most importantly , USA is at very top in terms of pushing corporations, jobs, and investment capital off shore with the highest tax rate in the world that, after off shore deductions, collects little revenue but does provide great incentive to move off shore.

It is pure liberal stupidity. We have the tax only to pander to the pure ignorance of marxist liberals who are brainwashed to imagine they need to punish corportions and make them pay their fair share while having no clue whatsoever that any tax they do pay is merely passed on to consumers in the form of higher prices like any cost would be.

 

[CultureCitizen]

Fortunately there is a way to test your theory in small scale. A special economic zone could be created. Companies that employ certain amount of local people from the zone could get tax exemption. It could be an option to promote development in zones which are completely depressed like Detroit or Cleveland ( Detroit is a really tough case though).

If this works in small scale I would have no objection on applying it on a larger scale.
Any caveats you can think of to applying this on a small scale ?

The problem is the politics of this idea. What representative is going to vote to send all the jobs to Detroit, other than the politicians from that district and state? In general, I don't have a problem with viable economic development programs for depressed areas, but I think that should be a completely different matter from this.

Remember, the idea here is to return money from overseas and have it invested in new business here. The more stipulations and caveats you apply, the less results you can expect. When you start applying these caveats, the opposition simply loads legislation down with so many that the bill becomes a joke. Here, Mr. Rich Guy, take your money out of securities where you are guaranteed a decent return and invest it in a slum where you'll probably lose all your money in short order, and we'll be nice enough not to charge you any taxes!

As I said, Detroit might be a tough area, but any zone could be picked up, preferably one with nice infrastructure.
Every policy has its risks, testing on a small scale is better than just applying the policy without any testing.
In this case the greatest risk I can see is how do you actually proove there is a real company in the area and not just an empty corporate office ( that's actually what luxembug does to draw corporate office allowing them lower tax rates).

China actually used this strategy

Special Economic Zones of the People s Republic of China - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Fortunately there is a way to test your theory in small scale.

dear, its been tests 1000 times before. Ireland dropped its rate to 11% and half the world's major corporations moved their in whole or in part.

 

[Boss]

As I said, Detroit might be a tough area, but any zone could be picked up, preferably one with nice infrastructure.
Every policy has its risks, testing on a small scale is better than just applying the policy without any testing.
In this case the greatest risk I can see is how do you actually proove there is a real company in the area and not just an empty corporate office ( that's actually what luxembug does to draw corporate office allowing them lower tax rates).

China actually used this strategy

Special Economic Zones of the People s Republic of China - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

There is no risk to this policy, it is a guaranteed winner. I don't understand your "great risk" concern at all, it makes no sense. If there are no corporate taxes, what are you afraid of people trying to avoid? Empty corporate office? So what? Is there some advantage to that?

I don't know what Luxemborg or China are doing, I don't really care. Those are not free market capitalist countries with a free enterprise system and constitutional government, so it doesn't mean dog farts to me. 95% of the information and statistics coming out of China are simple propaganda put out by their communist government and don't mean anything. Those places have Ministers of Propaganda and that is their job, to churn out false statistics and fairy tales about how 'glorious' their regime is performing. It's amazing to me how many liberal goofs just lap that shit up like it's the Gospel spoken by Moses or something because it was posted on some blog.

 

[CultureCitizen]

I don't know what Luxemborg or China are doing, I don't really care. Those are not free market capitalist countries with a free enterprise system and constitutional government, so it doesn't mean dog farts to me. 95% of the information and statistics coming out of China are simple propaganda put out by their communist government and don't mean anything. Those places have Ministers of Propaganda and that is their job, to churn out false statistics and fairy tales about how 'glorious' their regime is performing. It's amazing to me how many liberal goofs just lap that shit up like it's the Gospel spoken by Moses or something because it was posted on some blog

I usually admit a good argument followed by a good link or set of links. The theory sounds ok, but with a global economy and a global stock market the rules have changed a lot.

 

[Boss]

As I said, Detroit might be a tough area, but any zone could be picked up, preferably one with nice infrastructure.

How about instead of having government and politicians meddle around and pick winners and losers, we just say... Here, it's YOUR money, YOU decide where to spend it... all we ask is that you spend it on expansion or new enterprise which will create new jobs?

What would this cost us? Nothing. What's the down side? There isn't one.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The theory sounds ok, but with a global economy and a global stock market the rules have changed a lot.

nothing has changed at all. Now we have globalization so capitalism is more important than ever to organize it all. Also, tax rates now have to be competitive now so hopefully this will make govt more efficient.

 

[Boss]

I usually admit a good argument followed by a good link or set of links. The theory sounds ok, but with a global economy and a global stock market the rules have changed a lot.

Well all I am saying is, if you are trusting links to stories about how great things are going in China, you are reading pure commie propaganda. They do not have a free market capitalist private sector system by any stretch of any imagination. Every lucrative aspect to the Chinese economy is controlled by the ruling elite.

Okay, a global economy and market... What do you suppose happens to them when the US declares 0% corporate taxation and a moratorium on taxation for repatriated wealth? The largest consumer-driven base in the world is offering 0% tax on corporations.... think about that. Let that idea soak in a minute... what do you think will happen to the value of US stock? What happens to the value of the dollar? The term "kicks ass" comes to mind.